For what it is worth

[nojokea4]

Frank, you are right in a sense, but BC's play by play guy was widely quoted in an on-air interview as indicating that one of BC's principal reasons for moving to the ACC was that they couldn't compete with UConn. Similar thing was said by the head of their alumni Association. Now that was in some respects a different situation, they were leaving rather than tryin got keep UConn out, and I get the difference. But clearly fear of the big dog from 90 miles down the road has been a motivation for a long while.

Does the reason why make us feel better about this if its fear?

I mean there are certainly competitive advantages we have over the beagles. Calhoun had more leash then the current powers that be up there would ever allow based on their attempt at public image and this could theoretically be duplicated in football. I think we are far less likely to have admissions hurdles or borderline disciplinary violations. Plus we have a ton more living alums and they are way more localized and are a state school so CT people have a connect MA people don't have with BCU, but isn't this "fear" the same thing as preserving a competitive advantage?

As to the initial move, regardless of what a play by play guy said (do you have a link to this out of curiousity?) i think the at the time 4-5 million or so dollars a year (from like 3 to 7) and fear of being in a conference without Miami was probably the driving force more than us.

 

[nojokea4]

I think the problem for Cuse and BC is this: they have to be sure that UConn doesn't get anywhere, or this blows up in their face.

Yes, it may suck competing against UConn for recruits all in the ACC. But, if UConn were to get into the BXII or B1G, suddenly you brought some combination of Michigan, Ohio State, Nebraska, Texas, Oklahoma into those recruiting grounds. Suddenly, you're game against Florida State or Clemson is upstaged on the same day down the road by a game against one of those schools.

If UConn never gets into a power conference, then this works for them; however, if the ACC were smart, once there was a chance that one of those two conference would come calling (and, right now it looks grim, sure), they need to invite UConn as fast as possible to ward them off. That Rutgers is in the B1G is a big enough mistake for the ACC...

I think this is true for the B1G not the B12. I think the B12 would obviously be a huge upgrade from the AAC but would still kind of stink in most ways.

 

[HuskyHawk]

It's not about weakness. It's about business. The Duke/UNC/NC State/Wake geographic concentration in the ACC is a relic from the past. If only Duke and UNC were in the ACC while NC State and Wake were on the outside looking in stuck in the AAC, Duke and UNC would never throw them a lifeline. That simply would never happen in the conference realignment landscape of today, so comparing their setup that was built on short bus rides in the 1950s to what leagues are looking at today is disingenuous.

From my outside viewpoint, it's really not that complicated. BC and, maybe to a lesser extent, Syracuse simply want to own what they consider to be their territory from a power conference standpoint. To the extent that they think UConn might encroach into that territory, it makes 100% business sense to block them out. This is hardly unique either in conference realignment or the business world in general. I understand the frustration from a UConn fan standpoint, but if I were running BC, there's absolutely NFW that I'd want to let UConn into the ACC. It does BC no good whatsoever (despite the claims that "regional interest" could be enhanced). Being "scared" has little to do with it. USC and UCLA aren't going to let in San Diego State into the Pac-12, Ohio State isn't going to let Cincinnati into the Big Ten, and Florida won't even let a legit football power and actual rival Florida State into the SEC. Heck, I'm sure a lot of UConn fans don't even want UMass in the AAC based on the exact same rationale that BC is using against UConn. There's very little difference with the BC/Syracuse situation (as they look at the "Northeast" as their market as opposed to a state or a particular market area). They simply don't have an incentive to help out who they perceive to be a direct competitor. Now, that doesn't mean that you have to be happy about it - I'm just saying that I can't see any very compelling reason for BC or Syracuse to budge if I was looking at it from their standpoints. It helps UConn out a LOT more than it helps them.

Frank, I think this is spot on, but misses one critical difference that I think is unique to New Engalnd or the NorthEast.

In Florida, in North Carolina, in Ohio, even in SoCal, there are already strong appetites for college football. In New England, BC is suffering due to both some huge mistakes in hiring because the landscape is poorly receptive to the sport in general. BC would benefit tremendously from growth in interest in the sport of college football in New England, and UConn could make that happen. So while I appreciate the stance they took, in this specific case it was short sighted and a mistake. They diminished interest in their own program as a result, at a time when it needs a boost. New Engalnders are astonishingly parochial, and Bostonians are the worst (I know, I married one). Fan interest at BC has been down since the ACC move. Cuse and Pitt will help, but a truly local rival is something BC desperately needs. It has it in spades in hockey, and not surprisingly, that's the sport that drives interest at BC.

So in this unique case, I think it helps BC as much as UConn. Hell, it would probably even drive the sport at the HS level and make the area a better recruiting ground.

 

[upstater]

Does the reason why make us feel better about this if its fear?

I mean there are certainly competitive advantages we have over the beagles. Calhoun had more leash then the current powers that be up there would ever allow based on their attempt at public image and this could theoretically be duplicated in football. I think we are far less likely to have admissions hurdles or borderline disciplinary violations. Plus we have a ton more living alums and they are way more localized and are a state school so CT people have a connect MA people don't have with BCU, but isn't this "fear" the same thing as preserving a competitive advantage?

