Game of Thrones - Season 5 | Page 8 | The Boneyard

Game of Thrones - Season 5

Deepster said:
I'm surprised to see the complaints at the level of saying things like "show runners have just about used up all of the good will they earned". Each season has been some of the best told storytelling I've ever watched on television. Last season was insane. You get a few slower episodes to start the season and people want heads on stakes? Geez.
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They still have mucho good will credit with me..... but they used up an awful lot of it with LOLSand snakes.
 
Deepster said:
I'm surprised to see the complaints at the level of saying things like "show runners have just about used up all of the good will they earned". Each season has been some of the best told storytelling I've ever watched on television. Last season was insane. You get a few slower episodes to start the season and people want heads on stakes? Geez.
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This season was always going to be extremely difficult to satisfy both book readers and tv-only viewers. It's not really a surprise given that this season is taking from both book 4 and 5. There's just too much plot to cover in 10 episodes; and it's really like 5/6 episodes for every major character. Tyrion, Dany, and Jon aren't even in book 4. But I'm expecting this season to end with a BANG!
 
Deepster said:
I'm surprised to see the complaints at the level of saying things like "show runners have just about used up all of the good will they earned". Each season has been some of the best told storytelling I've ever watched on television. Last season was insane. You get a few slower episodes to start the season and people want heads on stakes? Geez.
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You're really surprised? On a board that didn't think Edsall was progressing fast enough and still isn't sure that KO can coach?
 
Deepster said:
I'm surprised to see the complaints at the level of saying things like "show runners have just about used up all of the good will they earned". Each season has been some of the best told storytelling I've ever watched on television. Last season was insane. You get a few slower episodes to start the season and people want heads on stakes? Geez.
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Maybe it was a bit of an overreaction based on how much I hated the last episode, but I really think this season in general has been done poorly. We are six episodes in, and the problem is not that the plot is slow it's that the writing is bad.

I have to remind myself that after this season I have no idea what is going to happen and for all I know they are just trying to get through all this stuff (books 4 & 5) as fast as possible to get to some better plot lines.
 
August_West said:
I dont want Sansa to be a badass. She is pathetic.
Ned was playing the game pretty well to that point and was getting out of the city. He would've too but spoiled brat Sansa didnt want to leave kings landing and her shot at marrying Joffrey so she spilled the beans on Neds plan to leave Kings landing to Cersei. Screw Sansa. She pretty much amounts to a blood traitor.
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Sansa was just a child. I mean, I hated her then too, but man can you hold a grudge! Little girl sees daddy's head whacked off, suffers Joffrey's depredations, loses her family . . . and you're still mad at her? Geez. Outside of Arya, Sansa's become one of my favorite characters in the later books to read. She's done some quick on-the-job learning.
 
Sansa does lie to protect her aunt's murderer. Thhe same aunt that took a huge risk in taking Sansa in the first place.
 
.-.
Same aunt that turned out to be a psycho and threatened to kill her
 
Spartacus said:
Sansa was just a child. I mean, I hated her then too, but man can you hold a grudge! Little girl sees daddy's head whacked off, suffers Joffrey's depredations, loses her family . . . and you're still mad at her? Geez. Outside of Arya, Sansa's become one of my favorite characters in the later books to read. She's done some quick on-the-job learning.
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Im still butthurt over Sansa, yes. In a world that puts family above all else, Sansa has done nothing but make self serving decisions every step of the way.
She even sold out Arya and that kid on the way to Kings landing.
It must've stunk seeing her Dad's head chopped off knowing she is pretty much the sole reason for it. It must've stunk knowing Rob and her mom got killed at the Twins because of her selfishness in having to marry Joffrey above all other concerns. Must stink thinking Bran and Rickon are dead because of her. You can pretty much trace the whole war of the 5 kings back to her selfishness.

