DePaul and the Big East

[nelsonmuntz]

ESPN is dying for a many reasons, none of them have to do with major college sports not being profitable (in fact, without college sports ESPN would probably already be dead).

Major college sports will continue to be a very profitable business because of the amount of eyeballs they draw. There is a reason why the B1G just signed a media deal that will pay their schools $100 million per year very soon.

Maybe it won’t be Disney / ESPN in a decade, but someone will continue to air major college sports and profit immensely. Unless there is a major culture shift away from wanting to watch (and bet on) college sports in the US, which is doubtful.

If you are interested in this topic, you should dig in on what cutting the cord means for ESPN and a lot of the companies that were dependent on carriage fees. It is transforming every aspect of entertainment, including sports. ESPN got massive carriage fees from ever cable subscriber whether they watched ESPN or not, which gave it enormous power in the market and let it essentially pick winners. The DTC model is completely different, and ESPN has no competitive advantage in that model because cable channel real estate won't matter.

This is one of the more interesting, real-time industry transformations we may see in our lifetime. Massive media companies are scrambling to adjust to a revenue model that is completely different than the one they have built their businesses around. There are going to be some huge winners, like Netflix, which is practically printing money, and others are going to faceplant trying to make the transition. Disney/Hulu/ESPN is near the top of the "at risk" companies on that list.

There is a thread on streaming on the Realignment Board.

 

[Tyler2Rings]

2 "getright" games a year within the conference to get guys in a groove, get their confidence up, and collect a win during a brutal conference season, they can be terrible forever for all I care. somebody has to suck, every team in the conference can't be good. hell, I think UConn playing them in the BET opener in 2011 got them back on track after they closed out the regular season with back to back Ls.

I agree. But a team ranked in the 100-150 range would still suck in the BE. DePaul is ~250 right now and it drags the league down

 

[auror]

I agree. But a team ranked in the 100-150 range would still suck in the BE. DePaul is ~250 right now and it drags the league down

As long as you beat them by the right amount, it doesn't really drag us down at all. Naked SoS isn't a big thing for the committee.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

Look at Baylor before hiring Scott Drew. From 1951 until 2007, Baylor had been to 1 NCAA tournament and 3 NITs with no conference championships. And, they had a player murder scandal under Dave Bliss, the coach before they hired Drew. Some people would argue that Drew has done as good a job of program building at Baylor as Calhoun did at UConn.

Some people are stupid.

 

[husky429]

This reminds me of the “Don’t sleep on Richie Springs” post that ran for like 3 years. Every year Richie was going to have a breakout season. Every year he barely got off the bench. He is now playing at QU. I don’t know how much he plays there. He came off the bench for a few minutes in the 1 game I saw. Nice kid. Dedicated. Just not that good. One might say something similar about DePaul.

I hadn't checked in on him since the season started... Averaging 5/4/1 at Quinnipiac in 13mpg.

It's remarkable just how poorly he translated his game from HS to college. He was a 3* but had offers from the good guys, Creighton, Minnesota, and Illinois. Not a light list by any means. Always had a tweener game but there was plenty of potential.

Good to see him get some run and get his degree on a strong note though. Well-deserved for the champ.

 

[McLovin]

If you are interested in this topic, you should dig in on what cutting the cord means for ESPN and a lot of the companies that were dependent on carriage fees. It is transforming every aspect of entertainment, including sports. ESPN got massive carriage fees from ever cable subscriber whether they watched ESPN or not, which gave it enormous power in the market and let it essentially pick winners. The DTC model is completely different, and ESPN has no competitive advantage in that model because cable channel real estate won't matter.

This is one of the more interesting, real-time industry transformations we may see in our lifetime. Massive media companies are scrambling to adjust to a revenue model that is completely different than the one they have built their businesses around. There are going to be some huge winners, like Netflix, which is practically printing money, and others are going to faceplant trying to make the transition. Disney/Hulu/ESPN is near the top of the "at risk" companies on that list.

There is a thread on streaming on the Realignment Board.

Right. ESPN has a business model built for cable. That’s their problem. They have ESPN, 2, U and News and get paid handsomely by cable to carry all of them.

Streaming platforms want nothing to do with the latter (and even ESPN / 2 daytime programming) so they are probably getting way less from the streaming services while also having to still invest in content for those dead channels to satisfy cable.

Then they doubled down by making poor business decisions on the streaming front. Despite being the first sports DTC streaming option with ESPN+, they have been lapped by other services in content quality.

They get 1 International NFL game per year, and weren’t strong enough to negotiate for all 5. Then they picked the NHL, which probably has more Canadian viewers than US viewers as their “hook” sport, while Apple TV gobbled up the MLS (which will pass NHL in viewership by end of decade), Amazon got TNF, YouTube got Sunday Ticket and Peacock got the Premiere League.

Bad business model with a poor product.

Just because Boston Market filed bankruptcy, it’s not accurate to say Americans don’t like fried chicken. It means Americans don’t like their fried chicken.

