Does KO teach these guys how to run offense?

[Mr. French]

I heard Ollie never works on offense in practice, and in fact, he has no sets, no plays, no actions. He tells them every game "just go one on one, we'll be ok."

 

[ctchamps]

Of course he does, every practice. The issue is right now we don't have anyone who can hit a 3, or a big man teams actually have to pay attention to. So until CV wakes up and a big man ascends to a level of competence, its going to be Gilbert contested drives mixed with Jalen and Terry hero ball.

What I'm more concerned with is the terrible 3-point defense and our inability to close out defensive possessions.

We played terrific d until David picked up number 4. Without Cobb the guards were forced to adjust.

TL started second half hot. Not sure why Jalen got upset with him and took over shooting. Maybe game plan was to continue driving to basket and getting MS players out with foul trouble particularly when David picked up #4 but that failed.

Biggest thing for me is not to worry about this game. The outcome was as expected and actually the team played above expectations for 3/4 of game.

I’m concerned whether the players can shake off the loss and not come out against Arkansas in a funk. This season is about development. Given that KO had to scramble and find players well after the end of last season because players bailed and only two players have game experience together I was expecting a much worse start. So I’m pleasantly surprised.

 

[Allbite]

Honestly if I was told before the season started that we'd be 4-0 going into the game against Michigan state including a win against Oregon while giving MSU a pretty good fight til the last 5-6 minutes and had a shot to go 2-1 this tourney and pick up another quality win against Arkansas...id be pretty happy I think.

Arkansas is not bad. They will need to bring their A to win. Not a given at all.

 

[Allbite]

L

Thank you Zen all these people really are clueless to that fact. We must have a bunch of rookies here because people always complained about JC's offensive philosophy. I guess some are new to this place the others are so old they forgot. He had the horses KO doesn't, yet.

Listen, after last year, I just thank my lucky stars when they make it through a game without any serious injuries.

 

[Brochacho]

We played terrific d until David picked up number 4. Without Cobb the guards were forced to adjust.

I thought it was more of having MSU's better players in foul trouble and once we got to about ten minutes or so left in the game Izzo was able to release the full might of his team. We definitely competed hard on defense the first half though.

 

[RM99]

All we need is to add 3 inches and 35 pounds to our bigs and we can win a National Championship! I love this team...but did you see the size of MSU? We will be fun to watch and I think we can have a good season but it’s tough to play against the teams with that size. Go Huskies!!

 

[ctchamps]

I thought it was more of having MSU's better players in foul trouble and once we got to about ten minutes or so left in the game Izzo was able to release the full might of his team. We definitely competed hard on defense the first half though.

The only way we could be absolutely certain would have been to see the end of the game with Cobb available and David not in foul trouble. I’m not implying that the outcome would have been different but at least we would have a better indication which theory is correct.

It’s amazing how much a players mental state factors into a game. Winslow went into a zone at the end. Reminded me of UCLA’s Tyus Edney performance against us.

 

[Coach J]

Bingo. Ollie tried to do the same with Boatright and Shabazz, but that team didn't start clicking until they finally let Bazz take the reins.

For better or worse, Adams is this team's best player, so it's time they put the ball in his hands. Gilbert will still get plenty of run at PG, but Adams needs to more involved right from the jump.

Yes, Yes, Yes!!!!!!!

 

[Coach J]

I heard Ollie never works on offense in practice, and in fact, he has no sets, no plays, no actions. He tells them every game "just go one on one, we'll be ok."

Can't be true.

 

[sportsart]

The bottom line is having 6 assists in a game is not gonna cut it.

MSU had 12.

Maybe they need to implement the 5 pass rule before taking a shot. Of course that would be like running set plays.

 

[CL82]

This was also JC basketball too.

When JC had the talent for it, sure. I think you grossly under estimate his ability to find a successful way to use the pieces he has available.

 

[imno1]

Yes he teaches offense but when you only have one player who can hit an outside shot and no big who can do anything offensively you are going to struggle against a Top 5 team. Plus MSU got really hot. All in all I'll take 4-1 and see how we respond to Arkansas. I would like to see Polley play more. When he gains confidence and experience this team will be much better.

 

[sportsart]

The bottom line is having 6 assists in a game is not gonna cut it.

MSU had 12.

