ShakyTheMohel
Is it 11:11 yet?
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While the recruiting piece is important, lets not forget the importance of alumni population. I think the B1G has a pretty strong alumni base in the NE/NY area.
Dennis Dodd: Big Ten expansion not done...stay tuned
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Unfortunately that arguement was used for Rutgers. It does not add value twice.
CTMike
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Sure it does. If someone goes to 2 games instead of 1, that's twice. Not to mention there are plenty of B1G alums within driving distance to the Rent who aren't driving distance to Rutgers. And... We're not Piscataway. Big points there.
HuskyHawk
The triumphant return of the Blues Brothers.
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Connecticut is never going to be a great recruiting ground, Soccer, Hockey and LAX consume too much attention from young athletes for that. But, UConn landing in the B1G, and kids growing up going to games against Michigan, OSU, Penn State, Nebraska and Wisconsin would elevate the game of college football in CT dramatically. Now if they could also convince the HS teams to play Friday night, instead of Saturday, it would really take off.
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No. According to Swofford Notre Dame cannot join any conference except the ACC through 2026.
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It's going to come down to our competition for the two slots, if we are the best remaining option, we will be in good shape.
No other school out there brings the basketball value that we have (not even close), and Women's basketball does matter because of the halo effect our program has. Adding the UCONN women's team makes the entire sport relevant and revenue producing to the league. We are also the only school available that solidifies NYC which is one of their stated goals.
Our competition:
AAC - We easily beat everyone in the AAC, it's not worth discussing
MWC - Nope
ACC - Not if the GOR matters and if they still poach from the ACC we probably get the ACC slot
Big 12 and SEC - could Kansas and Missouri be added? Maybe, but one would think that we are more valuable then Kansas.
Could ND go along with Missouri? This is probably our worst case scenario that could leave us out. This would mean that God hates UCONN for some reason.
I like our chances (assuming that God does not hate UCONN)
No other school out there brings the basketball value that we have (not even close), and Women's basketball does matter because of the halo effect our program has. Adding the UCONN women's team makes the entire sport relevant and revenue producing to the league. We are also the only school available that solidifies NYC which is one of their stated goals.
Our competition:
AAC - We easily beat everyone in the AAC, it's not worth discussing
MWC - Nope
ACC - Not if the GOR matters and if they still poach from the ACC we probably get the ACC slot
Big 12 and SEC - could Kansas and Missouri be added? Maybe, but one would think that we are more valuable then Kansas.
Could ND go along with Missouri? This is probably our worst case scenario that could leave us out. This would mean that God hates UCONN for some reason.
I like our chances (assuming that God does not hate UCONN)
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Recruiting is a negative now, but it can become a neutral factor with continued growth in northeast high school football, similar to what has recently been underway in Connecticut and occurred in New Jersey decades ago.
Here are the sources of NFL players. The northeast doesn't do too badly:
There are athletes here. They typically need more development than southern players, who are more advanced coming in to college. But you have 5 years in football; the upperclassmen in the north can compete with upperclassmen in the south.
The reason recruiting can become a neutral factor, even though there is a lack of football culture up here causing us to lose some of the athletes, is that there is a higher density of athletes per local university than in the south. New England and New York have 34 million people and 3 BCS schools, 11 million people per school. Michigan has 10 million people and 2 BCS schools, 5 million people per school. Alabama has 4.8 million people and 2 BCS schools, 2.4 million per school. The pool of genetically gifted high level athletes is higher per school in the northeast.
Our trouble is that many of them don't go into football and many of those who do don't play it long enough to develop a love for the game. But, with the growth of football at the university level, we are seeing more interest at the high school level. High school coaches are learning at university clinics. Kids are attending high-level college games.
It will come. Not saying we'll ever grow football to a level where our recruiting territory is a positive. I don't think so. But it can be competitive.
Here are the sources of NFL players. The northeast doesn't do too badly:
There are athletes here. They typically need more development than southern players, who are more advanced coming in to college. But you have 5 years in football; the upperclassmen in the north can compete with upperclassmen in the south.
