Game of Thrones Season 8

[intlzncster]

I wanted something believable. You don't go from Selfless Savoir of the World to Beelzebub because you are sads your friend die. Not in a flash. That is just dumb writing you would acknowledge as such if you weren't invested in this crap storm after 8 years of fandom.

Sure if you ignore the the 50 odd plot points or counter examples to the contrary over the course of the series. Many mentioned in this thread. Reality is, she hasn't been the selfless savior for a while now.

Ultimately, unlike most viewers, she didn't view all those people as innocents, despite Tyrion's protestations to the contrary. She saw a continent of people who didn't bend the knee, and as such, should burn.

I thought a lot of things could have been done better the last two seasons. Was ithe attack abrupt? Sure. It felt rushed in the moment like practally every other plot device they've employed lately. They could have written that particular moment more cleanly.

But to say she went from good to bad in an instant (or that it was simply because her handmaiden was killed) is disingenuous. It's been happening for a while now.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Harry Strickland and the Golden Company went out like punks. Thanks for playing.

 

[Horatio]

No, you're finding retroactive excuses that do not outweigh the totality of the character development and storylines. The show writers had two queens. One refused to set aside personal goals for mankind and the other sacrificed her ambitions to save others. They made it clear who the good queen was and who the bad queen was. It wasn't tinctured with grey. Then, after losing nearly all, the Savoir is Villian.

That is piss poor writing. Make her evil, you could do it. But it wasn't done beforehand and it wasn't adequately done in the space of one episode between saving the world and slaughtering people who'd already surrendered. The scrunchie-face, I-am-mad-because-Jon-won't-screw-me look doesn't suffice for hero-to-villian character development.

The show is trash.

So True. They ruined the show by shoving everything into 6 final episodes. It became a Marvel movie. They didn’t even define the time span to traumatic incident ratio. From the looks of it, Dany lost half the Dothraki,
Jorah, Missandei, A Dragon, Jon Snow and
Avoided Vairys’s poisoning in the span of less than 2 weeks. Realistically The woman probably shouldn’t have participated in that last battle.

 

[intlzncster]

No, you're finding retroactive excuses that do not outweigh the totality of the character development and storylines. The show writers had two queens. One refused to set aside personal goals for mankind and the other sacrificed her ambitions to save others. .

No man,she went North because of Jon. Without Jon, she doesn't help the North first. They said as much in the show She then loses Jon in more ways than one. (I think if she'd known his birthrigh ahead of time, she might have just let him die up there)

She's always been one of the most selfish characters in the show.

 

[Horatio]

Harry Strickland and the Golden Company went out like punks. Thanks for playing.

 

[Scalito]

No man,she went North because of Jon. Without Jon, she doesn't help the North first. They said as much in the show She then loses Jon in more ways than one. (I think if she'd known his birthrigh ahead of time, she might have just let him die up there)

Heck, did you watch the preview before hand? Everything said and done in previous scenes pointed towards this.

Come on. She stayed in Mereen an extra season just to make sure slaves were not re-enslaved after she left. She set aside her ambitions to do the right thing for others. Why are people just pretending seven seasons of do-gooderism away to defend trash story writing?

 

[Horatio]

Come on. She stayed in Mereen an extra season just to make sure slaves were not re-enslaved after she left. She set aside her ambitions to do the right thing for others. Why are people just pretending seven seasons of do-gooderism away to defend trash story writing?

Exactly

 

[Horatio]

And how do explain killing her off next episode when the biggest existing military power, The Dothraki/Unsullied + one Dragon, is loyal/ devoted to her. It’s a mess.

 

[intlzncster]

Come on. She stayed in Mereen an extra season just to make sure slaves were not re-enslaved after she left. She set aside her ambitions to do the right thing for others. Why are people just pretending seven seasons of do-gooderism away to defend trash story writing?

Because you view it black and white. You set aside all the times she was utterly ruthless, simply to further her own goals. Dany was a duality, good person vs tyrant (Targaryen).

