Francessa riveting radio; killing Paterno

[Jax Husky]

I'd like to see this defense. Are you reading BWI? Because I don't go to any other board. If I had to estimate, it's 97-3 against Paterno.

Check this thread, and you'll see plenty of defenses. Apparently, telling an administrator about an anal raping of a ten year old is good enough

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=157&f=1395&t=8219147

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

I'd like to see this defense. Are you reading BWI? Because I don't go to any other board. If I had to estimate, it's 97-3 against Paterno.

No I was reading the Scout board. The defense was that JoePa did the right thing by reporting this to his superiors. In fairness, as more of the details emerged, many have stopped with that idiotic defense.

Side note, PSU has announced that JoePa will only answer questions today about Nebraska. If so, they should save everyone's time and just cancel the presser.

 

[upstater]

How about just going into the shower and drilling a boot into Sandusky's teeth? Then helping the kid out of there.

Also, Kim Jones referenced the disappearance of a DA and his hard drive after he learned of inappropriate behavior taking place at PSU. It may be in the indictment which I brought home for an evening read during The Sing Off. Or it may be Googleable.

They all covered it up because they didn't want to tarnish the Penn State brand.

This has been mentioned. But it's heading into tin foil territory since the DA in question was the one in charge of the 1998 investigation, which was dropped.

But the story of that DA's disappearance occurred 7 or 8 years later. His car was found at the spot where his brother had committed suicide earlier. The hardrive thing is bizarre.

 

[upstater]

Check this thread, and you'll see plenty of defenses. Apparently, telling an administrator about an anal raping of a ten year old is good enough

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=157&f=1395&t=8219147

OK, gotcha.

The main site for PSU has been this one: http://bwi.rivals.com/forum.asp?fid=36

The Scout board has been a small club.

 

[upstater]

His unexpected departure in 1999 and the fact that he never seriously considered some high paying HC jobs can be easily explained now. There was no pressure for him to leave as his departure was before the downfall of PSU in the 2000s. In fact, in 1999 they finished at #11 in the country. He was set for life with nice 6 figure salary and left at 55. Paterno gave him a golden parachute and a promise to access to the team and facilities if he stayed away from boys, but couldn't chance him remaining on the staff.

Just as an FYI, once you're vested and take retirement, all emeritus employees are given life access. The question is not, Why was he given life access? But, why were his privileges not taken away? Those privileges are automatic for retirees.

 

[ruskin]

A couple of observations. The first is extremely trivial.

1. Imagine if this had happened last year. Edsall would have at the least been a second-tier candidate to replace Paterno. PSU is really his "dream job."

2. It's sickening that there's people offering defenses in any form for this. You shouldn't even have to say "you'd feel differently if it was your son or grandson."

3. This episode is yet another example where folks with positions of power who have worked a very long time in an insulated, rural community with little to no oversight or accountability forget the rest of the world's moral standards and think they're bulletproof, in part by creating an atmosphere of fear among the 'little people' that discourages them from speaking out. Excusing/covering up child rape is in a heinous league all its own and makes following NCAA rules pale in comparison. But it's still unsettling that Josh Nochimson's relationship with UConn continued long after it should have ended.

I hope everyone in Storrs is paying attention.

 

[UConnCat]

Here's a story from the Harrisburg Patriot-News in which two of the victim's mothers are interviewed. The story will cause you to feel enraged and disgusted and break your heart. http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/mothers_of_two_of_jerry_sandus.html

"I don’t even have words to talk about the betrayal that I feel,” said the mom of Victim Six. “[McQueary] was a grown man, and he saw a boy being sodomized ... He ran and called his daddy?”

The Patriot News Editorial Board has called for the PSU Board to fire the President and not to renew Paterno's contract after the season. http://www.newseum.org/todaysfrontpages/hr.asp?fpVname=PA_PN&ref_pge=lst

 

[UConnRock]

Just as an FYI, once you're vested and take retirement, all emeritus employees are given life access. The question is not, Why was he given life access? But, why were his privileges not taken away? Those privileges are automatic for retirees.

Not all retirees get an office in the athletic department from which to run their charity program. He also got access to several PSU satellite campuses to run his football camp for young kids up until 2008. This was 6 years after he was banned from bringing children into the facilities at the PSU main campus.

