OT: - European Soccer Super League | Page 3 | The Boneyard

OT: European Soccer Super League

I am trying to wrap my head around why any player would be banned from playing for his country because of league affiliation. Feels like FIFA wants another kickback. Honest question, would that even hold up in court?

FIFA has a stake in all the leagues and this would be competition and take money out of their pocket. I think this would hold up in court because FIFA controls the World Cup so they can set the rules of participation.

FIFA wants to get paid is really all it is. I think this super league would ruin European football competition long term.
 
FIFA has a stake in all the leagues and this would be competition and take money out of their pocket. I think this would hold up in court because FIFA controls the World Cup so they can set the rules of participation.

FIFA wants to get paid is really all it is. I think this super league would ruin European football competition long term.

I don't think it will happen. It will cause FIFA and UEFA to make changes to the Champions League (they already have) and perhaps allow these clubs to leverage their status with their own leagues for more money. There is huge risk to these clubs, aside from the threats already made. Somebody is going to finish in last place, when they would otherwise likely be a top 3 in their home league.
 
@bendm @djct1999 isn't Olympic soccer played with countries "B" teams mostly? I don't recall the Olympic's soccer tournament generating nearly as much buzz as a World Cup, and that has country pride on the line. I'd assume most people don't care because the top players from each country aren't participating, meaning the gold medal is just a watered down trophy.

Edit: to tie it back to basketball. Would there be as much interest in watching the USA Men's Olympic basketball team compete if LeBron, KD, Irving, etc. didn't play and just a bunch of "B" team guys wearing USA a jersey?
 
It's such an American thing to do. Of the 12 named clubs, at least 4 are American owned.
It's driven by the American owners as well, they are using the Pandemic as an excuse to protect their investments using the U.S. Franchise structure.
 
Btw, you'd think after our AAC experience, that a UConn board would understand the impotence of having historic ties to your opponents. Your brand as a team is a perishable item.
The thing is, the teams breaking away are equivalent to the now P5 schools who hold all the leverage when it comes to setting schedules, TV rights and money. The teams not invited will be the ones relegated to the AAC like fate.

Do you think the Syracuse or Louisville administration care what their alumni or fans think about historic ties when they are cashing that big media check? Their "brand" is fine because they get to play Duke and UNC twice per year & sell a bunch of tickets and get fantastic TV exposure from the talking heads at ESPN. Within a decade, people will forget that they were once part of a conference called "The Big East", much like how people forget teams like VT and Miami were once part of that league.
 
@bendm @djct1999 isn't Olympic soccer played with countries "B" teams mostly? I don't recall the Olympic's soccer tournament generating nearly as much buzz as a World Cup, and that has country pride on the line. I'd assume most people don't care because the top players from each country aren't participating, meaning the gold medal is just a watered down trophy.

Edit: to tie it back to basketball. Would there be as much interest in watching the USA Men's Olympic basketball team compete if LeBron, KD, Irving, etc. didn't play and just a bunch of "B" team guys wearing USA a jersey?
Olympic soccer only allows a few players above a certain age, so it pretty much guarantees that it's not that country's stars playing.
 
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Juve just lost to Porto in UEFA Champions League, which brings a ton of money to Porto. These clubs rely on the Champions League and Europa League tournaments to fund their operations. Obviously winning these tournaments is the end goal for these clubs, but just qualifying for them is hige. Without the likes of the prestigious teams participating that money will shrink significantly.
 
Olympic soccer only allows a few players above a certain age, so it pretty much guarantees that it's not that country's stars playing.
Right, and since the stars can't play, people care much less. If the stars could play, while it still wouldn't hold the prestige of a WC title, I bet the hype and viewership around the tournament would be much greater.
 
The EPL would cease to exist if they banned their top 6 clubs. They have absolutely zero leverage over them and the clubs know it
Not true at all. The deck is completely stacked against the BPL clubs, in fact. Not only will their fanbases revolt, already this is perceived as a Yankee cash grab done during the Pandemic when the power of the fanbases is weakened, but Boris has already come out to say the government will do whatever they can to blow it up. The FA, the football leagues, FIFA, and EUFA would smother these clubs if they all separated off by simply banning athletes who participate in the competition from all FIFA/EUFA sponsored events.

