OT: - Enoch visiting Louisville | Page 3 | The Boneyard

OT: Enoch visiting Louisville

djct1999 said:
It doesn't really matter what Pitino thinks. We saw him for two years and not once did he show he can play impactful minutes on both sides of the floor.
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I am a lot more high on Steve than you. He was terrible this year and wouldn't have been playable for a good team. I don't think he was managed/handled well but I think he will be good in the future. But he needs to pick a good system and Louisville seems like a pretty bad fit.
 
djct1999 said:
It doesn't really matter what Pitino thinks. We saw him for two years and not once did he show he can play impactful minutes on both sides of the floor.
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^^^^^This, plus Pitino's judgment on recruiting matters hasn't exactly been state of the art in recent years, to say the least. It all depends upon what he didn't know, and when he didn't know it. ;)
 
Never cared, he's brutal, throw this board in the garbage...,,
 
intlzncster said:
Yeah, but...
1. could he play D? Which is the more important question.
2. that's comparing him to Brimah. lol not the highest of bars there.
3. Didn't seem to be able to translate practice play to game play.
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I think he can be a better post defender than Brimah because he can hold position. Brimah always was a better help defender than a post defender.
 
Mano said:
So either you're saying you really don't know what refute means, or you are saying that you know how to coach basketball better than. Jimmy C?
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LOL - You just don't get it. Jim is a loyal man and doesn't agree with me that Glen couldn't coach Bigs. Agree to disagree on that as they say.
 
Chief00 said:
I can assure you Calhoun would refute my assessment of Glen Miller's Bigs Coaching.
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If Calhoun would refute you, then I'm going to have to side against you on this one Chief.

I'll grant you that there seems to have been something wrong in the connection between Glen and Enoch. He certainly didn't develop, and he and his family seemed to think different coaches would have enabled him to develop.
 
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intlzncster said:
He gave us a better chance to win games this year. That's the only reason you play is to try and win the game. Otherwise, why bother?
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That's right. If you're not playing to win, you're Diacoing, and we all know how that turns out.
 
Fishy said:
Rick Pitino seems to think he's good enough to take up a scholarship for the next three years - Pitino's pretty good at this sort of thing, so perhaps we're wrong and Enoch actually has potential.
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I think Enoch does have potential, and I think with the right coaching he will turn out to be a decent to good player. The issue I have with the coaching staff is:

1. they don't seem to be able to develop bigs
2. they keep bringing in projects at that position

Something has to change to reconcile those two points. It's definitely a little too convenient of me to say "oh well gee this staff needs to really just start bringing in one or two of those high school kids who come in with a polished game at that position", but the point still stands. I'd like to see the issue addressed. I know we've gotten away with average production from that spot in the last few years, but we shouldn't and can't always rely on otherworldly guard play to carry us to the promised land.
 
Pudge said:
I feel like many never played on a team. Enoch got minutes and opportunity. And UConn - with Brimah and Facey - had opportunities through mid February to exceed where they actually ended up. I AM a big proponent of Steve Enoch's potential. Unfortunately, that kid showed that he couldn't sustain a winning post effort in the last 6 weeks of the season. And I am going to bet that paralleled what he did in practice. I back Ollie in what was a key 2016-2017 development. You nudge Enoch ... but you are not doing your Program nor Steven Enoch any good giving him minutes beyond what he has proven is his. A 20 minute Enoch allotment only should have come with better performance on defense/rebounding and in practice daily. Calhoun would have eaten that kid up.
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Calhoun would have turned that kid into a lottery pick!
 
Enoch has a high ceiling, and I can see him being a good player, but the chances of him ever coming close to reaching his ceiling is pretty low.

He flashes pretty post moves, but with his defense he needs to be at around 60% TS to be a stud center. So far in college he's at 48.8%. It's hard to project someone to improve that much, though it has been done.

Enoch is a weak rebounder, he's turnover prone, foul prone, and has shot at a low percentage thus far. That is a laundry list of problems to ask a kid to solve.

As a CT kid, I will root for him, even if he is at Louisville, but I'm not too worried about him making us look bad.
 
Most pints here are valid.

I still would have liked to see Enoch get more minutes last year.

Painful to watch minutes as a fan and most likely infuriating to watch as a coach.

But I would have liked him to get all those minutes. Even if he fouled out in 14 minutes.

I wanted to see him get reps.
 
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Chin Diesel said:
Most pints here are valid.

I still would have liked to see Enoch get more minutes last year.

Painful to watch minutes as a fan and most likely infuriating to watch as a coach.

But I would have liked him to get all those minutes. Even if he fouled out in 14 minutes.

I wanted to see him get reps.
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We realized we needed to win the AACT to go dancing in January/February. Why he didn't get reps despite fouls and poor defense is beyond me. Even when we were up in games by 15+ he was still on the pine in favor of Brimah.
 
The notion that he is a terrible player is ridiculous. The narrative even before his freshman year was that he was young and raw - but would become a beast his junior and senior year. He obviously had a lot of work to do, especially defensively, but you could see glimpses of his offensive talent and I was excited for that to grow here. He certainly could have used more minutes, but he's gone - he'll probably benefit from a year off and be productive wherever he goes.