Rob and John Snow were not much older than Sansa, Arya and Bran younger. All of them put family first. May the many faced god provide Sansa with a (not so swift) death :-)

Yeahm I hold a grudge. :-)
 
August_West said:
Im still butthurt over Sansa, yes. In a world that puts family above all else, Sansa has done nothing but make self serving decisions every step of the way.
She even sold out Arya and that kid on the way to Kings landing.
It must've stunk seeing her Dad's head chopped off knowing she is pretty much the sole reason for it. It must've stunk knowing Rob and her mom got killed at the Twins because of her selfishness in having to marry Joffrey above all other concerns. Must stink thinking Bran and Rickon are dead because of her. You can pretty much trace the whole war of the 5 kings back to her selfishness.

Rob and John Snow were not much older than Sansa, Arya and Bran younger. All of them put family first. May the many faced god provide Sansa with a (not so swift) death :)

Yeahm I hold a grudge. :)
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Sansa is in many ways the most believable redemptive character in a series filled with former villains turned sympathetic victim or even fan favorite. When you're reading a book from child killers' points of view, it's easy to cheer for Jaime One-Hand to find his honor or Reek to man-up and become Theon No-D-ck. But of all the transgressions in the early books, being a naive brat, when you're a pre-pubescent beauty and daughter of a powerful family, is rather low on my list of crimes and the most likely to be overcome should events demand it.

I like Sansa's story arc. She'll never be as fearless and deadly as my favorite character---Arya---but she has the makings to be one of the most dangerous GOT players. She has (1) Petyr Baelish as her tutor, (2) the lineage Baelish lacks in a world where family name and power are intertwined, and (3) she's been gorged on the bitterness of failure wrought by too much trust and naivety. If everything falls into place, as it likely will for the eldest daughter of the most important family in the series, Sansa could be the veiled glove that moves Arya around the gameboard in the most efficacious and beneficial manner possible for Stark revenge and Stark power.

I think we agree on one thing---Ned gets unfairly beaten up for "playing the game" poorly in my opinion. It's not a crime to be honorable--it's a good thing we're supposed to cheer for; it's in fact why fans cheer for his kids more than perfectly sweet and blameless Myrcella and Tommen---and Ned was operating in a different world. In his world, the King was the King and the princes and princess were the King's children. He therefore wasn't trying to secure anything. He was trying to rule well on behalf of a bad king and the kingdom's people. And when the veil was removed, by his own actions for those who forget, he sought to secure the throne for the true heir. About the only dumb thing he did was confront Cersei, to give her a chance to flee, and even that attempted bit of mercy wouldn't have proven fatal if Sansa hadn't tattled.
 
Penfield said:
Same aunt that turned out to be a psycho and threatened to kill her
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Threatened? More like tried. :)

I never liked Littlefinger, for all his admirable scheming, until he tossed that crazy b-tch from the Eyrie after twisting the emotional knife in her back. The mean, and yet cooly delivered quip about only ever loving Cat, made up a bit for his part in Ned's downfall.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
After Sansa sucked face with her uncle. It's complicated.
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^^ This just made me spit coffee at my desk. A+
Spartacus said:
Sansa is in many ways the most believable redemptive character in a series filled with former villains turned sympathetic victim or even fan favorite. When you're reading a book from child killers' points of view, it's easy to cheer for Jaime One-Hand to find his honor or Reek to man-up and become Theon No-D-ck. But of all the transgressions in the early books, being a naive brat, when you're a pre-pubescent beauty and daughter of a powerful family, is rather low on my list of crimes and the most likely to be overcome should events demand it.

I like Sansa's story arc. She'll never be as fearless and deadly as my favorite character---Arya---but she has the makings to be one of the most dangerous GOT players. She has (1) Petyr Baelish as her tutor, (2) the lineage Baelish lacks in a world where family name and power are intertwined, and (3) she's been gorged on the bitterness of failure wrought by too much trust and naivety. If everything falls into place, as it likely will for the eldest daughter of the most important family in the series, Sansa could be the veiled glove that moves Arya around the gameboard in the most efficacious and beneficial manner possible for Stark revenge and Stark power.

