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I keep seeing Mizzou mentioned...they just joined the SEC so why would they be interested in the B1G?
Dennis Dodd: Big Ten expansion not done...stay tuned
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They are mentioned because the SEC does not have a GOR, and they would culturally and geographically make more sense in the B1G. The fact that they just joined the SEC also makes them more likely to leave if offered because their fans have not yet developed rivalries with those schools.
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Frank the Tank has some great insights, no doubt but he has also been wrong a number of times so take that for what it's worth. I just don't see the B1G taking KU over UCONN from any angle. ND, sure that would be a no brainer but ND doesn't need a conference for fb. They know darn well no matter what goes down (new division, P5 splits from ncaa, etc etc etc) that they will be included at the adult table. As for OU and/or Texas to B1G...so far they have shown a willingness to keep the B12 together. And why not, they rule that conference, and esp Texas. Texas gets a bigger cut of B12 revenues etc. Why would they join the B1G and all of a sudden share center stage with OSU and Michigan? I don't see it. Texas likes to be the "pretty girl" at the office and joining the B1G will all but eliminate that.
I really see the B1G taking UCONN for sure. I'm not sure the B12 loses anybody to the B1G but I think the B12, who was told they have to have 12 for a conference championship game will be looking to add...I am hopeful this add will be Cincy. We have as good a shot as anybody left in the G5 anyway. Depends what BYU decides most likely. I think we are possible 2nd choice to the b12 after BYU. Again, just my hunch. But does the B12 want to put up with BYU's religious stipulations? And UC give a great market and has history with WVA. Plus our AD is from Mizzou and he has a lot of B12 connections. We'll see.
As long as we (UC and UCONN) are out of the CUSA V2.0 I'm good.
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They wanted in the B1G badly, tried many times and were rejected, SEC was their backup. The B1G is a lateral move money wise but they see it as a better academic/research/cultural fit. It puts them with neighbors Nebraska, Iowa, Illinois and in the likely landing spot of Kansas and Oklahoma when/if the B12 breaks up. Missouri's other contiguous states (Arkansas, Tennessee, and Kentucky) don't have as much mindshare. Missourians see themselves as midwesterners, not southerners. The population center of the state is more in the north, St Louis and Kansas City. They would be more competitive in football in the B1G.
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Plus, to get into the B1G, UConn needs a partner as it is doubtful that the B1G wants to have uneven numbers again. The ACC and XII appear to be standing pat with a GOR in place (though, I do wonder if the XII would let WV go to either the ACC or the SEC if the XII cannot/will not add a local travel partner for them and then replace them with BYU or someone else). Thus, a SEC school or non P5 school would be the B1G’s only choice. Cincy has no chance due to Ohio State and USF and those out West make no geographic (nor academic) sense. Missouri would thus be a logical choice for the reasons noted above.
I was counting NY and the entire NE region for those 3 schools to arrive at the ~50% (since that was the original comment), not just in-state.
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I won't oppose as a condition to UConn's entry into the Big Ten, Cincy must be invited to the Big 12.
But seriously, I'm sure your school, alumni, and fanbase probably look to the ACC (maybe Big 12) as UConn does to the Big Ten. It looks like you're doing everything you can to get your seat at the table (especially Tuberville hire and Nippert renovations). The greeting card stuff is a little awkward, but better to go down swinging than turn tail and run.
But seriously, I'm sure your school, alumni, and fanbase probably look to the ACC (maybe Big 12) as UConn does to the Big Ten. It looks like you're doing everything you can to get your seat at the table (especially Tuberville hire and Nippert renovations). The greeting card stuff is a little awkward, but better to go down swinging than turn tail and run.
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Yup...Cincy will never join the B1G for two reasons: Ohio State would never allow it and also, it doesn't give the B1G a new market.
Cincy's best chance is for the ACC to lose a team or two (that GOR isn't actually "in place" like people think) or for the B12 to lose a team or two. The great news is with talks that the B1G is expanding and also the Pac12 isn't totally done there will be some spots that open up....for both UC and UCONN.
