Game of Thrones Season 8

[nelsonmuntz]

Why did Euron and Jaime fight? Not clear about that.

 

[navery12]

Why did Euron and Jaime fight? Not clear about that.

Euron had served his purpose in reducing the dragons to 1 and they had no use for him anymore. In other words, who knows

 

[Excalibur]

Ever since they outran the books they took tons of shortcuts IMO. I like the fact that I don't have to wait another 18 seasons to figure out how it ends, but I'm also irritated because I think the show is far worse than it could have been with more care / forethought. Still entertained, but at this stage glad it is ending.

The shortcuts started in season 7, IMO, almost a full two seasons after they outran most of the book content. Some of the deviations from the book in seasons 4 and 5, as well as some of the earlier "original" content (Hardhome and the final episode of season 6, for example) made for great television.

 

[Excalibur]

Why did Euron and Jaime fight? Not clear about that.

I guess he knew the battle was lost and wanted to off his competition, but that was one of the dumber ideas in this episode.

 

[businesslawyer]

Really? She’s been a complete psycho since season 6. It’s all about her and her perceived birthright. It wasn’t before then, it was about the people. Then it became “my throne”, “my kingdoms”, “bend the knee”. She’s been off her rocker for awhile now. That said, this still didn’t feel quite right. The extent of it was wrong.

Varys knew and Jon confirmed it. Nobody who wants to rule can be a good ruler.

The problem with our country in a nutshell. To be President of the United States, you have to not care about what your seeking the office will do to your family and friends (unless, of course, you're doing it for financial gain). So truly good people won't go near it, leaving only those who are less good to compete.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I guess he knew the battle was lost and wanted to off his competition, but that was one of the dumber ideas in this episode.

Euron was definitely the kind of guy that would bolt when the battle was lost. I could see having some kind of final verbal exchange between Euron and Jaime, but having them fight to the death made no sense at all.

 

[businesslawyer]

Why did Euron and Jaime fight? Not clear about that.

I don't get the confusion. Macho males don't get into fights over attractive blondes that they're both sleeping with?

 

[navery12]

I don't get the confusion. Macho males don't get into fights over attractive blondes that they're both sleeping with?

Euron and Jamie fighting made sense in theory, they were both being told by Cersei they were the father of her child. But that was never brought up between them

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Euron and Jamie fighting made sense in theory, they were both being told by Cersei they were the father of her child. But that was never brought up between them

The Euron character is a soulless mercenary. He points out the city is dying, talks a little trash at Jaime, and then gets into a fight to the death. When he pointed out the city was dying, that was his queue to hit the waves. The fight was one step above having Euron step into an empty elevator shaft.

 

[intlzncster]

The Euron character is a soulless mercenary. He points out the city is dying, talks a little trash at Jaime, and then gets into a fight to the death. When he pointed out the city was dying, that was his queue to hit the waves. The fight was one step above having Euron step into an empty elevator shaft.

While not wrong, he also had a bit of madman in him. Seemed to have a bug about the King Slayer on several occasions throughout the series.

And he would always press an advantage. I'm willing to bet he didn't think one armed Jaime would be able to put up much of a fight. Using your analogy, it was seeing Jaime Lannister standing in front of an elevator shaft, going for the push, and simply missing. 'Saving' cersei would gain another Lannister debt on top.

He wasn't just a soulless mercenary either, or he wouldn't have bothered to take over the Iron Islands and maneuver himself into position as the King to cersei's Queen. He too was playing the game.

And even outside of the throne, there are still advantages to having a Lannister heir as well.

 

[Horatio]

It was stored up wildfire. The Mad King stashed it in a bunch of random buildings throughout the city; they talked about that a few seasons ago.

And in that scene where Qyburn was telling Cersei it was time to run, she kept trying to come up with ways they would still win ("our scorpions will shoot down her dragon") and Qyburn told her they were all destroyed, you could tell by the look on her face that she knew they were done. She even let out a single tear. Why would she do that if their big plan was to set off a bunch of wildfire to destroy her enemies? And even if that was their plan, it wasn't a very good one since it didn't do a damn thing to stop Dany or Drogon.

