Francessa riveting radio; killing Paterno

[ruskin]

A couple of observations. The first is extremely trivial.

1. Imagine if this had happened last year. Edsall would have at the least been a second-tier candidate to replace Paterno. PSU is really his "dream job."

2. It's sickening that there's people offering defenses in any form for this. You shouldn't even have to say "you'd feel differently if it was your son or grandson."

3. This episode is yet another example where folks with positions of power who have worked a very long time in an insulated, rural community with little to no oversight or accountability forget the rest of the world's moral standards and think they're bulletproof, in part by creating an atmosphere of fear among the 'little people' that discourages them from speaking out. Excusing/covering up child rape is in a heinous league all its own and makes following NCAA rules pale in comparison. But it's still unsettling that Josh Nochimson's relationship with UConn continued long after it should have ended.

I hope everyone in Storrs is paying attention.

 

[UConnCat]

Here's a story from the Harrisburg Patriot-News in which two of the victim's mothers are interviewed. The story will cause you to feel enraged and disgusted and break your heart. http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/mothers_of_two_of_jerry_sandus.html

"I don’t even have words to talk about the betrayal that I feel,” said the mom of Victim Six. “[McQueary] was a grown man, and he saw a boy being sodomized ... He ran and called his daddy?”

The Patriot News Editorial Board has called for the PSU Board to fire the President and not to renew Paterno's contract after the season. http://www.newseum.org/todaysfrontpages/hr.asp?fpVname=PA_PN&ref_pge=lst

 

[UConnRock]

Just as an FYI, once you're vested and take retirement, all emeritus employees are given life access. The question is not, Why was he given life access? But, why were his privileges not taken away? Those privileges are automatic for retirees.

Not all retirees get an office in the athletic department from which to run their charity program. He also got access to several PSU satellite campuses to run his football camp for young kids up until 2008. This was 6 years after he was banned from bringing children into the facilities at the PSU main campus.

Emeritus employees get access to campus public locker rooms and the workout facilities. Sandusky was given keys to the football locker room to which I am sure very few people have direct access. In fact the incident that was witnessed by the janitor occurred in the football locker room when PSU was at an away game. PSU gave him the keys to a protected area where he could commit these indecent acts.

 

[Dann]

anyone here call into the fan on a somewhat regular basis? i used to every once in a while back in hs. i think im going to call today and all uconn fans should start on a more regular basis. time to start pumping this state! i let him have it once or twice after the BET last year and i think its time were not just a one week thing a year. time we let them know uconn has a following worthy of mention. let the assult on nyc begin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

tell them you want to talk uconn, and they probally won't put you thru due to psu nfl nba nd mlb talk. but if more ppl keep calling and wanting to talk about uconn eventually a couple will get thru...

 

[upstater]

Not all retirees get an office in the athletic department from which to run their charity program. He also got access to several PSU satellite campuses to run his football camp for young kids up until 2008. This was 6 years after he was banned from bringing children into the facilities at the PSU main campus.

Emeritus employees get access to campus public locker rooms and the workout facilities. Sandusky was given keys to the football locker room to which I am sure very few people have direct access. In fact the incident that was witnessed by the janitor occurred in the football locker room when PSU was at an away game. PSU gave him the keys to a protected area where he could commit these indecent acts.

Well, retirees don't get access to everywhere on campus but rather to the place in which they worked. That's why, as an athletic department employee, he was given access.

In other words, it's not about working out and using recreational facilities, but it's about keeping an office and getting secretarial privileges, etc. It's staying on campus but without teaching and without salary. Fund-raising for many of the retirees is pretty common.

 

[upstater]

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/state_police_man_comes_forward.html

Many more will come forward. If there were 8, there were at least double that many.

 

[Stinger92860]

How big is the Penn State endowment? The lawsuits could be staggering.

 

[speedoo]

Paterno's presser coming up at noon. ESPn says they will air it on SC. I assume YES may air it as well.