As to the initial move, regardless of what a play by play guy said (do you have a link to this out of curiousity?) i think the at the time 4-5 million or so dollars a year (from like 3 to 7) and fear of being in a conference without Miami was probably the driving force more than us.

It's just the debate. Many loathe UConn and make the case that UConn is really an inferior school. Others, based on the reports we've been given, point out that UConn is blocked. That's the debate.

 

[06029]

Frank, I think this is spot on, but misses one critical difference that I think is unique to New Engalnd or the NorthEast.

In Florida, in North Carolina, in Ohio, even in SoCal, there are already strong appetites for college football. In New England, BC is suffering due to both some huge mistakes in hiring because the landscape is poorly receptive to the sport in general. BC would benefit tremendously from growth in interest in the sport of college football in New England, and UConn could make that happen. So while I appreciate the stance they took, in this specific case it was short sighted and a mistake. They diminished interest in their own program as a result, at a time when it needs a boost. New Engalnders are astonishingly parochial, and Bostonians are the worst (I know, I married one). Fan interest at BC has been down since the ACC move. Cuse and Pitt will help, but a truly local rival is something BC desperately needs. It has it in spades in hockey, and not surprisingly, that's the sport that drives interest at BC.

So in this unique case, I think it helps BC as much as UConn. Hell, it would probably even drive the sport at the HS level and make the area a better recruiting ground.

The primary reason for the decline in attendance at BC is the exact same reason it declined at Uconn, poor on field performance and brain dead coaching. When Matt Ryan was playing with a decent OC, the interest and attendance was there. Same as when Edsall had Uconn near the top of the BE. BC also stubbed their toe by implementing the worst conceived donor based seating plan ever, coupled with a 100% increase in parking fees and a declining economy, and you get the attendance slide.

Given the strength of the NE recruiting class last year and this year, I think that the HS level is growing. But BC and Uconn should be playing every year in every sport.

 

[Fishy]

It happened earlier than that. Pitt was a perfect fit for the ACC. The Big 12 had a very logical expansion block to WVU, Pitt, Cinci and Louisville, all of which are geographically coherent. The ACC should have added UConn and Rutgers long ago. If it had UConn and Rutgers now, instead of Pitt and Louisville, it would be better off. It would control the NY market.

There have been a lot of missteps in getting to where things are now.

There was such a logical path to expansion for the Big 12 and they fumbled it while Texas dithered.

Now they have a completely illogical path and will likely be forced to head down it eventually.

 

[auggie22]

Ithaca Matt, I won't mince words because I do not appreciate you on this board - at this time in particular - taking any stance against uconn. You are being a dick - are you smart enough to see this?

Since you are too dumb or sadistic to understand what most people see as obvious, I will go full mushroom cap ( because, frankly, this is my house not yours, and you saw it necessary to trespass ). Your university or town ( because who would be a fan of SU in this day and age if you were not one or the other ) is dying. Whatever happens to our athletic program, this much is certain. A non-description private school in Canada, for 50k a year, with declining admissions standards save for a broadcasting school, set in a city that would make a great location for a Walking Dead episode. No wonder you have to entice athletes with your lax interpretation of the legal code.

Your toothless fans talk about how Otto is taking over campus arenas all along the east cost, but really this is just people anxious to flee central New York.

You will one day soon see the day where a uconn athletic fan can gloat ( that day came a long time ago for the academic side ). My guess is we will be too busy living our lives to do so. Life moves quick here in civilization.

 

[whaler11]

Ithaca Matt, I won't mince words because I do not appreciate you on this board - at this time in particular - taking any stance against uconn. You are being a - are you smart enough to see this?

Since you are too dumb or sadistic to understand what most people see as obvious, I will go full mushroom cap ( because, frankly, this is my house not yours, and you saw it necessary to trespass ). Your university or town ( because who would be a fan of SU in this day and age if you were not one or the other ) is dying. Whatever happens to our athletic program, this much is certain. A non-description private school in Canada, for 50k a year, with declining admissions standards save for a broadcasting school, set in a city that would make a great location for a Walking Dead episode. No wonder you have to entice athletes with your lax interpretation of the legal code.

Your toothless fans talk about how Otto is taking over campus arenas all along the east cost, but really this is just people anxious to flee central New York.

You will one day soon see the day where a uconn athletic fan can gloat ( that day came a long time ago for the academic side ). My guess is we will be too busy living our lives to do so. Life moves quick here in civilization.

He's just playing you guys for these reactions. He may be stupid enough to brag about being from Ithaca but no one is dumb enough to post the nonsense he does.

 

[Alum86]

The primary reason for the decline in attendance at BC is the exact same reason it declined at Uconn, poor on field performance and brain dead coaching. When Matt Ryan was playing with a decent OC, the interest and attendance was there. Same as when Edsall had Uconn near the top of the BE. BC also stubbed their toe by implementing the worst conceived donor based seating plan ever, coupled with a 100% increase in parking fees and a declining economy, and you get the attendance slide.

Given the strength of the NE recruiting class last year and this year, I think that the HS level is growing. But BC and Uconn should be playing every year in every sport.