Why did Euron and Jaime fight? Not clear about that.

Fair points but I viewed the explosives as a way Cersei could have the last laugh if she had to surrender and lost it all. Kinda like a “ over my dead body” plan. She’s taken that sinister approach before and I’m sure Dany knew about it.

 

[UofCT]

1 prediction given what the show has given us so far is Bronn saving Tyrions life with the cross-bow: This has to happen right? Tyrion is all Bronn has left!

 

[Walker11]

Why did Euron and Jaime fight? Not clear about that.

Euron was blasted off his ship by Drogon and swam to shore. It was just a coincidence he ran into Jaime on the coast of a city of 500,000.

 

[Horatio]

1 prediction given what the show has given us so far is Bronn saving Tyrions life with the cross-bow: This has to happen right? Tyrion is all Bronn has left!

Yep. And who does he kill to save Tyrion and why would he have to save Tyrion? I was thinking the same thing.

 

[Horatio]

Euron was blasted off his ship by Drogon and swam to shore. It was just a coincidence he ran into Jaime on the coast of a city of 500,000.

He probably should’ve been too exhausted to fight Jamie anyway. Didn’t make since.

 

[SubbaBub]

Really? She’s been a complete psycho since season 6. It’s all about her and her perceived birthright. It wasn’t before then, it was about the people. Then it became “my throne”, “my kingdoms”, “bend the knee”. She’s been off her rocker for awhile now. That said, this still didn’t feel quite right. The extent of it was wrong.

Varys knew and Jon confirmed it. Nobody who wants to rule can be a good ruler.

I think the problem people are having is with what triggered her. They won the city and she was perched on a wall when all of a sudden she goes nuts. It would have been much better if the Missandei execution happened during the battle sequence. It would make her freakout more connected to her state of mind at the time. Or if she was killed off screen and Dany saw her head on a pike or something similar while flying over the city.

She was always going to go mad queen as they kept telling us.

 

[intlzncster]

I think the problem people are having is with what triggered her. They won the city and she was perched on a wall when all of a sudden she goes nuts. It would have been much better if the Missandei execution happened during the battle sequence. It would make her freakout more connected to her state of mind at the time. Or if she was killed off screen and Dany saw her head on a pike or something similar while flying over the city.

She was always going to go mad queen as they kept telling us.

Something like this was done, just not very obvious. They showed her tension building, then right at the end she looks, and the camera focused directly in on the Red Keep. She stares, and you can imagine her becoming enraged thinking of cersei up there. She then sets her mouth and begins destroying.

I think she once she started burning the defenses, the bloodlust was too strong.

 

[navery12]

Something like this was done, just not very obvious. They showed her tension building, then right at the end she looks, and the camera focused directly in on the Red Keep. She stares, and you can imagine her becoming enraged thinking of cersei up there. She then sets her mouth and begins destroying.

I think she once she started burning the defenses, the bloodlust was too strong.

There was also the scene with Jon where she was talking about ruling with love or fear and ended with her saying, Ok then, let it be fear. Certainly seemed to imply the thought was on her mind

 

[ZooCougar]

Take down the Red Keep, destroy Cersei, and Dany gets celebrated as the hero that “broke the wheel”. The people would love her, which was her whole concern anyway. So I get that there were plenty of signs along the way, but in that moment... she had another way to get what she says she wanted. Instead she had a sad and went on a killing spree.

This is what I don’t get. She basically won, why did she run up the score?

 

[nelsonmuntz]

This is what I don’t get. She basically won, why did she run up the score?

They are all killers. She is no better than the Lannisters when they sacked Kings Landing, which was their original sin. She is actually much worse.

 

[Scalito]

What exactly were you looking for?

Dany burned the crap out of something every single season of the series. Her first instinct was always to burn something. She used ’honorable intentions' to justify her methods in her mind. even when the methods weren't always honorable. At some point burning people becomes de rigeur.