Maybe they need to implement the 5 pass rule before taking a shot. Of course that would be like running set plays.

As an FYI, UNC had 16 assists vs Arkansas and Duke had 21 vs Texas
(in OT)

The one on one stuff won't cut it in the long run.

 

[Coach J]

Yes he teaches offense but when you only have one player who can hit an outside shot and no big who can do anything offensively you are going to struggle against a Top 5 team. Plus MSU got really hot. All in all I'll take 4-1 and see how we respond to Arkansas. I would like to see Polley play more. When he gains confidence and experience this team will be much better.

Maybe the guards shied away after the two earlier travel calls, but I saw Carlton posted deep in the lane several times when a guard should have given him the ball, but instead just took a reckless drive to the hoop. Not only does this get potentially get the other team into foul trouble, it has the possibility of creating a whole new look on offense - the inside out game that has all but disappeared the last several years. But it is something all good teams do - did anyone see Duke - Texas?

 

[HooperScooper]

I don't understand the offense. They have 3 very skilled offensive players in Adams, Gilbert and Larrier and yet their offense looks a mess. There is no continuity or flow. It just looks like a scrambled mess until one of those 3 players does something on their own. Watch the very good teams play. Much better spacing, ball movement, screens and cutting which makes for better quality shots. If those 3 can score out of what they are doing now imagine what they could do when they're getting better looks.

I agree wholeheartedly with the premise that Adams should be the one with the ball in his hands. I understand what Ollie is trying to do playing him off the ball but I don't think Gilbert is ready for the keys to the car. So you either live with the growing pains and hope Gilbert is better running the offense later in the season, which would pay great dividends, or just let Adams take the ball and be better now. Tough call since you don't know how Gilbert is going to develop.

 

[Whtdmd]

Unless u have interior guys that can beat the opposing other guys one to one. Pick and Roll is the most effective offense. We ran great offense sets against Queens college and Carlton had 20. Trying to force feeds it inside will otherwise create more desperate end of the clock shots by the guards. This is the same philosophy all my high school and college coaches share

 

[the Q]

It's unfortunately the only offense Ollie runs. 2014 we had the best player in the country as our point guard and the two best one on one scorers in the whole country with 5 seconds or less on the shot clock, so it worked.

Agreed. I was gonna say. This is the same stuff they ran in 2014.

My biggest concern with Ollie’s “pro style offense” is that without pro level talent it’s not much.

Look at the top NBA teams now anyway. The spurs and warriors play more like the Uconn women than Uconn men’s offense.

 

[mauconnfan]

Agreed. I was gonna say. This is the same stuff they ran in 2014.

My biggest concern with Ollie’s “pro style offense” is that without pro level talent it’s not much.

Look at the top NBA teams now anyway. The spurs and warriors play more like the Uconn women than Uconn men’s offense.

Don’t even start the UConn women thing Q please.

 

[the Q]

Don’t even start the UConn women thing Q please.

I should’ve just gone with the spurs

 

[Mr. French]

The way the game is nowadays, his offense is exactly what is being run effectively all over.

It's obviously on the coach to make sure they run it right, but every time players don't play in the offense correctly, why is it that the offense is bad? I guarantee whatever ball screen / slips / pops offense he's running works VERY well when done right.

If you think he should have a different offense because our players CAN'T run it well, then that's a different argument.

You can't honestly believe he has very little offense and it's designed as all isos with no passing.

Again, finding faults in a coach or the scheme is one thing, but honestly, people think his offense is so basic as to how it's being described ?

 

[UConn990411]

When JC had the talent for it, sure. I think you grossly under estimate his ability to find a successful way to use the pieces he has available.

I keep seeing people making the comparison to Calhoun's offenses, and it baffles me.

Calhoun was far from an offensive mastermind, particularly against a non-Syracuse zone. But he knew how to create an offense built around his best players’ strengths.

The past few years, we’ve seen anemic offensive performances far more consistently than any Calhoun team I can remember (the 2006-07 team may be the lone exception).

 

[Excalibur]

I keep seeing people making the comparison to Calhoun's offenses, and it baffles me.

Calhoun was far from an offensive mastermind, particularly against a non-Syracuse zone. But he knew how to create an offense built around his best players’ strengths.

