OT: European Soccer Super League

[HuskyHawk]

Here is an update from the Times or London.

At least one of the “big six” English clubs is considering whether to withdraw from the new Super League after being taken aback by the volume of opposition, including from their fans.

Uefa has left the door open for any of the 12 Super League clubs to change their minds, and this morning Aleksander Ceferin, its president, made a direct approach to the English clubs.

European Super League: One of English ‘big six’ could withdraw after backlash from fans | News | The Times

 

[goskis2018]

This proposal is a disgrace. However, there is no loyalty, respect, and values in hyper vulture global capitalism. Monopolies created at the expense of the regular Joe serfs. The ugly masks are being taken off. Rich getting richer. These type of garbage making this announcement in a worldwide pandemic is even more malicious.

Capitalist greed and selfishness knows no bounds. Actions like this will hasten the demise of the existing order. No respect for values, traditions, culture, and for individual nations.

This is the same reason I am against amateur basketball mercenaries, and the same disgraceful actions taking place in American sports and every other sphere.

#SupportFIFA
#SupportUEFA

I hate the idea of the Super League and would rather the system in place stay as it is, but you can't make that point and end it with a "#SupportFIFA". They changed the football calendar around by shifting the next World Cup to the winter just so they could cash in playing the games in a country with no tradition but deeeeeeeeep pockets. And by the way, when I say cash in I don't even mean in the same sense that the Super League owners are making a cutthroat business move, I mean by accepting literal bribes to grease the wheels .

 

[SubbaBub]

Follow-up question. This isn't me picking a fight. My son and I have gotten into international soccer for a while. Primarily EPL. He's a big Man U guys (because his first soccer coach was a fanatic). I have less rooting interest. I've come to enjoy the set-up of the league with relegation. I didn't love a lack of playoff because the champion is generally a foregone conclusion a month or two before the end of the season. But the Champion's League and Europa League qualification helps.

Other than the qualification slots changing, what's the big difference in what is proposed? The big 5 wouldn't share in their new league profits, so that's a hit. They'd need to revise Champion's League qualifications and you could have a team totally mailing it in during a difficult season because they won't lose their spot in the new league.

But I'm clearly missing the death knell that everyone assumes this would result in. This wouldn't be like the top of the P5 leaving their leagues. It would be like those teams setting up their own football playoff. It kind of sucks for the other teams knowing they couldn't make that playoff, but it's only a dream for them to make it now.

It's a direct competitor (kill shot) to the UEFA Champions League. On its own, or as the big clubs see it, there's no problem. The founding 15 clubs are the most marketable, they can invite the hot clubs of the moment, gain the same eyeballs and get more of the money for themselves which will make their clubs better, keeping them at the top of the heap. Capitalism in the raw.

The problem is that UEFA, and by extention, FIFA run the champions league. The money, goes to fund global soccer. Smaller clubs, smaller leagues, lower divisions and domestic leagues in smaller nations. That's the window dressing, it's about money, and who receives it.

The other problem is that currently you have to earn your way into the Champions League, Europa league, etc. While many of these 15 clubs are UEFA tournament regulars, 5 of the EPL 6 are almost always in them most years, these clubs are no granting themselves a permanent seat at the table.

This has trickle down implications for the domestic leagues, especially the EPL. These clubs will now have resources that dwarf the domestic competition by a factor greater than they do currently at a multiple that would make the SEC/B1G blush with envy. It would effectively kill the prospects of any team making a legit run at a title, league cup or FA cup. The Leicester City or even Man City before they were Man City from winning. These domestic cups are essentially playoffs. If you can't win the league, winning a trophy is still a very big deal in European soccer.

The FIFA and the have nots are fighting back by threatening to excommunicate any clubs or players who join the new league from global soccer, incl the world cup and the domestic leagues.

It makes the CFB realignments from 20 years ago look like a school yard staring contest.

 

[alphasigko]

Soccer? ZZZZZZZZZZ

 

[WestHartHusk]

Soccer? ZZZZZZZZZZ

Hot take alert.

 

[CallMeBruce]

Well the P5 wants to break off to get away from the NCAA so i don't think they would care about them banning them from playing NCAA opponents lol

No they don't

 

[CallMeBruce]

Soccer? ZZZZZZZZZZ

Did someone make you click and leave a comment?

 

[aburks41]

Soccer? ZZZZZZZZZZ

European soccer is better than the current NBA product

 

[upstater]

This has disaster written all over it.

As a fan, the worst case scenario is for UEFA/FIFA to make up and somehow allow this to go through after being strong-armed. I don't want to see other clubs competing against billion dollar budgets. No way.