 

[upstater]

How big is the Penn State endowment? The lawsuits could be staggering.

I don't think this is a lawsuit consideration. The amount paid per victim by the Catholic Church for instance pales in comparison to the amount of PR damage this has already caused PSU.

If there is any lawsuit consideration here really troubling the board, then they need to rethink things--call the Tylenol guys for their advice.

The only question I still have about all of this is how the information about the 2002 incident was unearthed. Curley and Schultz are being indicted for perjury. It seems like the two men who knew about the incident were NOT the ones that revealed it to the police. Paterno and McQueary aren't likely as the ones who revealed it either. So, somewhere there is someone who revealed what happened to the police, and yet that wasn't in the Grand Jury report.

 

[Jax Husky]

Upstater, I really feel for you and hundreds of thousands of people associated with Penn St. over this. It is not fair to the fans. I put the victims first, and this is a terrible crime though. Just wanted to put that out there. I cannot imagine this happening to a school I love.

 

[upstater]

Upstater, I really feel for you and hundreds of thousands of people associated with Penn St. over this. It is not fair to the fans. I put the victims first, and this is a terrible crime though. Just wanted to put that out there. I cannot imagine this happening to a school I love.

It hasn't really hit yet. It boggles the mind. I'm having a hard time imagining Spanier's reaction especially. I'm ready to condemn the others, but I'm trying to imagine what Spanier was told.

"Graham, we had an 'uncomfortable' incident with a former coach and a boy in the locker room."

That was apparently the word used.

What was his response.

"Gee, you don't say?" or, "What do you mean by uncomfortable?"

In the back of my mind, I've put Paterno in with the men from another era who swept crap like this under the rug (that's not an excuse, especially since this happened in 2002, and Paterno had to have greater awareness of this), but an academic should know better automatically.

 

[Husky68]

I don't think this is a lawsuit consideration. The amount paid per victim by the Catholic Church for instance pales in comparison to the amount of PR damage this has already caused PSU.

If there is any lawsuit consideration here really troubling the board, then they need to rethink things--call the Tylenol guys for their advice.

The only question I still have about all of this is how the information about the 2002 incident was unearthed. Curley and Schultz are being indicted for perjury. It seems like the two men who knew about the incident were NOT the ones that revealed it to the police. Paterno and McQueary aren't likely as the ones who revealed it either. So, somewhere there is someone who revealed what happened to the police, and yet that wasn't in the Grand Jury report.

Believe one of the mothers reported to police.

 

[Letsgohuskies11]

this is wrong

http://www.amazon.com/Touched-Jerry...3575/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1320770482&sr=8-1

 

[Husky68]

I don't think this is a lawsuit consideration. The amount paid per victim by the Catholic Church for instance pales in comparison to the amount of PR damage this has already caused PSU.

If there is any lawsuit consideration here really troubling the board, then they need to rethink things--call the Tylenol guys for their advice.

The only question I still have about all of this is how the information about the 2002 incident was unearthed. Curley and Schultz are being indicted for perjury. It seems like the two men who knew about the incident were NOT the ones that revealed it to the police. Paterno and McQueary aren't likely as the ones who revealed it either. So, somewhere there is someone who revealed what happened to the police, and yet that wasn't in the Grand Jury report.

"If there is any lawsuit consideration really troubling the board, then they need to rethink thing--call the Tylenol guys for their advice" "The only question I still have about all of this is how the information about the 2002 incident was unearthed"

For the 1st sentence - pretty antiseptic type comment. Comparing product tampering response for "BRAND" protection of a valuable commercial product to a vast array of PSU employees and hangers on actively avoiding turning in a serial butt ducker of 10 year olds to protect the PSU "BRAND" is - I guess I can't think of a good enough word - WEAK is what I'll use 'cause that understates my reaction to your comment about as much as your above comment understates the actions of the PSU crew.

