Frustrated By Quality of Officiating

[LouCardFan]

Louisville fan here, asking for opinions from what I believe is the most knowledgeable and engaged fan base in WBB.

Officials in every sport get criticized every year, both collectively and individually. It comes with the job. But as I look back on this WBB season I've seen too many outright officiating errors in high profile games to let it pass. Starting with the no-call in the Louisville-OSU game in November in Columbus when Dana Evans was hip checked at the end of regulation, ending with the no-call when Mabrey clearly fouled William in the open court,in clear view of everybody. (And there was that no-call in one of the Friday semifinal games that I'm not even going to mention any further.)

Is the officiating as bad as I, a relative newbie to the sport, think it is?

 

[Sonny44]

Louisville fan here, asking for opinions from what I believe is the most knowledgeable and engaged fan base in WBB.

Officials in every sport get criticized every year, both collectively and individually. It comes with the job. But as I look back on this WBB season I've seen too many outright officiating errors in high profile games to let it pass. Starting with the no-call in the Louisville-OSU game in November in Columbus when Dana Evans was hip checked at the end of regulation, ending with the no-call when Mabrey clearly fouled William in the open court,in clear view of everybody. (And there was that no-call in one of the Friday semifinal games that I'm not even going to mention any further.)

Is the officiating as bad as I, a relative newbie to the sport, think it is?

I'd say that poor officiating is the least of our problems now.

 

[BostonCanuck]

The officiating over the weekend was abysmal, to say the least. And I think a lot of fans throughout the country picked up on it, despite the loose (not lose ) "media blackout" on the matter. I just hope it gets acknowledged and addressed within whatever body or association is responsible for the officials. We'll probably never have any visibility into what if anything gets done about it, though.

 

[MilfordHusky]

In prior years, there was one place where the refs were worse than in WCBB: the WNBA.

Many of us feel your pain. The officiating was bizarre this weekend. Somehow, you guys managed to beat ND and the officials twice this year. The 33-point win was outside the range that officials can impact, but the ACC tourney game wasn’t.

BTW, I was at the Westin in Columbus last night. It was the Louisville HQ hotel. The staff said Jeff and his family were very nice.

 

[Paesano]

The refs are biased. The NCAA is corrupt.

 

[Woof 101]

Louisville fan here, asking for opinions from what I believe is the most knowledgeable and engaged fan base in WBB.

Officials in every sport get criticized every year, both collectively and individually. It comes with the job. But as I look back on this WBB season I've seen too many outright officiating errors in high profile games to let it pass. Starting with the no-call in the Louisville-OSU game in November in Columbus when Dana Evans was hip checked at the end of regulation, ending with the no-call when Mabrey clearly fouled William in the open court,in clear view of everybody. (And there was that no-call in one of the Friday semifinal games that I'm not even going to mention any further.)

Is the officiating as bad as I, a relative newbie to the sport, think it is?

I like your first sentence is a great way to start here.
Not sure I can be the one to give you the most insight as I am a tad upset with overall officiating in the game in general. I will say one of the best chuckles I got out of the tourney was your last game. Not sure who but on a breakaway layup for the Cards the announcers were gushing on a great strip by Miss St player and the replay showed nothing but all upper arm down to the lower arm and across the back of the hand before reaching the ball which the aggressive foul forced out. No call.

Not happy with 6 trips to the line for UConn and 23 for ND but I will not say that was the game. We did turn the ball over two times more than them but lead all other statistical categories. Back to the officials I do find it hard to understand how a moving pick is never called and is a constant in the woman's game. That and my favorite pet peeve the last two minutes of a game is called different than the previous 38. There is an intentional foul rule and it is never called. You see officials actually anticipate blowing the whistle because they are aware of the situation. Then blow the whistle because someone touched the ball handlers arm, a no call in the previous 38 minutes, but not considered intentional.
Officials are human and that can speak for itself. They are affected by personal ideology as well as a like or dislike for the crowd / team or more important the coach.
This is is related to football but an interesting observation on officials none the less.
Why refs swallow the whistle - CNN.com

 

[ASweet3781]

The refs are biased. The NCAA is corrupt.

It was almost like it was scripted from start to finish.

 

[ASweet3781]

Dee Kantner was fired from the NBA because she was the lowest ranked ref in the league. She's the best ref apparently in Women's College hoops.

The male ref last night gave Geno a technical a couple years ago against Notre Dame.

 

[BostonCanuck]

Dee Kantner was fired from the NBA because she was the lowest ranked ref in the league. She's the best ref apparently in Women's College hoops.

Is that true? And how are the refs "ranked"?

 

[warbler1055]

For the longest of time, I never wanted to blame the refs for impacting the games outcome. But this FF weekend changed my mind. The games were close, extremely close, refs mistakes of no calls, phantom calls decided games by 1 basket. I thought Mabrey hitting Williams no call could have changed the outcome of the NC game.