It's mind boggling that West Ham, Everton, Leicester, Sevilla, Bilbao, Roma, Napoli, Lazio, Atalanta, and potentially Marseille, Lyon, Leipzig, Levekusen, could get trounced domestically competing against clubs with 20x their budgets.

 

[Greedo]

This has disaster written all over it.

As a fan, the worst case scenario is for UEFA/FIFA to make up and somehow allow this to go through after being strong-armed. I don't want to see other clubs competing against billion dollar budgets. No way.

It's mind boggling that West Ham, Everton, Leicester, Sevilla, Bilbao, Roma, Napoli, Lazio, Atalanta, and potentially Marseille, Lyon, Leipzig, Levekusen, could get trounced domestically competing against clubs with 20x their budgets.

Exactly, I completely agree. If this happens you basically need to have these 15 or so teams just go and have their own league and not compete domestically. Domestic competitions become a complete farce and joke if you allow those teams to compete with the money advantage they are going to have. You'll have teams with players making 500k/week competing against the next highest payer in their domestic league at 50k/week. There's just no point.

 

[Waquoit]

European soccer is better than the current NBA product

I was captive and watched the second half of Lakers-Jazz last Sat. Brutally bad, nobody runs anymore.

 

[upstater]

Looks like Bayern Munich and PSG have nixed the SL today.

This might mean that a CL with Bayern Munich, PSG, Lyon, Sevilla, Bilbao, Roma, Napoli, Atalanta, Leicester, West Ham, will have a puncher's chance of making a go of it.

It will be an NIT vs. NCAA type of competition. If the super league loses legitimacy from not crowning a true champion without the others entering into the competition, they won't draw the money they want.

On the other hand, if they do, PSG and Bayern will have no choice but to join eventually in order to have the money to continue to buy the best players.

 

[Waquoit]

I wonder if African and S. American players would sign up if they were banned from the World Cup?

 

[Woodson]

Looks like Bayern Munich and PSG have nixed the SL today.

This might mean that a CL with Bayern Munich, PSG, Lyon, Sevilla, Bilbao, Roma, Napoli, Atalanta, Leicester, West Ham, will have a puncher's chance of making a go of it.

It will be an NIT vs. NCAA type of competition. If the super league loses legitimacy from not crowning a true champion without the others entering into the competition, they won't draw the money they want.

On the other hand, if they do, PSG and Bayern will have no choice but to join eventually in order to have the money to continue to buy the best players.

May need the money or may not. PSG owner finds millions in his seat cushions. In one summer they spent half a billion dollars on 2 players, not including the astronomical salaries that followed.

It's easy to understand why clubs like Barcelona, Real Madrid and Juventus would want this new league and they've been talking about it pretty openly for years. They must look around and see the money the English clubs rake (even bottom of the table clubs) and oligarch clubs - and think about their survival and money left on the table. And for what reason? So FIFA and UEFA can laud their competitions as the only shows in town and "maintain order". I have no issue with any clubs sticking it to these organizations that have been rife with corruption since their inception.

 

[Chuck]

It's a direct competitor (kill shot) to the UEFA Champions League. On its own, or as the big clubs see it, there's no problem. The founding 15 clubs are the most marketable, they can invite the hot clubs of the moment, gain the same eyeballs and get more of the money for themselves which will make their clubs better, keeping them at the top of the heap. Capitalism in the raw.

The problem is that UEFA, and by extention, FIFA run the champions league. The money, goes to fund global soccer. Smaller clubs, smaller leagues, lower divisions and domestic leagues in smaller nations. That's the window dressing, it's about money, and who receives it.

The other problem is that currently you have to earn your way into the Champions League, Europa league, etc. While many of these 15 clubs are UEFA tournament regulars, 5 of the EPL 6 are almost always in them most years, these clubs are no granting themselves a permanent seat at the table.

This has trickle down implications for the domestic leagues, especially the EPL. These clubs will now have resources that dwarf the domestic competition by a factor greater than they do currently at a multiple that would make the SEC/B1G blush with envy. It would effectively kill the prospects of any team making a legit run at a title, league cup or FA cup. The Leicester City or even Man City before they were Man City from winning. These domestic cups are essentially playoffs. If you can't win the league, winning a trophy is still a very big deal in European soccer.

The FIFA and the have nots are fighting back by threatening to excommunicate any clubs or players who join the new league from global soccer, incl the world cup and the domestic leagues.

It makes the CFB realignments from 20 years ago look like a school yard staring contest.

This was my interpretation of what's going on. This is not meant to politicize this conversation, but I think European politics may explain the reaction to a certain extent. Here's how I summarize: 1) The teams looking to break away thought their fans/players/coaches would support (or at least tolerate) the move to lock in super-power status (see US professional and NCAA sports); 2) They forgot that many/most of their home countries are proudly socialist.

