OT: deGROM

[BuckleyNerd]

The most amazing thing about DeGrom is he is doing this at 32. Seaver was no longer a hard thrower at 32 and Gooden was for the most part washed up at 26.

Question for anybody who currently coaches baseball, what are pitchers doing now that allows them to throw so hard? I'm assuming it's not PED's so what is it? It seems everyone is throwing 95+ and it has ruined the game. They seriously need to move the mound back a few inches. It will eventually happen and i'm not sure what they are waiting for. Foul balls and strikeout's make for boring baseball.

I think it's a combination of increased knowledge of biomechanics, as well as just a collective internalization of the fact that throwing hard is better, and that to throw hard you have to be strong. When I was growing up there was such an emphasis on throwing strikes and finesse that people discounted the fact that it was super hard to hit guys that threw gas. Strength training wasn't deemed important, outside of running poles to build up stamina in your legs (I want to smack myself in the forehead just typing this stuff) Analytics really helped to expose that fallacy, and then like another poster mentioned, places like Driveline have leveraged biomechanical analysis to increase velocity among a large number of pitchers.

 

[TheChamps990411]

It's definitely frustrating that he doesn't get wins and the Mets have wasted his talent, but I just think we're at a point where it's not going to keep him from winning more Cy Youngs or hurt his HOF case so I'm kind of over it. Which might also just be because they're in a great spot to compete for the next few years

The Mets will be interesting to watch over the next 5 years. They have an owner willing to spend and theyve got 4 extremely talented player in their farm system who look like "cant miss" talents. Yeah i know but the mets have had a great run in recent years with their farm system. We have 5 guys in our everyday lineup that are homegrown and of course deGRom is homegrown.

 

[8893]

I find it excruciating to watch dominant pitchers have to be prefect all the time to maybe have a chance at a win.

I hate to say it but I like him better than I like the Mets.

 

[TheChamps990411]

I'm a Yankees fan but I'm the furthest thing from a Mets hater, I root for the Mets over everyone outside of the Yankees, Cubs, and White Sox and the Bobby V managed Mets teams for a couple of seasons were some of my favorite baseball teams ever. I just hate seeing dominant pitcher's get let down by their team.

Yup. Im one of the few Met fans who doesnt hate the Yankees. I couldnt care less what the Yanks do unless we play them. I dont root for them to lose and i dont mind when they win. Just dont really spend time worrying about a team outside our division and league.

 

[WeAreUCONN]

The Mets will be interesting to watch over the next 5 years. They have an owner willing to spend and theyve got 4 extremely talented player in their farm system who look like "cant miss" talents. Yeah i know but the mets have had a great run in recent years with their farm system. We have 5 guys in our everyday lineup that are homegrown and of course deGRom is homegrown.

Allan, Baty, Mauricio, Alvarez and Armstrong have a chance to be good players.

 

[navery12]

The Mets will be interesting to watch over the next 5 years. They have an owner willing to spend and theyve got 4 extremely talented player in their farm system who look like "cant miss" talents. Yeah i know but the mets have had a great run in recent years with their farm system. We have 5 guys in our everyday lineup that are homegrown and of course deGRom is homegrown.

This offseason will be the first big test to see if things have changed. Conforto, Stroman, Syndergaard all hitting FA and hopefully Cohen breaks out the checkbook to keep 2 around

 

[TheChamps990411]

Allan, Baty, Mauricio, Alvarez and Armstrong have a chance to be good players.

Those might be the most talented prospects we`ve ever had in our system simultaneously. Allan, Mauricio and Alvarez are untouchables but Baty and Armstrong may get dealt at some point because they will be in high demand in any trade deadline deals that get made in the next few years.

 

[WeAreUCONN]

Those might be the most talented prospects we`ve ever had in our system simultaneously. Allan, Mauricio and Alvarez are untouchables but Baty and Armstrong may get dealt at some point because they will be in high demand in any trade deadline deals that get made in the next few years.