Right on the first part (how Chestnut Hill declined) and so wrong on the second. (Playing THE Jesuits in every sport each year).
On all things holy and at the altar of JC (Calhoun, not Jesus) NFW we associate with or play them. No a.. Kissing, networking with anything ACC, especially them.
They have d.cked us over too many times.

 

[06029]

Right on the first part (how Chestnut Hill declined) and so wrong on the second. (Playing THE Jesuits in every sport each year).
On all things holy and at the altar of JC (Calhoun, not Jesus) NFW we associate with or play them. No a.. Kissing, networking with anything ACC, especially them.
They have d.cked us over too many times.

So Uconn should forfeit the soccer, field hockey and baseball games they have played every year? How about the hockey east games that start next year? Time to stop being selective. And given the conference schedule coming up for Uconn, it is time to start an OOC i every sport. Move on. All things JC may have helped Uconn to be where they are today.

 

[Alum86]

Minor sports (hockey, baseball, soccer) who cares.
No hoop, no football. No way.

 

[06029]

Minor sports (hockey, baseball, soccer) who cares.
No hoop, no football. No way.

What get you in the stands - Uconn-Tulane, or Uconn-BC? To make it a little more relevant, since you could drive to both if they are away, Uconn-Umass or Uconn-BC? Try to be intellectually honest in your answer. And you know Uconn-BC in MBB is a distinct possibility next year.

 

[Alum86]

I honestly do not want BC at the Rent or Storrs or XL.
The ACC ship has sailed. They s@ck at hoop, and football they are in decline.
Plus they c@ck blocked us. Go Green Wave. the Jesuits

 

[alsacs]

I am SU undergrad/BC law alum so I know I am going to get hated, but I don't care. All business is personal, and if you hear differently that person is either a sap or not a realist. Syracuse-UConn have had a nice top 10 national rivalry in basketball since 1990 and you guys are a top 10 basketball brand, but SU-UConn is not even Syracuse's biggest rivalry that is Georgetown. Your ex-HOF coach Jim Calhoun during an interview with Andy Katz during the last SU-UConn said Syracuse is our biggest rival. While I respect and hate UConn basketball Jim Boeheim and the SU fanbase would not say the same thing about UConn and that is a fact. Basketball doesn't drive the boat in the power conference expansion and that is Football.
UConn fans want to behave like your football brand is as good as your basketball brand. Syracuse SUCKED absolutely SUCKED from 2005 till 2009 which is when UConn has played its best college football. If UConn had a history of Maryland, Purdue, Missouri, Arizona State in football their fate would be a lot differently. UConn has not surpassed Syracuse football nationally by winning the Big East BCS bid 1 time in 2009 and having a co-title in 2007? When UConn joined the Big East in 2004 you were a 2 star(out of 5) program nationally since that time you have beaten Syracuse, Pitt, Indiana, Notre Dame, Duke, Baylor, South Carolina,Louisvile, South Florida, West Virginia, Cincinnati, Maryland, Rutgers, Vanderbilt, Virginia which has bumped you up to a 3 star program nationally. During the entire time frame of Syracuse-UConn being conference mates in Big East football conference you have only challenged yourself twice in playing 5 star program Notre Dame and Michigan and you beat Notre Dame when they sucked as did Syracuse in 2008, and got crushed at Michigan. Who the hell is UConn to demand 1-1s off the bat when they don't have any history? Play Ohio State at the Horseshoe like Colorado did 2 years ago, take a 2-1 deal with top programs and earn the respect and teams won't regard UConn as a bad loss. Syracuse sucked under Greg Robinson and our creditability fell down because we flat out sucked, but we have still scheduled home/homes during that time with Penn State, Northwestern, Iowa, Minnesota, USC, Illinois, Florida State, Washington. In 2007 when Greg Robinson team was on the hotseat we scheduled Washington, Iowa, Illinois to start the season UConn scheduled Duke, Maine, Temple. Gee, I wonder who was more successful?
Of course UConn's improvements have been impressive, but color me unimpressed and the fact you expect Syracuse and Boston College to value you as rivals isn't fair to those schools as your rival is Rutgers since both of you are state flagship universities from the Tri-State area while Boston College and Syracuse are private universities. Syracuse and Boston College feel no natural rivalry with UConn because both are private schools and UConn is a state flagship university you can dispute that all you want, but it won't change the fact that in football we don't "hate" your school. Work behind the scenes repair damage as much as you can with Boston College, but realize Frank the Tank has nailed his analysis about teams protecting their turf. TCU was in the Southwest conference until it blew up and they had a history in football with Sammy Baugh, Davey O'Brien and more recently LaDainian Tomlinson and that program worked its way from Conference USA to the Big XII without being awarded a slot in the BCS because of association to football schools that its non-football team had. It can be done for UConn, but you have to go play teams on the road like TCU went into Death Valley and beat Clemson, went to Norman and ended Oklahoma's home winning streak do that and UConn will get an invitation. I am not going to tell the UConn fanbase not to be bitter as you have a legitimate and undisputed right to be angry, hurt, at the ACC turning you down, and taking a lot of teams but as I said above all business is personal.

