Ernest Jones resigns

[kibblesnbits]

Don't know how to respond to this Chin. I understand your point but it would be disappointing if expressing your faith is prohibited at the University of Connecticut. I think his wording was unfortunate but not his message.

As far as the school was concerned he's allowed to believe that any higher being he wants is in the huddle - he's just not allowed to tell others he's coaching that is what they should believe. It was an unfortunate choice of words and one I don't think was a residual problem, so I suspect it was not the real cause of his departure. If the school put any additional pressure on him or he expressed any discomfort in that respect, would they have released a video introducing him to the public just a few days ago?

 

[Chin Diesel]

Don't know how to respond to this Chin. I understand your point but it would be disappointing if expressing your faith is prohibited at the University of Connecticut. I think his wording was unfortunate but not his message.

Because it's Connecticut. This wouldn't be an issue at Texas, Alabama or many other schools. In Connecticut? It is.

As I said in my original post, the vetting/hiring process failed.

 

[Waquoit]

Because it's Connecticut. This wouldn't be an issue at Texas, Alabama or many other schools. In Connecticut? It is.

What you are saying is not so much that it's Connecticut as it's not the Confederacy. And that's a good thing.

 

[Jerry27]

Um, that's blatantly what he's stating there.

Who, the other poster or Coach Jones? If you mean CJ than ok we agree to give him the benefit of the doubt and don't believe that he was literally going to be making the players preach the teachings of Jesus in the huddle. God is my copilot, but guess what, I'm not a pilot, someone may take that too literal and think I'm flying around with God, oh the horror of the statement, retract! retract! Maybe Jesus in the huddle meant much the same to him.

I find it funny how people can read into the resignation and make up a scenario but when it comes to the statement he made it can only mean exactly one thing.

The only thing obvious is that we all have our own opinion on the issue.

 

[huskymedic]

The only thing obvious is that we all have our own opinion on the issue...

... And we need to find a new coaching staff member fast!

 

[FAIRTIDES]

The man is a devout christian and the University and State asked him to keep that information to himself while he was at work.

Only in Connecticut. This man would have helped us tremendously in recruiting young christian men from the South. But we don't want to offend some soccer mom in Hartford. Unbelievable.

Wonder who they will hire to replace him.

Bill Maher?

 

[Chin Diesel]

What you are saying is not so much that it's Connecticut as it's not the Confederacy. And that's a good thing.

There are pockets of the country where the population would be okay with what his message is and pockets where it's not okay. I don't think the Mason-Dixon line is the only way to measure it.

To reiterate, this hire never should have happened because the outcome was inevitable. The only variable was the time frame.

 

[cohenzone]

You couldn't field a competitive team by openly admitted that you are promoting Islam in the huddle.

I don't think you could field a competitive team by solely recruiting aethiests and agnostics.

Couldn't do it with Buddhists, Wiccans or Jews.

The only category of religious beliefs and recruiting pool size is Christianity.

Not saying you should do it at a public university, but if you were to do it, that's the only combination that could be sustained.

For recruiting of course,but I stand by te Allh sate

Ridiculous.

What makes you think Allah isn't already there? You think we don't have muslim players on this roster? We don't have evangelical Christian players in the huddle? We don't have atheists in the huddle? Jews? They get along just fine, and they have been for as long as the sport as been played. Religious tolerance is established among people that live and work together daily.

A border was crossed here and has nothing to do with whatever religious beliefs a person adheres to.

The line crossed, is the difference between religious tolerance, and enforcement of the principle that government shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. You got to know your culture. It's clear that Kevin Ollie does know his culture, and Ernest Jones did not know the culture of the northeast. Bob Diaco does know the culture of the northeast.

I'll tell you what, I wish Coach Jones the best in wherever he goes.

To think that this has nothing to do with the media storm that was created by his comments to Desmond Conner, and that reporter's choice to publish those comments, is foolish. The fact that he consciously chose to say what he did publicly to a reporter, is evidence enough, that he was either inexperienced in, or completely outside of his comfort realm in his chosen profession within the culture he found himself working in. No comment on the reporter's choice of what to do with the words.

Logic would dictate that the latter won out in his decision making regarding where and how he continues in his chosen profession.

Recruiting? We're still going to recruit, and football will be played.

But last thing.....since the way this situation ahs been handled publicly.....regarding the conflict between sociopolitical religious tolerance, and enforcement of the establishment clause.

I will have a difficult choice to be tolerant publicly to people making decisions regarding the actions of my state university, regarding scheduling of fall football games, that interfere with my right to grill non-kosher pork products and eat them in daylight hours.