The reason recruiting can become a neutral factor, even though there is a lack of football culture up here causing us to lose some of the athletes, is that there is a higher density of athletes per local university than in the south. New England and New York have 34 million people and 3 BCS schools, 11 million people per school. Michigan has 10 million people and 2 BCS schools, 5 million people per school. Alabama has 4.8 million people and 2 BCS schools, 2.4 million per school. The pool of genetically gifted high level athletes is higher per school in the northeast.
Our trouble is that many of them don't go into football and many of those who do don't play it long enough to develop a love for the game. But, with the growth of football at the university level, we are seeing more interest at the high school level. High school coaches are learning at university clinics. Kids are attending high-level college games.
It will come. Not saying we'll ever grow football to a level where our recruiting territory is a positive. I don't think so. But it can be competitive.
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I'm not sure how it all will shake out but I think we see UCONN to the B1G and Cincy to the B12 (because the B1G nabbed a B12 school). UCONN gives the B1G more market for the B1G Network and Cincy gives B12 a travel partner (kind of) with WVA who right now is out on an island.
Hope it works out for us both.
Hope it works out for us both.
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Unless FranktheTank is the decision maker, then Gale Sayers and Kansas's storied athletic legacy trumps UConn's market size advantages.
The main issue is that we need a major school like Missouri or Kansas to be available to have a partner, but if Kansas is available then Oklahoma and Texas may be too, and those schools may wish to recreate the best of the old Big 12 with Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, and Missouri joining Nebraska in the west of the B1G; or some lesser combination, such as Kansas and Oklahoma if Missouri stays in the SEC. FranktheTank values Oklahoma's football history above UConn's market, basketball, and research/academics (we'll be AAU 50 years ahead of Oklahoma). Let's hope Frank's thinking isn't reflective of B1G presidents; of if Big XII schools become available, it is an odd number of universities.
Another factor is that if TV network money is really driving this, then the Pac12 could be a player in a B12 breakup. Fox might do a major deal where it migrates B12 schools from their split ESPN/Fox contract to pure Fox with the Pac and new B1G deals. With the Pac and B1G splitting the league, there are spaces for all, at least all the politically powerful players. This is the only way I see the Pac getting to 16 (though I don't see why that is important). This could work to UConn's advantage or disadvantage; by shrinking the number of conferences it might shrink the available D4 slots to 16 x 4 which would hurt us. On the other hand it is movement and could be an opportunity for us to get an invite.
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I keep seeing Mizzou mentioned...they just joined the SEC so why would they be interested in the B1G?
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They are mentioned because the SEC does not have a GOR, and they would culturally and geographically make more sense in the B1G. The fact that they just joined the SEC also makes them more likely to leave if offered because their fans have not yet developed rivalries with those schools.
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Frank the Tank has some great insights, no doubt but he has also been wrong a number of times so take that for what it's worth. I just don't see the B1G taking KU over UCONN from any angle. ND, sure that would be a no brainer but ND doesn't need a conference for fb. They know darn well no matter what goes down (new division, P5 splits from ncaa, etc etc etc) that they will be included at the adult table. As for OU and/or Texas to B1G...so far they have shown a willingness to keep the B12 together. And why not, they rule that conference, and esp Texas. Texas gets a bigger cut of B12 revenues etc. Why would they join the B1G and all of a sudden share center stage with OSU and Michigan? I don't see it. Texas likes to be the "pretty girl" at the office and joining the B1G will all but eliminate that.
I really see the B1G taking UCONN for sure. I'm not sure the B12 loses anybody to the B1G but I think the B12, who was told they have to have 12 for a conference championship game will be looking to add...I am hopeful this add will be Cincy. We have as good a shot as anybody left in the G5 anyway. Depends what BYU decides most likely. I think we are possible 2nd choice to the b12 after BYU. Again, just my hunch. But does the B12 want to put up with BYU's religious stipulations? And UC give a great market and has history with WVA. Plus our AD is from Mizzou and he has a lot of B12 connections. We'll see.
As long as we (UC and UCONN) are out of the CUSA V2.0 I'm good.