I stocked up on Allan, Mauricio and Alvarez cards on eBay, in the past year.

 

[WeAreUCONN]

Those might be the most talented prospects we`ve ever had in our system simultaneously. Allan, Mauricio and Alvarez are untouchables but Baty and Armstrong may get dealt at some point because they will be in high demand in any trade deadline deals that get made in the next few years.

Seems like Alvarez should be the starting catcher in 2 to 3 years. Mauricio could possibly replace McNeil at second. Third base might open up for Baty. The Mets had Allan shadowing deGROM this spring. Alvarez seems to get the highest reviews.

 

[superjohn]

Yup. Im one of the few Met fans who doesnt hate the Yankees. I couldnt care less what the Yanks do unless we play them. I dont root for them to lose and i dont mind when they win. Just dont really spend time worrying about a team outside our division and league.

I never understood it, especially from the Yankees fan perspective. I get it a little from some Mets fans because the Yankees have so much history and get more of the back page but it's still silly to me. They play in different leagues and both of their successes are good for the city and the tri-state area. I remember going to my first White Sox game and all the vendors were selling Cubs blow t-shirts, I thought that was incredibly weird...

I can understand it more with the Jets, they legit had to live in the Giants shadow having the indignity of playing all their home games at Giants stadium. My dad was a weird one, he would root for the Red Sox when the Yankees were out of it. He always said I'm a division guy, I root for whoever wins the division to win it all.

 

[TheChamps990411]

I stocked up on Allan, Mauricio and Alvarez cards on eBay, in the past year.

ive never done the card thing. I should get into it.

 

[TheChamps990411]

Seems like Alvarez should be the starting catcher in 2 to 3 years. Mauricio could possibly replace McNeil at second. Third base might open up for Baty. The Mets had Allan shadowing deGROM this spring. Alvarez seems to get the highest reviews.

Yeah. I believe the plan is McCann gives way to Alvarez. Isnt Mauricio a ss/3b? When he fills out he may be too big for 2b. He problably has the biggest potential of any of the prospects but Allan is #1 simply based on position. Hes definitely being groomed to be the next ace.

 

[navery12]

Yeah. I believe the plan is McCann gives way to Alvarez. Isnt Mauricio a ss/3b? When he fills out he may be too big for 2b. He problably has the biggest potential of any of the prospects but Allan is #1 simply based on position. Hes definitely being groomed to be the next ace.

Yes Mauricio is too big to play 2B, I think 3B is still a possibility but the plan right now seems to be moving him to the OF after signing Lindor long term

 

[WeAreUCONN]

ive never done the card thing. I should get into it.

The regular deGROM rookie auto went from 400 this off-season to 1,000$ right now. The graded ones are a lot higher. I waited too long to get one.

 

[AdamaNation]

He's an unflappable assassin. His release point on every pitch is exactly the same. He tops out at 101 mph every game now. It's a video game. 1985 Gooden and prime Pedro Martinez are the only ones I've ever seen at this unhittable level before. And it's April. He really has a chance to put an all-time historic season in the books with this start.

Thank you!!!! People often forget doc may have had the single greatest season ever as a pitcher in the modern era........on television!!!!

 

[storrsroars]

This year he finally came out and said that he wants to be in the Hall of Fame. He’s never stated that before. He’s kind of realizing how good he actually is.

He'll have his work cut out for him. DeGrom won't get close with counting stats, although he has an outside shot at 2500 Ks. He's sitting at 37.4 WAR (B-R) and would need a minimum of 60 for reasonable consideration, and really more like 70 to get in (few pitchers below 70 are in HoF). So that's 24 WAR minimum, more like 34. If he can get a couple more 8-9 WAR seasons in the bag, it's doable even if he starts declining after 35. But he'll really need to max out the next couple of seasons and go injury-free to legitimately have a chance. Also, most modern-day HoFers have 7 or more peak years over 5 WAR, deGrom has only 3 thus far. So it's certainly not a slam dunk, although the obvious comp in his case is Koufax, who did make it with similar stats, albeit in only a 12 year career. Will also note Big Unit put up 48 WAR in his age 35-38 seasons alone with 4 CYs, so there is precedent. But that is unique in MLB history.

