Frustrated By Quality of Officiating

[hugefan]

Here we go again, Irish fans who seem to have to keep trying to make excuses because of the overwhelming number of calls that went their way and think anyone will buy their koolaid.

 

[the Q]

The NCAA looks really bad for not addressing this at all. Nothing specific, not even anything about the quality in general, and certainly not the right thing of banning all 3 crews from next year's FF.

Even the NBA, which is sports entertainment and not a real sport, addresses these when they get bad.

Officiating report: Five missed calls in last 13.5 seconds of Spurs-Thunder

In that link they admit to 5 calls in the last 13 seconds that NBA level officials missed. Really not one of them was anything less than obvious.

Actually the article is misleading, if you read the full report it's more than 5. But still, crazy that they admitted all that. Props to Silver. David Stern never would've let this stuff fly.

 

[hugefan]

Maybe they had something to do with it and don’t want to bring attention to it but who knows by not addressing it, the facts will always remain, Notre Dame got way too many calls in both of their games. And Louisville were also effed.

 

[the Q]

Maybe they had something to do with it and don’t want to bring attention to it but who knows by not addressing it, the facts will always remain, Notre Dame got way too many calls in both of their games. And Louisville were also effed.

The women's game seems to be suffering from the same problem the men's game had 5-8 years ago.

You were not getting the same game called in different regions of the country.

Big East teams would leave the BE and get killed by Pac12 or Big12 refs who would call a much tighter game than B10 or BE officials. The NCAA worked hard the last few years to take that away, and honestly I think they've done a really great job with that.

But it hasn't' translated to the women's game. Especially once you see the FF.

They let ND and Miss St be more physical with UConn than any other games I saw the last 2 years. And it's really not close. Which is why when you see phantom fouls going against UConn it just becomes more frustrating than ever.

 

[Paesano]

1 comment on officiating:

Teams are not automatically entitled to an equal number of free throws. 23 foul shots to 6 is not in itself indicative of bad or biased refereeing. As has been noted by many, ND was more aggressive off the dribble and drives are typically more likely to result in free throws than jump shots.

If you feel that individual calls were wrong, you're certainly entitled to that opinion. But citing the "23 to 6" as though that stat alone proves anything is strange to me.

Take this garbage to the ND board and stay there! Why do we let fans from other teams litter our boards and irritate our fans? I don't get it.

To reiterate, we didn't fail to draw fouls because were weren't driving. We stopped driving because the fouls weren't being called. How ignorant is it to think that a team as talented as UConn forgot to drive?

And as much as ND was being aggresive on offense, they were even more aggressive on defense. How does the more aggressive defensive team end up with a 23-6 FT advantage? Please. The refs are biased and always have been. Same goes for Duke on the men's side. To argue otherwise is ignorant, delusional or both.

 

[Paesano]

Ten of ND’s free throws came in the last two minutes of regulation or the last two minutes of overtime. Crazy as it sounds, maybe the Uconn players were trying to foul the ND players on purpose. That might be more of a coaching problem than a referee problem.

You provide no concrete examples. You are wrong and it would be great if you also left and never came back.

 

[Orangutan]

Take this garbage to the ND board and stay there! Why do we let fans from other teams litter our boards and irritate our fans? I don't get it.

This board has welcomed visiting fans long before I started posting here. I can't speak to why that policy is the way it is.

Believe or not, I try not to irritate UConn fans with my posts. This is obviously a sensitive issue right now. I thought my original post was mild enough that it would not prove offensive to UConn fans. Clearly I was wrong and should have refrained from posting in this thread.

 

[BostonCanuck]

The NCAA looks really bad for not addressing this at all. Nothing specific, not even anything about the quality in general, and certainly not the right thing of banning all 3 crews from next year's FF.

Even the NBA, which is sports entertainment and not a real sport, addresses these when they get bad.

Officiating report: Five missed calls in last 13.5 seconds of Spurs-Thunder

In that link they admit to 5 calls in the last 13 seconds that NBA level officials missed. Really not one of them was anything less than obvious.

Actually the article is misleading, if you read the full report it's more than 5. But still, crazy that they admitted all that. Props to Silver. David Stern never would've let this stuff fly.

