Duke launches investigation into possible player mistreatment

[Rocket009]

An internal investigation by the Duke administration for the welfare of their student athletes. What laugh!
Does anyone remember the Duke investigation of the men's lacrosse team. The admin threw the entire team including their coach under the bus and ruined the life of several of their players in the name of political correctness. One of the most unethical and despicable actions by a college administration in the history of college athletics. Guilty until proven innocent---even proof of innocence wasn't enough for an administration bound and determined to have a lynching.

Riding on the Duke bus must be a REALLY bumpy ride. They either have great suspension or...

 

[Geno-ista]

Duke University- an elite bastion of integrity when it comes to investigations!
What the entire University did to that Duke Lacrosse team and coach was one of the most horrific things in history. Did anyone out there see the recent ESPN 30 for 30 - the Big lie ??? It was mortifying what they did to 40 kids and came very close to sending 3 innocent kids to a federal prison. Jay Bilas was the only brave person associated w Duke to ask the question if there was any proof! Coach K was silent!!! And that coach was supposedly his best friend on campus. Biggest which hunt in history. Duke Univ- they can have it!!!

 

[Dillon77]

You stated that "when you are successful Administrations (and I assume the NCAA) will not take a serious view of comments by players". If that were true, Connie Yori would still be coaching at Nebraska.

The Nebraska situation must've been concerning enough to Nebraska that they conducted the investigation during the season and it seemed to haves split the team in two, with a few citing that is one reason why the team spiraled. At this current stage, you have star guard (Natalie Romeo) looking into leaving, while frosh Jessica Shephard's dad said she liked the coach but also liked Nebraska. And you've got male practice players saying this year was the easiest practice atmosphere they've been a part of and blame it on entitled new players. So there's a stew of opinions. Plus, Yori's very contentious divorce was starting to seep into the mix. Here's a link on one such article: Players 'distraught' following Connie Yori's resignation as Nebraska women's basketball coach; touted guard signees assessing situation

So whatever the results, the Administration thought it best to sever and this led to the separation. In this case, it was a resignation agreed-upon payout for Yori. Incidentally, because that was technically a "resignation," the assistants are not bound to any severance by the administration. Linda Williams, the successful South Dakota coach and Cornhusker alum, will now have quite a situation on her hands. BTW,one of the better recruits - Micole Cayton -- is reopening her college search while another -- Kathleen Doyle, Ms. Basketball in Indiana -- was discussing with her parents (and probably seeing what shook out.) Stay tuned on all fronts....

Seems like AD White might be following a similar modus operandi.

 

[bags27]

one of the most horrific things in history.
Biggest which hunt in history.

Sadly, there have been lots, lots worse.

 

[mainejeff]

Yikes! do we need to know this?

Well, it is sorta what this thread is talking about. Provides a framework for what might be going on.

 

[HuskyNan]

Well, it is sorta what this thread is talking about. Provides a framework for what might be going on.

If you have proof, post it, otherwise it's harmful speculation.

 

[xHunt3r]

Well, it is sorta what this thread is talking about. Provides a framework for what might be going on.

While that may be true it's complete speculation to connect the two and will lead to people to jump to conclusions they shouldn't... everyone should just wait and let the investigation run it's course...

 

[Dillon77]

Just a few points.
- My main reason for the post is that the modus operandi being used by the two educational institutions is somewhat similar...an internal investigation.
This has been picked up not just by posters (like me) but media that cover the school: Duke conducting 'evaluation' of women's basketball program. Could be the most "fair" way (objective sense) or the way to get around a long(er)-term contract (cynic's view).
- There were clearly delineated complaints at Nebraska that led to this investigation. (there are a slew of articles on this if you google Yori Resigns)
- Nebraska has kept the specific findings of their investigation private, which I bet was part of the payout deal with Yori. Since Duke is a private institution, I'll wager whatever comes of this is kept under stricter lock and key.
- Yori has had a very successful run, going to the NCAA a lot more than she hasn't in the last five-six years.
- Once again, I'm not defending or accusing either/or in these cases, but more pointing out how both are utilizing internal investigations.

My gut tells me that if Duke is undertaking an investigation like this, there will be some changes...