 

[zls44]

I am SU undergrad/BC law alum so I know I am going to get hated, but I don't care. All business is personal, and if you hear differently that person is either a sap or not a realist. Syracuse-UConn have had a nice top 10 national rivalry in basketball since 1990 and you guys are a top 10 basketball brand, but SU-UConn is not even Syracuse's biggest rivalry that is Georgetown. Your ex-HOF coach Jim Calhoun during an interview with Andy Katz during the last SU-UConn said Syracuse is our biggest rival. While I respect and hate UConn basketball Jim Boeheim and the SU fanbase would not say the same thing about UConn and that is a fact. Basketball doesn't drive the boat in the power conference expansion and that is Football.
UConn fans want to behave like your football brand is as good as your basketball brand. Syracuse SUCKED absolutely SUCKED from 2005 till 2009 which is when UConn has played its best college football. If UConn had a history of Maryland, Purdue, Missouri, Arizona State in football their fate would be a lot differently. UConn has not surpassed Syracuse football nationally by winning the Big East BCS bid 1 time in 2009 and having a co-title in 2007? When UConn joined the Big East in 2004 you were a 2 star(out of 5) program nationally since that time you have beaten Syracuse, Pitt, Indiana, Notre Dame, Duke, Baylor, South Carolina,Louisvile, South Florida, West Virginia, Cincinnati, Maryland, Rutgers, Vanderbilt, Virginia which has bumped you up to a 3 star program nationally. During the entire time frame of Syracuse-UConn being conference mates in Big East football conference you have only challenged yourself twice in playing 5 star program Notre Dame and Michigan and you beat Notre Dame when they sucked as did Syracuse in 2008, and got crushed at Michigan. Who the hell is UConn to demand 1-1s off the bat when they don't have any history? Play Ohio State at the Horseshoe like Colorado did 2 years ago, take a 2-1 deal with top programs and earn the respect and teams won't regard UConn as a bad loss. Syracuse sucked under Greg Robinson and our creditability fell down because we flat out sucked, but we have still scheduled home/homes during that time with Penn State, Northwestern, Iowa, Minnesota, USC, Illinois, Florida State, Washington. In 2007 when Greg Robinson team was on the hotseat we scheduled Washington, Iowa, Illinois to start the season UConn scheduled Duke, Maine, Temple. Gee, I wonder who was more successful?
Of course UConn's improvements have been impressive, but color me unimpressed and the fact you expect Syracuse and Boston College to value you as rivals isn't fair to those schools as your rival is Rutgers since both of you are state flagship universities from the Tri-State area while Boston College and Syracuse are private universities. Syracuse and Boston College feel no natural rivalry with UConn because both are private schools and UConn is a state flagship university you can dispute that all you want, but it won't change the fact that in football we don't "hate" your school. Work behind the scenes repair damage as much as you can with Boston College, but realize Frank the Tank has nailed his analysis about teams protecting their turf. TCU was in the Southwest conference until it blew up and they had a history in football with Sammy Baugh, Davey O'Brien and more recently LaDainian Tomlinson and that program worked its way from Conference USA to the Big XII without being awarded a slot in the BCS because of association to football schools that its non-football team had. It can be done for UConn, but you have to go play teams on the road like TCU went into Death Valley and beat Clemson, went to Norman and ended Oklahoma's home winning streak do that and UConn will get an invitation. I am not going to tell the UConn fanbase not to be bitter as you have a legitimate and undisputed right to be angry, hurt, at the ACC turning you down, and taking a lot of teams but as I said above all business is personal.

How can someone go to BC and Syracuse yet be unfamiliar with paragraphs and punctuation?

 

[Alum86]

Thanks alsacs, for your time. As a reward, please take your old head coach off our hands. Troll.

 

[zls44]

Who the hell is UConn to demand 1-1s off the bat when they don't have any history?

Ask Boise State. Or Michigan. Or Tennessee.

All programs that would have had every right to stand by tradition and not offer a 1-1...but they did it.

 

[upstater]

I am SU undergrad/BC law alum so I know I am going to get hated, but I don't care. All business is personal, and if you hear differently that person is either a sap or not a realist. Syracuse-UConn have had a nice top 10 national rivalry in basketball since 1990 and you guys are a top 10 basketball brand, but SU-UConn is not even Syracuse's biggest rivalry that is Georgetown. Your ex-HOF coach Jim Calhoun during an interview with Andy Katz during the last SU-UConn said Syracuse is our biggest rival. While I respect and hate UConn basketball Jim Boeheim and the SU fanbase would not say the same thing about UConn and that is a fact.

