Conference Re-alignment Bombshell

[btstimpy]

Are those arguing against Cincy to the ACC forgetting that Louisville is already there? That eliminates the "too far west" and "not a good enough school" arguments.

The ACC, and ESPN for obvious reasons, is very interested in adding intense ACC vs SEC rivalries for football, basketball, and baseball. Louisville brought one with Kentucky. Basketball was immediate. Football and baseball are being worked on. We shouldn't keep going back to Louisville. They aren't a choice.

Other possibilities are Tulane with LSU for the battle of the RAG, but that would would require a project. Texas with Texas A&M is one. But that is an entire can of worms. I don't think Tennessee pays attention to Memphis.

As for Cincinnati, who is their Big Ten Rival? We know they don't have one with any SEC. Maybe little ones with Louisville and Pittsburgh? Do they at least have one with Notre Dame? I'm not sure they have ever played. I think there are other options much better.

 

[traitor71]

Clemson and FSU would have Louisville, Miami, and GT with them if they wanted to vote "No". Louisville would remember their debt.

Jurich said that U of L's biggest ACC advocates during this process were Florida State (the biggest), Clemson and Syracuse.

But the times are different...football has been augmented, the conference is stable...and the absolute crushing need to improve football is no longer the primary mandate.

The main negotiating points would be divisions and scheduling...Clemson and FSU have no desire to add travel to Connecticut on top of Syracuse and Boston.

I'm not so sure on Miami. Shalala is gone and things are a lot different down here now. I think if it can be shown to be good for the league, they would be on board with it.

 

[Seaa Blue]

Cincinnati's rival is Miami, OH.?

That's a bit of a stretch. Yes, in football it's a trophy game, but Cinci has won the last 11. Strangely, where it would matter more in hockey, Cinci doesn't play Miami.

Ohio State only plays Cinci for recruiting purposes. They would throw a tantrum if the Big Ten were to consider Cinci.

Not sure if I'm making your point or countering it, but I wanted to address the "rivalry" thing.

 

[Seaa Blue]

Are those arguing against Cincy to the ACC forgetting that Louisville is already there? That eliminates the "too far west" and "not a good enough school" arguments.

Yeah, at 6 hours and 13 minutes from its closest neighbor, Virginia Tech, Louisville was uncharted territory.

Distance from Louisville to ACC schools

 

[btstimpy]

That's a bit of a stretch. Yes, in football it's a trophy game, but Cinci has won the last 11. Strangely, where it would matter more in hockey, Cinci doesn't play Miami.

Ohio State only plays Cinci for recruiting purposes. They would throw a tantrum if the Big Ten were to consider Cinci.

Not sure if I'm making your point or countering it, but I wanted to address the "rivalry" thing.

My whole point is the rivalry thing. And to a degree it is consistent with what Billy Bud is saying about teams so far away none of the local fans care.

After being involved with this Conference Realignment thing for 15 years now with the ACC, when expanding it is important to forge great regional rivals. The idea of sprawling all over the country may look good for television, but it creates match ups that bore the fans to tears. Attendance at stadiums drop, and when people in the stands suffers, the television audience looks elsewhere as well.

Right now in our conference Boston College needs a regional rival despite their former AD not thinking so. They are trying to make it Syracuse, but I think UConn would be much better for BC. I also think West Virginia is missed by Pitt, VT, and Syracuse. This is the kind of thing I'm talking about.

I don't know how things developed over time in Ohio, but for Ohio State to not have any rival within Ohio despite 7 other FBS football schools in the state is baffling. I don't know of any other example like it. Cincinnati is caught up in that, but the ACC can't solve it.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

A Florida State fan, a Virginia fan and a Notre Dame fan walk into a UConn Conference realignment bar, bartender says...

 

[Slasher]

Cincinnati and Houston aren't good fits for the ACC. Both would be taking the ACC into a region the ACC knows little about, and neither would bring a rivalry with an existing ACC school or another P5 school. Cincinnati's rival is Miami, OH. The P5 in their state is Ohio State, who doesn't view Cincinnati as a rival and barely ever plays Cincinnati. Houston was a great fit for the Big XII, but that group was too dysfunctional to ever see it. Houston is way outside a region the ACC understands. To move into that region, the ACC should only do so with existing Big XII members.

