OT: - European Soccer Super League | Page 4 | The Boneyard

OT: European Soccer Super League

Perez said Bayern and PSG weren't even invited, what a joke. Let's have a super league but not invite some of the best teams in Europe...Ok.

6 premiership teams but none from Germany or France. How super can you be when you're missing an arm and a leg?
 
This, but you have one thing backwards. This is the big clubs wanting a bigger cut from FIFA and UEFA.

As for legality, it might vary from nation to nation but since domestic leagues have strict controls on them over how many foreign players are allowed and the FA's are licensed by the government. They can absolutely deny work permits and tax breaks to players and teams that participate, even if they can't ban them outright, which I think they could.

What I meant by FIFA wanting their cut is if the Super League is truly being set up as an alternative tournament to the Champions League FIFA making the threats they are making is solely due to them losing money, not for keeping the beautiful game going. I agree with everything you said though.
 
Perez said Bayern and PSG weren't even invited, what a joke. Let's have a super league but not invite some of the best teams in Europe...Ok.

6 premiership teams but none from Germany or France. How super can you be when you're missing an arm and a leg?
PSG and Bayern both came out and said they rejected the invite (along with Dortmund).
 
Since 2000, 56 of the 60 league titles from Italy/Spain/England have been won by the Super League teams. It seems to me that the best way to restore balance and competitiveness to those domestic leagues is actually by letting those clubs walk away and form their own league.

The other solution is implementing a salary cap...which would likely result in those same top clubs wanting their own league to avoid it lol.
 
I'm a huge soccer guy. As long as FIFA maintains a hard line, this will never hold up.
 
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The EPL would cease to exist if they banned their top 6 clubs. They have absolutely zero leverage over them and the clubs know it
That’s not true. Games would go on and fans would still support their teams. TV rights would bring in less money, I suppose.
 
I get the feeling the German and French clubs are waiting to see how this plays out. If the league does go forward you better believe the top clubs will be looking to be apart of this, the money will be too much to turn down.

The interesting thing will be the 5 teams that can be relegated. How will this be decided? If FIFA and the domestic leagues begin banning teams for participating in the Super League and the 5 teams are rotating in and out will the domestic leagues accept them back if they are relegated? What will happen if they do not? Another league will have to be formed for the teams that cannot play domestically and have been relegated from the Super League.
For the first time ever, I do believe the super league will happen. Usually, the super league is floated as a negotiating tactic by the big clubs to get what they what in champions league negotiations but they announced this after the champions league negotiations were completed. It is terrible idea centered around greed but it will happen.

With regards to the other five teams, my guess is that the 54 domestic champions (highest-ranked non-ESL club in the top five leagues) will compete in a qualifying tournament to determine the five spots so that part of the competition will be meritocratic. Realistically this means that Leicester (3rd in the Premier League) would get the EPL's qualifying spot and face a potential path of say Zalgiris (Lithuania), Cracovia (Poland), and Shakhtar Donetsk (Ukraine) to get in. Highly doable.

P.S. PSG, Dortmund, and Bayern will all cave.

Also, the SL clubs will remain in their domestic leagues and FIFA's threat to ban players from the World Cup will be in vain legally.
 
let me explain how a genuine and passionate soccer fan is going to react to this, e.g., me.

i've been a man city fan since i was a lad because my great grandfather was from england and that was his club and therefore my grandfather's as well. if city joins the superleague i would stop rooting for them tomorrow. i'm also a team USA fan when it comes to international tourney time. if christian pulisic stayed on chelsea after they moved to the superleague, i'd donate his jersey to charity, he would be replaced on team USA if FIFA upholds their threatened ban, and everything would be fine. i'd root for team usa just as passionately as if our best player was still on the team.

this should not come as a surprise to anyone. almost every one of these club's biggest fan groups has already come out condemning this move and treating it as a betrayal of everything that is holy
I think your reaction is genuine and similar to most "Big Six" supporters. But I disagree about one thing. The outrage is real, however, I will bet you a 12 pack of Rolling Rock that City's first home girl, vs Barcelona or Juventus or Real or whovever would be sold out. As mad as most City fans are, they will still show up, support their team, and move on. Although I agree they may bitch about it for the next 100 years.
 
This proposal is a disgrace. However, there is no loyalty, respect, and values in hyper vulture global capitalism. Monopolies created at the expense of the regular Joe serfs. The ugly masks are being taken off. Rich getting richer. These type of garbage making this announcement in a worldwide pandemic is even more malicious.

Capitalist greed and selfishness knows no bounds. Actions like this will hasten the demise of the existing order. No respect for values, traditions, culture, and for individual nations.

This is the same reason I am against amateur basketball mercenaries, and the same disgraceful actions taking place in American sports and every other sphere.

#SupportFIFA
#SupportUEFA
 
Here is an update from the Times or London.

At least one of the “big six” English clubs is considering whether to withdraw from the new Super League after being taken aback by the volume of opposition, including from their fans.

Uefa has left the door open for any of the 12 Super League clubs to change their minds, and this morning Aleksander Ceferin, its president, made a direct approach to the English clubs.

