Francessa riveting radio; killing Paterno

[upstater]

What I find lacks credibility is Paterno's insistence that he did not learn any details of what McQueary saw in the shower. If I heard this story involving a good friend and coaching colleague for 30 years I would want to know EXACTLY what the person saw. I just don't find it credible that Paterno listens to an assistant say he saw "something inappropriate" or whatever and not share details. Anyone would want to know details not because they would enjoy hearing them but to affirm the story of the eye witness to the crime, given how incredible the story is.

Public opinion is asserting that even if Paterno did not learn any details, the incident was gruesome and criminal enough that Paterno should have told the AD when Paterno reported what McQueary saw to call the cops and to let him know when they arrive because I want to talk to them too. And if the cops didn't show up within an hour Paterno would call them himself. We don't know a lot about this episode but I am wondering if Paterno ever followed up with the AD or finance guy who both heard the story to find out what was being done to get to the bottom of the issue.

Just to add one other slant to this, which really makes me question what Paterno knew, the 1998 incident was reported to authorities. Subsequently, Sandusky was forced out of his position, AND Paterno didn't show up to Sandusky's retirement party. So, one can speculate that Paterno certainly knows a lot more.

 

[Mr.Phat]

Just to add one other slant to this, which really makes me question what Paterno knew, the 1998 incident was reported to authorities. Subsequently, Sandusky was forced out of his position, AND Paterno didn't show up to Sandusky's retirement party. So, one can speculate that Paterno certainly knows a lot more.

Yes - I remember reading this. He left early citing another commitment I think.

 

[metsfan2323]

P's next press conference will be interesting. He was a linebacker at PSU when Sandusky was the LB coach.

 

[Husky68]

[quote="
Your last bit about my second sentence is incomprehensible. What are you trying to say?[/quote]

I'll try and explain more, you'll have to determine if it is still incomprehensible: Red are my new comments.

2nd sentence (meaning 2nd sentence that I wrote)- so you have no question (the following are examples of questions which you must either know the answer to or have no need to know as per your comment in the 2nd sentence "The only question I still have..."as to the precise words said by GA to Paterno, what was said at the meeting with AD and others, any conversation had by Paterno with anyone else in the PSU crew subsequently, what happened with the 1998 investigation and most importantly "WHAT DID PATERNO KNOW AND WHEN DID HE KNOW IT". (The following sentence was to reinforce my previous list of potential questions re-that there are a LOT OF UNANSWERED QUESTIONS except for someone who knows so much that he can say "The only question I still have..." To state the last sentence differently "think maybe something else happened prior to 1998 that is yet to come out since Sandosky had worked with this charity for more than 20 years prior to 1998 and all during that time he worked for PSU and out of the blue he decides to retire in 1999. I'm sure a lot of serial predators 1st exhibit this in actual action at the age of 5o something and the retirement was just for him to pursue his calling with no one in the PSU crew the wiser.

Additionally you make in another response the following comment:
First, I don't know how much protecting the university figured in the 2002 incident. After all, he wasn't a coach then. The news reports that Sandusky was a pedophile caught twice with boys came out three years ago, and there was no national firestorm.

Would like to see the news reports on that (assume was only an investigation start at that time - my reaction probably would have been - hmmm, hope that isn't true, if true its lucky for Sandosky that JoePa didn't know as I'm sure JoePa would have taken a bat to him). Anyway, is a lot different now with official charges and details and 8 victims and reveal how the PSU crew handled it (including JoePa). So how does the no national firestorm in 2009 (per you) figure into what Paterno and the rest of the crew were thinking in 2002? Wouldn't I also be able to say "given the national firestorm that the ACTUAL charges against Sandusky and two PSU employees has caused this week, protecting of the university MUST HAVE figured big in the 2002 incident". No better "I don't know" assumption than yours, you using 2009 future lack of national firestorm and me using this weeks real butt scorching national firestorm to support opposite "assumptions" on motives - my money is on the PSU crew trying to protect the JoePa and PSU brands at all costs in 2002 being a VERY BIG PART OF THEIR HANDLING OF THE FAILURE TO REPORT UNDERAGE SODOMY IN THE PSU LOCKER ROOM TO THE POLICE, but like you I "dont' know".