 

[Hoopz]

Everyone complains about the refs. What’s the solution?

 

[Shenandoah]

Louisville fan here, asking for opinions from what I believe is the most knowledgeable and engaged fan base in WBB.

Officials in every sport get criticized every year, both collectively and individually. It comes with the job. But as I look back on this WBB season I've seen too many outright officiating errors in high profile games to let it pass. Starting with the no-call in the Louisville-OSU game in November in Columbus when Dana Evans was hip checked at the end of regulation, ending with the no-call when Mabrey clearly fouled William in the open court,in clear view of everybody. (And there was that no-call in one of the Friday semifinal games that I'm not even going to mention any further.)

Is the officiating as bad as I, a relative newbie to the sport, think it is?

I can put up with bad officiating, as long as it goes both ways. This weekend, the officiating was biased, and that will push people away from the game, as it did for me and the NC game.

 

[HoopsFan21]

I did notice a distinct absence of complaints from Muffet about the huge disparity in foul shots that her team had against UConn. I wonder what changed from this huge disparity to the last one?

 

[the Q]

Everyone complains about the refs. What’s the solution?

I'm not gonna pretend to have all the answers, but here are a few:

1) NCAA needs to publicly lambast the 3 crews from this weekend and ban them all from working next year's FF. Right now. Period. Full Stop. No exceptions. You'd literally need people to die for them to even be considered for the gig.

Show that such incompetence cannot be handled.

2) 100% pure merit based officiating auditing program, no identity politics, and a systemic approach with multiple reviewers, perhaps even a live review and then someone watching tape after the fact.

3) Less subjectivity. Just an example of this that we saw a lot of this weekend: if a ball handler off-hand forearm makes contact with the defender's chest, it's an automatic offensive foul (there's a similar rule for the defender putting 2 hands on the ball handler).

4) Improved college specific training programs. Better mentoring with experienced officials helping the new ones.

5) Getting involved at the lower levels (HS, AAU, basically the local referee boards) to make it easier for officials to get a good start. Goes hand in hand with #4 about training, get them started early on training, even before they can be your problem.

6) Youth basketball parents and teachers need to chill out. I'm reading articles how like 70% of the new officials in south carolina quit after their first year because parents and coaches at low levels (sub varsity) are just completely out of control. Running off people early on is a way to make your talent pool shrink exponentially.

7) Ironic to 6...more people should get a whistle. I admit I'm tough on refs. But I wear the stripes and whistle. Reffing is hard, but watching those guys this weekend, I know guys on my board who run circles around what I just saw. We have some darn good officials doing CT state tournament games who could do at least the quality of job I just witnessed. Heck I worked with a D3 women's ref saturday at an AAU tournament. He was really freaking good. Considering what I saw the night before....this guy was stuck doing D3....see #2.

 

[the Q]

I can put up with bad officiating, as long as it goes both ways. This weekend, the officiating was biased, and that will push people away from the game, as it did for me and the NC game.

the biggest problem was how convenient it was.

Notre Dame goes down double digits in both games, and then magically these phantom calls showed up.

Even if it was just incompetence, it looked really bad.

The NCAA should be distancing themselves from such things, but they've doubled down on being wrong before (the ending to the Clemson/Alabama championship football game last year).

 

[HoopsFan21]

the biggest problem was how convenient it was.

Notre Dame goes down double digits in both games, and then magically these phantom calls showed up.

Even if it was just incompetence, it looked really bad.

The NCAA should be distancing themselves from such things, but they've doubled down on being wrong before (the ending to the Clemson/Alabama championship football game last year).

UConn was down double digits to ND in the first quarter, then went ahead by nine. Did the Huskies also get some help from the zebras to account for such a huge turnaround?

 

[the Q]

UConn was down double digits to ND in the first quarter, then went ahead by nine. Did the Huskies also get some help from the zebras to account for such a huge turnaround?

i don't know. I was listening to the first half on the radio on my drive home.

 

[bballnut90]

There are bad calls in all sports....being a ref is the most thankless job. The semis and finals definitely had a lot of no calls that came up. Off hand there was no call on Mabrey, Nurse appeared to travel on the layup to tie the game, Williams fouled Arike but there was no call, and there was no call on McCowan/Hines Allen in the semifinal. Four huge times where officials swallowed their whistle late in games. That said, one thing I've learned with basketball is you cannot expect a ref to make a call late, so it's best to be aggressive in those situations and go for it. Heck, the iconic MJ shot over Russell in the 98 NBA finals was a push off that didn't get called.

Also, in regards to the Morgan William/Mabrey situation....if they do call the foul, Morgan William goes to the line and most likely knocks down a pair. ND calls a timeout with 4-6 seconds left and likely runs the same type of play (look first to Shepard, then go to Arike) and chances are, you'd have the same result IMO.

