Does KO teach these guys how to run offense?

[UConn990411]

When JC had the talent for it, sure. I think you grossly under estimate his ability to find a successful way to use the pieces he has available.

I keep seeing people making the comparison to Calhoun's offenses, and it baffles me.

Calhoun was far from an offensive mastermind, particularly against a non-Syracuse zone. But he knew how to create an offense built around his best players’ strengths.

The past few years, we’ve seen anemic offensive performances far more consistently than any Calhoun team I can remember (the 2006-07 team may be the lone exception).

 

[Excalibur]

I keep seeing people making the comparison to Calhoun's offenses, and it baffles me.

Calhoun was far from an offensive mastermind, particularly against a non-Syracuse zone. But he knew how to create an offense built around his best players’ strengths.

This. Calhoun’s teams always had a few alternatives to the high ball screen and isolation. The ‘99 team ran Rip and Khalid through baseline screens and down screens constantly. One of their go-to plays was a screen at the elbow for Rip where he had the option to cut to the baseline or flare out to the tree point line.

We won the ‘11 championship game because JC recognized that Butler was defending the high screen and roll very well and switched the offensive sets in the second half.

When Ollie wants to inject motion into the offense it looks like the only option is a basic weave.

 

[tentoes4rings]

This. Calhoun’s teams always had a few alternatives to the high ball screen and isolation. The ‘99 team ran Rip and Khalid through baseline screens and down screens constantly. One of their go-to plays was a screen at the elbow for Rip where he had the option to cut to the baseline or flare out to the tree point line.

We won the ‘11 championship game because JC recognized that Butler was defending the high screen and roll very well and switched the offensive sets in the second half.

When Ollie wants to inject motion into the offense it looks like the only option is a basic weave.

And because Butler shot NINETEEN PERCENT for the game!

 

[Tenspro2002]

I was going to post the same thing. I remember Kemba running clock until last-second drives. Many Yarders were so frustrated watching that. Bazz did it, too.

It was s****y offense under JC and it's still s****y offense under KO.

JC's last good offensive teams were 2009 and earlier.

 

[mauconnfan]

It was s****y offense under JC and it's still s****y offense under KO.

JC's last good offensive teams were 2009 and earlier.

Truth is it was offense for Izzos team too in the first half until they made shots, had a guy who was hotter than hell and got offensive
Rebounds. Basketball is always crappy offense if you can’t make shots.

 

[tzznandrew]

It was s****y offense under JC and it's still s****y offense under KO.

JC's last good offensive teams were 2009 and earlier.

The MO with Calhoun teams was to get them into a halfcourt game for the first part of his run. There were some good half-court offensive teams mixed in there, but we mostly remember those with rose-colored nostalgia glasses.

The defense was almost always excellent, and we always complained about the offense until, suddenly, we didn't.

 

[Doctor Hoop]

The truth is that Ward and Jackson were dominating in the middle, and Onourah, Carlton and the brief appearance by Diarra weren't enough of an offensive threat to make them play honest on D. On drives their bigs came to cut off the opening, and we didn't find or present to be open for the guard. They also played very well to start the second half, and then turned on the jets when under 10 minutes they had controlled their foul problems. Plus Cassius Winston was unconscious. If Larrier hadn't got hot in the second half we'd have lost by 35.

One thing we don't ever do on offense is screen away from the ball. All of our screens are ball screens. Our other offense options include post-ups and isolations. It's pretty vanilla, and each of these require talent and experience to make it work. And yes, it's a lot like what Calhoun would run, although earlier teams had some better imagination (Hamilton, Allen) as @Excalibur noted.. And yes, it works a whole lot better when you have threats outside the arc. Yesterday we had one for ten minutes in the first half (Adams), and one in the second half (Larrier). We're going to need Vital to come around, and if Polley could get some confidence that would really help. The '11 and '14 NC's depended on Walker and Napier playing other-worldly. We don't have that in our arsenal at this time. Our defense wasn't that bad, although we lost track of some shooters in the second half.

That said, MSU is a very complete team, and there's no shame in losing to them early in the season. They have experience and talent, and a very good freshman big in Jackson. If you're expecting us to be that kind of finished product now I don't think that's realistic. If we play well we can beat Arkansas.

 

[ZenConn]

How many set plays can a team have when 2 or more players on the floor are offensive liabilities and the others can't hit an open jumper?

From what I recall from last night, the last three times we fed the post, Carlton traveled twice and Onorah fumbled the ball away.

 

[UConn990411]

It was s****y offense under JC and it's still s****y offense under KO.

JC's last good offensive teams were 2009 and earlier.

I mean, Calhoun retired in 2012, so saying his offenses weren’t good after 2009 isn’t much of an argument.

