Game of Thrones - Season 5

[Scalito]

Agree completely. This season hasn't really done it for me yet. I think they are slipping in a few areas. But I wouldn't say the show sucks yet.

Expectations!

You're used to the on-screen adaptation of the novels that made the series. You're now watching the on-screen adaptation of the novels I've been b-itching about since this began. And not just me. Most of the GoT fandom. There were reasons for the b-tching---the story starts to meander. Not as much happens. HBO is therefore doing better than can be expected, in my opinion.

 

[August_West]

Lol. If it makes you feel better, Selmy's not dead as far as I am concerned until I see him buried in the ground. But you're right---I was hugely disappointed when he didn't open a can of whoop-ass on a bunch of highborn p-ssies dressed for a masquerade ball.

P.s. The Snakes blew.

I wanted to believe that too about Selmy, but they seem to have spoiled that with the preview of this coming episode with him laid out with the stones in his eyes deal.

 

[Scalito]

I wanted to believe that too about Selmy, but they seem to have spoiled that with the preview of this coming episode with him laid out with the stones in his eyes deal.

Seriously?!? That's f-cken stupid. Not only did the greatest knight get killed by vermin, the show lost the best plot device available for disabusing Danny about the comfortable version of history Viserys taught her. Dumb, de-dumb, dumb, duuuumb.

 

[August_West]

Seriously?!? That's f-cken stupid. Not only did the greatest knight get killed by vermin, the show lost the best plot device available for disabusing Danny about the comfortable version of history Viserys taught her. Dumb, de-dumb, dumb, duuuumb.

Yeah thats what pretty much precipitated my GoT meltdown. I give them credit they are trolling their fans in a pretty big fashion.I kind of respect that.

 

[August_West]

Seriously?!? That's f-cken stupid. Not only did the greatest knight get killed by vermin, the show lost the best plot device available for disabusing Danny about the comfortable version of history Viserys taught her. Dumb, de-dumb, dumb, duuuumb.

SO F'in stupid:
http://www.ew.com/article/2015/05/01/ser-barristan-dead-thrones

 

[Scalito]

I feel like the only ones hating on the show right now are the book readers.

I'm defending it from Zoo! He's not a book reader. I actually think it's better than the books, although killing Selmy and turning the Sand Snakes into WWE wrestlers weren't high points for HBO.

 

[August_West]

Lets forget the books for a minute, on the show only they cannot even avoid contradicting themselves. We are witnessing the beginning of the end of greatness:

 

[ZooCougar]

I'm defending it from Zoo! He's not a book reader. I actually think it's better than the books, although killing Selmy and turning the Sand Snakes into WWE wrestlers weren't high points for HBO.

It's not like I am going to stop watching. It's also pretty hard to sustain the level of excellence they have had for so long. Still plenty of time this season to rebound. And it hasn't been all mediocre.

 

[August_West]

It's not like I am going to stop watching. It's also pretty hard to sustain the level of excellence they have had for so long. Still plenty of time this season to rebound. And it hasn't been all mediocre.

Agreed still a great show. The only troubling thing is that the " level of excellence" is exactly coinciding with the book divergence. Some of it I like Eg. Sansa in winterfell some it I don't.

 

[Excalibur]

Agreed still a great show. The only troubling thing is that the " level of excellence" is exactly coinciding with the book divergence. Some of it I like Eg. Sansa in winterfell some it I don't.

The level of excellence of the books went way downhill during the same story arcs. We'll see who ends up doing better . . .

 

[August_West]

The level of excellence of the books went way downhill during the same story arcs. We'll see who ends up doing better . . .

Thats true. But also kind of gets at the point Im trying to make. If the show suck points were what the book suck points were, OK, blame the books. However, the suck points are actually where the show took their own license. THAT is what troubles me about the show going forward. I could be wrong and they get it all ironed out going forward. Just having a discussion on where we are at today after 4 episodes and this being really the first season where they are breaking the mold.

 

[SAMCRO]

The book unsullied would have destroyed those harpies.

I was thinking that exact same. Would have made more sense if it was a 1 or 2 unsullied getting taken out where they were throat slit from behind, but not while armed and in a face to face fight like that, even being outnumbered. I read all the books, and I am still liking the show this season as most of the deviations ahve been pertty solid. The ending to last week was the only part that had me questioning the change. Will see what it opens up to going forward tho.

 

[Scalito]

Thats true. But also kind of gets at the point Im trying to make. If the show suck points were what the book suck points were, OK, blame the books. However, the suck points are actually where the show took their own license. THAT is what troubles me about the show going forward. I could be wrong and they get it all ironed out going forward. Just having a discussion on where we are at today after 4 episodes and this being really the first season where they are breaking the mold.

Sounds to me from the interview of the Selmy actor like HBO felt it needed to keep people on their toes with some unexpected twists and turns, and Selmy's pitiful demise was one way they tried. I'll give them that and hope it works out. Maybe he survives long enough to drop some truth bombs from his death bed. That'd actually mollify me some.