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Of the two I'd rather join the ACC...it's just a better fit, and esp with one of our biggest rivals (UofL) now in that conference. The B12 would just be a bad fit for us...but I'd take it, don't get me wrong. The ACC is better because we could compete right away in football whereas in our fb in the B12 would be middling at best (see wva). I also like the ACC for hoops because Cronin recruits NY and it's just a better fit for us.
Again, I'm sure you all are saying the same thing...i don't give a rats as long as we end up back at the adult table at thanksgiving dinner...
Recruiting is a negative now, but it can become a neutral factor with continued growth in northeast high school football, similar to what has recently been underway in Connecticut and occurred in New Jersey decades ago.
Here are the sources of NFL players. The northeast doesn't do too badly:
There are athletes here. They typically need more development than southern players, who are more advanced coming in to college. But you have 5 years in football; the upperclassmen in the north can compete with upperclassmen in the south.
The reason recruiting can become a neutral factor, even though there is a lack of football culture up here causing us to lose some of the athletes, is that there is a higher density of athletes per local university than in the south. New England and New York have 34 million people and 3 BCS schools, 11 million people per school. Michigan has 10 million people and 2 BCS schools, 5 million people per school. Alabama has 4.8 million people and 2 BCS schools, 2.4 million per school. The pool of genetically gifted high level athletes is higher per school in the northeast.
Our trouble is that many of them don't go into football and many of those who do don't play it long enough to develop a love for the game. But, with the growth of football at the university level, we are seeing more interest at the high school level. High school coaches are learning at university clinics. Kids are attending high-level college games.
It will come. Not saying we'll ever grow football to a level where our recruiting territory is a positive. I don't think so. But it can be competitive.
I think the map is a bit misleading because it's going by place of birth and lumps metro areas instead of going by state. If you go by where they went to HS it's a different story because many of families whose players who were born in the north migrated south later.
http://www.maxpreps.com/news/J_G3Ol...ery-active-nfl-player-went-to-high-school.htm
You're right that NE has the population but I'm doubtful that a large scale culture change will ever happen. The NE was one of the original major recruiting areas from the early 1900s until the 70s w/ the Ivy powers back when they were still at competing at the top level. That has faded over time as other sports has taken hold along with urbanization and the entire region slowly turning into a pro-sports state.
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I guess it's time for the mantra - "In CR, count on nothing."
Having said that; UConn makes as much sense (or more in my opinion) as any other possible add to the B1G. (Save ND, but that won't happen since they got the ACC to dance to their tune.) I don't think this happens w/o AAU membership, however. The B1G will not sacrifice its academic reputation on the altar of football as the ACC did with the Louisville add.
We all have to agree that SH is doing her best in this regard and I think she'll pull it off. Ranking are of dubious value, but UConn is ranked in the general range as PSU, Ill, OSU and Rutgers. This would be below NW, Mich and Wisc, but ahead of a lot of B1G schools. UConn also benefits from trending higher academically consistently over the last ten years.
Having said that; UConn makes as much sense (or more in my opinion) as any other possible add to the B1G. (Save ND, but that won't happen since they got the ACC to dance to their tune.) I don't think this happens w/o AAU membership, however. The B1G will not sacrifice its academic reputation on the altar of football as the ACC did with the Louisville add.
We all have to agree that SH is doing her best in this regard and I think she'll pull it off. Ranking are of dubious value, but UConn is ranked in the general range as PSU, Ill, OSU and Rutgers. This would be below NW, Mich and Wisc, but ahead of a lot of B1G schools. UConn also benefits from trending higher academically consistently over the last ten years.
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I honestly believe that Cincy has a better shot at the ACC than UConn at this point in time due to 1) all of the political BS over the last few years between UConn and the ACC and 2) Cincy would give the ACC a foothold in a new market (Midwest) in terms of TV’s and recruiting. UConn’s likely avenue into the ACC is if the ACC suddenly fears that UConn may get indeed get an invite to the B1G and jumps first in a defensive move to protect the NYC market (like always). A UConn/Rutgers tandem with local B1G alumni from other schools would likely overwhelm the ACC’s NYC presence with Syracuse, which is a lot father away geographically than both, and ND plus their alumni base (primarily Duke).
FYI- from Times Square in NYC, it is 40 miles to Rutgers, 150 miles to UConn, and 250 miles to Syracuse (which is about the same distance as it is to Penn State).