That’s basically the conclusion you’re trying to reach with ESPN and the value of sports by saying “only another 2 or 3 years…” because of cutting the cord.

Sports are in their golden age and probably have another few decades of getting a premium for their content from providers built for the future. ESPN dug their own grave if they won’t be around for it...

 

[huskyinfl]

Maybe... hear me out.. the big east helps depaul get better. The better they are the more money we all get.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

That’s basically the conclusion you’re trying to reach with ESPN and the value of sports by saying “only another 2 or 3 years…” because of cutting the cord.

Sports are in their golden age and probably have another few decades of getting a premium for their content from providers built for the future. ESPN dug their own grave if they won’t be around for it...

That's not what I am saying. I am saying that a business model based on carriage fees does not have much time left in it. As Netflix proved, switching over to a subscription, streaming model can be insanely profitable. Netflix is basically a money machine now. All the others that fought it and tried to stretch out the bundled cable model or worse, depended on people going into theatres, are in big trouble.

Rutgers was added to the Big 10 because of carriage fees. That rationale is dying. I don't know if it will be dead in 2 to 3 years, but that is what Iger and Disney have been signaling as the point at which they will try to switch over to a streaming, subscription model. We will see.

 

[NowInStorrs]

Maybe... hear me out.. the big east helps depaul get better. The better they are the more money we all get.

Just imagine how bad they'd be if they weren't in the Big East

 

[How Sway?!]

Right. ESPN has a business model built for cable. That’s their problem. They have ESPN, 2, U and News and get paid handsomely by cable to carry all of them.

Streaming platforms want nothing to do with the latter (and even ESPN / 2 daytime programming) so they are probably getting way less from the streaming services while also having to still invest in content for those dead channels to satisfy cable.

Then they doubled down by making poor business decisions on the streaming front. Despite being the first sports DTC streaming option with ESPN+, they have been lapped by other services in content quality.

They get 1 International NFL game per year, and weren’t strong enough to negotiate for all 5. Then they picked the NHL, which probably has more Canadian viewers than US viewers as their “hook” sport, while Apple TV gobbled up the MLS (which will pass NHL in viewership by end of decade), Amazon got TNF, YouTube got Sunday Ticket and Peacock got the Premiere League.

Bad business model with a poor product.

Just because Boston Market filed bankruptcy, it’s not accurate to say Americans don’t like fried chicken. It means Americans don’t like their fried chicken.

That’s basically the conclusion you’re trying to reach with ESPN and the value of sports by saying “only another 2 or 3 years…” because of cutting the cord.

Sports are in their golden age and probably have another few decades of getting a premium for their content from providers built for the future. ESPN dug their own grave if they won’t be around for it...

Not to derail, but ESPN passed on MLS because they secured La Liga fan bundesliga, who have a bigger audience.

 

[ecasadoSBU]

Some may recall that years ago Temple was kicked out of the Big East as an affiliate football member due to not meeting requirements/support the league has set.

I don't think it's such a crazy question to evaluate DePaul - even as a full member - under a similar lense.

This is Depaul's 19th season in the Big East and their membership has been nothing short of an abomination.

18 completed seasons have yielded:

-1 NIT bid
-1 season with a winning conference record
-7 last place finishes
-Have 3 conference wins or less in 11 of 17 seasons
-Total win loss of 66 and 255 (21%)
-0 fan support or buzz

This program will have the same media distribution from the Big East as UConn?

I've been against expansion because I enjoy the round robin.. but it's about time we boot these losers and get Gonzaga, Dayton, or St. Louis...anyone with a pulse.

All leagues need one or two teams to beat up on. DePaul does the job. It's the way it is. Ideally it would be nice if the team at the bottom is different every year and not locked into a "caste-like" structure. But it is what it is. No one is getting kicked out.

We are in the days of expansion, not contraction. It makes no sense to do this.


With all that said - I firmly believe that Chicago is an important market to have presence on for the Big East. Why would we give it up? Even if DePaul currently doesn't draw much.

I also firmly believe that with the right effort, fine tuning, and a bit of luck - DePaul can be a winner some day. It won't be easy, but it's definitely possible.

Dayton? Another team in the same Ohio area? Why?


St. Louis? Not exciting either. But at least its a bigger city and opens up a new state

 

[shizzle787]

10 million customers a year are cutting the cord.

That trend is slowing. There will be a bottom baseline. People watch sports. The people that watch sports generally have cable.

 

[05Alum]

I have friend who is well connected with Creighton and the Creighton program. We had a discussion about Depaul, and he mentioned that the reason why Depaul has failed to compete is that they 100% refuse to cheat, pay players etc.
He then went out to talk about the compensation of Creighton players, which was another wild conversation.
I tend to believe him, as Depaul has a lot going for them their in terms of market, endowment, etc to not have any success the last 20 years.

 

[John]

I have friend who is well connected with Creighton and the Creighton program. We had a discussion about Depaul, and he mentioned that the reason why Depaul has failed to compete is that they 100% refuse to cheat, pay players etc.
He then went out to talk about the compensation of Creighton players, which was another wild conversation.
I tend to believe him, as Depaul has a lot going for them their in terms of market, endowment, etc to not have any success the last 20 years.