The ACC should stick to Eastern Seaboard states and look for historical rivalries with existing ACC members or SEC/B1G members. The ACC didn't know much about the Northeast when moving into it, but we've been in the northeast a while now learning as we go. Since the B1G doesn't allow rivalries outside the conference for November games, the ACC has done the best it can with Pitt/Penn State, but Pitt also has one with Notre Dame. The ACC already has all of the ones with the SEC along our eastern states.

So I get back to rivals with existing ACC members. UConn with former Big East teams, BC most obvious. West Virginia with VT, Pitt, and Syracuse. Navy with Notre Dame and older ones with Virginia and Pitt. USF in a new one with FSU/Miami. Outside of that there are Temple and East Carolina. We don't need a 5th North Carolina team, and I'm not sure who Temple's Rival is? Maybe they can have one with Rutgers?

This makes no sense. Cincinnati is nestled right between Notre Dame, Louisville, and Pittsburgh.

 

[LoyalFanCT]

What if the acc added uconn and navy or uconn and temple? Would help with the acc tv network.

 

[TerryD]

A Florida State fan, a Virginia fan and a Notre Dame fan walk into a UConn Conference realignment bar, bartender says...

Lol. Did an ND fan comment in this thread?

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Lol. Did an ND fan comment in this thread?

I'm just mainly kidding. I didn't see anyone mention ND giving up it's Independence...YET!

I kid!

 

[btstimpy]

This makes no sense. Cincinnati is nestled right between Notre Dame, Louisville, and Pittsburgh.

Cincinnati is nestled right there.

I'm just trying to figure out how a Cincinnati addition helps the ACC accomplish any of its goals and objectives.

1. Make a Channel launch more successful (i.e. most subscribers possible either through cable package or over the top direct).
2. Flip a state to an ACC state.
3. Help ACC football strength of schedule to better make CFP or basketball to better make the NCAA men's tournament.
4. Add a compelling made for TV rivalry (football or basketball) in the region.
5. Add team that ND would view as a familiar game on football schedule.

I'm having a hard time saying yes to any of the 5. For number 1 I see the heart and soul of the fans in the Cincinnati metro area wearing Ohio State football jerseys in the fall and Kentucky basketball jerseys in the winter. I don't know how to say yes to number 2 with Ohio State in Ohio. I can't see any compelling arguments for 3 or 4. With number 5 Notre Dame is so excited they played Cincinnati only once in 1900 over 116 years ago.

The ACC could add them because they are nestled right there, but I'm not sure how it helps the ACC.

 

[billybud]

You clearly have not paid much attention to how well UConn football fans can travel. How about asking first? Like smart people do.

Louisville sold 17,000 tickets to the Fiesta

UConn...3,000

 

[Fishy]

Louisville sold 17,000 tickets to the Fiesta

UConn...3,000

You don't know what you're talking about.

Again.

Isn't there another website out there than you can spend 24/7 sucking on the ACC's balls?

Go find it.

 

[auggie22]

It's not air travel as such....UConn could as well be San Francisco or Arizona with air.

It is "distance" and relevance.

Why should an FSU or Clemson desire UConn to be added to the ACC? FSU is a program who's fans are primarily in Florida, with the largest outside the state representation in Atlanta and North Carolina. We have as much to do with Connecticut as UConn has with Los Angeles. And LA is just a hop on a non stop airline from NY.

We already hear rumors that Boston College will eventually join the ACC, One of their fans in Tallahassee would be a sighting about as rare as seeing a carrier pigeon.

Would UConn fans buy rickets and come to Doak Campbell stadium in Tallahassee?

I do not think so..airplanes or not. The USF-FSU games of late have been a great fan rivalry, and they bring 'em as do we.


It is my cornball belief that conferences should be as regional as possible...that the AAC and CUSA will never feel "right" because they are what they are...a conglomeration of programs that have little relevance to each other.

If the ACC goes further northeast, it almost certainly would have to go North-South in Divisions to get some votes.

Being that it is Florida and all, I am sure there is already an adequate base of UCONN fans with rickets.

But in all seriousness, hardening back to the good old days of wcw and wwf wrestling, I have always thought that a division of north versus south would be a natural angle to create rivalries within the conference as well as animosity across divisions.

I think it would inject passion in a conference that lacks history together, in the same way that the Big Ten can capture passion with its more historic rivalries. UCONN or not, the ACC is foolish for not aligning to a north versus south organization.

 

[billybud]

Amen...regional divisions makes too much sense.

 

[auggie22]

Amen...regional divisions makes too much sense.