I’d also argue the 2011 title team had a solid offense, particularly OOC. The national championship will skew people’s memories, but once Lamb got rolling that team could outscore opponents if they needed to.

 

[BringJimBack]

The dribble drive is certainly a good part of our skill set but it can’t be the only offense. We need to be creative off it. Drive n kick or drive and alley oop. It’s too much drive and throw up a prayer.

 

[intlzncster]

I was bored one day and tallied our scoring during the 2014 NCAAT. Nearly 20% of our offense was Shabazz hero-ball, either on pull-up shots or 1-on-1 drives to the rim.

Is that out of the ordinary for a shot maker/creator? That was his role. Compare that to Kobe or Jordan or somebody. I've no idea it's in line or not, but 1/5 of the offense doesn't necessarily seem out of wack for that type of player.

 

[intlzncster]

I agree wholeheartedly with the premise that Adams should be the one with the ball in his hands. I understand what Ollie is trying to do playing him off the ball but I don't think Gilbert is ready for the keys to the car. So you either live with the growing pains and hope Gilbert is better running the offense later in the season, which would pay great dividends, or just let Adams take the ball and be better now. Tough call since you don't know how Gilbert is going to develop.

In your scenario, it seems like it's an easy call. The idea is to get wins. So if Adams taking the ball translates to more wins now, especially given the unbalanced schedule, you do that. It's not like getting wins now will translate to less wins later.

And it's not like Gilbert won't develop without running the show either.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

This. If we focus on 2017-2018, this really does seem like our best way to win against tougher opponents.

And make free throws steadily throughout the game.

 

[sledog]

Even the ESPN sportscasters the last 2 nites commented that UConn plays are designed for the athletic - ie, min set plays - but UC needs set plays to be effective.

After 3-4 years, if plan A hassn't worked, ...

A few fundamental drills, like FTs, etc, wouldn't hurt either. Didn't the last NC team have intensive FT drills, eg, as I recall?

 

[Storrs South]

I posted this on Twitter, but to run a good offense with 3 great players in Adams, Larrier, and Gilbert shouldn't be rocket science. Take a look at this play they ran in the second half. Adams runs the baseline through two screens by the big men, catch ball at the elbow drives baseline and draw additional defenders. Kicks out to Gilbert who makes the extra pass to Larrier who have one defender to guard the two of them.

They could legit run something of this variety every time down the court: a guard (Adams/Gilbert/Anderson) drives into the paint either is free enough for the floater, layup, or if they draw additional defenders kick out to open guys on the perimeter (Vital/Larrier/Polley). Mix it in with the occasional post up by Larrier in the midrange game or Carlton in the post and that's a competent offense where you can go iso every 9th or 10th time down the court. Adams and Gilbert have no problem beating their guys but are trying to finish through two and three guys; the extra pass would alleviate this problem.

 

[husky8273]

We must have a bunch of rookies here because people always complained about JC's offensive philosophy.

particularly against a zone

 

[mauconnfan]

Even the ESPN sportscasters the last 2 nites commented that UConn plays are designed for the athletic - ie, min set plays - but UC needs set plays to be effective.

After 3-4 years, if plan A hassn't worked, ...

A few fundamental drills, like FTs, etc, wouldn't hurt either. Didn't the last NC team have intensive FT drills, eg, as I recall?

Yeah they're not shooting FT's right. What's wrong with KO and the staff not shooting FT's? And fundamentals, yeah what the heck are they thinking? Let's go there again too.

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

Why does KO bother starting Polley? I’d love to see that kid get involved on offense more.

 

[Pudge]

I haven't watched enough.

But from a few games, I think Carlton is a key. And I'm not surprised that the kid traveled twice in a row ... defended by MSUs four great bigs ... at all. But that kid does have an idea of options and can get to the hoop and knows how to kick. It's his 4th game. His presence pulls the spacing to make it more open for our three. (Plus Vital & Anderson).

It's too early to gauge Polley. We can watch Giffey in his early days at the Maui ... he developed. I believe Polley has that potential. But you're gonna have to wait. His role becomes more developed; as we saw.

I think the answer for both JC & KO: they crafted offense as kids developed. And offensive principals were hackneyed if that point in time didn't allow the full scheme. You have far more longer term utility - with 20/20 hindsight -with a Carlton/Cobb interior than Brimah/Nolan.

 

[mauconnfan]

By the way the first one was a travel, no doubter. The 2nd one on Carlton was not a travel rewound it and watched it in slow was a nice move actually the striped guy was looking for something and he was wrong.

And Polley is a lot more talented that Giffey as a freshman and he oozes potential but can he be the same or better impact for the program? Seems like Polley has a real nice idea of the game itself so I expect him to be very good eventually. Add his length and athleticism I can only hope it kicks in this season.