This is a perfect example of the kind of visibility and self-review that officiating in the women's game (both college and pro) seems to lack. I mean, the officiating bodies themselves must be doing some kind of work behind the scenes, but how would we know?

The whole culture around women's officiating seems to be some kind of a don't ask, don't tell policy, with coaches actually not allowed to comment or raise concerns even in good form, lest they be subject to disciplinary action or fines. And I know one thing. Issues that get swept under the rug rarely get solved.

 

[Drivefor12]

I respect everyone's right to have their opinions, and we all certainly have them Probably, the truth of how bad the Refs were is in the middle as it's really hard to not let our own status as fans influence us somewhat. Objectively, I'll say ND was more aggressive on offense and defense and I can see them getting a few more calls. That being said, they are just as aggressive defensively, and there is no way that UCONN should have only been to the line 6 times.

Refs are human and I get they make mistakes, but some mistakes just can't be made, such as the fourth foul on Samuelson. It was a game changer. Even though UCONN was ahead at the time, I knew the game was now lost as it was clear Samuelson would now be a turnstile for fear of picking up number 5. It was especially frustrating because, as someone mentioned it above, ND was getting the calls (all weekend) then they would jump into players (and in Samuelson's case, was established in their position, not jumping, and had her arms straight up). That should have been a no call.

I do feel ND got many favorable calls, and when they win games by 2 and 3 points respectively, the officiating did influence the result. But I will also give credit where credit is due. Despite the hostile officiating towards them, UCONN and MS still could have won if they made one more shot and turned the ball over a couple fewer times. They didn't. ND did hit the shots at the end of each game to win it and did come back from double-digit deficits each game. They did get done what the other teams had a chance to do but didn't.

 

[BostonCanuck]

This game went south on the Huskies very quickly in the latter half of the forth quarter.

Lou picks up her forth foul at 4:55, right before the media timeout. Z is already on the floor. Geno elects to keep Lou in the game, rather than sending in Crystal. At this point, Kia and Gabby both have three fouls.

Pheesa makes a layup and one. Huskies are up five. But then on two consecutive possessions, a ND player drives right past Lou for the uncontested layup. It's a one point game.

Geno correctly calls the timeout, and apparently decides to coach Lou through it instead of taking her out of the game. The teams go back and forth. Unfortunately, UConn doesn't execute particularly well, except for the last-second steal and score by Nurse to force overtime. (And for those who believe that Kia traveled, the refs have consistently not made that call on the breakaway to the rim throughout women's Division I for at least the last couple of seasons.)

In overtime, The refs ring up the Huskies for three more defensive fouls! Arike makes a layup after driving right by Gabby, who now has four. Z misses a turn-around jumper from about five feet, then at the other end fails to defend Shephard, who cuts down low for another easy layup. So when Geno does put Crystal into the game, it's Z who heads to the bench instead of Lou.

Nurse hits a clutch three, and Crystal makes two big jumpers during overtime. But Arike makes an even bigger shot. Gabby delivers an unbelievable inbound pass that travels three-quarters the length of the court and into the hands of Lou. But Lou has less than a second... she shanks the layup off the back iron, and the Huskies have run out of time.

Pretty hard to fault Geno, given the unfortunate sequence of events that occurred so rapidly, so late. But from the time that Lou picks up her forth until the the end of overtime, a 10-minute span, she never leaves the game, nor does she go on to get another point, but does get one assist. Also during that span, the Huskies settle almost exclusively for outside jumpers, make eight of their 17 shots, and turn the ball over three times. Meanwhile, ND gets to the hoop four times for easy layups, due to Lou and Gabby being in foul trouble, and a missed defensive assignment by Z.

 

[hugefan]

I respect everyone's right to have their opinions, and we all certainly have them Probably, the truth of how bad the Refs were is in the middle as it's really hard to not let our own status as fans influence us somewhat. Objectively, I'll say ND was more aggressive on offense and defense and I can see them getting a few more calls. That being said, they are just as aggressive defensively, and there is no way that UCONN should have only been to the line 6 times.