If Vince McMahon was the commish, he would have already had whoever is the coach of BC rip on Shoney's breakfast in a pre-gam interview, or had Boeheim poke fun at the Greensboro metropolitan area. That would be must see tv.

 

[btstimpy]

What if the acc added uconn and navy or uconn and temple? Would help with the acc tv network.

I would want all three of those on the list of candidates to be looked at and analyzed against the ACC's needs. I tried to do a little of that with Cincinnati. I don't see it, but Cincinnati should make its case. I'd put Cincinnati on the list as well as USF and UCF. I would also put West Virginia on the list. I know they aren't AAC, but they should be on the list. I would not make anything public like the Big XII did with a spectacle.

I'd stay away from Texas, Louisiana, etc. teams for now.

 

[billybud]

You don't know what you're talking about.

Again.

Isn't there another website out there than you can spend 24/7 sucking on the ACC's balls?

Go find it.

From USA Today...don't get angry at rational discussions and facts...I understand that it gores your oxe.

"That's good news for the school and bowl, which last season featured Oklahoma and Connecticut. UConn, in its first BCS game, sold about 3,000 tickets and was left with a deficit of almost $3 million from more than 14,000 unsold seats."

I was just pointing out why a team in Florida might not want a division partner in another section of the country.....BC and Cuse send a couple of hundred fans, maybe.

And, I am retired...I post on Blue Gold News, GT Hive, ShaggyTexas, Landthieves, Hineygate, Gatorbait, etc...I like football...and discuss it unemotionally and without rancor.

 

[Fishy]

No, you're trolling and, worse, you're ignorant.

Louisville hasn't played in the Fiesta Bowl since 1991, so I'm not exactly sure what the hell you're referring to with 17,000 ticket sales.

The year we went to the Fiesta, we sold 3,000 through the school and Oklahoma sold 5,000 of their allotments. The rest of the fans did what people do - they bought tickets on their own and avoided the packages that came with the official tickets.

Every school was obligated by the BCS to buy 18,000 tickets. No school in that three year period ever purchased their full allotment - not one. Not even Alabama playing for a title sold their allotment. Every single school over that three year period returned tickets. Every single school lost money on every single BCS appearance. No exceptions.

If UConn was in any way unique, it was that every conference bailed out their bowl participants by eating the loss - the Big 12 ate $1.9M for Oklahoma - while the Big East let UConn pay the tab.

And that was a bitch of a game to get to for UConn. When travel doesn't involve a $1,000 round trip plane ticket or a passport, UConn travels just fine - the school sold all 12,000 of its Car Care tickets to North Carolina and the 7,500 to the Motor City Bowl.

So blow it out of your ass.

 

[Sea Goat]

No, you're trolling and, worse, you're ignorant.

Louisville hasn't played in the Fiesta Bowl since 1991, so I'm not exactly sure what the hell you're referring to with 17,000 ticket sales.

The year we went to the Fiesta, we sold 3,000 through the school and Oklahoma sold 5,000 of their allotments. The rest of the fans did what people do - they bought tickets on their own and avoided the packages that came with the official tickets.

Every school was obligated by the BCS to buy 18,000 tickets. No school in that three year period ever purchased their full allotment - not one. Not even Alabama playing for a title sold their allotment. Every single school over that three year period returned tickets. Every single school lost money on every single BCS appearance. No exceptions.

If UConn was in any way unique, it was that every conference bailed out their bowl participants by eating the loss - the Big 12 ate $1.9M for Oklahoma - while the Big East let UConn pay the tab.

And that was a bitch of a game to get to for UConn. When travel doesn't involve a $1,000 round trip plane ticket or a passport, UConn travels just fine - the school sold all 12,000 of its Car Care tickets to North Carolina and the 7,500 to the Motor City Bowl.

So blow it out of your ass.

For sakes, Fishy - put this this -stick out of his misery. BTW, this thread sucks anyways. Second motion to terminate this thread - any seconds?

 

[FfldCntyFan]

2. Flip a state to an ACC state.

Out of curiosity, what state has the ACC flipped?

 

[btstimpy]

Out of curiosity, what state has the ACC flipped?

In recent moves New York. In past Massachusetts and Virginia. No P5 competition in any of these.

New possibilities Connecticut and West Virginia.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Prior to being an ACC state, where would you say that state's allegiance leaned?

 

[btstimpy]

Prior to being an ACC state, where would you say that state's allegiance leaned?

Every one of the ones I mention were Big East football conference with the exception of Virginia which was shared by ACC and Big East.