There will be missed calls, and there will be bad calls made. Players and coaches have to recognize how the game is being reffed and adjust their play accordingly. I don't think any of the teams can solely blame the refs for losing games. UCONN had several bad turnovers late, Louisville missed an open putback at the end of regulation and Mississippi State missed chippies and free throws. Also, Fuerhing should not have slapped the floor so aggressively--whether you agreed with the tech call or not, an overly emotional reaction like that is always a gray area....she should've been smarter.

Overall though, I felt in each game that the team who won deserved it because they made plays to win the game. Players made incredible plays to win the game for their team. That's what makes a champion in my book.

I'll also add in that I was rooting for both Mississippi State and Notre Dame and was torn about who to go for in the championship, so I liked that it was decided based on an incredible buzzer beater. But if I were on the losing end of any of these games, I'd likely be royally po'd and bitter, so I get it.

 

[ASweet3781]

Is that true? And how are the refs "ranked"?

Professional Basketball: Pitt grad Kantner first woman referee to be fired by NBA

Says she was the lowest ranked official by coaches and general managers.

 

[willie99]

Louisville fan here, asking for opinions from what I believe is the most knowledgeable and engaged fan base in WBB.

Officials in every sport get criticized every year, both collectively and individually. It comes with the job. But as I look back on this WBB season I've seen too many outright officiating errors in high profile games to let it pass. Starting with the no-call in the Louisville-OSU game in November in Columbus when Dana Evans was hip checked at the end of regulation, ending with the no-call when Mabrey clearly fouled William in the open court,in clear view of everybody. (And there was that no-call in one of the Friday semifinal games that I'm not even going to mention any further.)

Is the officiating as bad as I, a relative newbie to the sport, think it is?

I thought you were on the short end of a horribly officiated game Saturday. They allowed the Miss St center to push the Cards out of her way, just moved them under the basket and grabbed rebounds. When the Cards pushed back, they were called for fouls. That was just ugly

McCowan getting called for just one foul was criminal, and your free throw disparity was as bad as ours. The only stat ND beat us at was free throws. Not shooting, not assists, not rebounds, not threes, not points in the paint, not points from the field, just free throws.

It gets frustrating, but we've been on the right side of that nonsense too

 

[Fishy]

The officiating this weekend was typically incompetent.

Friday night was bad.

Sunday, when a no-call on a tackle essentially took the national title from one team and gave it to another, was on another level.

It’s gross.

 

[Bigboote]

Is the officiating as bad as I, a relative newbie to the sport, think it is?

Short answer: It is as bad as you think it is. I just started watching a lot of WNBA last season, and as alluded to above, if anything, the W is worse. It's difficult to build a following for a sport when one of the things a new fan takes away is that either the rules or the officiating are bizarre.

 

[WLT1717]

Louisville fan here, asking for opinions from what I believe is the most knowledgeable and engaged fan base in WBB.

Officials in every sport get criticized every year, both collectively and individually. It comes with the job. But as I look back on this WBB season I've seen too many outright officiating errors in high profile games to let it pass. Starting with the no-call in the Louisville-OSU game in November in Columbus when Dana Evans was hip checked at the end of regulation, ending with the no-call when Mabrey clearly fouled William in the open court,in clear view of everybody. (And there was that no-call in one of the Friday semifinal games that I'm not even going to mention any further.)

Is the officiating as bad as I, a relative newbie to the sport, think it is?

I am not a Louisville fan. Having said that, I respect your WBB team. I thought the officiating in the semi vs Miss State was terrible, and feel like they played far too great a role in he outcome than they should have. The foul, and technical, were both outrageous. I won’t comment on the other games, though I have similar concerns. Just wanted you to know that this neutral observer felt for Sam, Coach W, and Cardinal Nation.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Professional Basketball: Pitt grad Kantner first woman referee to be fired by NBA

Says she was the lowest ranked official by coaches and general managers.

Thanks! I didn’t know that. The only thing that surprises me is that she was hired by the NBA to begin with.

 

[MilfordHusky]

There are bad calls in all sports....being a ref is the most thankless job. The semis and finals definitely had a lot of no calls that came up. Off hand there was no call on Mabrey, Nurse appeared to travel on the layup to tie the game, Williams fouled Arike but there was no call, and there was no call on McCowan/Hines Allen in the semifinal. Four huge times where officials swallowed their whistle late in games. That said, one thing I've learned with basketball is you cannot expect a ref to make a call late, so it's best to be aggressive in those situations and go for it. Heck, the iconic MJ shot over Russell in the 98 NBA finals was a push off that didn't get called.

Also, in regards to the Morgan William/Mabrey situation....if they do call the foul, Morgan William goes to the line and most likely knocks down a pair. ND calls a timeout with 4-6 seconds left and likely runs the same type of play (look first to Shepard, then go to Arike) and chances are, you'd have the same result IMO.