I think we agree on one thing---Ned gets unfairly beaten up for "playing the game" poorly in my opinion. It's not a crime to be honorable--it's a good thing we're supposed to cheer for; it's in fact why fans cheer for his kids more than perfectly sweet and blameless Myrcella and Tommen---and Ned was operating in a different world. In his world, the King was the King and the princes and princess were the King's children. He therefore wasn't trying to secure anything. He was trying to rule well on behalf of a bad king and the kingdom's people. And when the veil was removed, by his own actions for those who forget, he sought to secure the throne for the true heir. About the only dumb thing he did was confront Cersei, to give her a chance to flee, and even that attempted bit of mercy wouldn't have proven fatal if Sansa hadn't tattled.
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I don't like the way your logical, well reasoned facts get in the way of my knee jerk, over emotional meltdowns about the hypergamous ginger jerk.

Don't make me put you on ignore. I like your posts too much.:D
 
.-.
Spartacus said:
Threatened? More like tried. :)

I never liked Littlefinger, for all his admirable scheming, until he tossed that crazy b-tch from the Eyrie after twisting the emotional knife in her back. The mean, and yet cooly delivered quip about only ever loving Cat, made up a bit for his part in Ned's downfall.
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That was interesting because on the one hand Littlefinger saved Sansa's life, but at the same time you realize he wasn't just a schemer but also a seriously evil dude. Makes you wonder if he ever considers Sansa to be anything more than a pawn in his game.
 
Penfield said:
That was interesting because on the one hand Littlefinger saved Sansa's life, but at the same time you realize he wasn't just a schemer but also a seriously evil dude. Makes you wonder if he ever considers Sansa to be anything more than a pawn in his game.
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I am certain he cares more about Sansa than anyone else in the world, other than himself of course, which means something even for a scheming bast-rd like him. He basically has transferred his obsession for Cat, an obsession which made him act stupidly the once and only time in his entire life when he challenged Ned's brother to a duel for Cat's hand, to Sansa. He might even think it is love.

Doesn't mean he puts her interests ahead of his own, but there is something there. Even the most evil villains in history think they're good people and usually have some family they're good to because they're theirs. I see Sansa fulfiling that role/need for Littlefinger.
 
Spartacus said:
I am certain he cares more about Sansa than anyone else in the world, other than himself of course, which means something even for a scheming bast-rd like him. He basically has transferred his obsession for Cat, an obsession which made him act stupidly the once and only time in his entire life when he challenged Ned's brother to a duel for Cat's hand, to Sansa. He might even think it is love.

Doesn't mean he puts her interests ahead of his own, but there is something there. Even the most evil villains in history think they're good people and usually have some family they're good to because they're theirs. I see Sansa fulfiling that role/need for Littlefinger.
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We will see. I am not sure he actually cares at all, but I am sure he wants her in the same way he wants riches and power. Cat was the one thing he couldn't have and Sansa is an adequate replacement.
 
Penfield said:
We will see. I am not sure he actually cares at all, but I am sure he wants her in the same way he wants riches and power. Cat was the one thing he couldn't have and Sansa is an adequate replacement.
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We're on the same page here. Yours was just a better way of putting it.....
 
Very good episode, except for, once again, Dorne. Dorne did improve from full blown absurdity to just mild silliness. That Sand Snake's body was spectacular, although it was more than a little odd that Dornish jailers don't check their prisoners for illegal substances before putting them across the dungeon from their mortal enemies.

Kings Landing rocked, as usual. More QoT is a good thing for the show. Casting a hitter like Jonathan Pryce as the High Sparrow was a good move, because it gives the character instant credibility.

Good move combining Tyrion, Jorah and Danaerys. One less plot arc to follow now. I do think that Danearys is being a total B about Jorah, since he did save her from Drogo's bloodrider, and there was pretty much no one else that could have done that for her.
 
.-.
The Dorne scenes are awful, but I fell like they're just including it because they can't ignore that aspect of the story. It's just a sideshow at this point.
 