It seems some people forget that you get better at doing things with more experience. The kid was a young sophomore.
 
ConnHuskBask said:
Simply put, the kid looked absolutely lost on the court. Maybe that's some coaching (and I've been very critical of Ollie and co.) but there is just a certain innate basketball IQ that some guys either have or don't.

If Enoch showed 1 "plus" characteristic besides his frame I think he could amount to something, but I just don't see it.
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Agreed, not sure what some fans saw over the last two years other than looking through rose-colored glasses because he's from CT. I still wish he stayed so we could try to develop him further especially given the current state of our front court. You never know with bigs.

That being said, Enoch has shown virtually nothing in two years. His offensive potential has been overstated by some folks around here more than any element of any player in recent history. The kid shot 7/24 against Power 5 and Big East teams this year. You take out the Auburn game and he shot 3/17. Yet some of our fans swear he was on the verge of being our best post scorer since Emeka. He looked lost for two years and looked bothered by the speed and physicality of the game in the friggin AAC, even against the bottom-feeders. He completely whiffed on box outs far too often. His offensive game is below average, he's a poor rebounder and his defense is as bad as it gets for a big. And as you mentioned, his IQ and feel for the game simply isn't there.

Despite all that, programs will always take a shot on a 6'10 250 kid who isn't a complete stiff. Maybe as a 5th year senior he could crack the rotation at a school like Louisville. Still, I will be surprised if he ever amounts to anything at a Top 20 program.
 
HuskyCLT said:
The notion that he is a terrible player is ridiculous.
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It's not ridiculous. It's been the truth the last 2 years.

HuskyCLT said:
The narrative even before his freshman year was that he was young and raw - but would become a beast his junior and senior year. He obviously had a lot of work to do, especially defensively, but you could see glimpses of his offensive talent and I was excited for that to grow here. He certainly could have used more minutes, but he's gone - he'll probably benefit from a year off and be productive wherever he goes.

It seems some people forget that you get better at doing things with more experience. The kid was a young sophomore
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But that's not to say he wouldn'tve gotten better. Obviously I'd like to have him as part of the rotation this year. You invest 2 years into a guy and suffered through when he played poorly, you want to reap any rewards of improved play. It's a bummer. But how good will he end up? Who knows, he's starting from a pretty low spot, so any improvement will have to be pretty extreme. He's got tools though (which is why high majors are taking a look).
 
pj said:
If Calhoun would refute you, then I'm going to have to side against you on this one Chief.

I'll grant you that there seems to have been something wrong in the connection between Glen and Enoch. He certainly didn't develop, and he and his family seemed to think different coaches would have enabled him to develop.
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Fair enough. But to me Enoch and Durham not improving more was a real bad sign for the program and this will make it really difficult to recruit informed Bigs.
 
"... he is starting from a pretty low spot"

NO ... he is not. Enoch is gifted. That is what one side of the BY is trying to highlight. He is physically blessed and that is why a Louisville or other major top 25 Programs will try to eke out that talent. Did he play abysmally bad defense at times? No question. But ... the simple definitive statement that he sucks simply does not correspond to the reality. And for those that insist that I have presented basic insight ... it is that simple. He is Big and Wide. His Hands - which I always think are incredibly underappreciated in hoop - are excellent. His offense shows signs of subtle fine attention to post moves. What I saw disappointed me because it speaks to a kid that does not seriously effort his way through his minutes on the court. Blocking out (he was better than Brimah) is effort. And being aggressive on YOUR man is a point of pride. You are not going to convince me that he should have gotten 20 minute pg just because we needed him in 2017-2018.
 
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I'd rather put the players on the floor who give the team the best opportunity to win. If a guy can't get onto the floor, he needs to do the things in practice and in his limited playing time to prove he needs more minutes.
 
Fishy said:
Rick Pitino seems to think he's good enough to take up a scholarship for the next three years - Pitino's pretty good at this sort of thing, so perhaps we're wrong and Enoch actually has potential.
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Has anybody said otherwise though? I mean, the bar has certainly been set even higher than Louisville with regards to his potential. The NBA is watching, or at least they were when he stepped on campus. Bilas said way back in November of 2015 that he was the best pro prospect on the roster.

It doesn't surprise me that a guy like Pitino would see the potential and take a flier. Store him for a year, have him train and practice against a top 10 type team, then roll him out there as a junior and see where he is. If he isn't far enough along after that, he probably grad transfers down a level after his junior year.

I've been hard on the staff, but nothing about him visiting Louisville tells us anything we didn't already know. It may very well be that the staff sucks at developing big men, but him transferring up a level isn't in and of itself an indictment on the staff.