 

[JellyBean]

These investigations seem to be getting assigned to the universities' lawyers. I'm just curious what all these lawyers are using for their definition of "mistreatment" and whether that is a moving target. "I know it when I see it" or "everybody knows what it is" just doesn't cut it. So what is the standard for what is "mistreatment" and what is not "mistreatment", what is the source of that standard, is it written down anywhere, and how has it been communicated to coaches?

 

[mainejeff]

If you have proof, post it, otherwise it's harmful speculation.

They don't release hospital records due to privacy laws. You know that. If I were a Husky fan, you would be celebrating my statement.......I've read a lot worse on here.

 

[mainejeff]

While that may be true it's complete speculation to connect the two and will lead to people to jump to conclusions they shouldn't... everyone should just wait and let the investigation run it's course...

Well maybe EVERYONE on here should stop speculating then! If anything, I'm letting you know that maybe this isn't all her fault and that she needs help. Of course that would put holes in your Big Bad JPM narrative.......

 

[HuskyNan]

They don't release hospital records due to privacy laws. You know that. If I were a Husky fan, you would be celebrating my statement..I've read a lot worse on here.

No, it has nothing to do with being a Husky fan. It has to do with anonymous Internet posters trashing the reputation of people without a shred of proof.

The previous comments you're referring to have a basis in fact, many of which were video taped, such as press conferences. McCallie's performance in those pressers were open to scrutiny and criticized, often harshly. That has nothing to do with speculation someone may have made up.

 

[mainejeff]

No, it has nothing to do with being a Husky fan. It has to do with anonymous Internet posters trashing the reputation of people without a shred of proof.

The previous comments you're referring to have a basis in fact, many of which were video taped, such as press conferences. McCallie's performance in those pressers were open to scrutiny and criticized, often harshly. That has nothing to do with speculation someone may have made up.

Here ya go, Ms. Nan.........

She is honest about the difficulty of juggling a high-stress career as a college coach with the desire to be a good parent. She reveals how unprepared she was for the rigors of new parenthood, which landed her in the hospital suffering from exhaustion. From those days she says she learned how important it is to “be clear about what you can control and to remain consistent to it in times of difficulty.”

McCallie’s book fulfills promise to daughter; signings set in Portland, Bangor

 

[xHunt3r]

Well maybe EVERYONE on here should stop speculating then! If anything, I'm letting you know that maybe this isn't all her fault and that she needs help. Of course that would put holes in your Big Bad JPM narrative..

My narrative? What is my narrative? I haven't posted anything in this thread about McCallie .

 

[HuskyNan]

Here ya go, Ms. Nan....

She is honest about the difficulty of juggling a high-stress career as a college coach with the desire to be a good parent. She reveals how unprepared she was for the rigors of new parenthood, which landed her in the hospital suffering from exhaustion. From those days she says she learned how important it is to “be clear about what you can control and to remain consistent to it in times of difficulty.”

McCallie’s book fulfills promise to daughter; signings set in Portland, Bangor

See, how hard was that?

 

[Wally East]

What the entire University did to that Duke Lacrosse team and coach was one of the most horrific things in history.

But at least we're not being hyperbolic in discussing it

 

[mainejeff]

See, how hard was that?

It wasn't hard at all. I had forgotten that your standards are much higher for non-Husky fans when posting on here.

 

[CocoHusky]

Just a few points.
- My main reason for the post is that the modus operandi being used by the two educational institutions is somewhat similar...an internal investigation.
This has been picked up not just by posters (like me) but media that cover the school: Duke conducting 'evaluation' of women's basketball program. Could be the most "fair" way (objective sense) or the way to get around a long(er)-term contract (cynic's view).
- There were clearly delineated complaints at Nebraska that led to this investigation. (there are a slew of articles on this if you google Yori Resigns)
- Nebraska has kept the specific findings of their investigation private, which I bet was part of the payout deal with Yori. Since Duke is a private institution, I'll wager whatever comes of this is kept under stricter lock and key.
- Yori has had a very successful run, going to the NCAA a lot more than she hasn't in the last five-six years.
- Once again, I'm not defending or accusing either/or in these cases, but more pointing out how both are utilizing internal investigations.

My gut tells me that if Duke is undertaking an investigation like this, there will be some changes...