West Virginia is now Big XII, and Connecticut is with the former Big East Football Conference.

Adding a Temple, Cincinnati, USF, UCF, or Navy won't be able to say yes to that point. Each would need to add in other areas.

 

[Slasher]

Cincinnati is nestled right there.

I'm just trying to figure out how a Cincinnati addition helps the ACC accomplish any of its goals and objectives.

1. Make a Channel launch more successful (i.e. most subscribers possible either through cable package or over the top direct).
2. Flip a state to an ACC state.
3. Help ACC football strength of schedule to better make CFP or basketball to better make the NCAA men's tournament.
4. Add a compelling made for TV rivalry (football or basketball) in the region.
5. Add team that ND would view as a familiar game on football schedule.

I'm having a hard time saying yes to any of the 5. For number 1 I see the heart and soul of the fans in the Cincinnati metro area wearing Ohio State football jerseys in the fall and Kentucky basketball jerseys in the winter. I don't know how to say yes to number 2 with Ohio State in Ohio. I can't see any compelling arguments for 3 or 4. With number 5 Notre Dame is so excited they played Cincinnati only once in 1900 over 116 years ago.

The ACC could add them because they are nestled right there, but I'm not sure how it helps the ACC.

1. That's just a numbers game. There's about 2.1M people in the Cincy metro area. Not sure how many cable boxes. There's rumors that Cincy/Dayton are going to be merging soon for media markets for ~3M people which would be the 18th biggest media market in the US.

2. Ohio State is king of the state, but not of Cincinnati. But for the state as a whole, no, there's no way to "flip" Ohio from the Big 12. Not that Louisville flipped a much smaller KY to the ACC.

3. Cincy had a down 2016 in football, but is 86-43 since 2007 with 5 conference championships (2 outright). On the basketball front Cincinnati has been to seven straight NCAA tournaments (6th longest active streak), only North Carolina (also 7) in the ACC has a streak that matches. Also have 31 overall appearances (16th overall).

4. Not sure it's "made for TV" but Cincinnati and Louisville have shared conference four times (Missouri Valley - 1964 - 1970, Metro - 1975-1991, C-USA - 1995-2005, Big East - 2005-2013). They've met 99 times in basketball. They've met 53 times in football, and their battle is for the "Keg of Nails."

5. Doesn't fit there at all. No history between the two other than Notre Dame hiring Brian Kelly.

 

[btstimpy]

1. That's just a numbers game. There's about 2.1M people in the Cincy metro area. Not sure how many cable boxes. There's rumors that Cincy/Dayton are going to be merging soon for media markets for ~3M people which would be the 18th biggest media market in the US.

2. Ohio State is king of the state, but not of Cincinnati. But for the state as a whole, no, there's no way to "flip" Ohio from the Big 12. Not that Louisville flipped a much smaller KY to the ACC.

3. Cincy had a down 2016 in football, but is 86-43 since 2007 with 5 conference championships (2 outright). On the basketball front Cincinnati has been to seven straight NCAA tournaments (6th longest active streak), only North Carolina (also 7) in the ACC has a streak that matches. Also have 31 overall appearances (16th overall).

4. Not sure it's "made for TV" but Cincinnati and Louisville have shared conference four times (Missouri Valley - 1964 - 1970, Metro - 1975-1991, C-USA - 1995-2005, Big East - 2005-2013). They've met 99 times in basketball. They've met 53 times in football, and their battle is for the "Keg of Nails."

5. Doesn't fit there at all. No history between the two other than Notre Dame hiring Brian Kelly.

Ok. That's the case Cincinnati would need to make, and especially number 1. These are what are important to the ACC right now. An annual UC-OSU rivalry football game and basketball game would help a lot too if OSU would do it.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Cincinnati is nestled right there.

I'm just trying to figure out how a Cincinnati addition helps the ACC accomplish any of its goals and objectives.

1. Make a Channel launch more successful (i.e. most subscribers possible either through cable package or over the top direct).
2. Flip a state to an ACC state.
3. Help ACC football strength of schedule to better make CFP or basketball to better make the NCAA men's tournament.
4. Add a compelling made for TV rivalry (football or basketball) in the region.
5. Add team that ND would view as a familiar game on football schedule.

I'm having a hard time saying yes to any of the 5. For number 1 I see the heart and soul of the fans in the Cincinnati metro area wearing Ohio State football jerseys in the fall and Kentucky basketball jerseys in the winter. I don't know how to say yes to number 2 with Ohio State in Ohio. I can't see any compelling arguments for 3 or 4. With number 5 Notre Dame is so excited they played Cincinnati only once in 1900 over 116 years ago.

