RockyMTblue2
Don't Look Up!
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 21,967
- Reaction Score
- 96,512
Development of incoming freshman
- Thread starter Pmac923
- Start date
victor64
retired Ohio teacher
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2016
- Messages
- 889
- Reaction Score
- 7,643
Something tells me that the OP is an unhappy parent or relative of one of the freshmen. I also don't think that the original poster realizes that on this board, that Geno, because of his history gets the benefit of the doubt in all personnel decisions. One more thing, there is tons of media access available that clearly provides Geno's philosophy on the topic of playing time. It has remained unchanged for almost his entire tenure.
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2017
- Messages
- 2,116
- Reaction Score
- 11,640
Geno has said time and again... If he "rewards" players who do not perform to the level expected in practice, with Playing Time in Games, then they become "un-coachable"... or words to that effect.... Let him do his job.
I saw the same thing when coaching youth baseball... Some players think they are "all it"... and don't come to practice for something other than a "valid reason" (illness, family obligation/emergency, etc) and others come out to every practice and work hard to improve their game. The "All It" players think they are going to start regardless of their presence at practice. When they sit to start the next game, they normally get the message. Just sharing personal experience.
I saw the same thing when coaching youth baseball... Some players think they are "all it"... and don't come to practice for something other than a "valid reason" (illness, family obligation/emergency, etc) and others come out to every practice and work hard to improve their game. The "All It" players think they are going to start regardless of their presence at practice. When they sit to start the next game, they normally get the message. Just sharing personal experience.
Last edited:
Sifaka
O sol nascerá amanhã.
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2017
- Messages
- 975
- Reaction Score
- 8,543
"The fans came to see the teamwork, camraderie, and effortless flow."
"But let them play basketball and show their natural skillsets over National TV. "
- - - - - - - -
The natural skillsets of freshmen do not typically include teamwork and effortless flow, much less defense.
The desire of most freshmen (and even their frinds and family?) to be seen on National (sic) TV is not in dispute.
"But let them play basketball and show their natural skillsets over National TV. "
- - - - - - - -
The natural skillsets of freshmen do not typically include teamwork and effortless flow, much less defense.
The desire of most freshmen (and even their frinds and family?) to be seen on National (sic) TV is not in dispute.
I respect Geno's decisions. As a supervisor myself, nothing is more frustrating than providing the same feedback to an employee and then they turn around in the next meeting and completely ignore my feedback. It's about following directions. They need to follow directions or suffer the consequences. They need to be held accountable and he is doing that. In this current culture, he may be the first person who has ever held them accountable.
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2013
- Messages
- 11,827
- Reaction Score
- 17,832
Certainly Geno's rules translate well to the real world once you're out of the college bubble.
JordyG
Stake in my pocket, Vlad to see you
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2016
- Messages
- 13,103
- Reaction Score
- 54,870
Non and sense. Geno's record and how he trains freshmen speak for themselves. You however seem to be speaking for yourself and your daughter.
DefenseBB
Snark is always appreciated!
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2016
- Messages
- 7,910
- Reaction Score
- 28,721
Nothing that was said was inflammatory or egregious, it was one persons opinion, which is what a forum is for. I do not subscribe to the view expressed and neither will the majority of others on here, BUT I will defend his/her right to say it and offer my/our counterpoints.End the thread Nan, your response is all that needs to be posted in response to the original post!
We still live in good ole U S of A....
Carnac
That venerable sage from the west
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2015
- Messages
- 15,932
- Reaction Score
- 78,988
Every year Geno is called out by fans here and there that think he's too hard on their favorite freshmen.
This year being no exception. A commenter recently posted a quote by Geno (I wish I could find it, I would copy & paste it) saying that most UConn fans don't know what they're talking about (he's also said that to Justine Ward on his TV show on SNY). This was in reference to some of the letters and e-mails he's received lately.
(I'm paraphrasing here) He said that It's hard for freshmen to come to UConn and pick up things right away. His system is very difficult to learn. He said it takes the average freshman a year to master his entire system. He said this group of freshmen can't do the things he wants them to do in practice for 3 days in a row, yet the fans want him to put them in a game anyway, and expect them to do all of the things correctly and successfully that they can't do in practice, like so many other coaches do.
Since the fans don't see what he sees everyday in practice, or know what he and the other coaches know, those fans make suggestions that he probably considers "uninformed and unrealistic". Geno does not do things THAT way.
Geno is considered by many college coaches and media types, the best and most successful coach in women's college basketball history. Why is this? Could it be because he does things differently than other coaches do....................like demanding things (standards) from his players that other coaches don't?
