Depaul Tops ND 105 to 94 | Page 3 | The Boneyard

Depaul Tops ND 105 to 94

She looked like she was about to cry, or had already done so.

Last night was not Muffet's best coaching job.
Delusional or selective memory “we have been in every game, could have won every game”. Against UCONN the game was done in the first quarter. It was just a matter of when to pull back. I think Geno actually exhibited some sympathy in the second half.
 
I'm just going to keep saying my catchphrase for this ND season - "It turns out losing your nine best players is bad"

Still playing a schedule befitting a top 5 team hasn't helped.

I saw a tweet from Oregon touting their upcoming games against Loyola Marymount and Long Beach State. Must be nice.

This group will improve over the course of the year and getting Vaughn (and maybe Prohaska?) back will help a great deal. I just hope Muffet doesn't lose the locker room first.

Niele Ivey's ray of sunshine disposition would be a big help right about now.
Well, take heart. Notre Dame's next game is against Guelph :)

But seriously: ND is currently #45 in the Massey ratings, which by mid-December have enough data to claim some measure of validity, and ND is shown as favored in 14 out of the 18 ACC regular season games. That's not even reflecting the boost they'll get from Vaughn and how much they figure to improve as a young team.

1576243628815.png


It's very reasonable to think ND will go 13-5 or better in the ACC regular season plus 1 or 2 wins in the ACC tournament. That would make them at least 19-13 on the season, which with their schedule should enough for an at-large bid.
 
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Many of us have wondered why Patterson and Nixon, 2 players who were clearly penciled in to ND’s starting lineup this season, would transfer after last season. While Jackie Young turned pro, she could have stayed to complete her senior year. Perhaps the answer to both these mysteries can be seen in MM’s postgame presser. In all honesty the level of frustration and anger she displayed towards her team was shocking.

I have noticed with some admiration that ND fans like Dillon, Orangutan and many others on McGraw’s Bench are demonstrating a commendable level of patience and understanding as this ND teams goes through a rough patch. I don’t understand why MM doesn’t demonstrate a similar level of patience with a team that clearly doesn’t have the horses to compete at a high level this year. If she runs off one or two key players, in addition to those who have already left, it will make the job that much harder next season.

Oldude: Thanks for voicing your observation.
I'll try to summarize the way a lot of ND fans (primarily located on the Bench) are taking this:
- The team (the players and most coaches) are giving it everything they have. For a whole variety of reasons (more on that later), there's just not enough horses (to stay with your metaphor) at this moment. They're pretty darn good horses, but unlike the run in 2017-18, they're either young, coming back from year(s) off and not used to one another. It shows. They'll frequently fall behind while figuring out what they're up against, then charge back only to run out of gas.
- Still, save for the UConn game, they're hanging in there, making it competitive and showing improvement. Maybe not to the taste of MM, but I think it's pretty admirable for first-year players or those who have been on sidelines for years (Destinee Walker).
- Once again, the current players have nothing to do with the shortened roster: that's MM's baliwick and responsibility. There have been massive threads dedicated to recruiting and retention and that some personnel issues need to be addressed in either insuring the right person is recruited and then nurtured and retained. It's simply not a matter of playing time (all the time). Many think that's one reason why younger (Michaela Mabrey) and/or accomplished (Kayla McBride) are joining the staff.
- That said, the sideline behavior and press conference were completey unacceptable. MM, candidly, can be caustic in the best of circumstances, but that was a low point. Sam Brunelle has her career high by 12 points and her reaction: "she should've had 40." Thank Touchdown Jesus that Sam wasn't in the room (but she'll see it soon enough). The most mature ND adults in the presser were Anaya Peoples and Sam Brunelle. They deserve better.
- I'm hoping good friend Carol Owens has a chat with her or husband and advisor Matt does the same. If not, AD Jack Swarbrick needs to pop up at a few games.
- Not giving a mulligan here, but hoping the finals/Xmas break gives coaches and players a chance to recharge and start anew. Of course, if Mik Vaughn's ankle could get better, that would help a bunch, too.

Keep the faith, Irish.
 
So that's what a game is like with 2 good announcers. Great communication of all issues and several petinent sidebars. Does anyone know who called the game.
I believe that was CPTV's Bob Picozzi and Meghan Culmo. "Some" people on the BY used to complain about them quite extensively.
 
Well, take heart. Notre Dame's next game is against Guelph :)

But seriously: ND is currently #45 in the Massey ratings, which by mid-December have enough data to claim some measure of validity, and ND is shown as favored in 14 out of the 18 ACC regular season games. That's not even reflecting the boost they'll get from Vaughn and how much they figure to improve as a young team.