Refs are human and I get they make mistakes, but some mistakes just can't be made, such as the fourth foul on Samuelson. It was a game changer. Even though UCONN was ahead at the time, I knew the game was now lost as it was clear Samuelson would now be a turnstile for fear of picking up number 5. It was especially frustrating because, as someone mentioned it above, ND was getting the calls (all weekend) then they would jump into players (and in Samuelson's case, was established in their position, not jumping, and had her arms straight up). That should have been a no call.

I do feel ND got many favorable calls, and when they win games by 2 and 3 points respectively, the officiating did influence the result. But I will also give credit where credit is due. Despite the hostile officiating towards them, UCONN and MS still could have won if they made one more shot and turned the ball over a couple fewer times. They didn't. ND did hit the shots at the end of each game to win it and did come back from double-digit deficits each game. They did get done what the other teams had a chance to do but didn't.

Not just that call, there were several and they were egregious, the charge where Nelson was out of bounds, that is a block not even debatable as half her body and her whole foot were out of bounds. The dive in front of Kia by the worst dispicable player to play the game right now, she is a disgrace to the game Of basketball and she would never step foot on the floor with some of the crap she pulls but only for Muffet the whining most desperate coach award winner in the NCAA who got her ass kicked by Walz then tried to shame the ACC for giving that “other player” an award because she was jealous she didn’t get her woe is me COY award from 1 outlet.

 

[wallman]

I forgot about that. I wish Jeff had sat calmly in his press conference and called her out as she should have been for being a poor sport and jealous as then she would have been exposed before the tournament and the whining may have had less affect.

 

[Irishfan]

You provide no concrete examples. You are wrong and it would be great if you also left and never came back.

Look at the game film. 10 free throws for ND in the last two minutes of regulation, and the last two minutes of overtime. You can’t blame the refs when these are basically intentional fouls.

 

[Paesano]

Look at the game film. 10 free throws for ND in the last two minutes of regulation, and the last two minutes of overtime. You can’t blame the refs when these are basically intentional fouls.

You are still wrong and still need to go away. Provide examples of intentional fouls. You can't make a blanket statement like you did because it isn't always true. In a close game there are few to no intentional fouls. And, again, the bigger problem is not what was called on UConn but what wasn't called on ND...ALL GAME. The refs were biased and bad. PERIOD. END OF STORY. You are wrong, always have been wrong, always will be wrong.

 

[wallman]

Look at the game film. 10 free throws for ND in the last two minutes of regulation, and the last two minutes of overtime. You can’t blame the refs when these are basically intentional fouls.

Sorry you are wrong.

 

[RSHERMVIKES]

This is a perfect example of the kind of visibility and self-review that officiating in the women's game (both college and pro) seems to lack. I mean, the officiating bodies themselves must be doing some kind of work behind the scenes, but how would we know?

The whole culture around women's officiating seems to be some kind of a don't ask, don't tell policy, with coaches actually not allowed to comment or raise concerns even in good form, lest they be subject to disciplinary action or fines. And I know one thing. Issues that get swept under the rug rarely get solved.

BostonCanuck- - - -The last year the Big East Tournament was at the XL/Hartford Civic Center, I ran into Patty Coyle, then HC of the NY Liberty, scouting the Tournament for possible draft picks. I asked her how WNBA coaches and players don't go berserk with the insane referees calls! She said the coaches and players cannot question any calls as the ones raising the biggest fuss are hounded the rest of the season by the other refs for opening their mouths! Pay back is a truly a Bi---ch and it's not worth the effort! But sometimes it is so bad the coach or player will explode, Diana Taurasi is one of the loudest of the player complainers and she usually leads the WNBA in TF's!
One problem is the people evaluating the refs in WCBB and the WNBA are ex-refs that worked with their buddies for 20+ years and now have to evaluate them! Nothing gets done!

 

[BostonCanuck]

BostonCanuck- - - -The last year the Big East Tournament was at the XL/Hartford Civic Center, I ran into Patty Coyle, then HC of the NY Liberty, scouting the Tournament for possible draft picks. I asked her how WNBA coaches and players don't go berserk with the insane referees calls! She said the coaches and players cannot question any calls as the ones raising the biggest fuss are hounded the rest of the season by the other refs for opening their mouths! Pay back is a truly a Bi---ch and it's not worth the effort! But sometimes it is so bad the coach or player will explode, Diana Taurasi is one of the loudest of the player complainers and she usually leads the WNBA in TF's!
One problem is the people evaluating the refs in WCBB and the WNBA are ex-refs that worked with their buddies for 20+ years and now have to evaluate them! Nothing gets done!

