August_West
Conscience do cost
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2011
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Nice. And a segue to a question I've pondered . . . . One I think HBO and the book readers have the same amount of information to answer, but correct me if I'm wrong---
What to make out of Melissandra's you-know-nothing quip to John? It happens on television and in print. Why? A coincidental use of the phrase? Seems as good an explanation as any, but I dunno. Any theories where it's not coincidental have to involve her magic, right? I doubt she knew Ygritte . . . . .
Show got back on track.
The Dany storyline is more a case of her making it up as she goes along, and bouncing from one crisis to another. Showing her power with the dragons was a good move, but then offering to marry the duplicitous Hizdahr zo Loraq was just flat out stupid. Her betrothal is her biggest carrot to offer when she gets to Westeros, and she wastes it on this jackass, who has no chance of being accepted in Westeros and will piss off Daario..
My take was Mellisandra appearing to be all-knowing for Jon's benefit by channeling Ygritte...may also refer by way of double entendres to any number of things Jon thinks he knows...Nice. And a segue to a question I've pondered . . . . One I think HBO and the book readers have the same amount of information to answer, but correct me if I'm wrong---
What to make out of Melissandra's you-know-nothing quip to John? It happens on television and in print. Why? A coincidental use of the phrase? Seems as good an explanation as any, but I dunno. Any theories where it's not coincidental have to involve her magic, right? I doubt she knew Ygritte . . . . .
This season is so weak IMO. None of the story lines have engaged me, and I absolutely loved the first 4 seasons.
The Tyrell nonsense is absurd - the idea that now Margaery is being put on trial was ridiculous, especially, the fact that these high priests could become more powerful than the king and queen in the matter of 1 episode, without any explanation as to how. The Bolton/Theon/Sansa story line is cringe worthy. The sand snakes - why should we care? - and they will be dragging down Bronn and Jaime, who I think are usually fascinating. We all know Danearys isn't doing jack-sh__ besides making questions decisions and Tyrion, my favorite character, has been stuck with one of the most boring characters in Mormont. I still have no idea what the hell is going on with Arya. Ugh...what a bummer.
I am intrigued by the Snow story line and that was my least favorite story line last year - I don't think it has engaged me any more than last year but at least it hasn't gotten worse.
nelsonmuntz said:The even numbered episodes seem to stumble a bit. The Sand Snakes are an embarrassment to the show. Just write them off at this point. There is no saving their relevance, and their silliness is wasting Doran Martell and Areo Hotah, who should be interesting characters, and making Bronn and Jaime silly too.
I know where the show is going with Kings Landing, and it is lurching there awkwardly. Neither the books nor the show ever explain why Cersei engages in something as self-destructive as pissing off the Tyrells, who are the Lannister's only allies. The show explains the high level reason, the fear of Margaery replacing her, but Cersei is smart enough to know there will be consequences for antagonizing them, and I never understand how she assesses those consequences.
Littlefinger in Kings Landing was awesome. I like the comparison of Littlefinger's triple or quadruple treachery to Cersei's head on, obvious manipulation, which I think was deliberate by the writers of the show. Littlefinger is an A player and Cersei is a B or C player. It was an unexpected but brilliant, ballsy move to out the existence of Sansa, and ties in perfectly with his scheming. He will never be caught as the source, all anyone will ever know is that Cersei found out. Littlefinger got Cersei to agree to not help the Boltons when they are attacked, which pretty much guarantees their defeat. Littlefinger has the only surviving Stark and Tully, he has the Vale, and he got Cersei to let him take all of it without sending single sword to stop him. And Sansa is the only one that has to pay the price by banging Ramsey.
The scene with Reek, Ramsey and Sansa was tough TV to watch, but there was really no avoiding once Sansa decided to be a player herself. I think that scene was as much about Sansa's internal conflict about what she has to do to survive. It wasn't a surprise to her that this was coming, and she had humiliated the kennel girl in the previous scene which showed that she knew she had to win Ramsey over.
