Frustrated By Quality of Officiating | Page 3 | The Boneyard

Frustrated By Quality of Officiating

Are you backtracking? Or you just don't like that I posted out the discrepancies of your team SMH

I'm trying to clarify my thoughts.

I think they are consistent with the two points I was trying to make (and apparently failing) in my first post in this thread.

1) A free-throw discrepancy does not inherently signal biased refereeing
2) I believe there were many bad calls made/calls missed (which is what I meant by "If you feel that individual calls were wrong, you're certainly entitled to that opinion")
 
I'm trying to clarify my thoughts. I think they are consistent with the two points I was trying to make (and apparently failing). 1) A free-throw discrepancy does not inherently signal biased refereeing; 2)I believe there were many bad calls made/calls missed (which is what I meant by "If you feel that individual calls were wrong, you're certainly entitled to that opinion")

I know I am entitled to my opinion, I don't need your permission.
 
I know I am entitled to my opinion, I don't need your permission.

....?

I was simply quoting my earlier post, which was not directed at you (or anyone) specifically.
 
....?

I was simply quoting my earlier post, which was not directed at you (or anyone) specifically.

When you quote my post you are directing it at me. When you a ND fan says I am biased and have a tone you are "coming at me bro". I will continue to give my opinion without your permission
 
When you quote my post you are directing it at me. When you a ND fan says I am biased and have a tone you are "coming at me bro". I will continue to give my opinion without your permission

This statement: "If you feel that individual calls were wrong, you're certainly entitled to that opinion" was from my original post in this thread, which did not quote you or anyone else
 
This statement: "If you feel that individual calls were wrong, you're certainly entitled to that opinion" was from my original post in this thread, which did not quote you or anyone else

And you quoted me in your last post, so what s your point. You didn't like what I had to say and called me biased and having a tone. Funny considering we are talking about your team and you are trying to say that I have a tone, hit a nerve much.
 
.-.
And you quoted me in your last post, so what s your point. You didn't like what I had to say and called me biased and having a tone. Funny considering we are talking about your team and you are trying to say that I have a tone, hit a nerve much.

I didn't say you "had a tone". I was referring to the "tone" of your post in a literary sense.
upload_2018-4-3_14-2-4.png


This whole exchange is now just one miscommunication after another to the point I'm embarrassed. If we hadn't been quoting each other, I would have deleted all my posts already.
 
I didn't say you "had a tone". I was referring to the "tone" of your post in a literary sense.
View attachment 30386

This whole exchange is now just one miscommunication after another.

So keep it going, I have all day. What part of 'I had a little giggle" didn't you like or was it that I included your team in a series of problems with reffing or that I called your coach out for whining about problems that all teams have and using it for sympathy. Or just that I have an opinion that disagrees and I am allowed that opinion whether you like it or not.

How many times do we hear the press call out Uconn for being too good, that needs to be called out, why not call out whining and poor sportsmanship when coaches make comments like "that other player" as they did with JPM.
 
.-.
I like your first sentence is a great way to start here. :)
Not sure I can be the one to give you the most insight as I am a tad upset with overall officiating in the game in general. I will say one of the best chuckles I got out of the tourney was your last game. Not sure who but on a breakaway layup for the Cards the announcers were gushing on a great strip by Miss St player and the replay showed nothing but all upper arm down to the lower arm and across the back of the hand before reaching the ball which the aggressive foul forced out. No call. :confused:

Not happy with 6 trips to the line for UConn and 23 for ND but I will not say that was the game. We did turn the ball over two times more than them but lead all other statistical categories. Back to the officials I do find it hard to understand how a moving pick is never called and is a constant in the woman's game. That and my favorite pet peeve the last two minutes of a game is called different than the previous 38. There is an intentional foul rule and it is never called. You see officials actually anticipate blowing the whistle because they are aware of the situation. Then blow the whistle because someone touched the ball handlers arm, a no call in the previous 38 minutes, but not considered intentional.
Officials are human and that can speak for itself. They are affected by personal ideology as well as a like or dislike for the crowd / team or more important the coach.
This is is related to football but an interesting observation on officials none the less.
Why refs swallow the whistle - CNN.com
I thought both strips looked good. Morgan on Fuehring (HUGE play) and someone stripped Durr going up. Durr is easy to strip when on her way up to the hoop. Ball gets huge. Also, she has a tendency to dribble high right handed on the move. What’s the violation call when a player has a high dribble?
 