2nd sentence - so you have no question as to the precise words said by GA to Paterno, what was said at the meeting with AD and others, any conversation had by Paterno with anyone else in the PSU crew subsequently, what happened with the 1998 investigation and most importantly "WHAT DID PATERNO KNOW AND WHEN DID HE KNOW IT". I'm sure a lot of serial predators 1st exhibit this in actual action at the age of 5o something and the retirement was just for him to pursue his calling with no one in the PSU crew the wiser.

I'm not much of a fan of lawyers butt in this case hope the civil court system takes enough out of each of the PSU crew individually and collectively to make it really hurt (and you know where).

 

[upstater]

Believe one of the mothers reported to police.

How did she find out about it?

The 2002 victim is totally unknown.

All the information about that incident comes from the PSU people.

 

[upstater]

"If there is any lawsuit consideration really troubling the board, then they need to rethink thing--call the Tylenol guys for their advice" "The only question I still have about all of this is how the information about the 2002 incident was unearthed"

For the 1st sentence - pretty antiseptic type comment. Comparing product tampering response for "BRAND" protection of a valuable commercial product to a vast array of PSU employees and hangers on actively avoiding turning in a serial butt ducker of 10 year olds to protect the PSU "BRAND" is - I guess I can't think of a good enough word - WEAK is what I'll use 'cause that understates my reaction to your comment about as much as your above comment understates the actions of the PSU crew.

2nd sentence - so you have no question as to the precise words said by GA to Paterno, what was said at the meeting with AD and others, any conversation had by Paterno with anyone else in the PSU crew subsequently, what happened with the 1998 investigation and most importantly "WHAT DID PATERNO KNOW AND WHEN DID HE KNOW IT". I'm sure a lot of serial predators 1st exhibit this in actual action at the age of 5o something and the retirement was just for him to pursue his calling with no one in the PSU crew the wiser.

I'm not much of a fan of lawyers butt in this case hope the civil court system takes enough out of each of the PSU crew individually and collectively to make it really hurt (and you know where).

So many knee-jerk reactions on this board today, simply because I'm a PSU fan.

What I wrote is that there should be NO considerations of the lawsuit, and that they need to come clean--immediately. Just like the Tylenol case, where the company's decision is well known and often cited as a case study. You don't worry about lawsuits, you do the right thing ASAP. I know the Tylenol response may now be long forgotten, since the world is in CYA mode, but for years it was held up as a model response.

Your last bit about my second sentence is incomprehensible. What are you trying to say?

 

[freescooter]

There is a huge danger in any institution that people are more concerned with damagining the institution than they are with the victims. that is abundantly clear in th ecase of the catholic Church scandals...priest, bishops, cardinals liley even popes, were all more concerned with protecting the institutional church from having its reputation harmed than they were with the fact that kids were being raped. I have a sense that this case is very similar. Paterno and eveyone else involved became so concerned with trying to avoid damaging the reputation of Penn State football that they lost sight of the real issue. tha tsaid, I sort of agree with upstater that Paterno is something of an anachronism and very likely was neither comfortable nor maybe even completely "got" how serious this matter was. But certainly the AD and the VP should have gotten it. Just to be clear, I don't say that to excuse JoePa. He absolutely should have done the right thing.

I also don't quite get the 1998 situation...it sounds as if in that case the police were involved but their investigation didn't lead to charges? Is that correct?

 

[upstater]

There is a huge danger in any institution that people are more concerned with damagining the institution than they are with the victims. that is abundantly clear in th ecase of the catholic Church scandals...priest, bishops, cardinals liley even popes, were all more concerned with protecting the institutional church from having its reputation harmed than they were with the fact that kids were being raped. I have a sense that this case is very similar. Paterno and eveyone else involved became so concerned with trying to avoid damaging the reputation of Penn State football that they lost sight of the real issue. tha tsaid, I sort of agree with upstater that Paterno is something of an anachronism and very likely was neither comfortable nor maybe even completely "got" how serious this matter was. But certainly the AD and the VP should have gotten it. Just to be clear, I don't say that to excuse JoePa. He absolutely should have done the right thing.