I'm not going to bother reading the rest. What you portray as a fact is not a fact. Evidence? The Syracuse basketball board where this issue was brought up. The majority of the fans mentioned UConn, probably because of the FACT that Georgetown made one Final 8 in 20 years between the late 80s and late 2000s.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

I am SU undergrad/BC law alum so I know I am going to get hated, but I don't care. All business is personal, and if you hear differently that person is either a sap or not a realist. Syracuse-UConn have had a nice top 10 national rivalry in basketball since 1990 and you guys are a top 10 basketball brand, but SU-UConn is not even Syracuse's biggest rivalry that is Georgetown. Your ex-HOF coach Jim Calhoun during an interview with Andy Katz during the last SU-UConn said Syracuse is our biggest rival. While I respect and hate UConn basketball Jim Boeheim and the SU fanbase would not say the same thing about UConn and that is a fact. Basketball doesn't drive the boat in the power conference expansion and that is Football.
UConn fans want to behave like your football brand is as good as your basketball brand. Syracuse SUCKED absolutely SUCKED from 2005 till 2009 which is when UConn has played its best college football. If UConn had a history of Maryland, Purdue, Missouri, Arizona State in football their fate would be a lot differently. UConn has not surpassed Syracuse football nationally by winning the Big East BCS bid 1 time in 2009 and having a co-title in 2007? When UConn joined the Big East in 2004 you were a 2 star(out of 5) program nationally since that time you have beaten Syracuse, Pitt, Indiana, Notre Dame, Duke, Baylor, South Carolina,Louisvile, South Florida, West Virginia, Cincinnati, Maryland, Rutgers, Vanderbilt, Virginia which has bumped you up to a 3 star program nationally. During the entire time frame of Syracuse-UConn being conference mates in Big East football conference you have only challenged yourself twice in playing 5 star program Notre Dame and Michigan and you beat Notre Dame when they sucked as did Syracuse in 2008, and got crushed at Michigan. Who the hell is UConn to demand 1-1s off the bat when they don't have any history? Play Ohio State at the Horseshoe like Colorado did 2 years ago, take a 2-1 deal with top programs and earn the respect and teams won't regard UConn as a bad loss. Syracuse sucked under Greg Robinson and our creditability fell down because we flat out sucked, but we have still scheduled home/homes during that time with Penn State, Northwestern, Iowa, Minnesota, USC, Illinois, Florida State, Washington. In 2007 when Greg Robinson team was on the hotseat we scheduled Washington, Iowa, Illinois to start the season UConn scheduled Duke, Maine, Temple. Gee, I wonder who was more successful?
Of course UConn's improvements have been impressive, but color me unimpressed and the fact you expect Syracuse and Boston College to value you as rivals isn't fair to those schools as your rival is Rutgers since both of you are state flagship universities from the Tri-State area while Boston College and Syracuse are private universities. Syracuse and Boston College feel no natural rivalry with UConn because both are private schools and UConn is a state flagship university you can dispute that all you want, but it won't change the fact that in football we don't "hate" your school. Work behind the scenes repair damage as much as you can with Boston College, but realize Frank the Tank has nailed his analysis about teams protecting their turf. TCU was in the Southwest conference until it blew up and they had a history in football with Sammy Baugh, Davey O'Brien and more recently LaDainian Tomlinson and that program worked its way from Conference USA to the Big XII without being awarded a slot in the BCS because of association to football schools that its non-football team had. It can be done for UConn, but you have to go play teams on the road like TCU went into Death Valley and beat Clemson, went to Norman and ended Oklahoma's home winning streak do that and UConn will get an invitation. I am not going to tell the UConn fanbase not to be bitter as you have a legitimate and undisputed right to be angry, hurt, at the ACC turning you down, and taking a lot of teams but as I said above all business is personal.

I completely agree that conference realignment is all business, which is one of the key issues. Historically college sports have always been about the personal, i.e. rivalries. The hatred/respect between schools like USC/UCLA, Texas/Oklahoma, ND/Miami, Michigan/Ohio State, Duke/UNC, Army/Navy have driven fan interest, which has driven the money. Most of that has now been throw away.
UConn’s biggest gripe is with how the ACC has acted. Once the Big E began to die, which was inevitable due to the conflict between the football and non-football schools, the target to get into the ACC has been a moving target that, at least perceptually, has always seemed to move in the direction that hurts UConn the most. First, it was that our football team was too ‘new.’ Thus, BC, Virginia tech, and Miami go to the ACC. So, UConn beat S Carolina in a bowl and then loses to Oklahoma in a BCS game (the argument over UConn’s attendance at the Fiesta was a joke as the BCS mandated travel ‘package’ was armed robbery, if my son was not born that year, I would have gone on my own with and saved 50%). Then, it was because CT sued the ACC and UConn’s basketball program was in probation. Thus, Pitt and Syracuse go to the ACC. So, UConn wins yet more basketball titles, cleans-up some of the crap, and watches as everyone else left in the Big E sues the ACC. Now, it is because Louisville is a better sports school, even if we beat them in Louisville in football, went to-to-toe with them with a probation riddled men’s team, and watched our women’s team rout them for the title. It just sucks.
As for Syracuse, I have always enjoyed the rivalry as I spent a lot of time in upstate NY as a teen and have many friends from there and from HS who went to Syracuse. The only thing I am really upset with Syracuse with is giving us Coach P. While UConn’s natural rivalry should be Rutgers, no one will ever know as realignment has quashed it early, as it did with BC and Syracuse. As for Syracuse itself, I would agree that historically it has been G-Town. That said, the UConn matches better with Syracuse (size, football schools, NYC competition, etc.) and for most of the 2000’s, the Big E game was UConn and Syracuse as G-Town had slid for a bit in hoops. I doubt any college sporting event that I will go to in my life will be better than the environment, passion, insanity of the 6 OT Big E tournament game between UConn and Syracuse at MSG back in 2009 that I screamed through for almost 4 hours.