Last edited:
Officiating is a tough job. I would like to see the oficiating team look at the defensive vertical space of a player. Too many players are lowering their shoulders as a fulback, or jumping into the defender as the defender is trying to stand straight with their hands up. Fouls are called 99% of the time. We see it replayed over and over as we watch the womens game. I don’t have a bone to pick (really), but, one hero guard for ND is a great example of how to jump into a defender and go to the free throw line.
 
I posted this on the ND vs UCONN game thread but it applies here also:

I've said many times that WBB, both college and the WNBA have the worst refs of any college sport!
In the UCONN vs ND semi finals of the 2018 Final Four the chosen referees were, Jason Jones, Michael McConnell, and Karen Preato! WHO??????????
You would think that the Final Four would use the most experienced refs available. Where were: Dee Kantner, Lisa Mattingly, Bryan Enterline, Eric Brewton, Tom Danaher, Maj Forsberg, Cameron Inouye, Denise Brooks, or Tina Napier, among the most veteran officials! Referees that have worked the biggest games, that are familiar with the 2 teams and worked games going down to the last second! ND went to the line 23 times to UCONN's 6, if the veteran officials were working the game would the difference in the number of free throws have been different? Both teams got burned by bad ref calls! But UCONN got hurt worse by having 3 of their best players called for 4 fouls each, Gabby Williams, Kia Nurse, & Katie Lou Samuelson, which certainly affected their defensive style of play late in the game!
I think the inexperience of the chosen referees had something to do with the outcome!

Ten of ND’s free throws came in the last two minutes of regulation or the last two minutes of overtime. Crazy as it sounds, maybe the Uconn players were trying to foul the ND players on purpose. That might be more of a coaching problem than a referee problem.
 
Here we go again, Irish fans who seem to have to keep trying to make excuses because of the overwhelming number of calls that went their way and think anyone will buy their koolaid.
 
The NCAA looks really bad for not addressing this at all. Nothing specific, not even anything about the quality in general, and certainly not the right thing of banning all 3 crews from next year's FF.

Even the NBA, which is sports entertainment and not a real sport, addresses these when they get bad.

Officiating report: Five missed calls in last 13.5 seconds of Spurs-Thunder

In that link they admit to 5 calls in the last 13 seconds that NBA level officials missed. Really not one of them was anything less than obvious.

Actually the article is misleading, if you read the full report it's more than 5. But still, crazy that they admitted all that. Props to Silver. David Stern never would've let this stuff fly.
 
Maybe they had something to do with it and don’t want to bring attention to it but who knows by not addressing it, the facts will always remain, Notre Dame got way too many calls in both of their games. And Louisville were also effed.
 
.-.
Maybe they had something to do with it and don’t want to bring attention to it but who knows by not addressing it, the facts will always remain, Notre Dame got way too many calls in both of their games. And Louisville were also effed.

The women's game seems to be suffering from the same problem the men's game had 5-8 years ago.

You were not getting the same game called in different regions of the country.

Big East teams would leave the BE and get killed by Pac12 or Big12 refs who would call a much tighter game than B10 or BE officials. The NCAA worked hard the last few years to take that away, and honestly I think they've done a really great job with that.

But it hasn't' translated to the women's game. Especially once you see the FF.

They let ND and Miss St be more physical with UConn than any other games I saw the last 2 years. And it's really not close. Which is why when you see phantom fouls going against UConn it just becomes more frustrating than ever.
 
1 comment on officiating:

Teams are not automatically entitled to an equal number of free throws. 23 foul shots to 6 is not in itself indicative of bad or biased refereeing. As has been noted by many, ND was more aggressive off the dribble and drives are typically more likely to result in free throws than jump shots.

If you feel that individual calls were wrong, you're certainly entitled to that opinion. But citing the "23 to 6" as though that stat alone proves anything is strange to me.
Take this garbage to the ND board and stay there! Why do we let fans from other teams litter our boards and irritate our fans? I don't get it.