European Super League: One of English ‘big six’ could withdraw after backlash from fans | News | The Times
 
This proposal is a disgrace. However, there is no loyalty, respect, and values in hyper vulture global capitalism. Monopolies created at the expense of the regular Joe serfs. The ugly masks are being taken off. Rich getting richer. These type of garbage making this announcement in a worldwide pandemic is even more malicious.

Capitalist greed and selfishness knows no bounds. Actions like this will hasten the demise of the existing order. No respect for values, traditions, culture, and for individual nations.

This is the same reason I am against amateur basketball mercenaries, and the same disgraceful actions taking place in American sports and every other sphere.

#SupportFIFA
#SupportUEFA
I hate the idea of the Super League and would rather the system in place stay as it is, but you can't make that point and end it with a "#SupportFIFA". They changed the football calendar around by shifting the next World Cup to the winter just so they could cash in playing the games in a country with no tradition but deeeeeeeeep pockets. And by the way, when I say cash in I don't even mean in the same sense that the Super League owners are making a cutthroat business move, I mean by accepting literal bribes to grease the wheels .
 
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Follow-up question. This isn't me picking a fight. My son and I have gotten into international soccer for a while. Primarily EPL. He's a big Man U guys (because his first soccer coach was a fanatic). I have less rooting interest. I've come to enjoy the set-up of the league with relegation. I didn't love a lack of playoff because the champion is generally a foregone conclusion a month or two before the end of the season. But the Champion's League and Europa League qualification helps.

Other than the qualification slots changing, what's the big difference in what is proposed? The big 5 wouldn't share in their new league profits, so that's a hit. They'd need to revise Champion's League qualifications and you could have a team totally mailing it in during a difficult season because they won't lose their spot in the new league.

But I'm clearly missing the death knell that everyone assumes this would result in. This wouldn't be like the top of the P5 leaving their leagues. It would be like those teams setting up their own football playoff. It kind of sucks for the other teams knowing they couldn't make that playoff, but it's only a dream for them to make it now.

It's a direct competitor (kill shot) to the UEFA Champions League. On its own, or as the big clubs see it, there's no problem. The founding 15 clubs are the most marketable, they can invite the hot clubs of the moment, gain the same eyeballs and get more of the money for themselves which will make their clubs better, keeping them at the top of the heap. Capitalism in the raw.

The problem is that UEFA, and by extention, FIFA run the champions league. The money, goes to fund global soccer. Smaller clubs, smaller leagues, lower divisions and domestic leagues in smaller nations. That's the window dressing, it's about money, and who receives it.

The other problem is that currently you have to earn your way into the Champions League, Europa league, etc. While many of these 15 clubs are UEFA tournament regulars, 5 of the EPL 6 are almost always in them most years, these clubs are no granting themselves a permanent seat at the table.

This has trickle down implications for the domestic leagues, especially the EPL. These clubs will now have resources that dwarf the domestic competition by a factor greater than they do currently at a multiple that would make the SEC/B1G blush with envy. It would effectively kill the prospects of any team making a legit run at a title, league cup or FA cup. The Leicester City or even Man City before they were Man City from winning. These domestic cups are essentially playoffs. If you can't win the league, winning a trophy is still a very big deal in European soccer.

The FIFA and the have nots are fighting back by threatening to excommunicate any clubs or players who join the new league from global soccer, incl the world cup and the domestic leagues.

It makes the CFB realignments from 20 years ago look like a school yard staring contest.
 
.-.
This has disaster written all over it.

As a fan, the worst case scenario is for UEFA/FIFA to make up and somehow allow this to go through after being strong-armed. I don't want to see other clubs competing against billion dollar budgets. No way.

It's mind boggling that West Ham, Everton, Leicester, Sevilla, Bilbao, Roma, Napoli, Lazio, Atalanta, and potentially Marseille, Lyon, Leipzig, Levekusen, could get trounced domestically competing against clubs with 20x their budgets.
 
This has disaster written all over it.

As a fan, the worst case scenario is for UEFA/FIFA to make up and somehow allow this to go through after being strong-armed. I don't want to see other clubs competing against billion dollar budgets. No way.

It's mind boggling that West Ham, Everton, Leicester, Sevilla, Bilbao, Roma, Napoli, Lazio, Atalanta, and potentially Marseille, Lyon, Leipzig, Levekusen, could get trounced domestically competing against clubs with 20x their budgets.
Exactly, I completely agree. If this happens you basically need to have these 15 or so teams just go and have their own league and not compete domestically. Domestic competitions become a complete farce and joke if you allow those teams to compete with the money advantage they are going to have. You'll have teams with players making 500k/week competing against the next highest payer in their domestic league at 50k/week. There's just no point.
 
European soccer is better than the current NBA product
I was captive and watched the second half of Lakers-Jazz last Sat. Brutally bad, nobody runs anymore.
 
Looks like Bayern Munich and PSG have nixed the SL today.

This might mean that a CL with Bayern Munich, PSG, Lyon, Sevilla, Bilbao, Roma, Napoli, Atalanta, Leicester, West Ham, will have a puncher's chance of making a go of it.