 

[Carl Spackler]

An SU undergrad, BC law alum has both the time and interest to come and post a paragraph like that here. HMMMM.

The University of Connecticut in 1979 was a lot, A LOT different than it is now. It was a lot different then, also, than places like Syracuse University and Boston College University. In the 33 years since that the Big EAst conference existed, UCONN has become THE premiere public school in the northeast USA. In 2013, the University of Connecticut is a lot, a LOT different than it was in 1979, and also continues to be a lot different than Syracuse University and Boston College University. There are dozens and dozens of ways you can measure the changes over a shade longer than 3 decades.

When you look at all those different ways you can meausre changes, from academics, to facilities, to infrasturcture, to athletics, the only and I mean ONLY thing that a place like Syracuse and BC can look at UCONN and not feel completely inferior, is in the university endowment level. And that's got to be making people that look at such things nervous too, becuase we finally after three decades of phenomenal growth tangibly, visibiliy, have leadership that realize that we need to get the bank accounts pumped up too, adn they're working on it - successfully......

UCONN has lost the regular conference matchups in men's basketball that were built up over the past 3 decades. UCONN has lost the men's basketball tournament at MSG. Those things hurt. Other than that, there are no traditional rivalries in football - YET - for UCONN at this level of competition, and this isn't news to UCONN fans. YEt we've got two league titles and a BCS berth since we started playing at this level. Women's basketball, dominated the Big East, and national competition was where it really is at, and there's no loss there.

The funny thing, to me, about these Cuse and BC clowns that come here, is that they seem to fail to realize, that the biggest things, that UCONN has lost (the regular conference matchups in mens' big east basketball, and the tournament at MSG) - are also the same things that Syracuse and BC have lost.

Money comes and goes, but those things are gone forever - for Cuse, UCONN, and BC.

I hope your law practice is sucessful enough that you have plenty of time on your hands.

have a nice day.

 

[SectionKK]

An SU undergrad, BC law alum has both the time and interest to come and post a paragraph like that here. HMMMM.

The University of Connecticut in 1979 was a lot, A LOT different than it is now. It was a lot different then, also, than places like Syracuse University and Boston College University. In the 33 years since that the Big EAst conference existed, UCONN has become THE premiere public school in the northeast USA. In 2013, the University of Connecticut is a lot, a LOT different than it was in 1979, and also continues to be a lot different than Syracuse University and Boston College University. There are dozens and dozens of ways you can measure the changes over a shade longer than 3 decades.

When you look at all those different ways you can meausre changes, from academics, to facilities, to infrasturcture, to athletics, the only and I mean ONLY thing that a place like Syracuse and BC can look at UCONN and not feel completely inferior, is in the university endowment level. And that's got to be making people that look at such things nervous too, becuase we finally after three decades of phenomenal growth tangibly, visibiliy, have leadership that realize that we need to get the bank accounts pumped up too, adn they're working on it - successfully......

UCONN has lost the regular conference matchups in men's basketball that were built up over the past 3 decades. UCONN has lost the men's basketball tournament at MSG. Those things hurt. Other than that, there are no traditional rivalries in football - YET - for UCONN at this level of competition, and this isn't news to UCONN fans. YEt we've got two league titles and a BCS berth since we started playing at this level. Women's basketball, dominated the Big East, and national competition was where it really is at, and there's no loss there.

The funny thing, to me, about these Cuse and BC clowns that come here, is that they seem to fail to realize, that the biggest things, that UCONN has lost (the regular conference matchups in mens' big east basketball, and the tournament at MSG) - are also the same things that Syracuse and BC have lost.

Money comes and goes, but those things are gone forever - for Cuse, UCONN, and BC.

I hope your law practice is sucessful enough that you have plenty of time on your hands.

have a nice day.

Please explain how BC is academically inferior to UConn. It's illusions of grandeur like this that cause BC alums (like me), and Syracuse alums for that matter, to think that so many UConn fans are delusional. UConn is good school academically speaking, but how can you say it is superior in every measurable way to BC? You do realize that's a crazy statement, right? I live in Connecticut. I went to graduate school at UConn. I know the university pretty well. It's a nice school that his improved a lot in the last 15 years. Also, on the endowment front, to put things in perspective, BC raised more money during the "quiet phase" of its latest $1.5B capital campaign (i.e., before the campaign was even formally announced) than UConn has in its entire endowment. UConn has done a lot, but it has a ways to go if it wants to be on the same level of elite public universities like Michigan or Virginia. (Note: I fully expect to be called a troll, but in all honesty, I enjoy reading this board from time to time because I live in Connecticut and am very interested in conference realignment. It is only against my better judgment that I've chosen to respond to a post.)