To make above simple I'll beat you to incomprehensible with a short summary - Don't you judge reasons for actions by persons based on THEIR assumptions on future potential ramifications AT THE TIME of their actions, rather than use future events to prove what their motives must have been? To state another way "what would you assume their intentions were if Sandosky had never been found out, just let him continue"? END

Not sure why this whole thing has pissed me off so much, I live in New Orleans and there are more shootings and murders here than you could comprehend for me to be pissed about. I guess it's the Clinton type word parsing, failure to live up to social responsiblity and circling the wagons. JoePa has hung on to his high paying job not as some great benefit to mankind and PSU football, he's done it because he likes it, the pay and the power. I don't want to hear any excuses - enough facts are in: everyone who had information on Sandusky's conduct from today back to whenever he 1st took his stick out to butt duck some kid should be fired and/or charged as the law and whoever is their current employer allows.

 

[upstater]

You haven't read what I've written in this thread, obviously, so I'm not going to bother to respond.

 

[Stinger92860]

The only question I still have about all of this is how the information about the 2002 incident was unearthed. Curley and Schultz are being indicted for perjury. It seems like the two men who knew about the incident were NOT the ones that revealed it to the police. Paterno and McQueary aren't likely as the ones who revealed it either. So, somewhere there is someone who revealed what happened to the police, and yet that wasn't in the Grand Jury report.

Are you saying that was a bad thing? Maybe one of the children or their parents. I suspect that 8 is the tip of the iceberg and I would expect more to come forward. Not all will be valid, but this is going to become a bigger mess than it is now.

 

[Dogdeacon]

upstater - your responses seem totally reasonable especially considering the thing hits close to home (Penn St).

One weird element of this which I can sense developing is that because no authority figure was ever held responsible or charged etc.. in all of the catholic church mess, people are justifiably looking to hold someONE responsible this time. I think the chuch incident is more reprehensible as their sole function should be the spirtitual/psychologocial well-being of their followers, but this feels similar. Its part don't make the same mistake in holding people accountable and part someone needs to really really suffer so these truly terrible things stop happening the same enabled way every time.

 

[ZooCougar]

upstater - your responses seem totally reasonable especially considering the thing hits close to home (Penn St).

One weird element of this which I can sense developing is that because no authority figure was ever held responsible or charged etc.. in all of the catholic church mess, people are justifiably looking to hold someONE responsible this time. I think the chuch incident is more reprehensible as their sole function should be the spirtitual/psychologocial well-being of their followers, but this feels similar. Its part don't make the same mistake in holding people accountable and part someone needs to really really suffer so these truly terrible things stop happening the same enabled way every time.

It's just more old men covering up the crimes of other old men. Legacies intertwined; the simplest explanation is often the right one. When this stuff was shuffled aside they sure as heck didn't have the victims' best interest in mind. It was their own.

 

[zls44]

For some reason I have this bizzare wish to see upstater totally come clean, throw Paterno completely under the bus. But that isn't fair to him, because I think he's a level-headed guy, and I feel for the PSU fans too. I think I want to see him throw the school under because this whole thing pisses me off so much.

Enough PSU. Enough of their holier-than-thou, "we don't need logos on our jerseys, we don't have NCAA sanctions" bullshit. Nobody on Earth should take any joy from this, but nobody should ever give a Miami fan crap about paying players again. Know what Miami didn't have? An entire coaching staff, police force & school administration covering up for a pederast.

This is as bad as Dave Bliss. Maybe worse. What's the point in ranking?

No more Paterno, no more about his good reputation and graduating kids and no NCAA sanctions and win records. Enough. Complete unmitigated scumbag. He's Dave Bliss to me. The man has no dignity, no ethics and no place amongst even the dirtbags populating college sports today.

Joe Paterno is a bad person, and a worse human being. Period. The sad thing?

That's a higher regard than I hold everyone else involved.

 

[HuskyNan]

For some reason I have this bizzare wish to see upstater totally come clean, throw Paterno completely under the bus. But that isn't fair to him, because I think he's a level-headed guy, and I feel for the PSU fans too. I think I want to see him throw the school under because this whole thing pisses me off so much.

Simply, if Penn State acts quickly to correct and cleanse its football program, the wreckage allegedly brought by former assistant Jerry Sandusky can be bulldozed. And before screaming that the program is not what needs saved now, but the alleged victims of Sandusky’s sickness, understand this: In any tragedy, there will be multiple victims. The kids — adults now — lead the list. But there are others. This happens to be about the others. The program is one. Others include the university, its alumni, its fans and the millions of residents of Pennsylvania who don’t deserve to be burdened bySandusky’s alleged behavior.

