Dennis Dodd: Big Ten expansion not done...stay tuned

[Bearcats#1]

At the end of the day I'd like to see UC and UCONN get invites to the P5 or whatever it will be down the road. I think we have made investments to be there, the performance on the field has been there, the markets are there and there is no reason for it not to happen. We each bring a little something different, but we each bring something...a heck of a lot more than a lot of the "grand fathered in" P5 schools anyway.

Best wishes to you guys and us!

In the meantime we need to kick butt in the AAC and make the most of it. Go Cats!

Later fellas...thank you for the talk

 

[itgoeslike]

The Division 1 Board meets August 8th, which could throw off some "clues" regarding the D4 movement.

 

[CTMike]

The NE was one of the original major recruiting areas from the early 1900s until the 70s w/ the Ivy powers back when they were still at competing at the top level.

Competition at the top level. That's the key man. It disappeared for a couple of decades but its been back for a while now. That's what helps it build and thrive. I'm not saying we're going to be a Texas or Florida for recruiting, but NJ? Absolutely doable. Gotta keep working and elevating.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

You're right that NE has the population but I'm doubtful that a large scale culture change will ever happen. The NE was one of the original major recruiting areas from the early 1900s until the 70s w/ the Ivy powers back when they were still at competing at the top level. That has faded over time as other sports has taken hold along with urbanization and the entire region slowly turning into a pro-sports state.

Also, do not discount the fact that in addition to other sports (notably soccer, lacrosse, and hockey), schools; both high school and college, on average are better in the Northeast than the Southwest or Southwest. Thus, football down in Miami or elsewhere maybe a student’s best shot at a successful career while a student from the Northeast maybe able to find solid career options from both the athletic and angles.

 

[metsfan2323]

Another factor to be considered is the fact that the B1G can probably get UCONN for a half share, if they go after Missouri or another school already in the P5 they will need to pony up a full share.

A scenario never discussed is what would UCONN do if offered a half share by the B1G and a full share by the ACC? Personally I hope we would still go to the B1G.

 

[Sea Goat]

I honestly believe that Cincy has a better shot at the ACC than UConn at this point in time due to 1) all of the political BS over the last few years between UConn and the ACC and 2) Cincy would give the ACC a foothold in a new market (Midwest) in terms of TV’s and recruiting. UConn’s likely avenue into the ACC is if the ACC suddenly fears that UConn may get indeed get an invite to the B1G and jumps first in a defensive move to protect the NYC market (like always). A UConn/Rutgers tandem with local B1G alumni from other schools would likely overwhelm the ACC’s NYC presence with Syracuse, which is a lot father away geographically than both, and ND plus their alumni base (primarily Duke).
FYI- from Times Square in NYC, it is 40 miles to Rutgers, 150 miles to UConn, and 250 miles to Syracuse (which is about the same distance as it is to Penn State).

Good post Conehead,

I do think Cincy gets situated in a P-5 conference. It won't be the B1G, however. More likely the Big-12 or outside shot at ACC.

IMO, UConn will be set if and when AAU membership comes for the reasons you note.

 

[BCINGYA]

Yup...Cincy will never join the B1G for two reasons: Ohio State would never allow it and also, it doesn't give the B1G a new market.

Cincy's best chance is for the ACC to lose a team or two (that GOR isn't actually "in place" like people think) or for the B12 to lose a team or two. The great news is with talks that the B1G is expanding and also the Pac12 isn't totally done there will be some spots that open up....for both UC and UCONN.

Sorry, but that is not true, with all due respect the GOR was unanimously approved and accepted in April. Technically speaking the official effective date was July 1st...signed sealed and delivered. July 2027 is the expiration date.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

The Big XII breakup could be the next move. At least 9 and possibly all 10 teams could find logical homes in the other four conferences.

PAC: Texas, TT, Oklahoma, Ok. St.
B1G: Kansas, either Iowa St. or UConn (if the politicians allow it)
SEC: West Virginia and Kansas St.
ACC: TCU and Baylor

It's too logical, which means it won't happen...