 

[Carl Spackler]

Please explain how BC is academically inferior to UConn. It's illusions of grandeur like this that cause BC alums (like me), and Syracuse alums for that matter, to think that so many UConn fans are delusional. UConn is good school academically speaking, but how can you say it is superior in every measurable way to BC? You do realize that's a crazy statement, right? I live in Connecticut. I went to graduate school at UConn. I know the university pretty well. It's a nice school that his improved a lot in the last 15 years. Also, on the endowment front, to put things in perspective, BC raised more money during the "quiet phase" of its latest $1.5B capital campaign (i.e., before the campaign was even formally announced) than UConn has in its entire endowment. UConn has done a lot, but it has a ways to go if it wants to be on the same level of elite public universities like Michigan or Virginia. (Note: I fully expect to be called a troll, but in all honesty, I enjoy reading this board from time to time because I live in Connecticut and am very interested in conference realignment. It is only against my better judgment that I've chosen to respond to a post.)

Instead of me doing all the research and writing up a decent piece of work using my UCONN degree, for your entertainment, why don't you show me exactly what you're capable of. The SU undergrad and BC law graduate didn't impress me.

 

[upstater]

Please explain how BC is academically inferior to UConn. It's illusions of grandeur like this that cause BC alums (like me), and Syracuse alums for that matter, to think that so many UConn fans are delusional. UConn is good school academically speaking, but how can you say it is superior in every measurable way to BC? You do realize that's a crazy statement, right? I live in Connecticut. I went to graduate school at UConn. I know the university pretty well. It's a nice school that his improved a lot in the last 15 years. Also, on the endowment front, to put things in perspective, BC raised more money during the "quiet phase" of its latest $1.5B capital campaign (i.e., before the campaign was even formally announced) than UConn has in its entire endowment. UConn has done a lot, but it has a ways to go if it wants to be on the same level of elite public universities like Michigan or Virginia. (Note: I fully expect to be called a troll, but in all honesty, I enjoy reading this board from time to time because I live in Connecticut and am very interested in conference realignment. It is only against my better judgment that I've chosen to respond to a post.)

First, it's delusions of grandeur. And secondly, why would you rate Syracuse ahead of UConn? Who else does?

 

[SectionKK]

First, it's delusions of grandeur. And secondly, why would you rate Syracuse ahead of UConn? Who else does?

You're right on the illusions/delusions distinction. Good call. I can be pretty bad at idioms.

I wasn't really talking as much about the difference between Syracuse and UConn. I guess US News has them pretty close, with Syracuse slightly ahead. I consider them both to be similar, though I'd probably agree that Syracuse is a slightly better school. Really, I was talking more about BC. Obviously I'm biased, and I don't want to really get into the debate over which is a "better" school (although, Carl, every mainstream ranking has BC well ahead of both, e.g., BC is #31 in US News versus UConn as #63). My real point was that saying UConn is better academically in every measurableway than BC is an absurd thing to say. It has no basis in reality.

 

[upstater]

You're right on the illusions/delusions distinction. Good call. I can be pretty bad at idioms.

I wasn't really talking as much about the difference between Syracuse and UConn. I guess US News has them pretty close, with Syracuse slightly ahead. I consider them both to be similar, though I'd probably agree that Syracuse is a slightly better school. Really, I was talking more about BC. Obviously I'm biased, and I don't want to really get into the debate over which is a "better" school (although, Carl, every mainstream ranking has BC well ahead of both, e.g., BC is #31 in US News versus UConn as #63). My real point was that saying UConn is better academically in every measurableway than BC is an absurd thing to say. It has no basis in reality.

Of the three, BC is the hardest to get into. Then UConn. Then Syracuse. UConn has higher admission standards than SU and higher average SATs.

 

[frankthetank]

I have no dog in this BC/Syracuse/UConn academic quarrel. For my own kids (who are 15 years away from college age, so it will be awhile), I would advise them to go to a flagship public university for undergrad as opposed to paying private school tuition unless it's Ivy League caliber (where the benefits are very clear). Personally, I think that generally gives you the best ROI for your education.

However, if money is no issue, then the national academic perception of BC is definitely the strongest of that group when it comes to undergrad and then Syracuse and UConn are generally viewed on the same tier. The admissions stats for those schools support that perception. For the purposes of conference realignment, I like to say that a lot of fans always underestimate how much university presidents overestimate the value of BC - they all *love* the thought of being in the Boston market and really like BC's academic profile and tradition, regardless of how crappy of a college sports town Boston might be. Just because it's not a top graduate research school (which is what the Big Ten is generally looking for) doesn't detract from the fact that BC's academic reputation is actually fairly high nationally for undergrad. At the same time, BC actually does draw pretty good TV ratings nationally considering their performance on-the-field. They're not a headliner-type team like Michigan/Notre Dame/Alabama, but BC vs. a headliner-type team is a better national TV matchup than most when it comes to ratings history. They're kind of a poor man's Miami in this regard, where local interest and attendance might be terrible yet they draw enough national TV eyeballs that they're perceived to be an upper tier TV property. Whether it's fair or not, there will always be a power conference that will take a flier on BC for those reasons.

 

[upstater]

I have no dog in this BC/Syracuse/UConn academic quarrel. For my own kids (who are 15 years away from college age, so it will be awhile), I would advise them to go to a flagship public university for undergrad as opposed to paying private school tuition unless it's Ivy League caliber (where the benefits are very clear). Personally, I think that generally gives you the best ROI for your education.