Great story! And I can't say I'm all that surprised. I used to think DT's behavior with respect to the officials was over the top. But she's had to deal with this clown show for 15 years now, so how can you really blame her?

Maybe there just isn't the budget to implement some kind of visible review process in women's basketball officiating. But how can you not be put off by a system that essentially operates like this:

And by the way, here's another example of a sport recently embracing accountability in this area. It can be done!
Buck was right: Umpires say they missed call in O's-Yanks
​

 

[Irishfan]

Sorry you are wrong.

According to the ESPN play-by-play section of the game review, I am right. Actually, there were 4 ND free throws in the last 1:32 of regulation and 6 ND free throws in the last 1:40 of overtime.

 

[Irishfan]

You are still wrong and still need to go away. Provide examples of intentional fouls. You can't make a blanket statement like you did because it isn't always true. In a close game there are few to no intentional fouls. And, again, the bigger problem is not what was called on UConn but what wasn't called on ND...ALL GAME. The refs were biased and bad. PERIOD. END OF STORY. You are wrong, always have been wrong, always will be wrong.

So am I wrong about the number of fouls called during the last two minutes of regulation and overtime. Or wrong because the Uconn players weren’t sent out to foul to get the ball back.

 

[the Q]

Would it make sense to review the number of FTs shot by the UConn and ND in the past several meetings? Because there aren't many games where ND has an advantage.

the amount of phantom fouls Ogumbawale drew was off the charts.

at least half should've gotten offensive with her go-to move: the stiff arm.

 

[ivrytontusker]

Would it make sense to review the number of FTs shot by the UConn and ND in the past several meetings? Because there aren't many games where ND has an advantage.

April 2014: 15/10 UConn
December 2014: 21/11 UConn
April 2015: 8/7 ND
December 2015: 24/10 UConn
December 2016: 20/8 UConn
December 2017: 18/11 UConn
March 2018: 23/6 ND

 

[Irishfan]

Would it make sense to review the number of FTs shot by the UConn and ND in the past several meetings? Because there aren't many games where ND has an advantage.

April 2014: 15/10 UConn
December 2014: 21/11 UConn
April 2015: 8/7 ND
December 2015: 24/10 UConn
December 2016: 20/8 UConn
December 2017: 18/11 UConn
March 2018: 23/6 ND

So it appears that the refs have been favoring Uconn for years.

 

[trisailin]

@Paesano: Please cut out the requests to have people leave the discussion. It only is making you look like a jerk.
It would be nice to try to keep The Boneyard civil.

 

[Bigpetunia]

To the ND fans who follow the discussions on our forum and who comment here: Your contributions are appreciated here...well, they are by this ardent UConn fan anyway. Please don't go anywhere. Our Board has long been plagued by the presence of self-appointed arbiters of what other folks should and should not post. Ignore them. You liven up our discussions, and it's fun to have you here. We Husky fans have long enjoyed fun at your expense. The fact that the tables were turned by a bucket this year justifiably gives you the right to return the favor...for now. The refs were not biased. The Huskies blew a game they should have won...and that, and nothing else, is the end of the story!

 

[Roger G]

The refereeing in Women's basketball is awful, and there is no total solution as it is pretty bad in basketball just about everywhere. The game is very hard to referee as it requires lightning fast decisions and has to take into considerations a lot of factors. Not everything can be called, no matter how much I have heard calls for that to be done. But the best solution is in my opinion to get rid of the rule that requires a player to leave the game after a certain number of fouls. Give the player fouled an extra shot if the person fouling is over the limit of fouls. That way you wouldn't have the ridiculousness of Katie Lou letting people go right by her so she doesn't foul out. UConn would have won the game if it weren't for that absurd requirement. It gives the refs far too much power. Teams target the most important player on the other team and if the refs help them out, it increases their chances of winning the game tremendously. It is one of the most outlandish rules in sport. You don't foul out in baseball, you don't foul out in football, and you don't even foul out in hockey. It's nutty.