Like making every player earn their minutes instead of just giving it to them? Like demanding that all players be able to play defense to his satisfaction, instead of just going through the motions? Insisting that all of his players have a certain attitude and demeanor while at practice and during games? Like holding ALL of his players accountable? If Geno is the best coach in the game today, and his team rarely loses, what is he doing that the other coaches aren't?
A lot of things! Starting with not letting freshmen play until they reach the level of play (consistently) as the rest of the team. They have to be able to play UConn basketball, which is much different that regular Division 1 WCBB. It's why they seldom lose. They have to prove their proficiency in practice. Until they do, Geno can't/won't trust them enough to put them on the floor during meaningful minutes.
He has said many times, he's not going to put a player on the floor and allow her to embarrass herself, because she couldn't play well. The following is an excerpt from an article written after the Stanford loss in 2014: "Nurse played 20 minutes before she fouled out. Gabby Williams never even got a chance to step onto the court that day and on multiple occasions, Williams admitted she wasn't ready to play in a game of that magnitude".
If you want to play (and of course every player does), first you have to gain Geno's trust. You gain his trust in practice, not during games. You prove you can play with the other players in practice, not in actual games. At UConn, playing in games is your reward for learning the things you must learn to play for Geno. There are no exceptions. Geno has also said that most of the highly touted and highly rated blue chip players in high school can't play defense, so they must be taught. It's a lesson not learned overnight. It took Dangerfield a year to learn how to keep her man in front of her. If you've noticed, her defense is much better now than it was last year.
That's one of the differences (there are others) in Auriemma than other coaches. Just ask any D-1 coach or "long time" college basketball analysts, they'll explain it to you. Why does he get requests everyday from high school and college coaches requesting to come to campus and view his practices? Some of these coaches request they be allowed to bring their entire team. Because he's doing something no one else is doing. He taking the road less traveled, and he's very successful with it. When you figure that out, then perhaps you'll understand. His way works.
This year being no exception. A commenter recently posted a quote by Geno (I wish I could find it, I would copy & paste it) saying that most UConn fans don't know what they're talking about (he's also said that to Justine Ward on his TV show on SNY). This was in reference to some of the letters and e-mails he's received lately.
(I'm paraphrasing here) He said that It's hard for freshmen to come to UConn and pick up things right away. His system is very difficult to learn. He said it takes the average freshman a year to master his entire system. He said this group of freshmen can't do the things he wants them to do in practice for 3 days in a row, yet the fans want him to put them in a game anyway, and expect them to do all of the things correctly and successfully that they can't do in practice, like so many other coaches do.
Since the fans don't see what he sees everyday in practice, or know what he and the other coaches know, those fans make suggestions that he probably considers "uninformed and unrealistic". Geno does not do things THAT way.
Geno is considered by many college coaches and media types, the best and most successful coach in women's college basketball history. Why is this? Could it be because he does things differently than other coaches do....................like demanding things (standards) from his players that other coaches don't?
Like making every player earn their minutes instead of just giving it to them? Like demanding that all players be able to play defense to his satisfaction, instead of just going through the motions? Insisting that all of his players have a certain attitude and demeanor while at practice and during games? Like holding ALL of his players accountable? If Geno is the best coach in the game today, and his team rarely loses, what is he doing that the other coaches aren't?
A lot of things! Starting with not letting freshmen play until they reach the level of play (consistently) as the rest of the team. They have to be able to play UConn basketball, which is much different that regular Division 1 WCBB. It's why they seldom lose. They have to prove their proficiency in practice. Until they do, Geno can't/won't trust them enough to put them on the floor during meaningful minutes.
He has said many times, he's not going to put a player on the floor and allow her to embarrass herself, because she couldn't play well. The following is an excerpt from an article written after the Stanford loss in 2014: "Nurse played 20 minutes before she fouled out. Gabby Williams never even got a chance to step onto the court that day and on multiple occasions, Williams admitted she wasn't ready to play in a game of that magnitude".
If you want to play (and of course every player does), first you have to gain Geno's trust. You gain his trust in practice, not during games. You prove you can play with the other players in practice, not in actual games. At UConn, playing in games is your reward for learning the things you must learn to play for Geno. There are no exceptions. Geno has also said that most of the highly touted and highly rated blue chip players in high school can't play defense, so they must be taught. It's a lesson not learned overnight. It took Dangerfield a year to learn how to keep her man in front of her. If you've noticed, her defense is much better now than it was last year.