The good people who attend Penn State games, buy Nittany Lions merchandise, donate to the university and enjoy championship-quality football on autumn Saturdays are entitled to a proud, successful product. For 46 years under Paterno’s coaching, that’s what they’ve had. But they cannot have that with a head coach who did not do enough to keep Sandusky far, far away from Penn State facilities, or with an athletic administration in tatters.

• 
  
  Penn State finally bigger than Joe Pa?​

 

[Dove]

Kim Jones reported that Sandusky was in the PSU locker room as late as midweek last week! Chatting up players and stuff. She asked players about him and there was a group of players who only knew this past icon as a weird guy who just hangs around the place.

 

[Stinger92860]

The good people who attend Penn State games, buy Nittany Lions merchandise, donate to the university and enjoy championship-quality football on autumn Saturdays are entitled to a proud, successful product. For 46 years under Paterno’s coaching, that’s what they’ve had.

Not true, it was a lie!!! If you take the above approach you must also agree that Penn State stands for at least 13 years of pedophile approval.....In reality that is what they had.

 

[upstater]

For some reason I have this bizzare wish to see upstater totally come clean, throw Paterno completely under the bus. But that isn't fair to him, because I think he's a level-headed guy, and I feel for the PSU fans too. I think I want to see him throw the school under because this whole thing pisses me off so much.

Enough PSU. Enough of their holier-than-thou, "we don't need logos on our jerseys, we don't have NCAA sanctions" bullshit. Nobody on Earth should take any joy from this, but nobody should ever give a Miami fan crap about paying players again. Know what Miami didn't have? An entire coaching staff, police force & school administration covering up for a pederast.

This is as bad as Dave Bliss. Maybe worse. What's the point in ranking?

No more Paterno, no more about his good reputation and graduating kids and no NCAA sanctions and win records. Enough. Complete unmitigated scumbag. He's Dave Bliss to me. The man has no dignity, no ethics and no place amongst even the dirtbags populating college sports today.

Joe Paterno is a bad person, and a worse human being. Period. The sad thing?

That's a higher regard than I hold everyone else involved.

Uh, what do you ant me to say again? Just wondering.

 

[upstater]

Are you saying that was a bad thing? Maybe one of the children or their parents. I suspect that 8 is the tip of the iceberg and I would expect more to come forward. Not all will be valid, but this is going to become a bigger mess than it is now.

No, I didn't say it was a bad thing or a good thing. I said it was odd that it wasn't mentioned. It couldn't have been any of the children or the parents since the poor kid is a total unknown. That's the biggest travesty and problem with the PSU coaches and administrators. They never found out who that kid was. Only Sandusky knows.

 

[upstater]

It's just more old men covering up the crimes of other old men. Legacies intertwined; the simplest explanation is often the right one. When this stuff was shuffled aside they sure as heck didn't have the victims' best interest in mind. It was their own.

This is my conclusion too. And this is why it's shocking. But at the same time, this is old guard thinking through and through, That doesn't excuse it. Hell, Paterno has been a dinosaur for a long time. He should have hung it up with Sandusky. The fact that he hadn't only showed that he was the most powerful man on campus and that he had lost all perspective and sensibility.

 

[upstater]

upstater - your responses seem totally reasonable especially considering the thing hits close to home (Penn St).

One weird element of this which I can sense developing is that because no authority figure was ever held responsible or charged etc.. in all of the catholic church mess, people are justifiably looking to hold someONE responsible this time. I think the chuch incident is more reprehensible as their sole function should be the spirtitual/psychologocial well-being of their followers, but this feels similar. Its part don't make the same mistake in holding people accountable and part someone needs to really really suffer so these truly terrible things stop happening the same enabled way every time.

When you sit back and consider the details of the 2002 incident, the fact that no one knows who that kid was, a Penn Stater can't have any sympathy for the coaches and administrsators.

 

[ctchamps]

For some reason I have this bizzare wish to see upstater totally come clean, throw Paterno completely under the bus. But that isn't fair to him, because I think he's a level-headed guy, and I feel for the PSU fans too. I think I want to see him throw the school under because this whole thing pisses me off so much.