 

[UPitt]

Connecticut is never going to be a great recruiting ground, Soccer, Hockey and LAX consume too much attention from young athletes for that. But, UConn landing in the B1G, and kids growing up going to games against Michigan, OSU, Penn State, Nebraska and Wisconsin would elevate the game of college football in CT dramatically. Now if they could also convince the HS teams to play Friday night, instead of Saturday, it would really take off.

Agree with your analysis on soccer, hockey, and LAX. I believe this to be a similar problem in parts of the ACC (Boston, Virignia, NC, DC). BB also impacts football recruiting in many urban areas. NYC provides many football recruits due to a very large population, but the strong presence of BB in NYC detracts from the football recruiting as many of the top athletes choose BB over football.

I also agree that football in CT would change dramatically in a positive way if Uconn was in the B1G. This change could provide a positive impact to B1G in the future. But to paraphrase the B1G, "The B1G is not in the business of expansion to make schools better, but instead in the business of expansion to add schools that make the conference better." I believe you can (and should) argue that Uconn will provide the latter. The Uconn football program and CT recruiting grounds are not stregnths, but are not complete weaknesses either. You can argue Uconn and CT have grown over the past 15 years and that additional potential exists. Or, at a minimum you can argue that Uconn has not been a leech to the BE in football and has actually put a very competitive team on the field every year and played in a BCS game. Uconn football alone likely does not make the B1G better, but as a whole package (BB, location, and academics) Uconn may very well make the B1G a better conference. Also, I have not seen this mentioned before, but does having a presence of a conference in a state impact the recruiting of students for academics to other conference schools. If so, Uconn would provide that presence for CT and nieghboring states in the NE.

 

[WestHartHusk]

Sorry, but that is not true, with all due respect the GOR was unanimously approved and accepted in April. Technically speaking the official effective date was July 1st...signed sealed and delivered. July 2027 is the expiration date.

Whether or not the GOR is in place really doesn't matter as far as school movement goes - all it means is that the conference keeps the TV rights to said team and the conference continues to pay said team. This is why the ACC also has an exit fee of $50M which adds a level of protection that the Big 12 does not have. So for instance, Kansas can move to the B1G, and keep collecting paychecks from the Big12 has the rights to their home games.

 

[businesslawyer]

Another factor to be considered is the fact that the B1G can probably get UCONN for a half share, if they go after Missouri or another school already in the P5 they will need to pony up a full share.

A scenario never discussed is what would UCONN do if offered a half share by the B1G and a full share by the ACC? Personally I hope we would still go to the B1G.

It's never discussed because it's the equivalent of asking if I would rather sleep with Jennifer Anniston twice or Kate Upson once. The answer is yes.

 

[woomba]

The Big XII breakup could be the next move. At least 9 and possibly all 10 teams could find logical homes in the other four conferences.

PAC: Texas, TT, Oklahoma, Ok. St.
B1G: Kansas, either Iowa St. or UConn (if the politicians allow it)
SEC: West Virginia and Kansas St.
ACC: TCU and Baylor

It's too logical, which means it won't happen...

The way you broke up the schools make no sense, but anyway...Big 12 breakup can still happen, but not in the timeframe for a 2016 expansion.

One of the big pieces left to be move is Texas and the future of LHN - if that sticks around past the end of the GoR I doubt there's much incentive for the Big 12 power brokers to jump ship.

 

[UPitt]

Even if you look at UConn, Syracuse, and BC's recruiting over the past 5-6 years you see that only about half of the FB recruits for these teams are from the NY&NE area (even less for BC) despite there being 34M people there. That's not "plenty of HS athletes".

Did a quick look at the Penn State and Michigan rosters for the upcoming season. Both have about 37% in-state.

I wouldn't put Uconn, BC, and Cuse football program or recruiting in the same tier as Michigan and PSU. Assuming Uconn, BC, and Cuse recruit 50% from NY/NE and Michigan and PSU recruit 37% from in-state (assume close to 50% or so if you include a neighbor state), I think you can argue that Michigan and Pennsylvania provide stronger recruiting grounds than NY/NE. This is clearly not the most scientific way to study recruiting, as PSU and Michigan likely recruit much stronger out of state than many programs and may already recruit some of the top tier talent from NY.