This. Calhoun’s teams always had a few alternatives to the high ball screen and isolation. The ‘99 team ran Rip and Khalid through baseline screens and down screens constantly. One of their go-to plays was a screen at the elbow for Rip where he had the option to cut to the baseline or flare out to the tree point line.

We won the ‘11 championship game because JC recognized that Butler was defending the high screen and roll very well and switched the offensive sets in the second half.

When Ollie wants to inject motion into the offense it looks like the only option is a basic weave.

 

[tentoes4rings]

This. Calhoun’s teams always had a few alternatives to the high ball screen and isolation. The ‘99 team ran Rip and Khalid through baseline screens and down screens constantly. One of their go-to plays was a screen at the elbow for Rip where he had the option to cut to the baseline or flare out to the tree point line.

We won the ‘11 championship game because JC recognized that Butler was defending the high screen and roll very well and switched the offensive sets in the second half.

When Ollie wants to inject motion into the offense it looks like the only option is a basic weave.

And because Butler shot NINETEEN PERCENT for the game!

 

[Tenspro2002]

I was going to post the same thing. I remember Kemba running clock until last-second drives. Many Yarders were so frustrated watching that. Bazz did it, too.

It was s****y offense under JC and it's still s****y offense under KO.

JC's last good offensive teams were 2009 and earlier.

 

[mauconnfan]

It was s****y offense under JC and it's still s****y offense under KO.

JC's last good offensive teams were 2009 and earlier.

Truth is it was offense for Izzos team too in the first half until they made shots, had a guy who was hotter than hell and got offensive
Rebounds. Basketball is always crappy offense if you can’t make shots.

 

[tzznandrew]

It was s****y offense under JC and it's still s****y offense under KO.

JC's last good offensive teams were 2009 and earlier.

The MO with Calhoun teams was to get them into a halfcourt game for the first part of his run. There were some good half-court offensive teams mixed in there, but we mostly remember those with rose-colored nostalgia glasses.

The defense was almost always excellent, and we always complained about the offense until, suddenly, we didn't.

 

[Doctor Hoop]

The truth is that Ward and Jackson were dominating in the middle, and Onourah, Carlton and the brief appearance by Diarra weren't enough of an offensive threat to make them play honest on D. On drives their bigs came to cut off the opening, and we didn't find or present to be open for the guard. They also played very well to start the second half, and then turned on the jets when under 10 minutes they had controlled their foul problems. Plus Cassius Winston was unconscious. If Larrier hadn't got hot in the second half we'd have lost by 35.

One thing we don't ever do on offense is screen away from the ball. All of our screens are ball screens. Our other offense options include post-ups and isolations. It's pretty vanilla, and each of these require talent and experience to make it work. And yes, it's a lot like what Calhoun would run, although earlier teams had some better imagination (Hamilton, Allen) as @Excalibur noted.. And yes, it works a whole lot better when you have threats outside the arc. Yesterday we had one for ten minutes in the first half (Adams), and one in the second half (Larrier). We're going to need Vital to come around, and if Polley could get some confidence that would really help. The '11 and '14 NC's depended on Walker and Napier playing other-worldly. We don't have that in our arsenal at this time. Our defense wasn't that bad, although we lost track of some shooters in the second half.

That said, MSU is a very complete team, and there's no shame in losing to them early in the season. They have experience and talent, and a very good freshman big in Jackson. If you're expecting us to be that kind of finished product now I don't think that's realistic. If we play well we can beat Arkansas.

 

[ZenConn]

How many set plays can a team have when 2 or more players on the floor are offensive liabilities and the others can't hit an open jumper?

From what I recall from last night, the last three times we fed the post, Carlton traveled twice and Onorah fumbled the ball away.

 

[UConn990411]

It was s****y offense under JC and it's still s****y offense under KO.

JC's last good offensive teams were 2009 and earlier.

I mean, Calhoun retired in 2012, so saying his offenses weren’t good after 2009 isn’t much of an argument.

I’d also argue the 2011 title team had a solid offense, particularly OOC. The national championship will skew people’s memories, but once Lamb got rolling that team could outscore opponents if they needed to.

 

[BringJimBack]

The dribble drive is certainly a good part of our skill set but it can’t be the only offense. We need to be creative off it. Drive n kick or drive and alley oop. It’s too much drive and throw up a prayer.