The ACC could add them because they are nestled right there, but I'm not sure how it helps the ACC.

Cincinnati is a tough market because it has so many P5 and MAC schools nearby. It's closer to Indianapolis and Louisville than to Columbus (but is almost equidistant from and surrounded by all of them). Lexington is closer still. Bloomington is close. You are not gaining much territory with Cinci, and that territory is very hard fought. The only school in the G5 that flips a state or major market is UConn. Every other school has existing P5 competition in its market, including BYU (Utah dominates SLC).

I do think UConn helps the ACC, even by itself. But until there is pressure on ESPN that it might lose UConn from its bargain basement catalog of teams, nothing will happen. I still believe that is what the constant Big East rumors are all about. There is a reasonable chance that once the American conference contract is being renegotiated, UConn will talk to Fox and to ESPN, and say "what can you do for me?"

 

[btstimpy]

Cincinnati is a tough market because it has so many P5 and MAC schools nearby. It's closer to Indianapolis and Louisville than to Columbus (but is almost equidistant from and surrounded by all of them). Lexington is closer still. Bloomington is close. You are not gaining much territory with Cinci, and that territory is very hard fought. The only school in the G5 that flips a state or major market is UConn. Every other school has existing P5 competition in its market, including BYU (Utah dominates SLC).

I do think UConn helps the ACC, even by itself. But until there is pressure on ESPN that it might lose UConn from its bargain basement catalog of teams, nothing will happen. I still believe that is what the constant Big East rumors are all about. There is a reasonable chance that once the American conference contract is being renegotiated, UConn will talk to Fox and to ESPN, and say "what can you do for me?"

I agree with you about that Indiana/Ohio territory. The ACC is totally unfamiliar. It's basically heart of the Big Ten territory. It would be like the Big Ten adding ECU. Sort of futile to get any traction.

UConn is the only G5 on the east that flips a state. There are some in the Mountain West, but they are not on any ACC radar. The more I've been thinking about this the past 3 days I like the UConn-USF combination. The ACC would want UConn and BC to build some excitement in the New England region along with Syracuse. USF solves the travel complaints of the southern members in Florida. Miami and FSU already know USF and play them. The rest of the league including ND want to be playing more games in Florida. I'd put UConn in the Coastal Division and put USF in the Atlantic Division as a step toward the more regional PODS. The ACC gets to 16 for more reasonable scheduling. We leave ND alone in the arrangement for a long time. The AAC would backfill with UMass-Amherst and FIU in Miami.

The next question would be for ESPN to ask how much that is worth.

 

[Slasher]

I agree with you about that Indiana/Ohio territory. The ACC is totally unfamiliar. It's basically heart of the Big Ten territory. It would be like the Big Ten adding ECU. Sort of futile to get any traction.

UConn is the only G5 on the east that flips a state. There are some in the Mountain West, but they are not on any ACC radar. The more I've been thinking about this the past 3 days I like the UConn-USF combination. The ACC would want UConn and BC to build some excitement in the New England region along with Syracuse. USF solves the travel complaints of the southern members in Florida. Miami and FSU already know USF and play them. The rest of the league including ND want to be playing more games in Florida. I'd put UConn in the Coastal Division and put USF in the Atlantic Division as a step toward the more regional PODS. The ACC gets to 16 for more reasonable scheduling. We leave ND alone in the arrangement for a long time. The AAC would backfill with UMass-Amherst and FIU in Miami.

The next question would be for ESPN to ask how much that is worth.

Don't see how FSU/Miami agree to a third Florida team. ACC already has reach in the Tampa/Orlando area.

 

[weyuo]

The question that needs answering is what has to happen for the SEC and/or the B1G to expand which undoubtedly will result in the ACC getting poached and opening the door for a UConn invite. It looks as if college TV money is going to be on the decline(recent news about ESPN layoffs and profit losses) so why would either conference want to divide up their share with more members? If I'm wrong about the TV money aspect please show me evidence.

The only other way I can see the ACC considering an expansion with UConn included would be a huge improvement in the Husky football product. That has been the biggest obstacle during the last few re alignments.

Until either happen make the best of what you do have(AAC), improve the over all product and pray Aresco can negotiate a more lucrative TV deal which I believe comes up in 3 years(2020, but there was some talk of a renegotiation in 2018 when Navy TV merges with the AAC).