I also don't quite get the 1998 situation...it sounds as if in that case the police were involved but their investigation didn't lead to charges? Is that correct?

First, I don't know how much protecting the university figured in the 2002 incident. After all, he wasn't a coach then. The news reports that Sandusky was a pedophile caught twice with boys came out three years ago, and there was no national firestorm. That tells me that the brand of PSU and the school was not in danger.

What is shocking here is the PSU cover-up and the graphic nature of the claims.

As for 1998, it was reported. Local police was involved, state child protection services investigated, and there was a sting run by the DA. Basically, Sandusky was invited to the home of the parents to talk about what he did in the shower. The police were in the house listening. They recorded him admitting that he hugged the boy, and that was what was reported as well by the eyewitness. I don't know why Child Protection and the DA let that go, but in retrospect this is what lead to Sandusky being pushed out as a coach.

 

[BugsyCT]

Upstater, I really feel for you and hundreds of thousands of people associated with Penn St. over this. It is not fair to the fans. I put the victims first, and this is a terrible crime though. Just wanted to put that out there. I cannot imagine this happening to a school I love.

Agreed. PSU fans & alumni who put their trust & allegiance in Paterno, the football program, and the PSU administration have every right to be outraged about this and should be demanding heads to roll.

 

[Mr.Phat]

I really don't understand how there's any other way to view this. I've read the PSU boards and some of their fans' defense of Paterno blows my mind.

Read the allegations and what factually transpired. Paterno was informed by one of his assistants that he observed Sandusky and a minor laying together in the shower. Sandusky maintained a presense on campus and had direct access to locker rooms and children for years after Paterno was informed of this.

I don't care how long he's coached or how much he is Penn State football. If I'm in charge Paterno doesn't even get to clear out his own office.

What I find lacks credibility is Paterno's insistence that he did not learn any details of what McQueary saw in the shower. If I heard this story involving a good friend and coaching colleague for 30 years I would want to know EXACTLY what the person saw. I just don't find it credible that Paterno listens to an assistant say he saw "something inappropriate" or whatever and not share details. Anyone would want to know details not because they would enjoy hearing them but to affirm the story of the eye witness to the crime, given how incredible the story is.

Public opinion is asserting that even if Paterno did not learn any details, the incident was gruesome and criminal enough that Paterno should have told the AD when Paterno reported what McQueary saw to call the cops and to let him know when they arrive because I want to talk to them too. And if the cops didn't show up within an hour Paterno would call them himself. We don't know a lot about this episode but I am wondering if Paterno ever followed up with the AD or finance guy who both heard the story to find out what was being done to get to the bottom of the issue.

 

[upstater]

What I find lacks credibility is Paterno's insistence that he did not learn any details of what McQueary saw in the shower. If I heard this story involving a good friend and coaching colleague for 30 years I would want to know EXACTLY what the person saw. I just don't find it credible that Paterno listens to an assistant say he saw "something inappropriate" or whatever and not share details. Anyone would want to know details not because they would enjoy hearing them but to affirm the story of the eye witness to the crime, given how incredible the story is.

Public opinion is asserting that even if Paterno did not learn any details, the incident was gruesome and criminal enough that Paterno should have told the AD when Paterno reported what McQueary saw to call the cops and to let him know when they arrive because I want to talk to them too. And if the cops didn't show up within an hour Paterno would call them himself. We don't know a lot about this episode but I am wondering if Paterno ever followed up with the AD or finance guy who both heard the story to find out what was being done to get to the bottom of the issue.

Just to add one other slant to this, which really makes me question what Paterno knew, the 1998 incident was reported to authorities. Subsequently, Sandusky was forced out of his position, AND Paterno didn't show up to Sandusky's retirement party. So, one can speculate that Paterno certainly knows a lot more.

 

[Mr.Phat]

Just to add one other slant to this, which really makes me question what Paterno knew, the 1998 incident was reported to authorities. Subsequently, Sandusky was forced out of his position, AND Paterno didn't show up to Sandusky's retirement party. So, one can speculate that Paterno certainly knows a lot more.