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They wanted in the B1G badly, tried many times and were rejected, SEC was their backup. The B1G is a lateral move money wise but they see it as a better academic/research/cultural fit. It puts them with neighbors Nebraska, Iowa, Illinois and in the likely landing spot of Kansas and Oklahoma when/if the B12 breaks up. Missouri's other contiguous states (Arkansas, Tennessee, and Kentucky) don't have as much mindshare. Missourians see themselves as midwesterners, not southerners. The population center of the state is more in the north, St Louis and Kansas City. They would be more competitive in football in the B1G.
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Plus, to get into the B1G, UConn needs a partner as it is doubtful that the B1G wants to have uneven numbers again. The ACC and XII appear to be standing pat with a GOR in place (though, I do wonder if the XII would let WV go to either the ACC or the SEC if the XII cannot/will not add a local travel partner for them and then replace them with BYU or someone else). Thus, a SEC school or non P5 school would be the B1G’s only choice. Cincy has no chance due to Ohio State and USF and those out West make no geographic (nor academic) sense. Missouri would thus be a logical choice for the reasons noted above.
I was counting NY and the entire NE region for those 3 schools to arrive at the ~50% (since that was the original comment), not just in-state.
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I won't oppose as a condition to UConn's entry into the Big Ten, Cincy must be invited to the Big 12.
But seriously, I'm sure your school, alumni, and fanbase probably look to the ACC (maybe Big 12) as UConn does to the Big Ten. It looks like you're doing everything you can to get your seat at the table (especially Tuberville hire and Nippert renovations). The greeting card stuff is a little awkward, but better to go down swinging than turn tail and run.
But seriously, I'm sure your school, alumni, and fanbase probably look to the ACC (maybe Big 12) as UConn does to the Big Ten. It looks like you're doing everything you can to get your seat at the table (especially Tuberville hire and Nippert renovations). The greeting card stuff is a little awkward, but better to go down swinging than turn tail and run.
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Yup...Cincy will never join the B1G for two reasons: Ohio State would never allow it and also, it doesn't give the B1G a new market.
Cincy's best chance is for the ACC to lose a team or two (that GOR isn't actually "in place" like people think) or for the B12 to lose a team or two. The great news is with talks that the B1G is expanding and also the Pac12 isn't totally done there will be some spots that open up....for both UC and UCONN.
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Of the two I'd rather join the ACC...it's just a better fit, and esp with one of our biggest rivals (UofL) now in that conference. The B12 would just be a bad fit for us...but I'd take it, don't get me wrong. The ACC is better because we could compete right away in football whereas in our fb in the B12 would be middling at best (see wva). I also like the ACC for hoops because Cronin recruits NY and it's just a better fit for us.
Again, I'm sure you all are saying the same thing...i don't give a rats as long as we end up back at the adult table at thanksgiving dinner...
Recruiting is a negative now, but it can become a neutral factor with continued growth in northeast high school football, similar to what has recently been underway in Connecticut and occurred in New Jersey decades ago.
Here are the sources of NFL players. The northeast doesn't do too badly:
There are athletes here. They typically need more development than southern players, who are more advanced coming in to college. But you have 5 years in football; the upperclassmen in the north can compete with upperclassmen in the south.
The reason recruiting can become a neutral factor, even though there is a lack of football culture up here causing us to lose some of the athletes, is that there is a higher density of athletes per local university than in the south. New England and New York have 34 million people and 3 BCS schools, 11 million people per school. Michigan has 10 million people and 2 BCS schools, 5 million people per school. Alabama has 4.8 million people and 2 BCS schools, 2.4 million per school. The pool of genetically gifted high level athletes is higher per school in the northeast.
Our trouble is that many of them don't go into football and many of those who do don't play it long enough to develop a love for the game. But, with the growth of football at the university level, we are seeing more interest at the high school level. High school coaches are learning at university clinics. Kids are attending high-level college games.
It will come. Not saying we'll ever grow football to a level where our recruiting territory is a positive. I don't think so. But it can be competitive.
I think the map is a bit misleading because it's going by place of birth and lumps metro areas instead of going by state. If you go by where they went to HS it's a different story because many of families whose players who were born in the north migrated south later.
http://www.maxpreps.com/news/J_G3Ol...ery-active-nfl-player-went-to-high-school.htm
You're right that NE has the population but I'm doubtful that a large scale culture change will ever happen. The NE was one of the original major recruiting areas from the early 1900s until the 70s w/ the Ivy powers back when they were still at competing at the top level. That has faded over time as other sports has taken hold along with urbanization and the entire region slowly turning into a pro-sports state.