Yeah, what's the point of this?
1. Jamie catches sword in iron/gold/brass whatever metal it is hand
2. ???
3. Nice

That's about all I got out of this so far, did I miss anything?
 
Brochacho said:
Yeah, what's the point of this?
1. Jamie catches sword in iron/gold/brass whatever metal it is hand
2. ???
3. Nice

That's about all I got out of this so far, did I miss anything?
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Jamie's daughter-niece doesn't want to leave Dorne. She may be the second smartest, after Tyrion, of all the Lannisters right now.
 
Brochacho said:
Yeah, what's the point of this?
1. Jamie catches sword in iron/gold/brass whatever metal it is hand
2. ???
3. Nice

That's about all I got out of this so far, did I miss anything?
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It should be about the fate of the princess and whether or not Dorne will rise against Kings Landing, either through the Prince or the snakes, but I can't for the life of me figure out what they intend to do.

All I've got so far is Jamie in prision, again, and Bronn making time with a co-ed. Nice story and all, but what it has to do with the series is beyond me, since they are completely off script here.

I'm also about done with the Sparrows. The idea that a bunch of guys in rags can run about the Capitol rounding people up at sword point, is just too much. It's a political power struggle, not some JV squire running around with his already dated forehead tribal tattoo.

So now we have half the royal family locked up and the King with an army and two major families, two and a half if you count the loyal Baratheons, behind him isn't clearing out the rabble, please.

The sparrows, retort to the QoT's very real threat to cut off the food, was ridiculous.
 
A few other thoughts -

It appears that the Shireen barbecue has been set in motion . . .

Wondering if Sam's vow-breaking is setting him up for his demise now that he's alone with Aliser Thorne in charge.
 
SAMCRO said:
Jamie's daughter-niece doesn't want to leave Dorne. She may be the second smartest, after Tyrion, of all the Lannisters right now.
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Dorne has all kinds of problems. Ironically, Bronn pointed out how stupid this plan was before they even landed at Dorne. I wonder if the writers added that scene afterwards as a way of apologizing in advance for the mess they made with that plot arc. Of course Mycella is going to not want to leave. That leave 3 characters in Dorne: Doran, Tristane, and Mycella, that are not total idiots.

The scene with Stannis was excellent. It took me a while to warm up to him in the book, and it has been the same way with the show.

Sam didn't break his vow. Sam noted several seasons ago that the vow only forbids taking a wife, not carnal relations.

I had a similar response to Subba about the Sparrows initially, but I really like the plot arc now. Religious fanaticism is a frequent response to social upheaval, and the War of the Five Kings is definitely some upheaval. Fanatics will stand by their beliefs despite seemingly insurmountable odds, and I think the High Sparrow is proving to be a much better player than anyone expected. We are also seeing the effect of the power vacuum left by Tywin's death, and Jaime warned in the first scene of the first episode of this season.

I particularly liked the High Sparrow's smackdown of the QoT, which was not in the books but was excellent. She is finally appreciating how badly things have spiraled out of control. The retaliation against Cersei is simply punitive, she has two key assets sitting in cells, and has some tough decisions to make.

My problem with the Winterfell plotline is that an alliance with a bunch of stuck up lords like the Vale is impossible now with the way Ramsay is treating Sansa, and Roose would know that. The Bolton's are completely isolated, and have no chance of surviving short of some deus ex machina by the writers, and Roose would not have allowed that to happen.
 
.-.
nelsonmuntz said:
Dorne has all kinds of problems. Ironically, Bronn pointed out how stupid this plan was before they even landed at Dorne. I wonder if the writers added that scene afterwards as a way of apologizing in advance for the mess they made with that plot arc. Of course Mycella is going to not want to leave. That leave 3 characters in Dorne: Doran, Tristane, and Mycella, that are not total idiots.

The scene with Stannis was excellent. It took me a while to warm up to him in the book, and it has been the same way with the show.