However, if money is no issue, then the national academic perception of BC is definitely the strongest of that group when it comes to undergrad and then Syracuse and UConn are generally viewed on the same tier. The admissions stats for those schools support that perception. For the purposes of conference realignment, I like to say that a lot of fans always underestimate how much university presidents overestimate the value of BC - they all *love* the thought of being in the Boston market and really like BC's academic profile and tradition, regardless of how crappy of a college sports town Boston might be. Just because it's not a top graduate research school (which is what the Big Ten is generally looking for) doesn't detract from the fact that BC's academic reputation is actually fairly high nationally for undergrad. At the same time, BC actually does draw pretty good TV ratings nationally considering their performance on-the-field. They're not a headliner-type team like Michigan/Notre Dame/Alabama, but BC vs. a headliner-type team is a better national TV matchup than most when it comes to ratings history. They're kind of a poor man's Miami in this regard, where local interest and attendance might be terrible yet they draw enough national TV eyeballs that they're perceived to be an upper tier TV property. Whether it's fair or not, there will always be a power conference that will take a flier on BC for those reasons.

Personally, I'm not as high on BC's academics because of the reasons you mentioned at the start of your post (and I acknowledge you wrote that people overrate them). I went to school in Boston and my wife went undergrad at BC, so I have inside knowledge of the place. Very good school, but not anywhere near say a Tufts.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Hot damn you people, I've got no problem admitting when I'm wrong (it's rare when I am) when I'm proven to be wrong. I made a pretty big claim for sure, and it drew a bug from the woodwork, but you guys are doing his work for him.

It's rare to find one of these boston college or syracuse people that show up around here that actually are intellectually worth anything. I wasn't impressed with the first one at all, and this second one, is getting his work done for him - which if that is an intentional thing in the real world - is a pretty intelligent thing to be able to do - to get others to work for you, but don't do it here.

I want to see the BC guy (who did his graduate work at UCONN) write a decent piece describing how superior Boston College Univeristy is, as compared to the University of Connecticut.

 

[SectionKK]

Hot damn you people, I've got no problem admitting when I'm wrong (it's rare when I am) when I'm proven to be wrong. I made a pretty big claim for sure, and it drew a bug from the woodwork, but you guys are doing his work for him.

It's rare to find one of these boston college or syracuse people that show up around here that actually are intellectually worth anything. I wasn't impressed with the first one at all, and this second one, is getting his work done for him - which if that is an intentional thing in the real world - is a pretty intelligent thing to be able to do - to get others to work for you, but don't do it here.

I want to see the BC guy (who did his graduate work at UCONN) write a decent piece describing how superior Boston College Univeristy is, as compared to the University of Connecticut.

It's tough to compare a public research university to a private, Catholic, liberal arts university. BC is not trying to be UConn, and vise versa. BC is also much more expensive, and you could probably make a good case that UConn has a better ROI (as Frank referenced). But by most measures—rankings, prestige/reputation, selectivity, facilities/campus, location—BC is a better school. I really have no interest in getting into an academic pissing match between BC and UConn. Again, I just thought it was crazy to say UConn was better in every measurable way (except endowment, which is a big caveat) than BC.

I also appreciate Frank's take on BC as an outsider. He's mostly right. It does do surprisingly (even to me) well on TV for how small the school is. There are worse things than being a poor man's Miami when it comes to national perception.

 

[alsacs]

Carl,
Nowhere in my post did I mention academics. My post was in reference to the UConn posters in this thread that thought a 5 year stretch where Syracuse sucked epic proportions and UConn was at best mediocre nationally somehow gave your fanbase the perception that nationally UConn football was better than Syracuse. Again, I pointed out that from 2004 to present when you guys have joined the Big East Football Conference you have only played 3 big boys in Football Michigan Notre Dame, and Oklahoma in the Fiesta Bowl. You beat a crappy Notre Dame team in South Bend which even Greg Robinson did at Syracuse and got killed by Michigan and Oklahoma.

Your fans are overrating your football brand was my point. Your basketball brand is elite, but ask Kansas where they would be if Big XII blew up? Either with the AAC schools or in the Mountain West. I think UConn, Syracuse, and Boston College all have fine academic insitutions, and could care less about getting into a pissing match about that. Syracuse is going to continue playing in MSG as St. John's and Villanova have both scheduled games at MSG in the 2 of the next 3 seasons. Syracuse will play in the Jimmy V Classic, and other preseason tournaments at MSG. The only negative of moving to the ACC is losing the Big East Basketball Tournament, but the ACC will probably make NYC a part of its rotation.

Frank the tank and his blog has been neutral in analyzing these moves and I understand you are UConn fans and going to see thinks in your light, but I was getting tired of Syracuse bashing. Our football brand and the fact we didn't ruffle any ACC members feathers, and ESPN renegotiation clause caused ACC to expand helped SU. If UConn was the best option for the ACC they would have been selected even if BC, Miami objected. Pitt was a viable alternative the first time, and Florida State cashed in its political capital the second time and got Louisville. Talk academics I could careless my S.I. Newhouse degree and Boston College Law degree look good no matter how much better a UConn degree is.