Either way, I blame Martin. It's not HBO's fault that Danny's plot arc is so boringly stalled on the other side of the ocean that matters. I can see why the television writers would feel the need to spice things up. Which is why I keep telling you folks---Danny must die!

I am going to become like Cato "Carthage Must Fall" the Elder on this if that's what it takes to win converts and petition signatures......

 

[Excalibur]

I'm defending it from Zoo! He's not a book reader. I actually think it's better than the books, although killing Selmy and turning the Sand Snakes into WWE wrestlers weren't high points for HBO.

The Sand Snakes were much more of a problem for me than how Barristan Selmy died. They have managed to introduce previously unknown characters on the show much more artfully in the past -- compare the introduction of Oberyn to the sand snakes, for example.

As for Barristan, I can criticize the decision to kill him off -- he seems too important to the development of Dany's self-awareness --, but perhaps Varys will fill some of the story-telling role. I think the criticism of the fight is a bit silly. The show has already established, correctly, that a giant sword is not an ideal weapon for fighting in close quarters. I think you have to suspend disbelief more to think that even a supreme fighter could cut through a large group with a weapon specifically ill-suited for the purpose.

The Unsullied, on the other hand, would not have been so undisciplined.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I'm defending it from Zoo! He's not a book reader. I actually think it's better than the books, although killing Selmy and turning the Sand Snakes into WWE wrestlers weren't high points for HBO.

HBO did not distinguish itself with the introduction of the Sand Snakes. I would like less Sand Snakes and Ellaria, and more Doran.

I can live with Selmy dying. The Dany part of the world is about to get more crowded anyway.

If the show does end up with Dany, Tyrion and J.S. having anything to do with the 3 freaking dragons together, I will invent a time machine and travel back to 2010, just so I can unwatch the shows and unread the books. That would be the best use of a time machine should the show/Martin go in that direction.

 

[SAMCRO]

Agreed, NO to the Dany, John Snow, Tyrion united/happy ending. Tyrion needs to die. Not any time soon, but eventually, like in the final season. They will continue to build him up like a hooker with a heart of gold type endearment, and then they need to end him. Not end him in a gallant way, like saving Dany and JS life so they can live happily ever after, but end him at the hands of Bran, or with Arya putting needle thru his windpipe to avenge all the wrongdoings the Lannister's have done to the Starks over the years.... After all, a Lannister always pays his debts!

 

[ZooCougar]

The Sand Snakes were much more of a problem for me than how Barristan Selmy died. They have managed to introduce previously unknown characters on the show much more artfully in the past -- compare the introduction of Oberyn to the sand snakes, for example.

As for Barristan, I can criticize the decision to kill him off -- he seems too important to the development of Dany's self-awareness --, but perhaps Varys will fill some of the story-telling role. I think the criticism of the fight is a bit silly. The show has already established, correctly, that a giant sword is not an ideal weapon for fighting in close quarters. I think you have to suspend disbelief more to think that even a supreme fighter could cut through a large group with a weapon specifically ill-suited for the purpose.

The Unsullied, on the other hand, would not have been so undisciplined.

Maybe arguing with a guy called Excalibur over the tactical details of sword fighting is futile. But wouldn't a smart fighter not allow himself to become decisively engaged in an environment like that, if he didn't really have the right weapon for the task?

 

[Scalito]

If the show does end up with Dany, Tyrion and J.S. having anything to do with the 3 freaking dragons together, I will invent a time machine and travel back to 2010, just so I can unwatch the shows and unread the books. That would be the best use of a time machine should the show/Martin go in that direction.

Agreed, NO to the Dany, John Snow, Tyrion united/happy ending. Tyrion needs to die. Not any time soon, but eventually, like in the final season.

Can I ask the folks like you and Waylon what you expect the dragons are there for? You're watching a show with a major character, probably the major character, defined by her unique status as the Mother of Dragons. The first season saw them birthed, and now they're growing up. Do you expect they're going to stay part of the backdrop forever?

I'm not asking what ya'll would like to happen with the dragons. I'm asking whether you think they're gonna just be part of the set until the curtains fall.

P.s. I wouldn't bet that Tyrion flies a dragon. John will hook up with Danny somehow as Targ No. 2 (he's her nephew), of that I'm certain. But I wouldn't presume to bet on Tyrion.

 

[Scalito]

Maybe arguing with a guy called Excalibur over the tactical details of sword fighting is futile. But wouldn't a smart fighter not allow himself to become decisively engaged in an environment like that, if he didn't really have the right weapon for the task?

Let's nerd out on this ---

He fights with a sword like that because he's a knight and wears . . . armor. I'm not going to willingly suspend fantasy-world belief (the world's best knight kicks the out of p-ssies in all situations) simply because HBO didn't put him in armor. If he couldn't protect the queen with that sword without armor in those types of situations, he'd wear the proper equipment that accompanies that sword. He's the one and only member of Danny's Queens Guard. Not a courtier. He should be dressing like it. And if he doesn't, it it's because he's so hard a-s he doesn't have to.