Carl my good friend, you missed my point. The point was not about people of different faiths or no faith at all being on the team, it was a point that if a coach said that they were going to bring Allah into the huddle as a matter of official team routine, those who condemn SH on her stand as being PC is suspect would not urge such tolerance toward the coaching agenda. They understand not the Constitution of the US.

 

[JaYnYcE]

Sorry to see him go, but it was his choice. If he was forced out, it would've been awhile ago. Hard to speculate if it was related or not. If he feels the backlash was too serious at our school, then I have no idea what he'd expect at a big-time University in the North. I hope it was something personal and unrelated and that he finds success wherever he goes, whether or not I agree with his personal take on spirituality.

I fixed that for you

 

[formerlurker]

Let's blame Dez for everything and move on.

 

[ktuck911]

First thing I thought when I read about E. Jones resigning was we need to get out s*** together... Inexcusable, IMO, for us to go thru this crap now...

 

[cohenzone]

There are pockets of the country where the population would be okay with what his message is and pockets where it's not okay. I don't think the Mason-Dixon line is the only way to measure it.

To reiterate, this hire never should have happened because the outcome was inevitable. The only variable was the time frame.

You are undoubtably correct, which says more about the religious training in those pockets than it does about their care or comprehension of our Constitution or whether it should be okay at the U of Alabama. It's why people of non-Christian religions and no religion at all are at least at the margin of risk from the true believers becoming politically dominant. See the Texas Board of Ed and talk to Jews in Texas about how they feel about the Board. I have and it is not a happy thing for them.

 

[Chin Diesel]

You are undoubtably correct, which says more about the religious training about those pockets than it does about their care or comprehension of our Constitution or whether it should be okay at the U of Alabama. It's why people of non-Christian religions and no religion at all are at least at the margin of risk from the true believers becoming politically dominant. See the Texas Board of Ed and talk to Jews in Texas about how they feel about the Board. I have and it is not a happy thing for them.

Here's a good article an map showing where and how the strands of ethnicity, economic class and religion meander through the country. Very few states are homogenous. It's a matter of mix. In Connecticut the mix is heavily leaned towards not professing faith as a state employee while in the performance of their jobs. In other states, the mix leans differently.

http://www.tufts.edu/alumni/magazine/fall2013/features/up-in-arms.html

 

[Chin Diesel]

For recruiting of course,but I stand by te Allh sate


Carl my good friend, you missed my point. The point was not about people of different faiths or no faith at all being on the team, it was a point that if a coach said that they were going to bring Allah into the huddle as a matter of official team routine, those who condemn SH on her stand as being PC is suspect would not urge such tolerance toward the coaching agenda. They understand not the Constitution of the US.

I won't speak for anyone else, but my point was that the "Allah in the Huddle" is a strawman and not worth considering because it won't ever happen on the football field. Might it occur elsewhere at a public university? Maybe/probably.

But football coaches have a funny thing about wanting to win and wanting to keep their job.

 

[metsfan2323]

Let's blame Dez for everything and move on.

Yeah, Dez could have helped a brother out instead he finked on him like a hallway monitor.

 

[Chin Diesel]

You are undoubtably correct, which says more about the religious training in those pockets than it does about their care or comprehension of our Constitution or whether it should be okay at the U of Alabama. It's why people of non-Christian religions and no religion at all are at least at the margin of risk from the true believers becoming politically dominant. See the Texas Board of Ed and talk to Jews in Texas about how they feel about the Board. I have and it is not a happy thing for them.

I have to admit I never understood why anyone would want to live anywhere in this country that isn't a good fit for them culturally. It's why you'll never see me live in NYC or any other major metro area.

It's the 21st C. If it's that much of an issue and you are in an area where your beliefs are so far in the minority that you'll have to deal with decisions well outside your beliefs, move. And if you make the decision that moving is too much of a burden and you're stuck there, suck it up. Life's about prioritizing choices.

And if you don't like public education, make sacrifices and put your kids in private school. My family does it.

 

[metsfan2323]

I won't speak for anyone else, but my point was that the "Allah in the Huddle" is a strawman and not worth considering because it won't ever happen on the football field. Might it occur elsewhere at a public university? Maybe/probably.

But football coaches have a funny thing about wanting to win and wanting to keep their job.

Nope, by definition it is not a strawman argument at all but your point about it never happening in this country is probably valid. I'm not sure we even have any Muslim head coaches, it's probably difficult for them to find jobs. Maybe soccer coaches.