People held her back from it at every turn. To her credit, she did listen sometimes. Until she didn't. When she was held back or changed course from her first instinct,it often blew up in her face. Especially in westeros. She'd been betrayed in some form or fashion by a lot of people (Jon, Tyrion, varys,Jaime, jorah, cersei etc) I guess she had enough.

Throughout the series, I got the feel that she wanted to be good,to do good, but only if it didn't hinder her from taking the throne. People oftened questioned her character behind her back.

Westeros not being what she thought it was, and her no longer being the rightful heir (a problem compounded by the Jon denial) were probably her two biggest drivers in her full metamorphosis. The issue there is that the reveal occurred too late in the story.

The final 2 seasons should have been 10 episodes each and it could have been done more smoothly.

I wanted something believable. You don't go from Selfless Savoir of the World to Beelzebub because you are sads your friend die. Not in a flash. That is just dumb writing you would acknowledge as such if you weren't invested in this crap storm after 8 years of fandom.

 

[ZooCougar]

They are all killers. She is no better than the Lannisters when they sacked Kings Landing, which was their original sin. She is actually much worse.

She is about the same only with a much more powerful weapon. The world will be a better place without the Lannisters.

 

[ZooCougar]

I wanted something believable. You don't go from Selfless Savoir of the World to Beelzebub because you are sads your friend die. Not in a flash. That is just dumb writing you would acknowledge as such if you weren't invested in this crap storm after 8 years of fandom.

I think she went dark two seasons ago. People just haven’t been looking at it objectively.

 

[Scalito]

I think she went dark two seasons ago. People just haven’t been looking at it objectively.

No, you're finding retroactive excuses that do not outweigh the totality of the character development and storylines. The show writers had two queens. One refused to set aside personal goals for mankind and the other sacrificed her ambitions to save others. They made it clear who the good queen was and who the bad queen was. It wasn't tinctured with grey. Then, after losing nearly all, the Savoir is Villian.

That is piss poor writing. Make her evil, you could do it. But it wasn't done beforehand and it wasn't adequately done in the space of one episode between saving the world and slaughtering people who'd already surrendered. The scrunchie-face, I-am-mad-because-Jon-won't-screw-me look doesn't suffice for hero-to-villian character development.

The show is trash.

 

[Horatio]

After 24 hours to contemplate, & after a partial re-watch last night, here's my take on the destruction of King's landing: It was the calculated put the fear of God moment into Cersei by Danaerys.
Fact: The Mad King had deposited stores of Wildfire beneath every important building.
Fact: Cersei had asked HER Hand if the rumors were true before ultimately blowing up the Cathedral of the Seven Gods with wildfire. If the stores were widely rumored, then Dany had to know about them due to her lineage, & the fact that Cersei had demonstrated their existence.
By taking the thermonuclear approach to Kings Landing she accomplished the following:
1. She destroyed those munitions so that they couldn't be used against her in the future
2. She checkmated Cersei:
Cersei wasn't afraid to use wildfire, as she had blown away her enemies with it in the past. She didn't care about the citizenry, she only used them as a shield. Her fatal error was not taking Dany's determination into account. She thought that Dany would spare the common folk if her armies surrendered, OR she would blow up Dany's forces & sack the City herself with wildfire to win the battle. She also erroneously thought that her batteries of Scorpions would take out Drogon.
Danaerys's statement in effect: You've opposed me on every occasion: You refused to join the fray against the White Walkers, & instead fortified yourself with the mercenaries of the Iron Bank. You
refused my surrender terms & invited this battle by slaughtering Missandei in front of me, thus inviting my death sentence upon you. I've destroyed your troops, your weapons, now I'm going to destroy you!
Danaerys has been consistent: You bend the knee to her or you die. If you break your oath to her, you die.
The only problem is that she has backed herself into a corner with this approach. Kings Landing can be rebuilt. The public trust is another matter.

Thank you. Dany simply did not trust a smooth, uneventful surrender by Cersei and her team. People forget that Cersei and Qyburn used the common children of the city to carry out the destruction of the citadel. I’m Sure Dany was aware of this.