I viewed it as her being totally alone. Outside of greyworm, I think she feels as if she has no true allies left. It's a little nuts (as most Targaryens seem to be), but she clearly feels she's been betrayed at every turn. As Master Aemon says,'a Targaryen alone in the world is a terrible thing'.

 

[UofCT]

And how do explain killing her off next episode when the biggest existing military power, The Dothraki/Unsullied + one Dragon, is loyal/ devoted to her. It’s a mess.

Who says she is being killed off?

 

[intlzncster]

And how do explain killing her off next episode when the biggest existing military power, The Dothraki/Unsullied + one Dragon, is loyal/ devoted to her. It’s a mess.

Arya sneaking? Jon knife in the back?

Tyrion's probably getting burned at the stake, so I doubt he'll do it. But it would be interesting if he did. The Queenslayer to Jaime's Kingslayer.

 

[Scalito]

Because you view it black and white. You set aside all the times she was utterly ruthless, simply to further her own goals.

Bullcrap. It's just the opposite. You are pretending that there is no ruthlessness in good people. That executing someone holding you captive or conspiring to dethrone you is sufficient reason to expect someone to turn into Sauron if she gets too sad. Except, you are only pretending for Duality Dany. Good Jon and Honorable Ned can ruthlessly execute people and still remain just good.

 

[ZooCougar]

No, you're finding retroactive excuses that do not outweigh the totality of the character development and storylines. The show writers had two queens. One refused to set aside personal goals for mankind and the other sacrificed her ambitions to save others. They made it clear who the good queen was and who the bad queen was. It wasn't tinctured with grey. Then, after losing nearly all, the Savoir is Villian.

That is piss poor writing. Make her evil, you could do it. But it wasn't done beforehand and it wasn't adequately done in the space of one episode between saving the world and slaughtering people who'd already surrendered. The scrunchie-face, I-am-mad-because-Jon-won't-screw-me look doesn't suffice for hero-to-villian character development.

The show is trash.

I think she spent those years abroad building an army big enough to take the Iron Throne. It wasn’t totally altruistic.

I think her isolation in Westeros put her over the edge. She was used to being loved and when she wasn’t the only game in town she reacted poorly. She has always been volatile.

Incinerating the Tarlys was probably a bad move too.

 

[ZooCougar]

Bullcrap. It's just the opposite. You are pretending that there is no ruthlessness in good people. That executing someone holding you captive or conspiring to dethrone you is sufficient reason to expect someone to turn into Sauron if she gets too sad. Except, you are only pretending for Duality Dany. Good Jon and Honorable Ned can ruthlessly execute people and still remain just good.

It’s not about ruthlessness on its own. It’s applying it correctly. She definitely had a tendency to misapply it arguably.

 

[Scalito]

I think she spent those years abroad building an army big enough to take the Iron Throne. It wasn’t totally altruistic.

I think her isolation in Westeros put her over the edge. She was used to being loved and when she wasn’t the only game in town she reacted poorly. She has always been volatile.

Incinerating the Tarlys was probably a bad move too.

Why was executing the Tarly's worse than Ned executing the Night Watch man fleeing a whitewalker or Jon executing a prebuscent boy? You say so, the show tried to tell us it was so in order to provide the patina of character development. But why? It just isn't. They chose death over swearing allegiance and joining the Night's Watch.

I am sorry. Draw distinctions all you like. It is silly to claim they are different enough to presage Sauron Dany.

 

[Horatio]

Who says she is being killed off?

I have no idea but she’s the clear villain going into the last episode.

 

[intlzncster]

Bullcrap. It's just the opposite. You are pretending that there is no ruthlessness in good people. That executing someone holding you captive or conspiring to dethrone you is sufficient reason to expect someone to turn into Sauron if she gets too sad. Except, you are only pretending for Duality Dany. Good Jon and Honorable Ned can ruthlessly execute people and still remain just good.

And you make her emotionally flat/rational, when she's anything but. she's the most high strung character in the show. You give no credence to Targaryen madness. She's had signs of it here and there for a while now. Just took enough punches in the gut to bring it out. By definition,madness isn't rational.