The truth is, this is a negotiation tactic rather than anything else. Liverpool's ownership was trying to strong arm the Premier League a few months ago as part of negotiations to save clubs lower down the footballing pyramid. This is more of the same, with more pressure applied on the BPL as well as the UCL. At the end of the day, American owners can't stomach the fact that owning a European super power carries the risk of the value of the investment going nil. Unfortunately for John Henry and co, the sense amongst the British Public is that the goal of American owners is to first lock in their value and then milk their clubs for profits going forward. If you're American, you may think they have a shot of pulling this off. If you have European roots and understand what the sport is culturally on the continent, you would know this is nothing but a PR nightmare Europe's elite have stumbled into.
 
Not true at all. The deck is completely stacked against the BPL clubs, in fact. Not only will their fanbases revolt, already this is perceived as a Yankee cash grab done during the Pandemic when the power of the fanbases is weakened, but Boris has already come out to say the government will do whatever they can to blow it up. The FA, the football leagues, FIFA, and EUFA would smother these clubs if they all separated off by simply banning athletes who participate in the competition from all FIFA/EUFA sponsored events.

The truth is, this is a negotiation tactic rather than anything else. Liverpool's ownership was trying to strong arm the Premier League a few months ago as part of negotiations to save clubs lower down the footballing pyramid. This is more of the same, with more pressure applied on the BPL as well as the UCL. At the end of the day, American owners can't stomach the fact that owning a European super power carries the risk of the value of the investment going nil. Unfortunately for John Henry and co, the sense amongst the British Public is that the goal of American owners is to first lock in their value and then milk their clubs for profits going forward. If you're American, you may think they have a shot of pulling this off. If you have European roots and understand what the sport is culturally on the continent, you would know this is nothing but a PR nightmare Europe's elite have stumbled into.
I have a hard time seeing Klopp, with his values, staying at Liverpool after this. I could be wrong, but based on what he's said in the past, I don't see him sticking around after this season.
 
Btw, you'd think after our AAC experience, that a UConn board would understand the impotence of having historic ties to your opponents. Your brand as a team is a perishable item.

Interestingly the meaning of this sentence is exactly as valid if you substitute "importance" for "impotence"
 
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I have a hard time seeing Klopp, with his values, staying at Liverpool after this. I could be wrong, but based on what he's said in the past, I don't see him sticking around after this season.
He's been on the record over the past few years as against the idea. I love Kloppo, there are not many sports figures I hold in higher esteem, but if he were to tow the party line on this one he would light his personal reputation on fire. Liverpool as whole will have their reputation and tradition dragged through the mud over this. The Club is based out of a hard left city in England and it's club legends were devout Socialists off the field. Yet FSG seems to think they will be able to steam roll the fans of the "people's club" via woke platitudes on banners in the stands, a tactic that might work in the states but I suspect isn't enough of a smokescreen across the pond. From browsing the reactions across the board this morning, it seems like this is universally considered a power grab by the owners that is driven by greed and not by what is best for the clubs.
 
Deduct points from all 6 clubs or send them straight to the championship. You want your super league AND (meaningless, no strive for top-4) domestic football? Here ya go. Couldn't agree with you more, @goskis2018 , the reaction in Liverpool says it all. #FSGOUT
 
He's been on the record over the past few years as against the idea. I love Kloppo, there are not many sports figures I hold in higher esteem, but if he were to tow the party line on this one he would light his personal reputation on fire. Liverpool as whole will have their reputation and tradition dragged through the mud over this. The Club is based out of a hard left city in England and it's club legends were devout Socialists off the field. Yet FSG seems to think they will be able to steam roll the fans of the "people's club" via woke platitudes on banners in the stands, a tactic that might work in the states but I suspect isn't enough of a smokescreen across the pond. From browsing the reactions across the board this morning, it seems like this is universally considered a power grab by the owners that is driven by greed and not by what is best for the clubs.

I agree, I was a Liverpool fan long before Klopp, but Klopp has become my favorite manager of all time, and possibly my favorite coach of all time in any sport. If he leaves after this, there's a good chance my fandom will follow him wherever he goes. With FSG in ownership of Liverpool, the club no longer represents why I became a fan of them in the first place, which you cited above.
 