The scene with Reek, Ramsey and Sansa was tough TV to watch, but there was really no avoiding once Sansa decided to be a player herself. I think that scene was as much about Sansa's internal conflict about what she has to do to survive. It wasn't a surprise to her that this was coming, and she had humiliated the kennel girl in the previous scene which showed that she knew she had to win Ramsey over.
ZooCougar said:It's almost like they have a good scriptwriter working the Arya/JonSnow/Cersei/Littlefinger stories and the bad scriptwriter doing everything else. The Sand Snakes are like something out of a Starz network show or something. Boooo.
At the risk of giving credit to Martin, outside of Littlefinger, those story arcs are fairly consistent with the books.
The sand snakes, not so much.
I dont want Sansa to be a badass. She is pathetic.I disagree about the consistency. Martin's handling of King's Landing is an utter mess from a plot standpoint, and the writers are repairing a lot of damage there. Martin's treatment of Sansa is even sillier. The show is a huge improvement on that part of the books. Stannis is much more interesting in the show than the books.
Ironically, the show is faithful to the books with the Sand Snakes, but it just isn't translating well to TV. Throwing Bronn and Jaime into Dorne hasn't worked at all since they got off the boat. I am hopeful the Dorne arc will improve now that everyone in Dorne is arrested. Some of the best scenes in the show have occurred in dungeons.
@ August: Sansa is not going to become a badass overnight. She is also smart enough to realize a frontal confrontation with Ramsey will not go well. She is more Littlefinger than Cersei or Danaerys. She is playing the long game, as is Arya. I also don't hold Sansa responsible for her father's death. Ned was playing the game so badly he basically deserved to die. Kaitlyn was marginally better, which didn't do her a lot of good. Renly tried to hand Ned the kingdom, and Ned wouldn't take it because he didn't want to hurt his dead friend's feelings.
I disagree about the consistency. Martin's handling of King's Landing is an utter mess from a plot standpoint, and the writers are repairing a lot of damage there. Martin's treatment of Sansa is even sillier. The show is a huge improvement on that part of the books. Stannis is much more interesting in the show than the books.
Ironically, the show is faithful to the books with the Sand Snakes, but it just isn't translating well to TV. Throwing Bronn and Jaime into Dorne hasn't worked at all since they got off the boat. I am hopeful the Dorne arc will improve now that everyone in Dorne is arrested. Some of the best scenes in the show have occurred in dungeons.
@ August: Sansa is not going to become a badass overnight. She is also smart enough to realize a frontal confrontation with Ramsey will not go well. She is more Littlefinger than Cersei or Danaerys. She is playing the long game, as is Arya. I also don't hold Sansa responsible for her father's death. Ned was playing the game so badly he basically deserved to die. Kaitlyn was marginally better, which didn't do her a lot of good. Renly tried to hand Ned the kingdom, and Ned wouldn't take it because he didn't want to hurt his dead friend's feelings.
nelsonmuntz said:I disagree about the consistency. Martin's handling of King's Landing is an utter mess from a plot standpoint, and the writers are repairing a lot of damage there. Martin's treatment of Sansa is even sillier. The show is a huge improvement on that part of the books. Stannis is much more interesting in the show than the books.
Ironically, the show is faithful to the books with the Sand Snakes, but it just isn't translating well to TV. Throwing Bronn and Jaime into Dorne hasn't worked at all since they got off the boat. I am hopeful the Dorne arc will improve now that everyone in Dorne is arrested. Some of the best scenes in the show have occurred in dungeons.
@ August: Sansa is not going to become a badass overnight. She is also smart enough to realize a frontal confrontation with Ramsey will not go well. She is more Littlefinger than Cersei or Danaerys. She is playing the long game, as is Arya. I also don't hold Sansa responsible for her father's death. Ned was playing the game so badly he basically deserved to die. Kaitlyn was marginally better, which didn't do her a lot of good. Renly tried to hand Ned the kingdom, and Ned wouldn't take it because he didn't want to hurt his dead friend's feelings.