Emeritus employees get access to campus public locker rooms and the workout facilities. Sandusky was given keys to the football locker room to which I am sure very few people have direct access. In fact the incident that was witnessed by the janitor occurred in the football locker room when PSU was at an away game. PSU gave him the keys to a protected area where he could commit these indecent acts.

 

[Dann]

anyone here call into the fan on a somewhat regular basis? i used to every once in a while back in hs. i think im going to call today and all uconn fans should start on a more regular basis. time to start pumping this state! i let him have it once or twice after the BET last year and i think its time were not just a one week thing a year. time we let them know uconn has a following worthy of mention. let the assult on nyc begin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

tell them you want to talk uconn, and they probally won't put you thru due to psu nfl nba nd mlb talk. but if more ppl keep calling and wanting to talk about uconn eventually a couple will get thru...

 

[upstater]

Not all retirees get an office in the athletic department from which to run their charity program. He also got access to several PSU satellite campuses to run his football camp for young kids up until 2008. This was 6 years after he was banned from bringing children into the facilities at the PSU main campus.

Emeritus employees get access to campus public locker rooms and the workout facilities. Sandusky was given keys to the football locker room to which I am sure very few people have direct access. In fact the incident that was witnessed by the janitor occurred in the football locker room when PSU was at an away game. PSU gave him the keys to a protected area where he could commit these indecent acts.

Well, retirees don't get access to everywhere on campus but rather to the place in which they worked. That's why, as an athletic department employee, he was given access.

In other words, it's not about working out and using recreational facilities, but it's about keeping an office and getting secretarial privileges, etc. It's staying on campus but without teaching and without salary. Fund-raising for many of the retirees is pretty common.

 

[upstater]

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/state_police_man_comes_forward.html

Many more will come forward. If there were 8, there were at least double that many.

 

[Stinger92860]

How big is the Penn State endowment? The lawsuits could be staggering.

 

[speedoo]

Paterno's presser coming up at noon. ESPn says they will air it on SC. I assume YES may air it as well.

 

[upstater]

How big is the Penn State endowment? The lawsuits could be staggering.

I don't think this is a lawsuit consideration. The amount paid per victim by the Catholic Church for instance pales in comparison to the amount of PR damage this has already caused PSU.

If there is any lawsuit consideration here really troubling the board, then they need to rethink things--call the Tylenol guys for their advice.

The only question I still have about all of this is how the information about the 2002 incident was unearthed. Curley and Schultz are being indicted for perjury. It seems like the two men who knew about the incident were NOT the ones that revealed it to the police. Paterno and McQueary aren't likely as the ones who revealed it either. So, somewhere there is someone who revealed what happened to the police, and yet that wasn't in the Grand Jury report.

 

[Jax Husky]

Upstater, I really feel for you and hundreds of thousands of people associated with Penn St. over this. It is not fair to the fans. I put the victims first, and this is a terrible crime though. Just wanted to put that out there. I cannot imagine this happening to a school I love.

 

[upstater]

Upstater, I really feel for you and hundreds of thousands of people associated with Penn St. over this. It is not fair to the fans. I put the victims first, and this is a terrible crime though. Just wanted to put that out there. I cannot imagine this happening to a school I love.

It hasn't really hit yet. It boggles the mind. I'm having a hard time imagining Spanier's reaction especially. I'm ready to condemn the others, but I'm trying to imagine what Spanier was told.

"Graham, we had an 'uncomfortable' incident with a former coach and a boy in the locker room."

That was apparently the word used.

What was his response.

"Gee, you don't say?" or, "What do you mean by uncomfortable?"

In the back of my mind, I've put Paterno in with the men from another era who swept crap like this under the rug (that's not an excuse, especially since this happened in 2002, and Paterno had to have greater awareness of this), but an academic should know better automatically.

 

[Husky68]

I don't think this is a lawsuit consideration. The amount paid per victim by the Catholic Church for instance pales in comparison to the amount of PR damage this has already caused PSU.

If there is any lawsuit consideration here really troubling the board, then they need to rethink things--call the Tylenol guys for their advice.