 

[JustbrewitMan]

I'd just be ecstatic if we could limit the number of 17-19 ft jumpers that we take each game to <2. Horrible shot for a variety of reasons and I stopped counting them in the MSU game after we had taken at least 5.

 

[NielsisGood]

The MO with Calhoun teams was to get them into a halfcourt game for the first part of his run. There were some good half-court offensive teams mixed in there, but we mostly remember those with rose-colored nostalgia glasses.

The defense was almost always excellent, and we always complained about the offense until, suddenly, we didn't.

Can't agree more with this. The difference was effort level. Calhoun's best teams really took on his personality and were really just meaner, tougher, harder than anyone else.



Also I've been noticing lately that Jalen takes for ever to make a decision once he has the ball in his hands. Not sure if that's because there's hardly any off ball movement (and is that by design) or because Jalen himself has to take that time to read what's in front of him. Not sure what the fix is honestly, lack of passing, lack of off ball movement, holding the ball too long, lack of any effort or gameplan to make the other team have to work defensively on possessions. It's really disappointing to see when Rique and Jalen are both on the floor.

 

[mauconnfan]

Can't agree more with this. The difference was effort level. Calhoun's best teams really took on his personality and were really just meaner, tougher, harder than anyone else.



Also I've been noticing lately that Jalen takes for ever to make a decision once he has the ball in his hands. Not sure if that's because there's hardly any off ball movement (and is that by design) or because Jalen himself has to take that time to read what's in front of him. Not sure what the fix is honestly, lack of passing, lack of off ball movement, holding the ball too long, lack of any effort or gameplan to make the other team have to work defensively on possessions. It's really disappointing to see when Rique and Jalen are both on the floor.

It's not that they're on the floor at the same time it's about what you are alluding to. I mean pass the ball and move - you watch other teams who are lesser known and the passing is fast paced, hard and people are always moving there's no doubt, we have stoppages due to our go-to's needing to dribble until the find a gap. It is very tough to watch at times no doubt.

 

[tzznandrew]

It's not that they're on the floor at the same time it's about what you are alluding to. I mean pass the ball and move - you watch other teams who are lesser known and the passing is fast paced, hard and people are always moving there's no doubt, we have stoppages due to our go-to's needing to dribble until the find a gap. It is very tough to watch at times no doubt.

A lot of modern NBA offenses are predicated on keeping spacing by minimizing off the ball movement (players in corners) until a pick and roll or something else (dribble hand off, guard taking opponent off the dribble, etc.) sets them in motion. Sometimes, they don't move: they're there so their defender can't cheat.

We've seen our guys run it; the play against Oregon where Gilbert found the cutting Anderson was exactly that sort of play.

Our problems seem to me to have a few levels:

1. the offense needs the offensive players to be able to break down the defender or shoot well to keep them honest. Adams and Gilbert can get into the lane at will, it seems, but their lack of shooting hurts because the defenders can sag a bit, meaning there isn't as much space when they get past their first defender; Larrier can't comfortably blow past his defender and finish;

2. the shooters in the corners need to keep the defenders honest; ours so far haven't;

3. as Niels said, the guards have to make quick decisions and don't seem to: they need to be blowing past their defenders around the 20 second mark if possible, because that creates the necessary chaos for multiple passes. Why do we wait so long? Perhaps because of 1-2. Perhaps because KO wants to slow the game down possession-wise (the only team that had the horses to really play this way--you need a rebounder to minimize the other team getting second chances and a big who can pop or roll after setting the screen--was the 2016 team, but Gibbs couldn't get separation, DHam couldn't shoot, Adams wasn't ready, and Purvis couldn't finish; 14 didn't have the rebounding or depth and so we slowed games down). Perhaps because Adams/Gilbert/Larrier aren't making decisive enough moves. Or perhaps because there are too many other new guys (including Larrier/Gilbert) that when the initial penetration or pick-and-roll happens they don't make their move on time, messing up the timing. Who knows.​

 

[Marty Jackson]

There is some delusion, exacerbation, and frustration in this thread.
Been watching since early 80s.
Been posting for 8 or more years [EDIT - just thought about it - easily over 10, and maybe 12 - wow, time goes by].
If we could go back and pull up threads from the "prior" site, you would see massive b----ing and moaning that JC didn't run any offense. No s----t. Old timers like me jump in and vouch for this. People complained incessantly that JC didn't run any offense.

The problem tonight was not our guys - they played fine.
It was that we ran into one of the best 4 teams in the country.

THAT SIMPLE.

Stop using the loss as an excuse to dump on our coach and players. Be a fan. Recognize that our goal this year does not include knocking off the 4th highest ranked team in the country in the 4th game these guys have played together.

LIGHTEN UP FRANCIS.

Sometimes it just takes someone to walk us off the ledge. Definitely hung with them for a while.