Enough PSU. Enough of their holier-than-thou, "we don't need logos on our jerseys, we don't have NCAA sanctions" bullshit. Nobody on Earth should take any joy from this, but nobody should ever give a Miami fan crap about paying players again. Know what Miami didn't have? An entire coaching staff, police force & school administration covering up for a pederast.

This is as bad as Dave Bliss. Maybe worse. What's the point in ranking?

No more Paterno, no more about his good reputation and graduating kids and no NCAA sanctions and win records. Enough. Complete unmitigated scumbag. He's Dave Bliss to me. The man has no dignity, no ethics and no place amongst even the dirtbags populating college sports today.

Joe Paterno is a bad person, and a worse human being. Period. The sad thing?

That's a higher regard than I hold everyone else involved.

The crimes committed by Sandusky were far more heinous than the crimes that took place at Miami. But I feel both school's presidents knew what was going on and did nothing to stop events. I feel both presidents should be shown the door.

 

[Excalibur]

The good people who attend Penn State games, buy Nittany Lions merchandise, donate to the university and enjoy championship-quality football on autumn Saturdays are entitled to a proud, successful product. For 46 years under Paterno’s coaching, that’s what they’ve had.

No, that's what they thought they had.

 

[zls44]

Uh, what do you ant me to say again? Just wondering.

I want you to admit that PSU has been living a lie. That it isn't any more special than anywhere else (nor is UConn, for that matter). That this isn't a "witch hunt" by a DA from the next county over "out to get" PSU.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

I am convinced that the silly dance to the death that Paterno and Bowden were playing from the mid 90's (when it became obvious that the only thing that would prevent one from ending up with the all time wins record was the other) played a role here. If Joe Pa wasn't concerned with being forced out (and nine years ago there was a bit of a movement attempting just this) he likely would have followed through on the result of his passing the information on (which is where the current problem is rooted).

What Sandusky did over the years is beyond criminal and in all candor, anyone who could have done something to stop his actions at any point along the line (and in the process save one or more of his subsequent victims) has to at a minimum personally hold some culpability for not doing what was necessary to stop it. This is a situation where doing the minimum is nowhere near sufficient. Legally it may be satisfactory. Morally is is unacceptable.

 

[upstater]

I want you to admit that PSU has been living a lie. That it isn't any more special than anywhere else (nor is UConn, for that matter). That this isn't a "witch hunt" by a DA from the next county over "out to get" PSU.

You can begin by reading.

 

[traitor71]

The crimes committed by Sandusky were far more heinous than the crimes that took place at Miami. But I feel both school's presidents knew what was going on and did nothing to stop events. I feel both presidents should be shown the door.

Let's be fair here. What we have seen at other places and what have been alleged to have gone on at other places such as Miami or Auburn are not crimes. No one is going to jail over any of that stuff, other than Shapiro of course, but that is for actual crimes related to his ponzi scheme. This situation at Penn State is a crime, a heinous one and really shouldn't even be discussed with NCAA violations in my opinion.

This is just so far beyond any of that, and to even mention it in the same sentence as these other "scandals" is almost a disservice to the victims in my opinion.

 

[Excalibur]

First, I don't know how much protecting the university figured in the 2002 incident. After all, he wasn't a coach then. The news reports that Sandusky was a pedophile caught twice with boys came out three years ago, and there was no national firestorm. That tells me that the brand of PSU and the school was not in danger.

You've mentioned this several times -- that you doubt that protecting the PSU football program or the university figured into the decisions made by PSU staff in 2002. In reality, it was the only plausible motivation, which is what makes it unforgivable. Supporting your assumption by citing the slow media reaction after the fact is a logical fallacy.

 

[upstater]

You've mentioned this several times -- that you doubt that protecting the PSU football program or the university figured into the decisions made by PSU staff in 2002. In reality, it was the only plausible motivation, which is what makes it unforgivable. Supporting your assumption by citing the slow media reaction after the fact is a logical fallacy.

Above I wrote the motivation was Paterno protecting Sandusky by not wanting to know. The 1998 incident was reported, when he was still a coach. Like I said, I've known about this for 3 years after reading news reports, I didn't connect it to PSU. To my mind, it was about Sandusky, and not PSU.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

Upstater just curious to know what your connection to PSU is?