This has been floated in golf. A “super tour” or something of the like with the top, top players. Pretty much every single player said “no way, no thanks.”
 
First to say, "Take it to the Soccer Board!" 😀

This is greedy of the big clubs, but they are businesses, so in the end they should do what's best for them. I don't know that is what's best for them (considering all of the hate that this is immediately getting). Yet FIFA is the proverbial glass house and their reps should stop throwing stones about "greed" and "snakes" making these decisions. Can their be a more corrupt organization that always lined their own pockets (organization and individual) over the good of the game.

If this super league replaces each team's home league, then I think all involved will regret this decision. It will be exciting for a few years if you are Man U playing Real Madrid instead of that year's relegation-slot English team, but that'll get old when you lose all of your local excitement. Ask Syracuse how awesome it is to play Wake Forest over UConn.

But if this replaces Champion's League, it's greedy, but it's not the end of the world. It would hurt a team like West Ham that could make Champion's League next year. Champion's League would become more like Europa. That's why I personally preferred the expanded Champion's League though. It acknowledged that the big clubs are different (whether people like it or not), but also allowed smaller clubs to bust in at least temporarily. There would still be problems, like the big teams not prioritizing league games because they wouldn't need to reach 4th place (EPL), but stuff changes.
 
The price of Juventus stock going up says everything that needs to be said. Dortmund will probably be replaced by Leipzig as a "founding club".
 
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I think that there's less than 10% chance that this comes to fruition. This isn't like a college team changing conference. It's a much deeper thing than that. I've been a Chelsea fan for 10-plus years & I've never seen the fan-base so riled up and angered. Many are claiming that they will stop supporting the team (I would be among them) and yeah, some of that might be "all talk", but I suspect that a lot of it is genuine.
Sports do not occur in a vacuum, it requires fans to care about you. That's the engine that drives the whole train. If you mess that up, the train sputters.
 
@bendm @djct1999 isn't Olympic soccer played with countries "B" teams mostly? I don't recall the Olympic's soccer tournament generating nearly as much buzz as a World Cup, and that has country pride on the line. I'd assume most people don't care because the top players from each country aren't participating, meaning the gold medal is just a watered down trophy.

Edit: to tie it back to basketball. Would there be as much interest in watching the USA Men's Olympic basketball team compete if LeBron, KD, Irving, etc. didn't play and just a bunch of "B" team guys wearing USA a jersey?
let me explain how a genuine and passionate soccer fan is going to react to this, e.g., me.

i've been a man city fan since i was a lad because my great grandfather was from england and that was his club and therefore my grandfather's as well. if city joins the superleague i would stop rooting for them tomorrow. i'm also a team USA fan when it comes to international tourney time. if christian pulisic stayed on chelsea after they moved to the superleague, i'd donate his jersey to charity, he would be replaced on team USA if FIFA upholds their threatened ban, and everything would be fine. i'd root for team usa just as passionately as if our best player was still on the team.

this should not come as a surprise to anyone. almost every one of these club's biggest fan groups has already come out condemning this move and treating it as a betrayal of everything that is holy
 
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let me explain how a genuine and passionate soccer fan is going to react to this, e.g., me.

i've been a man city fan since i was a lad because my great grandfather was from england and that was his club and therefore my grandfather's as well. if city joins the superleague i would stop rooting for them tomorrow. i'm also a team USA fan when it comes to international tourney time. if christian pulisic stayed on chelsea after they moved to the superleague, i'd donate his jersey to charity, he would be replaced on team USA if FIFA upholds their threatened ban, and everything would be fine. i'd root for team usa just as passionately as if our best player was still on the team.

this should not come as a surprise to anyone. almost every one of these club's biggest fan groups has already come out condemning this move and treating it as a betrayal of everything that is holy
Fair enough. I don't watch soccer with any rooting interest so this doesn't really matter to me one way or another. I'll watch the WC and Euros because its always fun to see the big time international matches IMO.