And for what it's worth, there is a 0.0% chance that Enoch would have seen the floor for Pitino this year. V.J. King only played 13 minutes a game because of defense, and he was a lot further along than Enoch at the other end. He's about as big a stickler for the things that Steve wasn't as they come.
 
upstater said:
I'd rather put the players on the floor who give the team the best opportunity to win. If a guy can't get onto the floor, he needs to do the things in practice and in his limited playing time to prove he needs more minutes.
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Agreed. People seem to forget that the coaches see a lot more of these kids than fans do. A coach isn't going to throw a kid out on the court, even if the season is lost, if the player isn't showing enough during practice. Those minutes still have to be earned. Based on what we saw during games from Enoch, and for all of Brimah's shortcomings, there's no way he was showing enough in practice or earning those minutes.
 
Pudge said:
"... he is starting from a pretty low spot"

NO ... he is not. Enoch is gifted. That is what one side of the BY is trying to highlight. He is physically blessed and that is why a Louisville or other major top 25 Programs will try to eke out that talent. Did he play abysmally bad defense at times? No question. But ... the simple definitive statement that he sucks simply does not correspond to the reality. And for those that insist that I have presented basic insight ... it is that simple. He is Big and Wide. His Hands - which I always think are incredibly underappreciated in hoop - are excellent. His offense shows signs of subtle fine attention to post moves. What I saw disappointed me because it speaks to a kid that does not seriously effort his way through his minutes on the court. Blocking out (he was better than Brimah) is effort. And being aggressive on YOUR man is a point of pride. You are not going to convince me that he should have gotten 20 minute pg just because we needed him in 2017-2018.
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Good analysis. With the right type of effort and focus he can become a load inside.
 
MadDogRevival said:
I've silently watched people on this board pummel your @ss for six years like a promiscuous gay sailor getting a train from a drunken contingent of womenless comrades who have been at sea far too long, and I've actually felt bad for you. There have been a few gems and diamonds in the rough mixed in with the crawler/bucket loads of gravel and chaff, and you seem genuine, as hard as that is to believe.

BUT COME ON. The only UConn player that Enoch has ever been better than was that dude who brought his chair to the highlight video. And man, I'm not talking about the dude (can't believe I can't remember his name - I liked him. Looked like the Predator) I'M TALKING ABOUT THE CHAIR.

I'm going to drink Kool-Aid right now and join the flat earth conspiracy theorists on this board who believe that you're Fishy's bizzarro-world alter ego, playing Pluto to his Goofy, to drum up page hits and clicks to sell the banner ads here. Hay zeus, you got me.
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Post/handle epic melt.
 
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MadDogRevival said:
I've silently watched people on this board pummel your @ss for six years like a promiscuous gay sailor getting a train from a drunken contingent of womenless comrades who have been at sea far too long, and I've actually felt bad for you. There have been a few gems and diamonds in the rough mixed in with the crawler/bucket loads of gravel and chaff, and you seem genuine, as hard as that is to believe.

BUT COME ON. The only UConn player that Enoch has ever been better than was that dude who brought his chair to the highlight video. And man, I'm not talking about the dude (can't believe I can't remember his name - I liked him. Looked like the Predator) I'M TALKING ABOUT THE CHAIR.

I'm going to drink Kool-Aid right now and join the flat earth conspiracy theorists on this board who believe that you're Fishy's bizzarro-world alter ego, playing Pluto to his Goofy, to drum up page hits and clicks to sell the banner ads here. Hay zeus, you got me.
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Welcome abroad - congratulations on your 9th post - it's great to see casual fans getting more engaged and attempting to move up the learning curve.

Of course, you are very wrong about a lot of things including your analysis of Enoch but that's besides the point. So now you believe you can assess talent better than Rick Pitino - it's truly a great country!
 
Pudge said:
"... he is starting from a pretty low spot"

NO ... he is not. Enoch is gifted. That is what one side of the BY is trying to highlight. He is physically blessed and that is why a Louisville or other major top 25 Programs will try to eke out that talent. Did he play abysmally bad defense at times? No question. But ... the simple definitive statement that he sucks simply does not correspond to the reality. And for those that insist that I have presented basic insight ... it is that simple. He is Big and Wide. His Hands - which I always think are incredibly underappreciated in hoop - are excellent. His offense shows signs of subtle fine attention to post moves. What I saw disappointed me because it speaks to a kid that does not seriously effort his way through his minutes on the court. Blocking out (he was better than Brimah) is effort. And being aggressive on YOUR man is a point of pride. You are not going to convince me that he should have gotten 20 minute pg just because we needed him in 2017-2018.
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You quoted that badly out of context (I think? Couldn't follow your argument to the end). He's starting from a low spot of production, independent of any gifts. There is no refuting that. I said right after that he had the tools, but they didn't translate to anything while at UConn.
 
Enoch is immature and didn't work hard enough to improve, especially on effort-based tasks like defense and rebounding. Immature kids often grow up. He has all the physical tools to excel as a basketball player. Maybe the maturity will come. A change of scenery will be good for him as it means you can't blame failure on your coaches, so forces some introspection. The transfer also gives him an extra year of college ball which he needs. We shall see.

I hope Enoch becomes a good player. I wouldn't worry about his success making Ollie look bad, these things happen, Ollie's reputation is in his own hands, if UConn succeeds no one will care if a good player got away.
 
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