Yes - I remember reading this. He left early citing another commitment I think.

 

[metsfan2323]

P's next press conference will be interesting. He was a linebacker at PSU when Sandusky was the LB coach.

 

[Husky68]

[quote="
Your last bit about my second sentence is incomprehensible. What are you trying to say?[/quote]

I'll try and explain more, you'll have to determine if it is still incomprehensible: Red are my new comments.

2nd sentence (meaning 2nd sentence that I wrote)- so you have no question (the following are examples of questions which you must either know the answer to or have no need to know as per your comment in the 2nd sentence "The only question I still have..."as to the precise words said by GA to Paterno, what was said at the meeting with AD and others, any conversation had by Paterno with anyone else in the PSU crew subsequently, what happened with the 1998 investigation and most importantly "WHAT DID PATERNO KNOW AND WHEN DID HE KNOW IT". (The following sentence was to reinforce my previous list of potential questions re-that there are a LOT OF UNANSWERED QUESTIONS except for someone who knows so much that he can say "The only question I still have..." To state the last sentence differently "think maybe something else happened prior to 1998 that is yet to come out since Sandosky had worked with this charity for more than 20 years prior to 1998 and all during that time he worked for PSU and out of the blue he decides to retire in 1999. I'm sure a lot of serial predators 1st exhibit this in actual action at the age of 5o something and the retirement was just for him to pursue his calling with no one in the PSU crew the wiser.

Additionally you make in another response the following comment:
First, I don't know how much protecting the university figured in the 2002 incident. After all, he wasn't a coach then. The news reports that Sandusky was a pedophile caught twice with boys came out three years ago, and there was no national firestorm.

Would like to see the news reports on that (assume was only an investigation start at that time - my reaction probably would have been - hmmm, hope that isn't true, if true its lucky for Sandosky that JoePa didn't know as I'm sure JoePa would have taken a bat to him). Anyway, is a lot different now with official charges and details and 8 victims and reveal how the PSU crew handled it (including JoePa). So how does the no national firestorm in 2009 (per you) figure into what Paterno and the rest of the crew were thinking in 2002? Wouldn't I also be able to say "given the national firestorm that the ACTUAL charges against Sandusky and two PSU employees has caused this week, protecting of the university MUST HAVE figured big in the 2002 incident". No better "I don't know" assumption than yours, you using 2009 future lack of national firestorm and me using this weeks real butt scorching national firestorm to support opposite "assumptions" on motives - my money is on the PSU crew trying to protect the JoePa and PSU brands at all costs in 2002 being a VERY BIG PART OF THEIR HANDLING OF THE FAILURE TO REPORT UNDERAGE SODOMY IN THE PSU LOCKER ROOM TO THE POLICE, but like you I "dont' know".

To make above simple I'll beat you to incomprehensible with a short summary - Don't you judge reasons for actions by persons based on THEIR assumptions on future potential ramifications AT THE TIME of their actions, rather than use future events to prove what their motives must have been? To state another way "what would you assume their intentions were if Sandosky had never been found out, just let him continue"? END

Not sure why this whole thing has pissed me off so much, I live in New Orleans and there are more shootings and murders here than you could comprehend for me to be pissed about. I guess it's the Clinton type word parsing, failure to live up to social responsiblity and circling the wagons. JoePa has hung on to his high paying job not as some great benefit to mankind and PSU football, he's done it because he likes it, the pay and the power. I don't want to hear any excuses - enough facts are in: everyone who had information on Sandusky's conduct from today back to whenever he 1st took his stick out to butt duck some kid should be fired and/or charged as the law and whoever is their current employer allows.

 

[upstater]

You haven't read what I've written in this thread, obviously, so I'm not going to bother to respond.