 

[upstater]

This was my interpretation of what's going on. This is not meant to politicize this conversation, but I think European politics may explain the reaction to a certain extent. Here's how I summarize: 1) The teams looking to break away thought their fans/players/coaches would support (or at least tolerate) the move to lock in super-power status (see US professional and NCAA sports); 2) They forgot that many/most of their home countries are proudly socialist.

We tend to think of these countries as Socialist but the reality is that the EU forbids a good many things that we're allowed to do in America. For instance, there's no direct buying of bonds by the central bank, it's got to be done in the secondary market, though the CB can buy private corporate debt. The EU is much more capitalist than any of the countries on their own. Any country with a strong social culture built it long before they joined the EU, and some of the rich ones maintained it to some degree (Denmark), while others are slowly sloughing it off (Sweden), Germany hasn't really ever had as strong a system as other countries, and some refused to join the euro so they could maintain their social system (Norway).

 

[SubbaBub]

This was my interpretation of what's going on. This is not meant to politicize this conversation, but I think European politics may explain the reaction to a certain extent. Here's how I summarize: 1) The teams looking to break away thought their fans/players/coaches would support (or at least tolerate) the move to lock in super-power status (see US professional and NCAA sports); 2) They forgot that many/most of their home countries are proudly socialist.

Socialist isn't the right word. They consider sport to be part of the public domain in the same way MLB is with its anti-trust exemption. The rules of football, such as they are go back hundreds of years and with it the pyramid system of promotion and relegation.

It's difficult to find a US equivalent. It's not socislist, it's popular self governance.

 

[CCSUblue]

Chelsea already pulling the plug.

 

[SubbaBub]

I wonder if African and S. American players would sign up if they were banned from the World Cup?

I don't think there would be a single answer but you may recall how insane Argentina went after Messi announced he was retiring from the national team.

My guess it would be a lot like college players leaving early for the draft. Most would want to play for their country for at least a little while.

 

[navery12]

 

[Kemba'sYogurt]

 

[upstater]

Socialist isn't the right word. They consider sport to be part of the public domain in the same way MLB is with its anti-trust exemption. The rules of football, such as they are go back hundreds of years and with it the pyramid system of promotion and relegation.

It's difficult to find a US equivalent. It's not socislist, it's popular self governance.

This certainly makes much more sense.

After all, there are no salary caps or revenue sharing. Whatever you think of the NFL's politics, the fact is that it does have revenue sharing and a salary cap.

None of these European leagues are even thinking about such things. Leicesters don't seem to happen very often, if at all.

 

[upstater]

Just for kicks, the Super League should now invite Benfica, Porto, Celtic, Olympiakos, Napoli, Roma, Ajax, and a few others to take Chelsea and Man City's place.

 

[hardcorehusky]

The system is broken, whether this Super League happens or not. UEFA, FIFA, the clubs- everyone is self serving. I see why the 12 teams broke away- PSG would have done it but their ownership owns Bein Sport which has rights to the Champions League so that is their conflict at the moment. Bayern Munich were one of the original teams looking to breakaway when the documents were released a few years ago. Their U-turn is more about keeping status quo in a dominant position in the Bundesliga AND how it plays out for them in Champions League.

Ultimately, for Champions League to work properly, UEFA needs to be cleaned up. FIFA needs to be cleaned up and not award World Cups that disrupt every league while taking bribes and hushing it up. More money needs to go to the bigger teams because they are the ones with the eyeballs. More money needs to go to smaller leagues to help support the growth of the game.

The premise wasn't wrong for this Super League. Game attendance is down all over the world and especially amongst the younger generation. Opening up to the world makes it easier to make money. People want to see big matchups. The premise that a vast underdog can win the whole shebang at least in England, has come up twice in the last 10 years- Leicester City winning the Premier League and Wigan getting to an FA Cup final. The romanticism of that underdog is strong, but is rare.

 

[HuskyHawk]

This certainly makes much more sense.

After all, there are no salary caps or revenue sharing. Whatever you think of the NFL's politics, the fact is that it does have revenue sharing and a salary cap.

None of these European leagues are even thinking about such things. Leicesters don't seem to happen very often, if at all.

It's just so different. Much of that comes from relegation, but there is also development. Vast resources pour in to the development of young players. Things like this do not happen in the U.S. leagues. They recruited a 13 year old to come to Spain from Argentina. Many of the smaller clubs exist by developing and selling talent.

20 years ago: Lionel Messi's first Barcelona training session - AS.com