View attachment 49106

It's very reasonable to think ND will go 13-5 or better in the ACC regular season plus 1 or 2 wins in the ACC tournament. That would make them at least 19-15 on the season, which with their schedule should enough for an at-large bid.

That's pretty much what we're hanging our hats on, Plebe. If Vaughn can return (knock on wood), she'd address so many of the current issues (can you say rebounding, defensive presence). And, miracle of miracles, if Prohaska's lung issues clear up, that would a present: her defensive intensity and grit is apparent by it's absence. That flaming redhead can close out a shooter awfully well. (Still, health is #1: get better, Abby!)
 
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Oldude: Thanks for voicing your observation.
I'll try to summarize the way a lot of ND fans (primarily located on the Bench) are taking this:
- The team (the players and most coaches) are giving it everything they have. For a whole variety of reasons (more on that later), there's just not enough horses (to stay with your metaphor) at this moment. They're pretty darn good horses, but unlike the run in 2017-18, they're either young, coming back from year(s) off and not used to one another. It shows. They'll frequently fall behind while figuring out what they're up against, then charge back only to run out of gas.
- Still, save for the UConn game, they're hanging in there, making it competitive and showing improvement. Maybe not to the taste of MM, but I think it's pretty admirable for first-year players or those who have been on sidelines for years (Destinee Walker).
- Once again, the current players have nothing to do with the shortened roster: that's MM's baliwick and responsibility. There have been massive threads dedicated to recruiting and retention and that some personnel issues need to be addressed in either insuring the right person is recruited and then nurtured and retained. It's simply not a matter of playing time (all the time). Many think that's one reason why younger (Michaela Mabrey) and/or accomplished (Kayla McBride) are joining the staff.
- That said, the sideline behavior and press conference were completey unacceptable. MM, candidly, can be caustic in the best of circumstances, but that was a low point. Sam Brunelle has her career high by 12 points and her reaction: "she should've had 40." Thank Touchdown Jesus that Sam wasn't in the room (but she'll see it soon enough). The most mature ND adults in the presser were Anaya Peoples and Sam Brunelle. They deserve better.
- I'm hoping good friend Carol Owens has a chat with her or husband and advisor Matt does the same. If not, AD Jack Swarbrick needs to pop up at a few games.
- Not giving a mulligan here, but hoping the finals/Xmas break gives coaches and players a chance to recharge and start anew. Of course, if Mik Vaughn's ankle could get better, that would help a bunch, too.

Keep the faith, Irish.

Kayla McBride joining the staff? I did not hear that one?
 
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- That said, the sideline behavior and press conference were completey unacceptable. MM, candidly, can be caustic in the best of circumstances, but that was a low point. Sam Brunelle has her career high by 12 points and her reaction: "she should've had 40." Thank Touchdown Jesus that Sam wasn't in the room (but she'll see it soon enough). The most mature ND adults in the presser were Anaya Peoples and Sam Brunelle. They deserve better.


Ok, I don't usually defend Muffett, however she did not say that. She was talking about running a hi/lo for Brunelle and then it was mentioned Brunell had 31, she said if they had someone who could pass, she would have had 40. It wasn't a dis on Brunelle. Actually a compliment to Brunelle. Granted a dis on some other players, but not Brunelle.
 
Objectively, I don't think MM was significantly harsher than most coaches on her players. The ND system like UConn requires more than physical skills and when some of the players don't get it, it can look really bad and she takes pride that ND should put out a good looking product. For me, the biggest issue with MM in contrast to Geno is that she really does not have a sense of humor, sarcasm or irony.

I can speak to this because I've met her on numerous occasions. In person, she can be engaging and has a bit of a South Philly/New Jersey caustic sense of humor. Being a Long Islander, I can relate to the give and take. However, she is very straight forward in her approach and this can take people off guard or fall flat. The irony is not part of the arsenal.

My issue with the presser (see another post) is that this is pretty much the third straight game where she's pounding on lessons taught not being employed. Well, as the husband of a teacher and being a guy who coached AAU soccer for a decade, go back to the drawing board: Compare notes with other coaches, teachers, confidentes. Brunelle, Gilbert and Peoples (a special young person) are keepers. Make their growth a priority.
 
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Kayla McBride joining the staff? I did not hear that one?

She's got one of those funky staff titles: director of player personnel/development. When you look at the sideline, look for Michaela Mabrey and you'll see her with her hair pulled back wearing stylish glasses.