While I agree with most of your points would like to point out a counter example-where an internal investigation resulted in no finding of wrong doing ,the coach retained his position, and no additional transfers (ie. No Changes)
Illinois women's basketball investigation finds no wrongdoing, discrimination[/QUOTE]

 

[CocoHusky]

It wasn't hard at all. I had forgotten that your standards are much higher for non-Husky fans when posting on here.

Not true & very very weak of you to think it was!

 

[bags27]

It wasn't hard at all. I had forgotten that your standards are much higher for non-Husky fans when posting on here.

What you initially implied (I think/hope that's been deleted) and what is at least in the summary of her book are not exactly the same, and the difference is significant. To my mind, what you posted transcends what is good and proper to relate publicly, and if you don't see the difference then you're not going to appreciate that this has absolutely nothing to do with what team you root for.

 

[Dillon77]

While I agree with most of your points would like to point out a counter example-where an internal investigation resulted in no finding of wrong doing ,the coach retained his position, and no additional transfers (ie. No Changes)
Illinois women's basketball investigation finds no wrongdoing, discrimination

[/QUOTE]

Hey...Thanks. I think respectful discourse is great -- one of the ways in which we learn. Thanks for passing this along. I (now) remember reading it back in 2014. Interestingly, the end result of this (for now) was just released: Illinois reaches settlements with Tim Beckman, former women's basketball players

The University settled out of court with the b-ball players that launched the initial suit for a far less sum than they were looking for. Looks like the one assistant in question -- who did lose his job -- was cited for harsh coaching but not for discrimination, which was the crux of the suit.
Both the former and current AD's have continued to support the HC, so we'll see what happens.

 

[UcMiami]

A couple of things:
When there are issues under review with coaches and players it is very seldom 'cut and dried' and you can seldom 'go to the video tape' as they could with the Rutgers basketball coach. In most instances there has been one group of players and former players that are making complaints and another group of players and former players staunchly defending a coach. Athletic excellence requires blood sweat and tears, and it usually involves pushing athletes beyond the limits of what they thought they could do - that is a very frequent statement by both current players and former players at Uconn and within most programs that achieve national success. And the process of breaking through those limits is a combination of players being committed and of coaches pushing hard - that gets to the border of 'mistreatment' and also to the border of masochistic and other mental disorder (see Shea Ralph story) in the athletes themselves. Being 'world class' in any pursuit generally requires a level of 'imbalance' in individuals that can be frightening to mere mortals - where is the line between genius and madness is a frequent discussion and you can look at people like Bobby Fisher, or a movie like 'A Beautiful Mind' for the mental edge, just as you can look at stories of athletes and musicians and scientists who have crossed those lines. And you can look at world class coaches in the same light - Bobby Knight crossing over to the dark side on occasions is well documented.

That is all to say that issues of coaching hard vs. mistreatment are very difficult to determine, especially for outsiders - pushing one player who wants to be pushed may be great coaching, pushing another who has reached breaking point may be terrible and judging the two situation is not easy. Having multiple coaches empowered to modulate and take the temperature I think is the easiest way to avoid most problems and something that Uconn seems to do very well - but they have a very stable staff that also helps, and they are in a position to be very selective in the players they recruit which also helps.

As far as the specifics involved at Nebraska and Duke - of course lawyers are involved and whatever findings they come to are seldom to the level of 'cause' in terms of employment and the breaking of a contract, and the cost of defending a contract termination for 'cause' both in legal fees and PR hits is seldom worth it - hence almost every contract termination that is not clear cut includes significant buy-out provisions. We have no idea what the Duke investigation will come up with, and we have no idea what the Nebraska investigation results were. At Nebraska it is clear that at least one player felt the accusations were unfounded and has chosen to leave partly because of the rift created within the team and the resignation of a coach she liked.

 

[UcMiami]

Specific to any correlation at Duke between the current situation and the lacrosse team is ridiculous - the lacrosse team was involved in an outside criminal investigation led by a prosecutor on a mission - there was very little 'internal' about it. The clearest correlation I see for the latter is the situation at PSU.

In both situations a university found itself in the middle of a criminal investigation involving reprehensible accusations and a resultant media firestorm and they both responded in fairly similar ways with suspensions to personnel or students - a fairly typical response for any organization with members under criminal investigation. That in one case the accusations proved true and the other they were a tissue of lies is really immaterial to how the initial reactions are judged. I have not seen the 30 for 30 review and am going to search it out.