It will be an NIT vs. NCAA type of competition. If the super league loses legitimacy from not crowning a true champion without the others entering into the competition, they won't draw the money they want.

On the other hand, if they do, PSG and Bayern will have no choice but to join eventually in order to have the money to continue to buy the best players.
 
I wonder if African and S. American players would sign up if they were banned from the World Cup?
 
Looks like Bayern Munich and PSG have nixed the SL today.

This might mean that a CL with Bayern Munich, PSG, Lyon, Sevilla, Bilbao, Roma, Napoli, Atalanta, Leicester, West Ham, will have a puncher's chance of making a go of it.

It will be an NIT vs. NCAA type of competition. If the super league loses legitimacy from not crowning a true champion without the others entering into the competition, they won't draw the money they want.

On the other hand, if they do, PSG and Bayern will have no choice but to join eventually in order to have the money to continue to buy the best players.
May need the money or may not. PSG owner finds millions in his seat cushions. In one summer they spent half a billion dollars on 2 players, not including the astronomical salaries that followed.

It's easy to understand why clubs like Barcelona, Real Madrid and Juventus would want this new league and they've been talking about it pretty openly for years. They must look around and see the money the English clubs rake (even bottom of the table clubs) and oligarch clubs - and think about their survival and money left on the table. And for what reason? So FIFA and UEFA can laud their competitions as the only shows in town and "maintain order". I have no issue with any clubs sticking it to these organizations that have been rife with corruption since their inception.
 
.-.
It's a direct competitor (kill shot) to the UEFA Champions League. On its own, or as the big clubs see it, there's no problem. The founding 15 clubs are the most marketable, they can invite the hot clubs of the moment, gain the same eyeballs and get more of the money for themselves which will make their clubs better, keeping them at the top of the heap. Capitalism in the raw.

The problem is that UEFA, and by extention, FIFA run the champions league. The money, goes to fund global soccer. Smaller clubs, smaller leagues, lower divisions and domestic leagues in smaller nations. That's the window dressing, it's about money, and who receives it.

The other problem is that currently you have to earn your way into the Champions League, Europa league, etc. While many of these 15 clubs are UEFA tournament regulars, 5 of the EPL 6 are almost always in them most years, these clubs are no granting themselves a permanent seat at the table.

This has trickle down implications for the domestic leagues, especially the EPL. These clubs will now have resources that dwarf the domestic competition by a factor greater than they do currently at a multiple that would make the SEC/B1G blush with envy. It would effectively kill the prospects of any team making a legit run at a title, league cup or FA cup. The Leicester City or even Man City before they were Man City from winning. These domestic cups are essentially playoffs. If you can't win the league, winning a trophy is still a very big deal in European soccer.

The FIFA and the have nots are fighting back by threatening to excommunicate any clubs or players who join the new league from global soccer, incl the world cup and the domestic leagues.

It makes the CFB realignments from 20 years ago look like a school yard staring contest.
This was my interpretation of what's going on. This is not meant to politicize this conversation, but I think European politics may explain the reaction to a certain extent. Here's how I summarize: 1) The teams looking to break away thought their fans/players/coaches would support (or at least tolerate) the move to lock in super-power status (see US professional and NCAA sports); 2) They forgot that many/most of their home countries are proudly socialist.
 
This was my interpretation of what's going on. This is not meant to politicize this conversation, but I think European politics may explain the reaction to a certain extent. Here's how I summarize: 1) The teams looking to break away thought their fans/players/coaches would support (or at least tolerate) the move to lock in super-power status (see US professional and NCAA sports); 2) They forgot that many/most of their home countries are proudly socialist.
We tend to think of these countries as Socialist but the reality is that the EU forbids a good many things that we're allowed to do in America. For instance, there's no direct buying of bonds by the central bank, it's got to be done in the secondary market, though the CB can buy private corporate debt. The EU is much more capitalist than any of the countries on their own. Any country with a strong social culture built it long before they joined the EU, and some of the rich ones maintained it to some degree (Denmark), while others are slowly sloughing it off (Sweden), Germany hasn't really ever had as strong a system as other countries, and some refused to join the euro so they could maintain their social system (Norway).
 
This was my interpretation of what's going on. This is not meant to politicize this conversation, but I think European politics may explain the reaction to a certain extent. Here's how I summarize: 1) The teams looking to break away thought their fans/players/coaches would support (or at least tolerate) the move to lock in super-power status (see US professional and NCAA sports); 2) They forgot that many/most of their home countries are proudly socialist.

Socialist isn't the right word. They consider sport to be part of the public domain in the same way MLB is with its anti-trust exemption. The rules of football, such as they are go back hundreds of years and with it the pyramid system of promotion and relegation.

It's difficult to find a US equivalent. It's not socislist, it's popular self governance.
 
I wonder if African and S. American players would sign up if they were banned from the World Cup?

I don't think there would be a single answer but you may recall how insane Argentina went after Messi announced he was retiring from the national team.

My guess it would be a lot like college players leaving early for the draft. Most would want to play for their country for at least a little while.
 
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