It may not be for the full year (she's got to start getting ready for the WNBA), but K-Mac is apparently dipping her foot in the water seeing if this may be a post-playing career option. She and Natalie Achonwa are known as two of the hardest-working players in MM's arsenal. In fact, Ace has said she wants to coach. (No prisoners would be taken with Ace!)_
 
She's got one of those funky staff titles: director of player personnel/development. When you look at the sideline, look for Michaela Mabrey and you'll see her with her hair pulled back wearing stylish glasses.

It may not be for the full year (she's got to start getting ready for the WNBA), but K-Mac is apparently dipping her foot in the water seeing if this may be a post-playing career option. She and Natalie Achonwa are known as two of the hardest-working players in MM's arsenal. In fact, Ace has said she wants to coach. (No prisoners would be taken with Ace!)_


I am a big McBride fan. Super tough kid who went all out and cared about winning more than anything. Wears her emotions on her sleeve.
 
It can be extremely difficult for a coach to change, particularly one who’s been at it for 30-40 years and has experienced enormous success. Two seasons ago, Geno went through a transformation after a particularly difficult situation with 4 freshmen players, 3 of whom are no longer with UConn. To anyone who has observed Geno since, clearly he has changed the way he deals with his players. He may still chide them in public, but it’s more of a gentle nudge than a harsh rebuke. When Megan came out of the ND game in the 4th qtr, Geno uncharacteristically hugged her. Such displays of affection used to be confined to seniors playing their last game.

This idea might be anathema to MM, but perhaps she can learn something from the stubborn old curmudgeon in Storrs. If Geno can change his approach, maybe MM can change her approach as well.
 
Well, take heart. Notre Dame's next game is against Guelph :)

But seriously: ND is currently #45 in the Massey ratings, which by mid-December have enough data to claim some measure of validity, and ND is shown as favored in 14 out of the 18 ACC regular season games.

Ah yes, the inexplicable midseason exhibition vs. Guelph.

But yes we are in agreement and I made the same point on the Bench to someone who wrote about ND struggling and not having even reached conference play yet. Conference play is where it figures to get easier!

I honestly don't care about making the NCAA tournament. I feel like Jim Mora in his famous rant

"Playoffs!? I just hope we can win a game!"
 
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Kayla McBride joining the staff? I did not hear that one?
At the start of the UConn-ND game broadcast, when they show Geno greeting the ND coaches, you can see Geno stop to exchange some friendly repartee with Kayla. It's apparent the level of mutual respect they have for each other.
1576246597231.png
 
At the start of the UConn-ND game broadcast, when they show Geno greeting the ND coaches, you can see Geno stop to exchange some friendly repartee with Kayla. It's apparent the level of mutual respect they have for each other.
View attachment 49107

In addition to some battle royals (royales?) when K-Mac was playing and Geno (obviously) coaching, she's attended a couple of training camps when he was coaching the National Team. You can certainly see the respect and I totally get why.
 
Here's the video clip, which shows the quality of interaction even better:

 
"Granted a dis on some other players, but not Brunelle."

That's what I was trying to get across. When given a chance to complement one of her players, she was so piqued, she used it as a chance to "dis" some other(s).

Sorry for not being as precise as I normally like to be, but the last couple of games have pulled together a lot of points about the program and sometimes the words don't behave as well as I'd like them to... :rolleyes:
(Plus, I'm usually not in the position of leveling some degree of criticism at our coach..well at least not on this board ;))

A lof of the points made are very valid...its' just how and perhpas where you present them that matter. Matter of degrees do count....
 
Here's the video clip, which shows the quality of interaction even better:



Seemed that K-Mac patted them on the back and I most certainly noticed Carol O. and Chris D. giving each other a warm greeting. No surprise there.
 
Here’s something else to consider. If I’m Danielle Cosgrove and my HC just played 2 walk-ons ahead of me, while indicating that I couldn’t keep up with DePaul, I’m not considering transferring at the end of the season. I’m considering transferring at the end of the semester to a school where I can play next season in the spring semester.

That would leave Vaughn as ND’s only player over 6’2”, and while she’s good when she’s healthy, there is certainly a risk. While Cosgrove is limited, 6’4” players don’t grow on trees.
 
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Not that I really understand RPI....

In conference play, the Irish will play 4 teams in current top 25 RPI, 6 in top 50.

UConn, in the AAC, will play Creighton...and no one else in the current top 50. UConn will probably not lose.

Does Notre Dame's schedule offset a loss..or does a loss count much more?

Can a couple of losses put them on the wrong side of the bubble?
 