The only question I still have about all of this is how the information about the 2002 incident was unearthed. Curley and Schultz are being indicted for perjury. It seems like the two men who knew about the incident were NOT the ones that revealed it to the police. Paterno and McQueary aren't likely as the ones who revealed it either. So, somewhere there is someone who revealed what happened to the police, and yet that wasn't in the Grand Jury report.

Believe one of the mothers reported to police.

 

[Letsgohuskies11]

this is wrong

http://www.amazon.com/Touched-Jerry...3575/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1320770482&sr=8-1

 

[Husky68]

I don't think this is a lawsuit consideration. The amount paid per victim by the Catholic Church for instance pales in comparison to the amount of PR damage this has already caused PSU.

If there is any lawsuit consideration here really troubling the board, then they need to rethink things--call the Tylenol guys for their advice.

The only question I still have about all of this is how the information about the 2002 incident was unearthed. Curley and Schultz are being indicted for perjury. It seems like the two men who knew about the incident were NOT the ones that revealed it to the police. Paterno and McQueary aren't likely as the ones who revealed it either. So, somewhere there is someone who revealed what happened to the police, and yet that wasn't in the Grand Jury report.

"If there is any lawsuit consideration really troubling the board, then they need to rethink thing--call the Tylenol guys for their advice" "The only question I still have about all of this is how the information about the 2002 incident was unearthed"

For the 1st sentence - pretty antiseptic type comment. Comparing product tampering response for "BRAND" protection of a valuable commercial product to a vast array of PSU employees and hangers on actively avoiding turning in a serial butt ducker of 10 year olds to protect the PSU "BRAND" is - I guess I can't think of a good enough word - WEAK is what I'll use 'cause that understates my reaction to your comment about as much as your above comment understates the actions of the PSU crew.

2nd sentence - so you have no question as to the precise words said by GA to Paterno, what was said at the meeting with AD and others, any conversation had by Paterno with anyone else in the PSU crew subsequently, what happened with the 1998 investigation and most importantly "WHAT DID PATERNO KNOW AND WHEN DID HE KNOW IT". I'm sure a lot of serial predators 1st exhibit this in actual action at the age of 5o something and the retirement was just for him to pursue his calling with no one in the PSU crew the wiser.

I'm not much of a fan of lawyers butt in this case hope the civil court system takes enough out of each of the PSU crew individually and collectively to make it really hurt (and you know where).

 

[upstater]

Believe one of the mothers reported to police.

How did she find out about it?

The 2002 victim is totally unknown.

All the information about that incident comes from the PSU people.

 

[upstater]

"If there is any lawsuit consideration really troubling the board, then they need to rethink thing--call the Tylenol guys for their advice" "The only question I still have about all of this is how the information about the 2002 incident was unearthed"

For the 1st sentence - pretty antiseptic type comment. Comparing product tampering response for "BRAND" protection of a valuable commercial product to a vast array of PSU employees and hangers on actively avoiding turning in a serial butt ducker of 10 year olds to protect the PSU "BRAND" is - I guess I can't think of a good enough word - WEAK is what I'll use 'cause that understates my reaction to your comment about as much as your above comment understates the actions of the PSU crew.

2nd sentence - so you have no question as to the precise words said by GA to Paterno, what was said at the meeting with AD and others, any conversation had by Paterno with anyone else in the PSU crew subsequently, what happened with the 1998 investigation and most importantly "WHAT DID PATERNO KNOW AND WHEN DID HE KNOW IT". I'm sure a lot of serial predators 1st exhibit this in actual action at the age of 5o something and the retirement was just for him to pursue his calling with no one in the PSU crew the wiser.

I'm not much of a fan of lawyers butt in this case hope the civil court system takes enough out of each of the PSU crew individually and collectively to make it really hurt (and you know where).

So many knee-jerk reactions on this board today, simply because I'm a PSU fan.

What I wrote is that there should be NO considerations of the lawsuit, and that they need to come clean--immediately. Just like the Tylenol case, where the company's decision is well known and often cited as a case study. You don't worry about lawsuits, you do the right thing ASAP. I know the Tylenol response may now be long forgotten, since the world is in CYA mode, but for years it was held up as a model response.

Your last bit about my second sentence is incomprehensible. What are you trying to say?