 

[Stinger92860]

The only question I still have about all of this is how the information about the 2002 incident was unearthed. Curley and Schultz are being indicted for perjury. It seems like the two men who knew about the incident were NOT the ones that revealed it to the police. Paterno and McQueary aren't likely as the ones who revealed it either. So, somewhere there is someone who revealed what happened to the police, and yet that wasn't in the Grand Jury report.

Are you saying that was a bad thing? Maybe one of the children or their parents. I suspect that 8 is the tip of the iceberg and I would expect more to come forward. Not all will be valid, but this is going to become a bigger mess than it is now.

 

[Dogdeacon]

upstater - your responses seem totally reasonable especially considering the thing hits close to home (Penn St).

One weird element of this which I can sense developing is that because no authority figure was ever held responsible or charged etc.. in all of the catholic church mess, people are justifiably looking to hold someONE responsible this time. I think the chuch incident is more reprehensible as their sole function should be the spirtitual/psychologocial well-being of their followers, but this feels similar. Its part don't make the same mistake in holding people accountable and part someone needs to really really suffer so these truly terrible things stop happening the same enabled way every time.

 

[ZooCougar]

upstater - your responses seem totally reasonable especially considering the thing hits close to home (Penn St).

One weird element of this which I can sense developing is that because no authority figure was ever held responsible or charged etc.. in all of the catholic church mess, people are justifiably looking to hold someONE responsible this time. I think the chuch incident is more reprehensible as their sole function should be the spirtitual/psychologocial well-being of their followers, but this feels similar. Its part don't make the same mistake in holding people accountable and part someone needs to really really suffer so these truly terrible things stop happening the same enabled way every time.

It's just more old men covering up the crimes of other old men. Legacies intertwined; the simplest explanation is often the right one. When this stuff was shuffled aside they sure as heck didn't have the victims' best interest in mind. It was their own.

 

[zls44]

For some reason I have this bizzare wish to see upstater totally come clean, throw Paterno completely under the bus. But that isn't fair to him, because I think he's a level-headed guy, and I feel for the PSU fans too. I think I want to see him throw the school under because this whole thing pisses me off so much.

Enough PSU. Enough of their holier-than-thou, "we don't need logos on our jerseys, we don't have NCAA sanctions" bullshit. Nobody on Earth should take any joy from this, but nobody should ever give a Miami fan crap about paying players again. Know what Miami didn't have? An entire coaching staff, police force & school administration covering up for a pederast.

This is as bad as Dave Bliss. Maybe worse. What's the point in ranking?

No more Paterno, no more about his good reputation and graduating kids and no NCAA sanctions and win records. Enough. Complete unmitigated scumbag. He's Dave Bliss to me. The man has no dignity, no ethics and no place amongst even the dirtbags populating college sports today.

Joe Paterno is a bad person, and a worse human being. Period. The sad thing?

That's a higher regard than I hold everyone else involved.

 

[HuskyNan]

For some reason I have this bizzare wish to see upstater totally come clean, throw Paterno completely under the bus. But that isn't fair to him, because I think he's a level-headed guy, and I feel for the PSU fans too. I think I want to see him throw the school under because this whole thing pisses me off so much.

Simply, if Penn State acts quickly to correct and cleanse its football program, the wreckage allegedly brought by former assistant Jerry Sandusky can be bulldozed. And before screaming that the program is not what needs saved now, but the alleged victims of Sandusky’s sickness, understand this: In any tragedy, there will be multiple victims. The kids — adults now — lead the list. But there are others. This happens to be about the others. The program is one. Others include the university, its alumni, its fans and the millions of residents of Pennsylvania who don’t deserve to be burdened bySandusky’s alleged behavior.

The good people who attend Penn State games, buy Nittany Lions merchandise, donate to the university and enjoy championship-quality football on autumn Saturdays are entitled to a proud, successful product. For 46 years under Paterno’s coaching, that’s what they’ve had. But they cannot have that with a head coach who did not do enough to keep Sandusky far, far away from Penn State facilities, or with an athletic administration in tatters.

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  Penn State finally bigger than Joe Pa?​