That's one of the differences (there are others) in Auriemma than other coaches. Just ask any D-1 coach or "long time" college basketball analysts, they'll explain it to you. Why does he get requests everyday from high school and college coaches requesting to come to campus and view his practices? Some of these coaches request they be allowed to bring their entire team. Because he's doing something no one else is doing. He taking the road less traveled, and he's very successful with it. When you figure that out, then perhaps you'll understand. His way works.
Last edited by a moderator:
cohenzone
Old Member
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 18,778
- Reaction Score
- 21,541
Relaxed frosh playing against UConn? I want those types on my team.
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2017
- Messages
- 241
- Reaction Score
- 1,992
It’s hard to tell from your post whether you are truly serious, or if you are trolling. In any case you are entitled to your opinion, but your post is also the reason that people in the coaching business only truly care about the opinions of two groups: their players and their peers. These two groups are the only ones who actually know the quality of your work. The truest gauge of Geno’s methods are his ex players, who owe him nothing, and he no longer controls anything in their lives. The vast majority of this group speak highly of their experiences in the program.
You speak of the long term health of the program- the present staff started from scratch in 1985. Just how long term are you speaking of? I would contend that a 33 year case study should suffice, and that if their methods threaten the well being of the program that would have been apparent by now.
Your suggestions imply that as a coach you should give playing time, not earn it. If you ever want to lose the respect of your players who are truly committed just try that method and see how you get along. Just make yourself a list of successful coaches who “give” playing time and get back to us. Respectfully, maybe go down to your local mortuary tomorrow & inform them they are not embalming correctly, and you’d be glad to straighten them out. You are doing the same thing here, evidently you just don’t realize it.
Charliebball
**
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2016
- Messages
- 12,771
- Reaction Score
- 45,438
so what exactly happens when their time runs out?
JordyG
Stake in my pocket, Vlad to see you
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2016
- Messages
- 13,103
- Reaction Score
- 54,870
+100. Defend to the death his or her right.
JordyG
Stake in my pocket, Vlad to see you
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2016
- Messages
- 13,103
- Reaction Score
- 54,870
Preach Scoop! +1000.Every year Geno is called out by fans here and there that think he's too hard on their favorite freshman player(s). This year being no exception. A commenter recently posted a quote by Geno (I wish I could find it, I would copy & paste it) saying that most UConn fans don't know what they're talking about (he's also said that to Justine Ward on his TV show on SNY). This was in reference to some of the letters and e-mails he's received lately.
(I'm paraphrasing here) He said that It's hard for freshmen to come to UConn and pick up things right away. His system is very difficult to learn. He said it takes the average freshman a year to master his entire system. He said this group of freshmen can't do the things he wants them to do in practice for 3 days in a row, yet the fans want him to put them in a game anyway, and expect them to do all of the things correctly and successfully that they can't do in practice, like so many other coaches do.
Since the fans don't see what he sees everyday in practice, or know what he and the other coaches know, those fans make suggestions that he probably considers "uninformed and unrealistic". Geno does not do things THAT way.
Geno is considered by many college coaches and media types, the best and most successful coach in women's college basketball history. Why is this? Could it be because he does things differently than other coaches do.....like demanding things (standards) from his players that other coaches don't?
Like making every player earn their minutes instead of just giving it to them? Like demanding that all players be able to play defense to his satisfaction, instead of just going through the motions? Insisting that all of his players have a certain attitude and demeanor while at practice and during games? Like holding ALL of his players accountable? If Geno is the best coach in the game today, and his team rarely loses, what is he doing that the other coaches aren't?
A lot of things! Starting with not letting freshmen play until they reach the level of play as the rest of the team. They have to be able to play UConn basketball. Which is much different that regular Division 1 WCBB. They have to it prove in practice. Until they do, Geno won't trust them to put them on the floor during meaning minutes.
He has said many times, he's not going to put a player on the floor and allow her to embarrass herself, because she couldn't play well. The following is an excerpt from an article written after the Stanford loss in 2014 "Nurse played 20 minutes before she fouled out. Gabby Williams never even got a chance to step onto the court that day and on multiple occasions, Williams admitted she wasn't ready to play in a game of that magnitude".
If you want to play (and of course every player does), first you have to gain Geno's trust. You gain his trust in practice, not during games. You prove you can play with the other players in practice, not in actual games. That's one of the differences (there are others) in Auriemma and other coaches. Just ask any D-1 coach or "long time" college basketball analyst, they'll explain it to you. Why does he get requests everyday from high school and college coaches requesting to come to campus and view his practices? Some of these coaches request they be allowed to bring their entire team. When you figure that out, then perhaps you'll understand.