 

[ZooCougar]

Can I ask the folks like you and Waylon what you expect the dragons are there for? You're watching a show with a major character, probably the major character, defined by her unique status as the Mother of Dragons. The first season saw them birthed, and now they're growing up. Do you expect they're going to stay part of the backdrop forever?

I'm not asking what ya'll would like to happen with the dragons. I'm asking whether you think they're gonna just be part of the set until the curtains fall.

P.s. I wouldn't bet that Tyrion flies a dragon. John will hook up with Danny somehow as Targ No. 2 (he's her nephew), of that I'm certain. But I wouldn't presume to bet on Tyrion.

For a fantasy show, that has such a humanist bent. The Dragons just seem to smack of prophecy and predestination. I can see why it doesn't sit well with people.

 

[Scalito]

For a fantasy show, that has such a humanist bent. The Dragons just seem to smack of prophecy and predestination. I can see why it doesn't sit well with people.

I get the complaints. My question isn't about hopes or wants. It's about realistic expectations and predictions. I feel like Cassandra here . . . .

 

[ZooCougar]

Let's nerd out on this ---

He fights with a sword like that because he's a knight and wears . . . armor. I'm not going to willingly suspend fantasy-world belief (the world's best knight kicks the out of p-ssies in all situations) simply because HBO didn't put him in armor. If he couldn't protect the queen with that sword without armor in those types of situations, he'd wear the proper equipment that accompanies that sword. He's the one and only member of Danny's Queens Guard. Not a courtier. He should be dressing like it. And if he doesn't, it it's because he's so hard a-s he doesn't have to.

Then what is he doing out and about in the city? I think they just had to off him which makes room for Tyrion and then triggers Dany to move the plot forward.

 

[Scalito]

Then what is he doing out and about in the city? I think they just had to off him which makes room for Tyrion and then triggers Dany to move the plot forward.

Searching for a privy? Even the best knight needs to drop a deuce now and then.

 

[SAMCRO]

Can I ask the folks like you and Waylon what you expect the dragons are there for? You're watching a show with a major character, probably the major character, defined by her unique status as the Mother of Dragons. The first season saw them birthed, and now they're growing up. Do you expect they're going to stay part of the backdrop forever?

I'm not asking what ya'll would like to happen with the dragons. I'm asking whether you think they're gonna just be part of the set until the curtains fall.

I absolutely agree that the dragons will be more prominent as the story goes forward in this and future seasons. No clue what will happen - which is a great thing. Love that it could go in so many directions. I don't believe all 3 dragons will make it, one, two, or even all 3 could be gradually killed off...but they will play a huge role. I do think Tyrion gets it in the end, and I do think someone with Stark blood will win the game of thrones. How it happens, and which of the 5 remaining in the bloodline (Jon, Sansa, Arya, Bran, and Rickon) wins...no clue. It really could go in any number of places. I could picture Bran flying a dragon. He has the whole Warg and Greensight thing going on. Could you envision him getting into the head of a Dragon?? The Possibilities are endless!!

Let's not forget, there was also a little hint that Caitlin Stark may not be completely dead, so she could still play a role (hope not) - I sound like Miracle Max from The Princess Bride..."It just so happens that your friend here is only mostly dead. There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive....have fun storming the castle..." - read it with a older, NYer, nebishy accent).
There's also Benjen Startk, Ned's brother who took the Night's Watch and is "missing" north of the wall in the first season/book. Could he resurface (don't remmeber if they killed him off in the shows 1st couple seasons or not. Don't think so..I missed it if they did).

 

[ZooCougar]

I absolutely agree that the dragons will be more prominent as the story goes forward in this and future seasons. No clue what will happen - which is a great thing. Love that it could go in so many directions. I don't believe all 3 dragons will make it, one, two, or even all 3 could be gradually killed off...but they will play a huge role. I do think Tyrion gets it in the end, and I do think someone with Stark blood will win the game of thrones. How it happens, and which of the 5 remaining in the bloodline (Jon, Sansa, Arya, Bran, and Rickon) wins...no clue. It really could go in any number of places. I could picture Bran flying a dragon. He has the whole Warg and Greensight thing going on. Could you envision him getting into the head of a Dragon?? The Possibilities are endless!!

Let's not forget, there was also a little hint that Caitlin Stark may not be completely dead, so she could still play a role (hope not) - I sound like Miracle Max from The Princess Bride..."It just so happens that your friend here is only mostly dead. There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive....have fun storming the castle..." - read it with a older, NYer, nebishy accent).
There's also Benjen Startk, Ned's brother who took the Night's Watch and is "missing" north of the wall in the first season/book. Could he resurface (don't remmeber if they killed him off in the shows 1st couple seasons or not. Don't think so..I missed it if they did).

The story I am most interested in at this point is Arya. Everything is sort of coming together nicely for the Starks. An Assassin, a possible Lordess of the North, Commander of the Night's Watch, a powerful Warg. Could all of those characters be brought to bear against the Lannisters at once?

Plus you have Stannis and all his drama. Tyrion isn't going to do his former family any favors. Dany... The Martells.. If the Lannisters emerge from this intact then that would amazing.