Sam didn't break his vow. Sam noted several seasons ago that the vow only forbids taking a wife, not carnal relations.

I had a similar response to Subba about the Sparrows initially, but I really like the plot arc now. Religious fanaticism is a frequent response to social upheaval, and the War of the Five Kings is definitely some upheaval. Fanatics will stand by their beliefs despite seemingly insurmountable odds, and I think the High Sparrow is proving to be a much better player than anyone expected. We are also seeing the effect of the power vacuum left by Tywin's death, and Jaime warned in the first scene of the first episode of this season.

I particularly liked the High Sparrow's smackdown of the QoT, which was not in the books but was excellent. She is finally appreciating how badly things have spiraled out of control. The retaliation against Cersei is simply punitive, she has two key assets sitting in cells, and has some tough decisions to make.

My problem with the Winterfell plotline is that an alliance with a bunch of stuck up lords like the Vale is impossible now with the way Ramsay is treating Sansa, and Roose would know that. The Bolton's are completely isolated, and have no chance of surviving short of some deus ex machina by the writers, and Roose would not have allowed that to happen.
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I don't think the Vale would ever come to the Bolton's aid, seeing as the didn't come to aid the Starks. Littlefinger is Lord in name only. His grip on those lords can't be very strong. The books have yet to answer that question, but unless the crown would support his claim with force, he has no one but paid sell swords to back him. He doesn't even really control the heir.

The sparrow arc is about to fall back in line with the books, so my complaints are mostly about the believability of the set up. I suppose without the Lannisters in town, Cersei and the King need to be on the same side as the Tyrells on this matter. It was one of my favorite parts of AFFC and I feel they butchered it.

I like Excalibur's take on Sam. It's not one I thought of previously. If they change this arc like I think they will, Sam could play an important part given some of the other changes we've seen.
 
Yeah, I have no idea what happened in the books. But I figured all along that this plan of hers would backfire. That was a good episode.

You figure Brienne of Tarth will intervene for Sansa. Aemon Targaryen dying just makes way for Sam to take his place.
 
SubbaBub said:
I don't think the Vale would ever come to the Bolton's aid, seeing as the didn't come to aid the Starks. Littlefinger is Lord in name only. His grip on those lords can't be very strong. The books have yet to answer that question, but unless the crown would support his claim with force, he has no one but paid sell swords to back him. He doesn't even really control the heir.

The sparrow arc is about to fall back in line with the books, so my complaints are mostly about the believability of the set up. I suppose without the Lannisters in town, Cersei and the King need to be on the same side as the Tyrells on this matter. It was one of my favorite parts of AFFC and I feel they butchered it.

I like Excalibur's take on Sam. It's not one I thought of previously. If they change this arc like I think they will, Sam could play an important part given some of the other changes we've seen.
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Unless both the books and show take a right turn, Littlefinger has the Vale.

I don't think the Tyrells and Lannisters will ever completely repair the split.

I think they are adding in a couple of extra episodes of Ramsay-crazy before one of Brienne, Stannis or someone from the Vale finishes him off.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
Unless both the books and show take a right turn, Littlefinger has the Vale.

I don't think the Tyrells and Lannisters will ever completely repair the split.

I think they are adding in a couple of extra episodes of Ramsay-crazy before one of Brienne, Stannis or someone from the Vale finishes him off.
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Other folks have lost their lands who had a stronger hold on them. I'd like to think that Peter gets his at some point. He's the biggest "villian" left and he's batting a good average so far.

I alluded to the internal power struggles between the Tyrells and the Lannisters, and the Lannisters and Cersei, and the Tyrells and Ceresi. That was all cut our and I think that's why this season is falling flat.

It's looking like the last two episodes will make or break the entire series. I'll be fascinated to see which direction they go.

After the first two episodes I thought they were going to save the books. After the last two I fear they may kill the TV show. Sunday, left me with a deep sense of forboding that whoever is left after the Sansa nonsense will throw up their hands and say F this.
 
.-.
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