Y'all were going back and forth about how this would / wouldn't impact the game at a national competition level and figured I'd toss the most comparable example (Olympic soccer) to what this could do to the national competitions.
 
This has been floated in golf. A “super tour” or something of the like with the top, top players. Pretty much every single player said “no way, no thanks.”
How is that different than WGC & the FedEx Cup? Personally, I'd love to see a "super tour" that featured more high stake matches in Europe, South Africa, Australia & Japan where many of the top international players are from.
 
FIFA has a stake in all the leagues and this would be competition and take money out of their pocket. I think this would hold up in court because FIFA controls the World Cup so they can set the rules of participation.

FIFA wants to get paid is really all it is. I think this super league would ruin European football competition long term.

This, but you have one thing backwards. This is the big clubs wanting a bigger cut from FIFA and UEFA.

As for legality, it might vary from nation to nation but since domestic leagues have strict controls on them over how many foreign players are allowed and the FA's are licensed by the government. They can absolutely deny work permits and tax breaks to players and teams that participate, even if they can't ban them outright, which I think they could.
 
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How is that different than WGC & the FedEx Cup? Personally, I'd love to see a "super tour" that featured more high stake matches in Europe, South Africa, Australia & Japan where many of the top international players are from.

You already have this in golf. The PGA is the super league and with a few exceptions most of the top players play in it full time. On top of that you have the Masters, US Open (USGA) and British Open (R&A) which aren't strictly PGA events. The Masters is actually an official event on 3 tours, PGA, Euro, and Japanese.
 
I am a long long time Liverpool supporter- I have no problem with the Super League. I would rather rake in the money in a league playing Juventus as opposed to Burnley. As a UConn fan, we see what the other side of the coin is, and it isn't pretty.
 
let me explain how a genuine and passionate soccer fan is going to react to this, e.g., me.

i've been a man city fan since i was a lad because my great grandfather was from england and that was his club and therefore my grandfather's as well. if city joins the superleague i would stop rooting for them tomorrow. i'm also a team USA fan when it comes to international tourney time. if christian pulisic stayed on chelsea after they moved to the superleague, i'd donate his jersey to charity, he would be replaced on team USA if FIFA upholds their threatened ban, and everything would be fine. i'd root for team usa just as passionately as if our best player was still on the team.

this should not come as a surprise to anyone. almost every one of these club's biggest fan groups has already come out condemning this move and treating it as a betrayal of everything that is holy
Follow-up question. This isn't me picking a fight. My son and I have gotten into international soccer for a while. Primarily EPL. He's a big Man U guys (because his first soccer coach was a fanatic). I have less rooting interest. I've come to enjoy the set-up of the league with relegation. I didn't love a lack of playoff because the champion is generally a foregone conclusion a month or two before the end of the season. But the Champion's League and Europa League qualification helps.

Other than the qualification slots changing, what's the big difference in what is proposed? The big 5 wouldn't share in their new league profits, so that's a hit. They'd need to revise Champion's League qualifications and you could have a team totally mailing it in during a difficult season because they won't lose their spot in the new league.

But I'm clearly missing the death knell that everyone assumes this would result in. This wouldn't be like the top of the P5 leaving their leagues. It would be like those teams setting up their own football playoff. It kind of sucks for the other teams knowing they couldn't make that playoff, but it's only a dream for them to make it now.
 
Other than the qualification slots changing, what's the big difference in what is proposed? The big 5 wouldn't share in their new league profits, so that's a hit. They'd need to revise Champion's League qualifications and you could have a team totally mailing it in during a difficult season because they won't lose their spot in the new league.

It kind of sucks for the other teams knowing they couldn't make that playoff, but it's only a dream for them to make it now.
 
I am a long long time Liverpool supporter- I have no problem with the Super League. I would rather rake in the money in a league playing Juventus as opposed to Burnley. As a UConn fan, we see what the other side of the coin is, and it isn't pretty.
I am a Liverpool fan as well and find this atrocious. It defeats the whole point of earning your respect and your spot, belittles the english league pyramid, and pretty much tells smaller clubs to f off. Greed and naivety runs deep.
 
The PGL is/was the pro golf equivalent
The PGA tour is not a "super tour" but it is the EPL equivalent
 
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