 

[djct1999]

fellow yarders, this has been the plan from day 1. when the big 10 added rutgers and maryland, the contingency plan all along was that uconn and hopefully uva were to soon follow. from the start, delaney has circled nyc as his ultimate goal and in no way did he think rutgers alone would get him that. the problem now is that with uva committed to the acc, the big 10 is scrambling to find a "worthy" school to partner with uconn. surely, by 2016, this will happen. more importantly, this should also help explain our administration's perceived apathy and lack of urgency, as well as our presidents long term vision. the big 10 paved a path for uconn to follow, and by doing so, an invite will soon follow. go huskies!!!!

attn: long winded bloggers.
regardless of how talented our current football team may be, this move will accomplish three things....1. it will strengthen the btn 2. it will stregthen the big 10 3. it will weaken the acc.
be done with it!

 

[metsfan2323]

It's never discussed because it's the equivalent of asking if I would rather sleep with Jennifer Anniston twice or Kate Upson once. The answer is yes.

I'd rather have two shots at Jennifer Anniston, there would be too much pressure knowing you only had one shot. I'm afraid i'd crack like Tony Romo in the playoffs.

 

[businesslawyer]

I can give you UConn's value to the Ten in a nutshell. In the midwest, everyone will pay for the Big Ten Network all year long just to have it in football season. In the Philly to Boston corridor, there is not that appetite. People will not shell out the bucks, at least not until the Big Ten becomes more of a Big Apple conference, unless people want to see winter sports as well. That is what UConn mens hoops, and then women's hoops, and even a tiny bit hockey in the future, brings that RU doesn't. RU is useless to the Big Ten Network outside of football season, which isn't enough to sell subscriptions in NYC. UConn brings the winter demand.

Hopefully, the numbers would back that up, and Jim Delaney knows it.

 

[sportsart]

As an FYI, the BTN has 6-7 broadcast networks in Canada that carry them. Found that interesting. They also have multiple channels only during football season to carry most games.

As for WestHarthusk....Do you really think the B1G would welcome Kansas and let the Big 12 get paid on their home games? What value would Kansas bring. That ain't happening.

 

[WestHartHusk]

As an FYI, the BTN has 6-7 broadcast networks in Canada that carry them. Found that interesting. They also have multiple channels only during football season to carry most games.

As for WestHarthusk....Do you really think the B1G would welcome Kansas and let the Big 12 get paid on their home games? What value would Kansas bring. That ain't happening.

For the short team yes, I think they could stomach that (isn't the Big12 GOR up in like 2018 or is it 2022?).

And the reason is two-fold:

1) the B1G would get the rights to all of the road KU match-ups with B1G clubs (most importantly in bball) without having to pay KU anything. Don't you think having KU/OSU; KU/UM; KU/ILL in bball is worth letting the Big12 air home games for a few years?

2) by virtue of having the rights to all of KU's road games (at least when they play in conference) they can force BTN onto KS/MO cable networks well in advance of the GOR expiration.

And remember, the B1G would get all of the above without having to pay anything. This is why the protestation that the Big12 is more stable than the ACC makes no sense. The ACC has an exit fee, the Big12 does not.

 

[geordi]

The Big XII breakup could be the next move. At least 9 and possibly all 10 teams could find logical homes in the other four conferences.

PAC: Texas, TT, Oklahoma, Ok. St.
B1G: Kansas, either Iowa St. or UConn (if the politicians allow it)
SEC: West Virginia and Kansas St.
ACC: TCU and Baylor

It's too logical, which means it won't happen...

Texas is never going to the Pac12 and without it Oklahoma isn't either. I've heard Dodds indicate that they WILL keep the Big 12 together, but if they were EVER to go anywhere, it would be east. Has to do with travel for athletes...if they have to continually go west to compete, the kids don't get home until mid morning the following day. Too hard on them physically and educationally. Forget the PAC12. If Texas isn't going, the whole Big 12 isn't going anywhere either.