It'll be interesting how the BBWWA views 2020, as deGrom was on his way to a 7+ WAR season.

 

[8893]

He'll have his work cut out for him. DeGrom won't get close with counting stats, although he has an outside shot at 2500 Ks. He's sitting at 37.4 WAR (B-R) and would need a minimum of 60 for reasonable consideration, and really more like 70 to get in (few pitchers below 70 are in HoF). So that's 24 WAR minimum, more like 34. If he can get a couple more 8-9 WAR seasons in the bag, it's doable even if he starts declining after 35. But he'll really need to max out the next couple of seasons and go injury-free to legitimately have a chance. Also, most modern-day HoFers have 7 or more peak years over 5 WAR, deGrom has only 3 thus far. So it's certainly not a slam dunk, although the obvious comp in his case is Koufax, who did make it with similar stats, albeit in only a 12 year career. Will also note Big Unit put up 48 WAR in his age 35-38 seasons alone with 4 CYs, so there is precedent. But that is unique in MLB history.

It'll be interesting how the BBWWA views 2020, as deGrom was on his way to a 7+ WAR season.

Lol. I think someone missed the point. deGrom is not saying that he thinks he belongs there now. He wants to perform at a level that warrants it.

 

[storrsroars]

Lol. I think someone missed the point. deGrom is not saying that he thinks he belongs there now. He wants to perform at a level that warrants it.

Who said anything remotely like that? My entire post is what he'd need to do in the future to get there.

Lol back atcha.

 

[UConnMike04]

He’s absolutely unbelievable. Haven’t seen anything like this as others have mentioned since late 90’s Pedro. I’m still stunned that he’s on my favorite team. We usually don’t luck out like this.

Speaking of luck, I wonder if he’ll have a no-hitter or perfect game in the near future. He’s that dominant that you’re almost expecting it to happen. I’m also positive if/when it happens he’ll win 1-0 and have the RBI bc he’ll drive the runner in from 2nd and the runner will be on second only bc two consecutive batters got hit by pitches.

I usually go to 8-12 games a year, can’t wait to get back to Citi. #LFGM

 

[storrsroars]

I wonder if he’ll have a no-hitter or perfect game in the near future.

When does he face the Pirates?

 

[8893]

Who said anything remotely like that? My entire post is what he'd need to do in the future to get there.

Lol back atcha.

Do you think it’s a mystery to anyone that it takes hard work over a longer period? Least of all him?

I mean knock yourself crunching all the advanced metrics you want but the point was simply that he is starting to realize that he may be good enough to do it.

This is a guy who was converted from a shortstop to a pitcher in his junior year in college and selected in the ninth round of the draft.

 

[Deepster]

Do you think it’s a mystery to anyone that it takes hard work over a longer period? Least of all him?

I mean knock yourself crunching all the advanced metrics you want but the point was simply that he is starting to realize that he may be good enough to do it.

This is a guy who was converted from a shortstop to a pitcher in his junior year in college and selected in the ninth round of the draft.

That baseball nerd can post all the BBAIp+ type numbers that he wants. If there is one pitcher in the major leagues in the fast lane headed to Cooperstown right now, it’s deGrom.

 

[UofCT]

Third pitcher ever with 14+ strikeouts in three straight starts. Most strikeouts ever through the first four starts of a season 50 and he’s still pitching. His era right now is 0.33. Of all the pitches thrown this year at 99 mph or higher by all starting pitchers. deGROM has thrown about half of them. Hes also batting .500 this year. He has five hits. No other pitcher has more than 2. He’s simply amazing.

in DeGROM’s start tonight. He’s retired 16 in a row with 15 k’s and only 99 pitches through 8 innings. He may go out for the 9th. In his last start. He became the seventh pitcher ever to strike out nine in a row.

the one run he was charged with this year. Was on a home run on a 101 mph fastball above the strike zone. Stat cast hadn’t ever tracked a home run by a pitch thrown that hard and in that area. So it was a great swing by a young Florida Marlin.