FYI- from Times Square in NYC, it is 40 miles to Rutgers, 150 miles to UConn, and 250 miles to Syracuse (which is about the same distance as it is to Penn State).
SubbaBub
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Once again, Uconn must thread the needle to reach the CR promised land.
If the BiG is looking then they can take anyone not in the SEC if the $ is right.
They can buy out Kansas' GOR if they (I mean their cable sugar daddy) wants to pay for it. OU could be another possibility, as could VA.
There could also be a deal between two conferences to raid a third. BIG wants Kansas and OU the B12 says OK if they can get FSU and Clemson to go with Cincy and BYU to get back to 12. They (I mean their cable sugar daddies) provide the $ to make it happen.
The only good news is there are fewer teams for conference 5 (the ACC), but once again Uconn finds itself needing just enough but not too much movement.
As for the D4 movement, I am starting to get the feeling that this will be more inside baseball than transforming revolution. D4 may not have a CR component and certainty won't guarantee an invite for Uconn.
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If the BiG is looking then they can take anyone not in the SEC if the $ is right.
They can buy out Kansas' GOR if they (I mean their cable sugar daddy) wants to pay for it. OU could be another possibility, as could VA.
There could also be a deal between two conferences to raid a third. BIG wants Kansas and OU the B12 says OK if they can get FSU and Clemson to go with Cincy and BYU to get back to 12. They (I mean their cable sugar daddies) provide the $ to make it happen.
The only good news is there are fewer teams for conference 5 (the ACC), but once again Uconn finds itself needing just enough but not too much movement.
As for the D4 movement, I am starting to get the feeling that this will be more inside baseball than transforming revolution. D4 may not have a CR component and certainty won't guarantee an invite for Uconn.
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At the end of the day I'd like to see UC and UCONN get invites to the P5 or whatever it will be down the road. I think we have made investments to be there, the performance on the field has been there, the markets are there and there is no reason for it not to happen. We each bring a little something different, but we each bring something...a heck of a lot more than a lot of the "grand fathered in" P5 schools anyway.
Best wishes to you guys and us!
In the meantime we need to kick butt in the AAC and make the most of it. Go Cats!
Later fellas...thank you for the talk
Best wishes to you guys and us!
In the meantime we need to kick butt in the AAC and make the most of it. Go Cats!
Later fellas...thank you for the talk
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The Division 1 Board meets August 8th, which could throw off some "clues" regarding the D4 movement.
CTMike
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Competition at the top level. That's the key man. It disappeared for a couple of decades but its been back for a while now. That's what helps it build and thrive. I'm not saying we're going to be a Texas or Florida for recruiting, but NJ? Absolutely doable. Gotta keep working and elevating.
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Also, do not discount the fact that in addition to other sports (notably soccer, lacrosse, and hockey), schools; both high school and college, on average are better in the Northeast than the Southwest or Southwest. Thus, football down in Miami or elsewhere maybe a student’s best shot at a successful career while a student from the Northeast maybe able to find solid career options from both the athletic and angles.
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Another factor to be considered is the fact that the B1G can probably get UCONN for a half share, if they go after Missouri or another school already in the P5 they will need to pony up a full share.
A scenario never discussed is what would UCONN do if offered a half share by the B1G and a full share by the ACC? Personally I hope we would still go to the B1G.
A scenario never discussed is what would UCONN do if offered a half share by the B1G and a full share by the ACC? Personally I hope we would still go to the B1G.
Good post Conehead,
I do think Cincy gets situated in a P-5 conference. It won't be the B1G, however. More likely the Big-12 or outside shot at ACC.
IMO, UConn will be set if and when AAU membership comes for the reasons you note.
Sorry, but that is not true, with all due respect the GOR was unanimously approved and accepted in April. Technically speaking the official effective date was July 1st...signed sealed and delivered. July 2027 is the expiration date.
Mr. Wonderful
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The Big XII breakup could be the next move. At least 9 and possibly all 10 teams could find logical homes in the other four conferences.
PAC: Texas, TT, Oklahoma, Ok. St.