Would have been better if she flew straight to the red Keep. And they had a few scorpions hidden throughout the City. They fire post surrender, and she destroys the entire City in retribution.

EOD she had made a firm decision to rule by fear. No one in Kings landing bent the knee. If you don't bend the knee you burn.

 

[UofCT]

I have no idea but she’s the clear villain going into the last episode.

If you think this has a happy ending you haven't been paying attention

 

[Scalito]

And you make her emotionally flat/rational, when she's anything but. she's the most high strung character in the show. You give no credence to Targaryen madness. She's had signs of it here and there for a while now. Just took enough punches in the gut to bring it out. By definition,madness isn't rational.

Would have been better if she flew straight to the red Keep. And they had a few scorpions hidden throughout the City. They fire post surrender, and she destroys the entire City in retribution.

EOD she had made a firm decision to rule by fear. No one in Kings landing bent the knee. If you don't bend the knee you burn.

I expect her to stay in character unless given reason to believe otherwise. Being alone is insufficient. She was alone for the first few seasons and won her following. Being sads and mads and upset with people standing in the way of her rule is insufficient. She chose to marry one of Mereen's masters instead of burning them in just such a situation.

You want her to be evil? Fine. I usually prefer the villains over the heros myself. But don't ask me to pretend the transformation was done with a modicum of skill and deftness. It was like watching Luke Skywalker try and kill his nephew all over again. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

 

[UofCT]

I expect her to stay in character unless given reason to believe otherwise. Being alone is insufficient. She was alone for the first few seasons and won her following. Being sads and mads and upset with people standing in the way of her rule is insufficient. She chose to marry one of Mereen's masters instead of burning them in just such a situation.

You want her to be evil? Fine. I usually prefer the villains over the heros myself. But don't ask me to pretend the transformation was done with a modicum of skill and deftness. It was like watching Luke Skywalker try and kill his nephew all over again. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Did you just spoil one of the new Star Wars movies?

 

[Scalito]

Did you just spoil one of the new Star Wars movies?

Do yourself a favor: don't watch it. It sucks.

 

[intlzncster]

I expect her to stay in character unless given reason to believe otherwise. Being alone is insufficient. She was alone for the first few seasons and won her following.
Being sads and mads and upset with people standing in the way of her rule is insufficient.

Not just alone. Betrayed (in her mind). Threatened. She said so. You expect her to act like you would for some reason. Not a volatile Targaryen.

She had people on her side already looking to supplant her rule (Varys et al), others refusing to bend the knee (Sansa/North), advisers consistently failing/betraying her, and someone with a better claim to the throne.

She was as vulnerable as she's been in a long time. Volatile people lash out when vulnerable.

Didn't you notice how, people were questioning what kind of queen she'd be for a while now? Whether through words or looks. They clearly noticed something off.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Come on. She stayed in Mereen an extra season just to make sure slaves were not re-enslaved after she left. She set aside her ambitions to do the right thing for others. Why are people just pretending seven seasons of do-gooderism away to defend trash story writing?

She told us why. They loved her for freeing them. Nobody in Westeros needed freeing. Nobody loved her and nobody was going to love her. Ultimately, not even Jon. All she could be was a better version of Cersei. She couldn’t handle that.

That said there was a whole lot of not goodness in seasons before this. She was pretty nasty in most of season 7. And ruthless in season 6.

 

[August_West]

Holy excuses Batman!

and holy LOL his hand was on the back of her neck!

 

[Scalito]

She told us why. They loved her for freeing them. Nobody in Westeros needed freeing. Nobody loved her and nobody was going to love her. Ultimately, not even Jon. All she could be was a better version of Cersei. She couldn’t handle that.

That said there was a whole lot of not goodness in seasons before this. She was pretty nasty in most of season 7. And ruthless in season 6.

I know they told us. Everyone realizes HBO offered reasons for the transformation. Thier absence was not the problem. The problem was how ham-handed those reasons were. How forced, contrived, rushed and therefore unbelievable.

We all knew why Annakin Skywalker became Darth Vader. That doesn't mean Lucas offered up a good story developing that reason in a believably organic manner. Same with Sauron Dany.