JoePgh
Cranky pants and wise acre
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2011
- Messages
- 3,640
- Reaction Score
- 21,180
Has Geno EVER lost a freshman or sophomore to transfer because she didn't like his decisions about playing time?
I certainly acknowledge that there are players who transferred because they recognized that they would never get the playing time that they hoped for (because other UConn players were better): Courtney Ekmark, Lauren Engeln, and Michala Johnson for example. But those players all transferred after their sophomore year, after they gave it everything they had and were forced to acknowledge that other players on the team were better (or at least the coaching staff considered them better) and would continue to get more playing time than they would.
But if there has ever been a freshman or sophomore who transferred because Geno didn't give her enough minutes because she didn't meet his expectations in practice or in the few game minutes that she got, I am not aware of it. From what little information we have, neither Sadie Edwards nor AEH fit into that category.
And there have certainly been those who got the "pine treatment" as freshmen, and who later got their act together to make major contributions: Gabby Williams and Mel Thomas, for example.
I assume the OP has seen Geno's comments on this specific subject: "If they learn as freshmen that they will get minutes even if they ignore instructions, then there is no coaching them when they get to be juniors and seniors." Quite a bit of truth in that, I suspect.
I certainly acknowledge that there are players who transferred because they recognized that they would never get the playing time that they hoped for (because other UConn players were better): Courtney Ekmark, Lauren Engeln, and Michala Johnson for example. But those players all transferred after their sophomore year, after they gave it everything they had and were forced to acknowledge that other players on the team were better (or at least the coaching staff considered them better) and would continue to get more playing time than they would.
But if there has ever been a freshman or sophomore who transferred because Geno didn't give her enough minutes because she didn't meet his expectations in practice or in the few game minutes that she got, I am not aware of it. From what little information we have, neither Sadie Edwards nor AEH fit into that category.
And there have certainly been those who got the "pine treatment" as freshmen, and who later got their act together to make major contributions: Gabby Williams and Mel Thomas, for example.
I assume the OP has seen Geno's comments on this specific subject: "If they learn as freshmen that they will get minutes even if they ignore instructions, then there is no coaching them when they get to be juniors and seniors." Quite a bit of truth in that, I suspect.
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2016
- Messages
- 38
- Reaction Score
- 334
Actually I think you do learn more from practicing (or preparing) than playing. If you practice (prepare) everyday for a week, that comes to about 14 hours of time on the court. If you just play the two to three scheduled games, you would be lucky to have 3 - 4 hours. Geno is correct, practice (prepare) more and play less = better team skills, better fundamentals, better understanding of the game, etc. Just playing 5 on 5 tends to develop more individual skills.
At no point did I ever try to discredit his success or tactics. He is the best motivator and teacher But I do have the right to question how he has chosen to handle his recruits within the last few years. The freshman will be your starters in 2 years and have no substantial run.
EricLA
Cronus
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2011
- Messages
- 14,985
- Reaction Score
- 81,486
The season ends... That's all I meant! That time is running out to have any impact this season...
Centerstream
Looking forward to next season
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2017
- Messages
- 8,238
- Reaction Score
- 31,674
Good point. I was trying to be sarcastic but realize that sarcasm usually isn't picked up on.
My sarcasm is partly based upon my impression that the general opinions expressed in the OP have been expressed daily/weekly for most of the season. And I agree that everyone has the right to post their opinion however and whenever they want and if I don't like or agree with the threads, then I can ignore them.
Bottom line, I guess I could have suggested that the thread be merged with one of the previous threads or I could have just not posted anything...
Last edited:
Charliebball
**
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2016
- Messages
- 12,771
- Reaction Score
- 45,438
the reason some are more concerned then usual about Geno's not playing the freshmen has a lot more to do with the fact that he is running the starters into the ground and other then Crystal, his sophomores are not capable of playing to a high level against strong competition.........it's quite obvious that Geno can develop players as well as any one in WBB and that development sometimes takes a year or two or even three in some cases but in the meantime the starters may not be at near their best when the real season begins............that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.........
Orangutan
South Bend Simian
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2014
- Messages
- 5,868
- Reaction Score
- 26,702
MSGRET
MSG, US Army Retired
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2017
- Messages
- 6,392
- Reaction Score
- 35,547
I meant that they don't have the pressure on them like freshman do at UConn.
DefenseBB
Snark is always appreciated!
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2016
- Messages
- 7,910
- Reaction Score
- 28,721
That was an AWESOME post!
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2011
- Messages
- 2,361
- Reaction Score
- 6,085
Yes, his approach with freshmen has really been disastrous over the decades. If he had only had you to advise him, UConn likely would have won 20+ national championships, instead of only 11.