B1G: Kansas, either Iowa St. or UConn (if the politicians allow it)
SEC: West Virginia and Kansas St.
ACC: TCU and Baylor
It's too logical, which means it won't happen...
PAC: Texas, TT, Oklahoma, Ok. St.
B1G: Kansas, either Iowa St. or UConn (if the politicians allow it)
SEC: West Virginia and Kansas St.
ACC: TCU and Baylor
It's too logical, which means it won't happen...
Agree with your analysis on soccer, hockey, and LAX. I believe this to be a similar problem in parts of the ACC (Boston, Virignia, NC, DC). BB also impacts football recruiting in many urban areas. NYC provides many football recruits due to a very large population, but the strong presence of BB in NYC detracts from the football recruiting as many of the top athletes choose BB over football.
I also agree that football in CT would change dramatically in a positive way if Uconn was in the B1G. This change could provide a positive impact to B1G in the future. But to paraphrase the B1G, "The B1G is not in the business of expansion to make schools better, but instead in the business of expansion to add schools that make the conference better." I believe you can (and should) argue that Uconn will provide the latter. The Uconn football program and CT recruiting grounds are not stregnths, but are not complete weaknesses either. You can argue Uconn and CT have grown over the past 15 years and that additional potential exists. Or, at a minimum you can argue that Uconn has not been a leech to the BE in football and has actually put a very competitive team on the field every year and played in a BCS game. Uconn football alone likely does not make the B1G better, but as a whole package (BB, location, and academics) Uconn may very well make the B1G a better conference. Also, I have not seen this mentioned before, but does having a presence of a conference in a state impact the recruiting of students for academics to other conference schools. If so, Uconn would provide that presence for CT and nieghboring states in the NE.
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WestHartHusk
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Whether or not the GOR is in place really doesn't matter as far as school movement goes - all it means is that the conference keeps the TV rights to said team and the conference continues to pay said team. This is why the ACC also has an exit fee of $50M which adds a level of protection that the Big 12 does not have. So for instance, Kansas can move to the B1G, and keep collecting paychecks from the Big12 has the rights to their home games.
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It's never discussed because it's the equivalent of asking if I would rather sleep with Jennifer Anniston twice or Kate Upson once. The answer is yes.
The way you broke up the schools make no sense, but anyway...Big 12 breakup can still happen, but not in the timeframe for a 2016 expansion.
One of the big pieces left to be move is Texas and the future of LHN - if that sticks around past the end of the GoR I doubt there's much incentive for the Big 12 power brokers to jump ship.
I wouldn't put Uconn, BC, and Cuse football program or recruiting in the same tier as Michigan and PSU. Assuming Uconn, BC, and Cuse recruit 50% from NY/NE and Michigan and PSU recruit 37% from in-state (assume close to 50% or so if you include a neighbor state), I think you can argue that Michigan and Pennsylvania provide stronger recruiting grounds than NY/NE. This is clearly not the most scientific way to study recruiting, as PSU and Michigan likely recruit much stronger out of state than many programs and may already recruit some of the top tier talent from NY.
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fellow yarders, this has been the plan from day 1. when the big 10 added rutgers and maryland, the contingency plan all along was that uconn and hopefully uva were to soon follow. from the start, delaney has circled nyc as his ultimate goal and in no way did he think rutgers alone would get him that. the problem now is that with uva committed to the acc, the big 10 is scrambling to find a "worthy" school to partner with uconn. surely, by 2016, this will happen. more importantly, this should also help explain our administration's perceived apathy and lack of urgency, as well as our presidents long term vision. the big 10 paved a path for uconn to follow, and by doing so, an invite will soon follow. go huskies!!!!
attn: long winded bloggers.
regardless of how talented our current football team may be, this move will accomplish three things....1. it will strengthen the btn 2. it will stregthen the big 10 3. it will weaken the acc.
be done with it!
attn: long winded bloggers.
regardless of how talented our current football team may be, this move will accomplish three things....1. it will strengthen the btn 2. it will stregthen the big 10 3. it will weaken the acc.
be done with it!
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I'd rather have two shots at Jennifer Anniston, there would be too much pressure knowing you only had one shot. I'm afraid i'd crack like Tony Romo in the playoffs.
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