It's getting close to a point with me where the show runners have just about used up all of the good will they earned. I will say that I have read the books and for the most part I did not have any major issues w/ the changes they decided to make. I was actually happy with several changes they made at the beginning of this season, but things have gone terribly wrong.
It seems they have lost the ability to build tension like they did in previous seasons. Something like the Sparrows and Faith Militant taking power in Kings Landing happened way too quickly without any foundation being laid. If I had not read the books this would have been really confusing to me.
I find the story line in Dorne to be similar. None of those characters have been fleshed out at all and the whole thing seems rushed. The episode last night w/ Bronn and Jamie meeting the sand snakes was laughably bad. From the general outline of events down to the dialogue and fight scene. Nothing redeeming about it.
I thought the story in Winterfell had been going fine, but the events after the wedding were just too much and borderline uncalled for.
They decided that books 4 and 5 would not make for great TV (I personally didn't hate book 4 like most people did), but by combining the two books into essentially one season I think they have made some serious mistakes. The plot doesn't seem to be flowing properly and the changes that at first seemed like good ideas are starting to become problematic. I am beginning to worry that they will not be able to right the ship.
Also - I hate that the Greyjoys have essentially been cut from the show at this point. Who wouldn't want to watch a bunch of pirates running around Westeros?
Agreed. I thought the whole Euron/Victarion feud would make for great TV. Definitely more appealing than the sand snakes. They also should not have cut out Griff/Young Griff. That's the most exciting subplot happening in the books and to avoid it on TV is crazy IMO.
It's getting close to a point with me where the show runners have just about used up all of the good will they earned. I will say that I have read the books and for the most part I did not have any major issues w/ the changes they decided to make. I was actually happy with several changes they made at the beginning of this season, but things have gone terribly wrong.
It seems they have lost the ability to build tension like they did in previous seasons. Something like the Sparrows and Faith Militant taking power in Kings Landing happened way too quickly without any foundation being laid. If I had not read the books this would have been really confusing to me.
I find the story line in Dorne to be similar. None of those characters have been fleshed out at all and the whole thing seems rushed. The episode last night w/ Bronn and Jamie meeting the sand snakes was laughably bad. From the general outline of events down to the dialogue and fight scene. Nothing redeeming about it.
I thought the story in Winterfell had been going fine, but the events after the wedding were just too much and borderline uncalled for.
They decided that books 4 and 5 would not make for great TV (I personally didn't hate book 4 like most people did), but by combining the two books into essentially one season I think they have made some serious mistakes. The plot doesn't seem to be flowing properly and the changes that at first seemed like good ideas are starting to become problematic. I am beginning to worry that they will not be able to right the ship.
Also - I hate that the Greyjoys have essentially been cut from the show at this point. Who wouldn't want to watch a bunch of pirates running around Westeros?
I read some of the backstory on Dorne. It might be the most interesting place in that world. It's too bad they didn't flesh it out more.
nelsonmuntz said:The Young Griff was a plot arc that works in a book and would be utterly forgettable in the show. I am disappointed that the Iron Islands didn't make the cut, and the show writers have some backfilling to do because the Iron Islands are kind of important.
The Internet has completely jumped the shark this week with its reaction to the Ramsey/Sansa scene. In this episode, Arya convinces a 13 year oldish girl to kill herself and two major characters are captured into slavery, but the last scene, where it is not completely clear that Sansa is not playing Ramsey, is the one that has the Internet up in arms. Frankly, the most inflammatory plotline is the dual thread gay-bashing/rant against religion undertone of the events in Kings Landing, but everyone focuses on Sansa.
I think this gets the most grief because it is not part of the original story so, the show runners chose it. It's not like their haven't been a dozen or more rape scenes in the show so far. The rebellion at Krasters Keep was a watch one time only event. Even the early Dany/Drogo scenes were rather cringe worthy, so I don't think this scene is all that much worse unless you see a replay of the Ramsey/Theon dynamic.
In that case I might employ the Breaking Bad Walt Jr. Contingency and use the fast forward button.