 

[freescooter]

There is a huge danger in any institution that people are more concerned with damagining the institution than they are with the victims. that is abundantly clear in th ecase of the catholic Church scandals...priest, bishops, cardinals liley even popes, were all more concerned with protecting the institutional church from having its reputation harmed than they were with the fact that kids were being raped. I have a sense that this case is very similar. Paterno and eveyone else involved became so concerned with trying to avoid damaging the reputation of Penn State football that they lost sight of the real issue. tha tsaid, I sort of agree with upstater that Paterno is something of an anachronism and very likely was neither comfortable nor maybe even completely "got" how serious this matter was. But certainly the AD and the VP should have gotten it. Just to be clear, I don't say that to excuse JoePa. He absolutely should have done the right thing.

I also don't quite get the 1998 situation...it sounds as if in that case the police were involved but their investigation didn't lead to charges? Is that correct?

 

[upstater]

There is a huge danger in any institution that people are more concerned with damagining the institution than they are with the victims. that is abundantly clear in th ecase of the catholic Church scandals...priest, bishops, cardinals liley even popes, were all more concerned with protecting the institutional church from having its reputation harmed than they were with the fact that kids were being raped. I have a sense that this case is very similar. Paterno and eveyone else involved became so concerned with trying to avoid damaging the reputation of Penn State football that they lost sight of the real issue. tha tsaid, I sort of agree with upstater that Paterno is something of an anachronism and very likely was neither comfortable nor maybe even completely "got" how serious this matter was. But certainly the AD and the VP should have gotten it. Just to be clear, I don't say that to excuse JoePa. He absolutely should have done the right thing.

I also don't quite get the 1998 situation...it sounds as if in that case the police were involved but their investigation didn't lead to charges? Is that correct?

First, I don't know how much protecting the university figured in the 2002 incident. After all, he wasn't a coach then. The news reports that Sandusky was a pedophile caught twice with boys came out three years ago, and there was no national firestorm. That tells me that the brand of PSU and the school was not in danger.

What is shocking here is the PSU cover-up and the graphic nature of the claims.

As for 1998, it was reported. Local police was involved, state child protection services investigated, and there was a sting run by the DA. Basically, Sandusky was invited to the home of the parents to talk about what he did in the shower. The police were in the house listening. They recorded him admitting that he hugged the boy, and that was what was reported as well by the eyewitness. I don't know why Child Protection and the DA let that go, but in retrospect this is what lead to Sandusky being pushed out as a coach.

 

[BugsyCT]

Upstater, I really feel for you and hundreds of thousands of people associated with Penn St. over this. It is not fair to the fans. I put the victims first, and this is a terrible crime though. Just wanted to put that out there. I cannot imagine this happening to a school I love.

Agreed. PSU fans & alumni who put their trust & allegiance in Paterno, the football program, and the PSU administration have every right to be outraged about this and should be demanding heads to roll.

 

[Mr.Phat]

I really don't understand how there's any other way to view this. I've read the PSU boards and some of their fans' defense of Paterno blows my mind.

Read the allegations and what factually transpired. Paterno was informed by one of his assistants that he observed Sandusky and a minor laying together in the shower. Sandusky maintained a presense on campus and had direct access to locker rooms and children for years after Paterno was informed of this.

I don't care how long he's coached or how much he is Penn State football. If I'm in charge Paterno doesn't even get to clear out his own office.

What I find lacks credibility is Paterno's insistence that he did not learn any details of what McQueary saw in the shower. If I heard this story involving a good friend and coaching colleague for 30 years I would want to know EXACTLY what the person saw. I just don't find it credible that Paterno listens to an assistant say he saw "something inappropriate" or whatever and not share details. Anyone would want to know details not because they would enjoy hearing them but to affirm the story of the eye witness to the crime, given how incredible the story is.

Public opinion is asserting that even if Paterno did not learn any details, the incident was gruesome and criminal enough that Paterno should have told the AD when Paterno reported what McQueary saw to call the cops and to let him know when they arrive because I want to talk to them too. And if the cops didn't show up within an hour Paterno would call them himself. We don't know a lot about this episode but I am wondering if Paterno ever followed up with the AD or finance guy who both heard the story to find out what was being done to get to the bottom of the issue.