I guess it's time for the mantra - "In CR, count on nothing."
Having said that; UConn makes as much sense (or more in my opinion) as any other possible add to the B1G. (Save ND, but that won't happen since they got the ACC to dance to their tune.) I don't think this happens w/o AAU membership, however. The B1G will not sacrifice its academic reputation on the altar of football as the ACC did with the Louisville add.
We all have to agree that SH is doing her best in this regard and I think she'll pull it off. Ranking are of dubious value, but UConn is ranked in the general range as PSU, Ill, OSU and Rutgers. This would be below NW, Mich and Wisc, but ahead of a lot of B1G schools. UConn also benefits from trending higher academically consistently over the last ten years.
Having said that; UConn makes as much sense (or more in my opinion) as any other possible add to the B1G. (Save ND, but that won't happen since they got the ACC to dance to their tune.) I don't think this happens w/o AAU membership, however. The B1G will not sacrifice its academic reputation on the altar of football as the ACC did with the Louisville add.
We all have to agree that SH is doing her best in this regard and I think she'll pull it off. Ranking are of dubious value, but UConn is ranked in the general range as PSU, Ill, OSU and Rutgers. This would be below NW, Mich and Wisc, but ahead of a lot of B1G schools. UConn also benefits from trending higher academically consistently over the last ten years.
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I honestly believe that Cincy has a better shot at the ACC than UConn at this point in time due to 1) all of the political BS over the last few years between UConn and the ACC and 2) Cincy would give the ACC a foothold in a new market (Midwest) in terms of TV’s and recruiting. UConn’s likely avenue into the ACC is if the ACC suddenly fears that UConn may get indeed get an invite to the B1G and jumps first in a defensive move to protect the NYC market (like always). A UConn/Rutgers tandem with local B1G alumni from other schools would likely overwhelm the ACC’s NYC presence with Syracuse, which is a lot father away geographically than both, and ND plus their alumni base (primarily Duke).
FYI- from Times Square in NYC, it is 40 miles to Rutgers, 150 miles to UConn, and 250 miles to Syracuse (which is about the same distance as it is to Penn State).
FYI- from Times Square in NYC, it is 40 miles to Rutgers, 150 miles to UConn, and 250 miles to Syracuse (which is about the same distance as it is to Penn State).
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SubbaBub
Your stupidity is ruining my country.
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Once again, Uconn must thread the needle to reach the CR promised land.
If the BiG is looking then they can take anyone not in the SEC if the $ is right.
They can buy out Kansas' GOR if they (I mean their cable sugar daddy) wants to pay for it. OU could be another possibility, as could VA.
There could also be a deal between two conferences to raid a third. BIG wants Kansas and OU the B12 says OK if they can get FSU and Clemson to go with Cincy and BYU to get back to 12. They (I mean their cable sugar daddies) provide the $ to make it happen.
The only good news is there are fewer teams for conference 5 (the ACC), but once again Uconn finds itself needing just enough but not too much movement.
As for the D4 movement, I am starting to get the feeling that this will be more inside baseball than transforming revolution. D4 may not have a CR component and certainty won't guarantee an invite for Uconn.
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If the BiG is looking then they can take anyone not in the SEC if the $ is right.
They can buy out Kansas' GOR if they (I mean their cable sugar daddy) wants to pay for it. OU could be another possibility, as could VA.
There could also be a deal between two conferences to raid a third. BIG wants Kansas and OU the B12 says OK if they can get FSU and Clemson to go with Cincy and BYU to get back to 12. They (I mean their cable sugar daddies) provide the $ to make it happen.
The only good news is there are fewer teams for conference 5 (the ACC), but once again Uconn finds itself needing just enough but not too much movement.
As for the D4 movement, I am starting to get the feeling that this will be more inside baseball than transforming revolution. D4 may not have a CR component and certainty won't guarantee an invite for Uconn.
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