 

[pj]

I think the map is a bit misleading because it's going by place of birth and lumps metro areas instead of going by state. If you go by where they went to HS it's a different story because many of families whose players who were born in the north migrated south later.

http://www.maxpreps.com/news/J_G3Ol...ery-active-nfl-player-went-to-high-school.htm

You're right that NE has the population but I'm doubtful that a large scale culture change will ever happen. The NE was one of the original major recruiting areas from the early 1900s until the 70s w/ the Ivy powers back when they were still at competing at the top level. That has faded over time as other sports has taken hold along with urbanization and the entire region slowly turning into a pro-sports state.

It's the same by high school and with intra-state details:

http://Post original url/1edQH3K

Your maxpreps image (linked above) is also telling:

Connecticut high schools produced 24 current NFL players. That ties Indiana and beats Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, and Nebraska -- most of which have a larger population than Connecticut. On a per capita basis, Connecticut is nearly as good as New Jersey and beats Pennsylvania and Michigan and Maryland as a producer of NFL talent. Ohio is the only B1G state that is distinctly better on a per capita basis.

It's true that the other New England states and New York don't produce many high level football players per capita. But I think the entry of the B1G to the region will have a big impact. Also, Connecticut, though doing well already (~10 BCS level players and ~2 NFL players per year) can do better, and will. High school and UConn football are rapidly rising in importance here.

Finally, the NE-NY region generally is indeed pro sports oriented, but Connecticut specifically is in love with UConn sports.

My point is that in terms of the recruiting territory it brings with it, UConn would not bring the B1G down. We are essentially at the B1G state average as a source of high-level football players; and if UConn in the B1G brings a greater emphasis on football regionally, in NY and NE, then we may even help the B1G recruit.

 

[geordi]

I'd rather have two shots at Jennifer Anniston, there would be too much pressure knowing you only had one shot. I'm afraid i'd crack like Tony Romo in the playoffs.

You might, however, get half a dozen shots at Roseanne Barr.

 

[BCINGYA]

Whether or not the GOR is in place really doesn't matter as far as school movement goes - all it means is that the conference keeps the TV rights to said team and the conference continues to pay said team. This is why the ACC also has an exit fee of $50M which adds a level of protection that the Big 12 does not have. So for instance, Kansas can move to the B1G, and keep collecting paychecks from the Big12 has the rights to their home games.

ALL it means......lol....thats millions and millions of dollars...and the exit fee was imposed long before the GOR not the other way around. NO school will leave their T.V. rights on the table they get zero and the departed conference collects every red cent of it. They become useless to any conference they join. Their T.V. rights become property of the conference. In this day and age of tough economic times that amounts to suicide.

 

[UPitt]

For all the talk about how strong California is in recruiting, the map above shows the region from eastern Michigan to western Pennsylvania, and the region from DC to Boston to be equally as strong. Texas and Florida recruitiing has changed college football. I think that is why you hear talk about UofH, USF, and UCF. And I think this recruiting also helps Baylor and TCU land a home if the Big12 folds.

 

[WestHartHusk]

ALL it means......lol....thats millions and millions of dollars...and the exit fee was imposed long before the GOR not the other way around. NO school will leave their T.V. rights on the table they get zero and the departed conference collects every red cent of it. They become useless to any conference they join. Their T.V. rights become property of the conference. In this day and age of tough economic times that amounts to suicide.

Dude, re-read my post. The conference doesn't get to keep the rights to home games free and clear; they keep the rights so long as they continue to pay that school for the duration of the agreement. If a conference were to keep all of the rights and not pay I can 99.8% guarantee that a court would refuse to enforce such a provision.

 

[UPitt]

Dude, re-read my post. The conference doesn't get to keep the rights to home games free and clear; they keep the rights so long as they continue to pay that school for the duration of the agreement. If a conference were to keep all of the rights and not pay I can 99.8% guarantee that a court would refuse to enforce such a provision.

This will be one heck of a court battle.