While I love seeing Muffet "suffer" and I am thrilled at the prospect of entitled ND fans being crushed, I do feel bad for the actual players. It's got to be tough to sign onto a storied program with certain expectations and then just get your butt kicked. What makes it worse is that the fans in road losses are more joyful than for a typical victory because their teams are beating ND. I'm happy Geno took his foot off the gas, rather than crush them by 50. Although I must say I came to this enlightened opinion long after the game. I was cheering for a crushing while watching.
 
Not that I really understand RPI....

In conference play, the Irish will play 4 teams in current top 25 RPI, 6 in top 50.

UConn, in the AAC, will play Creighton...and no one else in the current top 50. UConn will probably not lose.

Does Notre Dame's schedule offset a loss..or does a loss count much more?

Can a couple of losses put them on the wrong side of the bubble?
Creighton is in the Big East, not the AAC.

Not really sure what you're asking. The stronger the schedule, the higher the RPI, all other things being equal. A team with a .500 record but a very strong SOS could finish in the top 50 of the RPI. Another .500 team with a very weak SOS might finish outside the top 200.

Notre Dame can sustain more than a couple more losses and still make the tournament.
 
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Creighton is in the Big East, not the AAC.

Not really sure what you're asking. The stronger the schedule, the higher the RPI, all other things being equal. A team with a .500 record but a very strong SOS could finish in the top 50 of the RPI. Another .500 team with a very weak SOS might finish outside the top 200.

Notre Dame can sustain more than a couple more losses and still make the tournament.

Thanks...I really don't understand how the bubble works....trying to learn...how RPI works...how it affects an invite.

Yeah...I knew Creighton was BE...don't know why my brain skipped...but thank you.
 
Thanks...I really don't understand how the bubble works....trying to learn...how RPI works...how it affects an invite.


Yea, I don't think most people understand that. Heck, I'm not sure the Selection Committee has a good grasp on the bubble.
 
They let a team like ND score 94 points, how many do you think UConn will score? I believe it will be a lot more than ND.
There is no way Uconn scores 100 against DePaul.
 
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Thanks...I really don't understand how the bubble works....trying to learn...how RPI works...how it affects an invite.

Yeah...I knew Creighton was BE...don't know why my brain skipped...but thank you.
It's far from an exact science, but in any given year there are multiple teams with double-digit losses that get at-large bids.

The selection committee typically places a huge value on having wins over teams in the RPI top 50 in deciding which bubble teams get in. So a team can have lots of losses and still get in if they have those top-50 wins.
 
While I love seeing Muffet "suffer" and I am thrilled at the prospect of entitled ND fans being crushed, I do feel bad for the actual players. It's got to be tough to sign onto a storied program with certain expectations and then just get your butt kicked. What makes it worse is that the fans in road losses are more joyful than for a typical victory because their teams are beating ND. I'm happy Geno took his foot off the gas, rather than crush them by 50. Although I must say I came to this enlightened opinion long after the game. I was cheering for a crushing while watching.
Agree with all you said, EXCEPT... I don't feel bad for the players either. I think it's great that they sign onto a storied program with certain expectations and then just get their butt kicked. They made their bed - now they can lie in it. I'm sure the ones who stick around will be part of a competitive ND team in a couple years.

1576254680976.png
 
Agree with all you said, EXCEPT... I don't feel bad for the players either. I think it's great that they sign onto a storied program with certain expectations and then just get their butt kicked. They made their bed - now they can lie in it. I'm sure the ones who stick around will be part of a competitive ND team in a couple years.
My capacity for sympathy is particularly limited because of how ND and its minions constantly flaunt their silver spoon of institutional privilege. Muffet et al. love to wax diarrheically poetic about the "40-year decision" as the grand selling point. I don't easily feel sorry for people who gravitate toward an elitist country-club mentality.
 
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There is no way Uconn scores 100 against DePaul.

Hardly our goal. If we get into such a deluge with no structure, that does not bode well for us.
 
It's far from an exact science, but in any given year there are multiple teams with double-digit losses that get at-large bids.

The selection committee typically places a huge value on having wins over teams in the RPI top 50 in deciding which bubble teams get in. So a team can have lots of losses and still get in if they have those top-50 wins.

Thanks again...I was looking at past years trying to understand how FSU at 23-12 got in the year before last while St. Bonaventure 25-7 (with RPI of 24) was assigned to the play in game with UCLA.

Is SOS not incorporated into RPI...or, maybe considered separately...

I think I might have it...those considerations by "quadrant"...not something us casual fans were aware of.
 
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