He’s the starting pitcher version of Mariano.

 

[storrsroars]

Do you think it’s a mystery to anyone that it takes hard work over a longer period? Least of all him?

I mean knock yourself crunching all the advanced metrics you want but the point was simply that he is starting to realize that he may be good enough to do it.

This is a guy who was converted from a shortstop to a pitcher in his junior year in college and selected in the ninth round of the draft.

Your point to me was:

Lol. I think someone missed the point. deGrom is not saying that he thinks he belongs there now.

And my response holds. There's really nothing to argue about here.

 

[8893]

Your point to me was:

And my response holds. There's really nothing to argue about here.

My point is that it was obviously an aspirational statement. I was surprised when you got all stats geeky on it to rain on the parade of a pretty amazing performance and a pretty cool guy to watch right now

 

[jeff99]

DeGrom is awesome, but Corbin Burnes has been equally impressive. 40 Ks and ZERO walks in 24 innings.

 

[storrsroars]

My point is that it was obviously an aspirational statement. I was surprised when you got all stats geeky on it to rain on the parade of a pretty amazing performance and a pretty cool guy to watch right now

As a long suffering former Mets fan myself for 40+ years, I'm having a hard time figuring out when the schism happened where Mets fans became the pollyannas and Yankee fans became the dark pessimists who can't have nice things. 😂

 

[McLovin]

Devils advocate... What if degrom is so good because the Mets sucked so much it forced him to focus & work even harder and unlock another level in his game?

David Cone on the Yankees broadcast always says a pitcher being in a no hitter that is a close game is easier than a blow out, because the close game forces the pitcher to focus on pitching to win and not the no hitter.

 

[Rico444]

He'll have his work cut out for him. DeGrom won't get close with counting stats, although he has an outside shot at 2500 Ks. He's sitting at 37.4 WAR (B-R) and would need a minimum of 60 for reasonable consideration, and really more like 70 to get in (few pitchers below 70 are in HoF). So that's 24 WAR minimum, more like 34. If he can get a couple more 8-9 WAR seasons in the bag, it's doable even if he starts declining after 35. But he'll really need to max out the next couple of seasons and go injury-free to legitimately have a chance. Also, most modern-day HoFers have 7 or more peak years over 5 WAR, deGrom has only 3 thus far. So it's certainly not a slam dunk, although the obvious comp in his case is Koufax, who did make it with similar stats, albeit in only a 12 year career. Will also note Big Unit put up 48 WAR in his age 35-38 seasons alone with 4 CYs, so there is precedent. But that is unique in MLB history.

It'll be interesting how the BBWWA views 2020, as deGrom was on his way to a 7+ WAR season.

I'm just going to keep enjoying watching him. I'll bet he gets in though if he can at the very least get a 3rd Cy Young. The only pitcher to be left out with 3+ Cy Young awards is, funny enough, the guy with the most: Roger Clemens (and we all know why he hasn't gotten in). Scherzer and Kershaw also aren't in, but Kershaw's a lock and Scherzer is pretty close to one too.

 

[storrsroars]

Devils advocate... What if degrom is so good because the Mets sucked so much it forced him to focus & work even harder and unlock another level in his game?

David Cone on the Yankees broadcast always says a pitcher being in a no hitter that is a close game is easier than a blow out, because the close game forces the pitcher to focus on pitching to win and not the no hitter.

deGrom has developed the key attribute for success: confidence in his stuff. He's always had it more than guys like Glasnow or Giolito (or sadly for us Bucs fans, Mitch Keller) who have amazing stuff but didn't have early success. Now he's simply at a level few reach.

As an aside, while I was looking at pitching stats, I saw that Matz is now a solid 3, potential 2 for Toronto. Did the Mets fail him, was he just not ready, or was the spotlight too grand?