To reiterate, we didn't fail to draw fouls because were weren't driving. We stopped driving because the fouls weren't being called. How ignorant is it to think that a team as talented as UConn forgot to drive?

And as much as ND was being aggresive on offense, they were even more aggressive on defense. How does the more aggressive defensive team end up with a 23-6 FT advantage? Please. The refs are biased and always have been. Same goes for Duke on the men's side. To argue otherwise is ignorant, delusional or both.
 
Ten of ND’s free throws came in the last two minutes of regulation or the last two minutes of overtime. Crazy as it sounds, maybe the Uconn players were trying to foul the ND players on purpose. That might be more of a coaching problem than a referee problem.
You provide no concrete examples. You are wrong and it would be great if you also left and never came back.
 
Take this garbage to the ND board and stay there! Why do we let fans from other teams litter our boards and irritate our fans? I don't get it.

This board has welcomed visiting fans long before I started posting here. I can't speak to why that policy is the way it is.

Believe or not, I try not to irritate UConn fans with my posts. This is obviously a sensitive issue right now. I thought my original post was mild enough that it would not prove offensive to UConn fans. Clearly I was wrong and should have refrained from posting in this thread.
 
The NCAA looks really bad for not addressing this at all. Nothing specific, not even anything about the quality in general, and certainly not the right thing of banning all 3 crews from next year's FF.

Even the NBA, which is sports entertainment and not a real sport, addresses these when they get bad.

Officiating report: Five missed calls in last 13.5 seconds of Spurs-Thunder

In that link they admit to 5 calls in the last 13 seconds that NBA level officials missed. Really not one of them was anything less than obvious.

Actually the article is misleading, if you read the full report it's more than 5. But still, crazy that they admitted all that. Props to Silver. David Stern never would've let this stuff fly.
This is a perfect example of the kind of visibility and self-review that officiating in the women's game (both college and pro) seems to lack. I mean, the officiating bodies themselves must be doing some kind of work behind the scenes, but how would we know?

The whole culture around women's officiating seems to be some kind of a don't ask, don't tell policy, with coaches actually not allowed to comment or raise concerns even in good form, lest they be subject to disciplinary action or fines. And I know one thing. Issues that get swept under the rug rarely get solved.
 
Last edited:
I respect everyone's right to have their opinions, and we all certainly have them :) Probably, the truth of how bad the Refs were is in the middle as it's really hard to not let our own status as fans influence us somewhat. Objectively, I'll say ND was more aggressive on offense and defense and I can see them getting a few more calls. That being said, they are just as aggressive defensively, and there is no way that UCONN should have only been to the line 6 times.

Refs are human and I get they make mistakes, but some mistakes just can't be made, such as the fourth foul on Samuelson. It was a game changer. Even though UCONN was ahead at the time, I knew the game was now lost as it was clear Samuelson would now be a turnstile for fear of picking up number 5. It was especially frustrating because, as someone mentioned it above, ND was getting the calls (all weekend) then they would jump into players (and in Samuelson's case, was established in their position, not jumping, and had her arms straight up). That should have been a no call.

I do feel ND got many favorable calls, and when they win games by 2 and 3 points respectively, the officiating did influence the result. But I will also give credit where credit is due. Despite the hostile officiating towards them, UCONN and MS still could have won if they made one more shot and turned the ball over a couple fewer times. They didn't. ND did hit the shots at the end of each game to win it and did come back from double-digit deficits each game. They did get done what the other teams had a chance to do but didn't.
 
Last edited:
.-.
This game went south on the Huskies very quickly in the latter half of the forth quarter.

Lou picks up her forth foul at 4:55, right before the media timeout. Z is already on the floor. Geno elects to keep Lou in the game, rather than sending in Crystal. At this point, Kia and Gabby both have three fouls.

Pheesa makes a layup and one. Huskies are up five. But then on two consecutive possessions, a ND player drives right past Lou for the uncontested layup. It's a one point game.

Geno correctly calls the timeout, and apparently decides to coach Lou through it instead of taking her out of the game. The teams go back and forth. Unfortunately, UConn doesn't execute particularly well, except for the last-second steal and score by Nurse to force overtime. (And for those who believe that Kia traveled, the refs have consistently not made that call on the breakaway to the rim throughout women's Division I for at least the last couple of seasons.)