In the current environment you have to pay the players to be successful, wonder how their NIL is?

 

[QDOG5]

Personally, I don't want DePaul to leave because I get to see UConn in Chicago every year. It is true that DePaul is a sleeping giant and a dumpster fire simultaneously. There is no on/near campus in the foreseeable future. They are currently having trouble getting zoning for a new practice facility. There are 125,000 DePaul alums in the Chicago area. They need to organize an NIL collective and start prodding the administration and AD to get their act together. Dayton is consistently competitive and has a strong fan base but I still wouldn't take them over DePaul. Same goes for St. Louis.

 

[McLovin]

Not to derail, but ESPN passed on MLS because they secured La Liga fan bundesliga, who have a bigger audience.

Globally, yes, but in the US (where I assume ESPN purchased the exclusive rights for) Liga MX, Premier League and MLS are all more widely watched (according to every source I can find online) than either the Spanish or German leagues.

 

[superjohn]

Personally, I don't want DePaul to leave because I get to see UConn in Chicago every year. It is true that DePaul is a sleeping giant and a dumpster fire simultaneously. There is no on/near campus in the foreseeable future. They are currently having trouble getting zoning for a new practice facility. There are 125,000 DePaul alums in the Chicago area. They need to organize an NIL collective and start prodding the administration and AD to get their act together. Dayton is consistently competitive and has a strong fan base but I still wouldn't take them over DePaul. Same goes for St. Louis.

I wish they would've built the new arena where the Finkle Steel plant was between Bucktown and Lincoln Park. There's plenty of room there but traffic/getting to the highway peobably would've been a problem. That whole $6-7 billion Lincoln Yards project has turned into a disaster with all the environmental cleanup.

 

[Viet Vet]

When Northwestern gets booted from the Big 10, the Big East will write a check to bring them aboard.

Northwestern will not be booted. Charter member, academic powerhouse, Chicagoland institution.

 

[freescooter]

In 1986, UConn was a team with no hope and no future. They had a coach that was putting out worse and worse teams every year. And an absentee athletic director that didn't seem to care. We were the team people were saying was content to just cash paychecks without trying to do better. As we know, one good hire can change everything.

It was more than one good hire, though that was clearly the catalyst and what made it actually happen. The entire university “management structure” from the Bd of Trustees to the President to the AD all bought into Calhoun’s vision. Gampel got built after years of talk. Just as 1 example. Without the institutional support at the highest levels, Calhoun is probably remembered as the guy who took UConn to Providence’s level before he left and won titles at NC State or somewhere.

As for the Baylor coach, he has done a remarkable job but wake me when he wins another Championship.

 

[freescooter]

I think they need to be gone, they would struggle in the better mid-major leagues. I doubt there is a mechanism to kick them out, though. So just as schools and leagues negotiate to get out of leagues they don’t want to be in, the league ought to go to them with a plan to go away. DePaul is comparable to a bunch of the Mid-majors in the sense that at one time they were somebody. LaSalle won a championship and went to a couple of championship games, Dayton, San Francisco, Bradley, Providence, St John’s. Schools that at one time were national names but now have no intention of ever winning it all. They are thrilled to make the dance. Ecstatic if they win a game. I’d put DePaul in that category. There was a time but it is long past and they neither can nor want to return to those days.

 

[Inyatkin]

I get why people are dismissive of Dayton, but imagine how different the conversation would be if the 2020 tournament happened. They were 29-2, had the national player of the year and were headed for a No. 1 seed. Hard to think any team got it worse from what happened that year.

 

[Fishy]

DePaul is a sleeping giant, that won't wake up. The Chicago school is awaiting the perfect coach/players to wake them up.

I say wait on them, even if it means we die waiting.

They’re not a sleeping giant.

They’re a comatose midget. Even if they wake up, who cares?

 

[GHSWolverines]

Imagine what other teams were saying about UConn in 1985.

True but.... Depaul was good during the Ray Meyer era

 

[Fishy]

Maybe... hear me out.. the big east helps depaul get better. The better they are the more money we all get.

They’ve been in the Big East for two decades - they’ve have one winning season in-conference and that was in year two. They’ve won three or fewer conference games 11 times. They’re the worst power conference program and whoever is next-worst is several orbits above them.

Anyway, you were saying?

 

[freescooter]

They’ve been in the Big East for two decades - they’ve have one winning season in-conference and that was in year two. They’ve won three or fewer conference games 11 times. They’re the worst power conference program and whoever is next-worst is several orbits above them.

Anyway, you were saying?

Right! In fact they get OVERRATED in all the NET/RPI stuff because they play a major schedule and strength of schedule pushes thier ratings up. So in a sense he is correct. The NEWBIE does help them get better! Not on the court but in the computational models. In reality they are maybe a MAAC level program. No business being even considered a major program.