There will be missed calls, and there will be bad calls made. Players and coaches have to recognize how the game is being reffed and adjust their play accordingly. I don't think any of the teams can solely blame the refs for losing games. UCONN had several bad turnovers late, Louisville missed an open putback at the end of regulation and Mississippi State missed chippies and free throws. Also, Fuerhing should not have slapped the floor so aggressively--whether you agreed with the tech call or not, an overly emotional reaction like that is always a gray area....she should've been smarter.

Overall though, I felt in each game that the team who won deserved it because they made plays to win the game. Players made incredible plays to win the game for their team. That's what makes a champion in my book.

I'll also add in that I was rooting for both Mississippi State and Notre Dame and was torn about who to go for in the championship, so I liked that it was decided based on an incredible buzzer beater. But if I were on the losing end of any of these games, I'd likely be royally po'd and bitter, so I get it.

With regard to the Mabrey/William situation, did ND have a TO left to be able to advance the ball after a made FT? Would MSU have tried to intentionally miss the second one to advance the clock? TM would have been in the game and could have grabbed a rebound. Arike’s shot would have been much harder if ND was trailing as opposed to tied.

 

[bballnut90]

With regard to the Mabrey/William situation, did ND have a TO left to be able to advance the ball after a made FT? Would MSU have tried to intentionally miss the second one to advance the clock? TM would have been in the game and could have grabbed a rebound. Arike’s shot would have been much harder if ND was trailing as opposed to tied.

ND took a timeout with 3 seconds left so would’ve had one. William was around an 85% ft shooter if I’m not mistaken, and she has the clutch gene. She likely hits both. I don’t think there’s any way MSU intentionally misses with a full 5-6 seconds left. I do agree though that the pressure for ND to hit the shot would be much greater though.

 

[Shorty Dee]

It was almost like it was scripted from start to finish.

My husband has been saying this for years, and I have been saying...no it's not. After this weekend, I am starting to believe it. Not only did Notre Dame get special treatment with Shepherd, but the Refs helped them win the Final Four and advance to the Championship, and not only advance, but win the Championship. UConn's starters had more fouls than Notre Dame's players, and the same with Mississippi State's starters, and McCowan for Mississippi State actually fouled out. When Mabrey made the statement "Notre Dame is better than UConn", she can say that when you have people calling the game lopsided. From Muffet down to the players, they have an attitude of entitlement....like somebody owe them something.

 

[Siestakeyfan]

Is that true? And how are the refs "ranked"?

Keep games CLOSE and you get BIG games Advertisers DEMAND close games ! Overtime gets an A+ for refs

 

[mbr33ct]

Things may/will improve in a few more years. Seems like there is something in the works that will help in making correct calls with the help of technology.

How Mark Cuban hopes to change officiating & replay

 

[CardHack]

Also, in regards to the Morgan William/Mabrey situation....if they do call the foul, Morgan William goes to the line and most likely knocks down a pair. ND calls a timeout with 4-6 seconds left and likely runs the same type of play (look first to Shepard, then go to Arike) and chances are, you'd have the same result IMO.

There will be missed calls, and there will be bad calls made. Players and coaches have to recognize how the game is being reffed and adjust their play accordingly. I don't think any of the teams can solely blame the refs for losing games. UCONN had several bad turnovers late, Louisville missed an open putback at the end of regulation and Mississippi State missed chippies and free throws. Also, Fuerhing should not have slapped the floor so aggressively--whether you agreed with the tech call or not, an overly emotional reaction like that is always a gray area....she should've been smarter.

I have watched the replay of the flurry at midcourt of the Title Game multiple times and I swear I don't think MS State was in the bonus; minimally they get the ball side out at around midcourt (or does it advance?) with that four to six seconds on the clock. If you're old school of the 'the ball don't lie" pickup theory...Ogunbowale's shot is how the game should end. It would have been criminal if they swallowed the whistle as McCowan fouled and they allowed the snowbird basket for the win; in fact I'd almost demand some sort of federal inquiry. A commentator locally was saying if it's a foul at the end of the first half it should be a foul to end the game...and the play on Myesha Hines-Allen was a foul no matter how you slice it. Personally I had the biggest problem with the second she got levied because there was minimal at best contact, certainly compared to how Asia Durr was enduring running the baseline or off the ball or how we were bump jammed turning the corner on pick-and-rolls.

That said my impression of the six or seven games I attended in person for UofL this year coupled with watching innumberable games is that the officiating in WCBB is exceptionally inconsistent. Normally when you are in a league there are some generalities you can rely on from game-to-game in the men's game, i.e. the Big East was always hand-to-hand in the lane, the Big Ten was physical on the backboards, the whistle was tight in the ACC. In the women's game there isn't that generality; there are common officials but it doesn't seem like common crews.