 

[rich1122]

The job probably ended up being not what he expected and he would not have been able to handle it the way he wanted. He had his principles and he stuck by them it seems. Good for him. Probably understands the Blue State mentality now. Hope that they keep this position though, even if they have to frame it a different way. It really is something that was needed.

 

[Chin Diesel]

Nope, by definition it is not a strawman argument at all.

Giving as an example something that isn't going to occur then saying why it shouldn't happen is the exact definition of a straw man.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/strawman

Full Definition of STRAW MAN
1
: a weak or imaginary opposition (as an argument or adversary) set up only to be easily confuted

 

[metsfan2323]

Giving as an example something that isn't going to occur then saying why it shouldn't happen is the exact definition of a straw man.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/strawman

Full Definition of STRAW MAN
1
: a weak or imaginary opposition (as an argument or adversary) set up only to be easily confuted

answer this question honestly then. Why do you think it will never occur?

 

[junglehusky]

I have to admit I never understood why anyone would want to live anywhere in this country that isn't a good fit for them culturally. It's why you'll never see me live in NYC or any other major metro area.

It's the 21st C. If it's that much of an issue and you are in an area where your beliefs are so far in the minority that you'll have to deal with decisions well outside your beliefs, move.

People have been doing exactly that for quite some time now. It's not even a question of north versus south, people are self-segregating (primarily along economic and social lines, but also racial/religious) zip code by zip code. There's a book I got for christmas a while back on this topic ... uh, I haven't read yet but I will read it soon.

Anyway, as to Mr. Jones, my wild-ass guess is that after the JC-in-the-huddle controversey he was asked if he could "play ball" and do his job without proselytizing and initially he said yes but over time came to realize that maybe he couldn't separate being a leader of young men and being a preacher. There are some Christians who can talk about morals and personal development, etc. without being explicitly Christian while doing it, but others aren't comfortable for whatever reason.

Either that, or he had an unrelated source of friction with HCBD or other coaches on the staff, would be my guess. Or he actually does have a family related concern that required him to leave the job or move, though that sounds like more of a contributing factor.

 

[cohenzone]

Here's a good article an map showing where and how the strands of ethnicity, economic class and religion meander through the country. Very few states are homogenous. It's a matter of mix. In Connecticut the mix is heavily leaned towards not professing faith as a state employee while in the performance of their jobs. In other states, the mix leans differently.

http://www.tufts.edu/alumni/magazine/fall2013/features/up-in-arms.html

View attachment 5049

I think teaching Constitutional history is bare bones sucky in our country. Kids learn more about Columbus than they do Samuel Adams (not the brew) and Thomas Jefferson, Madison, Jackson and others who shaped the direction of the country, for better or worse. Jerry Falwell was not a founding father.

 

[Chin Diesel]

answer this question honestly then. Why do you think it will never occur?

I already did earlier in this thread, but......

There isn't a large enough population willing to sustain a public university program that has coaches praising Allah. Freedom of association is as much a part of our Constitution as freedom of religion. And it's not just Islam. As I wrote earlier you couldn't do it with Jews, Wiccans, Agnositcs/Atheists or any combination other than Christianity. Doesn't mean you have to go down the road. But if you do then due to the sheer number of players you need, Christianity would be the only path to success for football.

Could a private school do it? Probably. Whether exclusively or near exclusively there are several schools with religious affiliations that have made it.

Could you try it for other sports that require a smaller pool of athletes for success? Probably.

 

[Chin Diesel]

I think teaching Constitutional history is bare bones sucky in our country. Kids learn more about Columbus than they do Samuel Johnson (not the brew) and Thomas Jefferson, Madison, Jackson and others who shaped the direction of the country, for better or worse. Jerry Falwell was not a founding father.

I agree. I'd much rather schools focus more time on the three R's and science, history and civics. Which is why I took my kids out of public schools. Choices.

 

[metsfan2323]

I already did earlier in this thread, but.

There isn't a large enough population willing to sustain a public university program that has coaches praising Allah. Freedom of association is as much a part of our Constitution as freedom of religion. And it's not just Islam. As I wrote earlier you couldn't do it with Jews, Wiccans, Agnositcs/Atheists or any combination other than Christianity. Doesn't mean you have to go down the road. But if you do then due to the sheer number of players you need, Christianity would be the only path to success for football.

Could a private school do it? Probably. Whether exclusively or near exclusively there are several schools with religious affiliations that have made it.

Could you try it for other sports that require a smaller pool of athletes for success? Probably.

So if UCONN hired a Muslim soccer coach who thought having Allah on the sideline would help him recruit, you would say Herbst should just keep her mouth shut and let the coach win?