In overtime, The refs ring up the Huskies for three more defensive fouls! Arike makes a layup after driving right by Gabby, who now has four. Z misses a turn-around jumper from about five feet, then at the other end fails to defend Shephard, who cuts down low for another easy layup. So when Geno does put Crystal into the game, it's Z who heads to the bench instead of Lou.

Nurse hits a clutch three, and Crystal makes two big jumpers during overtime. But Arike makes an even bigger shot. Gabby delivers an unbelievable inbound pass that travels three-quarters the length of the court and into the hands of Lou. But Lou has less than a second... she shanks the layup off the back iron, and the Huskies have run out of time.

Pretty hard to fault Geno, given the unfortunate sequence of events that occurred so rapidly, so late. But from the time that Lou picks up her forth until the the end of overtime, a 10-minute span, she never leaves the game, nor does she go on to get another point, but does get one assist. Also during that span, the Huskies settle almost exclusively for outside jumpers, make eight of their 17 shots, and turn the ball over three times. Meanwhile, ND gets to the hoop four times for easy layups, due to Lou and Gabby being in foul trouble, and a missed defensive assignment by Z.
 
Last edited:
I respect everyone's right to have their opinions, and we all certainly have them :) Probably, the truth of how bad the Refs were is in the middle as it's really hard to not let our own status as fans influence us somewhat. Objectively, I'll say ND was more aggressive on offense and defense and I can see them getting a few more calls. That being said, they are just as aggressive defensively, and there is no way that UCONN should have only been to the line 6 times.

Refs are human and I get they make mistakes, but some mistakes just can't be made, such as the fourth foul on Samuelson. It was a game changer. Even though UCONN was ahead at the time, I knew the game was now lost as it was clear Samuelson would now be a turnstile for fear of picking up number 5. It was especially frustrating because, as someone mentioned it above, ND was getting the calls (all weekend) then they would jump into players (and in Samuelson's case, was established in their position, not jumping, and had her arms straight up). That should have been a no call.

I do feel ND got many favorable calls, and when they win games by 2 and 3 points respectively, the officiating did influence the result. But I will also give credit where credit is due. Despite the hostile officiating towards them, UCONN and MS still could have won if they made one more shot and turned the ball over a couple fewer times. They didn't. ND did hit the shots at the end of each game to win it and did come back from double-digit deficits each game. They did get done what the other teams had a chance to do but didn't.

Not just that call, there were several and they were egregious, the charge where Nelson was out of bounds, that is a block not even debatable as half her body and her whole foot were out of bounds. The dive in front of Kia by the worst dispicable player to play the game right now, she is a disgrace to the game Of basketball and she would never step foot on the floor with some of the crap she pulls but only for Muffet the whining most desperate coach award winner in the NCAA who got her ass kicked by Walz then tried to shame the ACC for giving that “other player” an award because she was jealous she didn’t get her woe is me COY award from 1 outlet.
 
I forgot about that. I wish Jeff had sat calmly in his press conference and called her out as she should have been for being a poor sport and jealous as then she would have been exposed before the tournament and the whining may have had less affect.
 
You provide no concrete examples. You are wrong and it would be great if you also left and never came back.

Look at the game film. 10 free throws for ND in the last two minutes of regulation, and the last two minutes of overtime. You can’t blame the refs when these are basically intentional fouls.
 
Look at the game film. 10 free throws for ND in the last two minutes of regulation, and the last two minutes of overtime. You can’t blame the refs when these are basically intentional fouls.
You are still wrong and still need to go away. Provide examples of intentional fouls. You can't make a blanket statement like you did because it isn't always true. In a close game there are few to no intentional fouls. And, again, the bigger problem is not what was called on UConn but what wasn't called on ND...ALL GAME. The refs were biased and bad. PERIOD. END OF STORY. You are wrong, always have been wrong, always will be wrong.
 
Look at the game film. 10 free throws for ND in the last two minutes of regulation, and the last two minutes of overtime. You can’t blame the refs when these are basically intentional fouls.

Sorry you are wrong.
 
.-.

Forum statistics

Threads
168,479
Messages
4,577,189
Members
10,488
Latest member
husky62


Top Bottom