But one thing that did come out and was I believe correctly reported was the disregard by the coach and the athletic department of numerous complaints of unruly partying and underage drinking associated with the lacrosse team - a situation that is similar to numerous other situations involving athletic departments around the country, and one of the contributing factors sited in the PSU case, where 'big time college program' issues get preferential treatment within universities and their communities. With coaches and players, results usually trump behavioral issues until the behavioral issue are thrust into the glaring light of a media firestorm and can no longer be ignored. (UNC is struggling to keep there 'behavioral issues' (academic fraud) on the periphery of such glaring light and it says a lot about society that they are somewhat succeeding while more salacious scandals lead the news.)

 

[Crossover]

A couple of things:
When there are issues under review with coaches and players it is very seldom 'cut and dried' and you can seldom 'go to the video tape' as they could with the Rutgers basketball coach. In most instances there has been one group of players and former players that are making complaints and another group of players and former players staunchly defending a coach. Athletic excellence requires blood sweat and tears, and it usually involves pushing athletes beyond the limits of what they thought they could do - that is a very frequent statement by both current players and former players at Uconn and within most programs that achieve national success. And the process of breaking through those limits is a combination of players being committed and of coaches pushing hard - that gets to the border of 'mistreatment' and also to the border of masochistic and other mental disorder (see Shea Ralph story) in the athletes themselves. Being 'world class' in any pursuit generally requires a level of 'imbalance' in individuals that can be frightening to mere mortals - where is the line between genius and madness is a frequent discussion and you can look at people like Bobby Fisher, or a movie like 'A Beautiful Mind' for the mental edge, just as you can look at stories of athletes and musicians and scientists who have crossed those lines. And you can look at world class coaches in the same light - Bobby Knight crossing over to the dark side on occasions is well documented.

That is all to say that issues of coaching hard vs. mistreatment are very difficult to determine, especially for outsiders - pushing one player who wants to be pushed may be great coaching, pushing another who has reached breaking point may be terrible and judging the two situation is not easy. Having multiple coaches empowered to modulate and take the temperature I think is the easiest way to avoid most problems and something that Uconn seems to do very well - but they have a very stable staff that also helps, and they are in a position to be very selective in the players they recruit which also helps.

As far as the specifics involved at Nebraska and Duke - of course lawyers are involved and whatever findings they come to are seldom to the level of 'cause' in terms of employment and the breaking of a contract, and the cost of defending a contract termination for 'cause' both in legal fees and PR hits is seldom worth it - hence almost every contract termination that is not clear cut includes significant buy-out provisions. We have no idea what the Duke investigation will come up with, and we have no idea what the Nebraska investigation results were. At Nebraska it is clear that at least one player felt the accusations were unfounded and has chosen to leave partly because of the rift created within the team and the resignation of a coach she liked.

One of the most thoughtful posts I have read in a long time. This, together with Dillon77's posts (#53 et seq.), sets an awfully high bar.

 

[UcMiami]

Last post (I think!)
The whole issue of coaching behavior is a changing landscape in our society, and the nature of athletic competition at least at early ages has completely changed with the idea of maintaining children's self esteem and the proliferation of participation trophies. (A similar change has happened with birthday parties that I find really strange - the gift packages for every attendee as if we cannot recognize a birthday as unique to one child?!)
Besides nice things to say about Uconn the video in this link, JC Watts also talks about his early sports experience and how his coaches would be arrested for the things they did as routine.
Great quarterback & Congressman pays big tribute to our women
I do think with the amount of time playing games and the very limited practice time HS kids get, many really are unprepared for the rigorous demands placed on them in competitive college sports environments and that this is probably more true with women than with men. Society still expects boys to be 'tougher' and more stoic and girls, even gifted athletes, to be more 'emotional'. The line in 'A League of Their Own' - 'Are you crying? There's no crying in baseball!' sums it up.
Add to the surprise of really hard and long practice, the additional frustration of not being better than everyone else on the team, as many recruited athletes discover in their first weeks of practice, and the whole thing can get tied up in a feeling of 'mistreatment'.

I'm not saying that there is not mistreatment or other issues in college coaching - just that it is not a simple question. A coaching staff with turnover of assistants and not the right mix of criticism and support can provide players with no 'release point' for issues that arise and can lead to complaints that get couched as 'mistreatment'.