Collier v Ionescu | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Collier v Ionescu

NPOY: Collier vs Ionescu

  • Pheesa

  • Sabrina

Results are only viewable after voting.
bbballfan23 said:
The NPOY award has turned into a two-horse race between Pheesa & Sabrina. No disrespect to any other candidates but I think it's become clear. I wanted to do a little more digging and here's something interesting I found.

PER (Player Efficiency Rating) is the primary equation used to judge who the best player in the NBA is. 7 of the last 8 MVPs led the league in PER. Steph was the exception in 2014/15 when he finished 3rd in PER. He finished behind Anthony Davis & Russell Westbrook (their teams finished 8th & 9th in the Western Conference). I included this because I know we will get some Anigwe or Gustafson arguments derstandbut they aren't on true contenders.

I used this equation for those wondering how I got to these numbers. Cracking the Code: How to Calculate Hollinger's PER Without All the Mess

2018/2019 Season
  1. Pheesa- 30.8 PER
  2. Sabrina- 25.9 PER
  3. Durr- 23.2 PER
Past Winners
  • A'ja Wilson- 33.2 PER
  • Plum- 32.1 PER (Collier had 35.6 PER that year)
  • Stewie 2016- 36.8 PER (THIS IS CRAZY!)
  • Stewie 2015- 30.4 PER
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I like your attempt at "PER", but like Hollinger's it seems flawed. It doesn't make sense to me that a steal or a block, or even an assist or rebound, is weighted lower than scoring a basket.
 
I love Pheesa's game, she is awesome. But having watched Sabrina's performance in the last 2 games vs Stanford and Oregon State, I don't think I've seen a better guard in WCBB since Sue Bird. That should tell you where my vote goes.
 
LoTrader said:
I love Pheesa's game, she is awesome. But having watched Sabrina's performance in the last 2 games vs Stanford and Oregon State, I don't think I've seen a better guard in WCBB since Sue Bird. That should tell you where my vote goes.
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Her stats would not be so impressive if she played in the AAC. Hahaaa.
 
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LoTrader said:
I love Pheesa's game, she is awesome. But having watched Sabrina's performance in the last 2 games vs Stanford and Oregon State, I don't think I've seen a better guard in WCBB since Sue Bird. That should tell you where my vote goes.
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Better than Diana?
 
Two great players with some different skills. POY is fun topic but so what? The only criteria should be who makes your team good enough to contend against the best.
 
When is the vote? Before or after the NCAA tournament.
In a year with some balance at the top, I think it depends how far the players’ teams get and also how well the players do in the big spots.
I like the progress UConn is making and I think Phees has had a lot to do with that. We’ve hit a wall the last 2 Final Fours. Oregon hasn’t taken the next step.
IMO a player of the year leads their teams in these situations.
 
Megan Gustafson isn’t just good; she is UConn good. She checks every box Geno has espoused. Does anyone really believe that Megan in the post for the Huskies this season wouldn’t have made UConn a much better team?
 
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BigBird said:
Megan Gustafson isn’t just good; she is UConn good. She checks every box Geno has espoused. Does anyone really believe that Megan in the post for the Huskies this season wouldn’t have made UConn a much better team?
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I don't understand. She plays for Iowa. What's UConn got to do with Gustafson?
There are a ton of players out there that could play for Geno.
Of course, if we had a top 10 player added to the roster, we would be better, especially a big.
Maybe we could play the game: does the player of the year make everyone else around them better? Comparisons there? Is Iowa still a pretty average team with a possible POY?
Measuring stick of all time- Larry Bird at Indiana State- he had Carl Nicks and a couple of intramural players with him and they went to the NCAA finals. Gustafson? Not so much.
 
My point, in case it was missed, is that Megan was recognized as a top high school player in Wisconsin, but wasn’t one of those players with major media buzz and “five stars” within WCBB. There is, perhaps, a tendency for the BY to mutter “who?” when players like her emerge and develop. But some of the less-ballyhooed athletes really are good enough to potentially help UConn greatly, and my hope is that Geno and his staff can FIND and SIGN them. And while the Big 10 isn’t the strongest conference for WBB, it is definitely among the most physical. That the Huskies could use a little more muscle in the post should, by now, be fairly apparent.
 
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Remember that Plum took UW to the Final Four her junior year, which was a YUGE surprise. That gave her tremendous momentum going into her senior year.

Similarly, before Ionescu, UO was a bottom-half-of-the-Pac team, and she led the Ducks to two Elite Eights and national relevance her first two years. Awards like this don't usually go to the objectively best player, they go to the player that has had the greatest impact, and Sabrina has taken an also-ran to national relevance. If UO makes the Final Four, SI will be POY, period.
 
bennyskid said:
... Awards like this don't usually go to the objectively best player, they go to the player that has had the greatest impact, and Sabrina has taken an also-ran to national relevance. If UO makes the Final Four, SI will be POY, period.
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It’s not a lock, but I’d bet you’re right. The only limiting factor, IMHO, is that playing more of her games in the PST zone and on a weak TV network, fewer people have actually seen her game.
 
BigBird said:
Megan Gustafson isn’t just good; she is UConn good. She checks every box Geno has espoused. Does anyone really believe that Megan in the post for the Huskies this season wouldn’t have made UConn a much better team?
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Better team? Of course. Much better? Not sure about that.

She would clog up the lane & that would take away from Collier & add another non 3 point threat to the lineup. Not sure she would be able to keep up with how we want to run in transition. She can block some shots but I’ve seen a few of her games, defense isn’t her strong suit.

Depth & height would help but she wouldn’t guarantee us a championship by any means. I’d rather have 10-15 other players for our style of play.
 
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bennyskid said:
Awards like this don't usually go to the objectively best player, they go to the player that has had the greatest impact, and Sabrina has taken an also-ran to national relevance. If UO makes the Final Four, SI will be POY, period.
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I think Ionescu will get POY in any case, but it won’t be because she takes UO to the FF. That AA and POY stuff is all decided before the NCAA tournament.
 
bennyskid said:
Remember that Plum took UW to the Final Four her junior year, which was a YUGE surprise. That gave her tremendous momentum going into her senior year.

Similarly, before Ionescu, UO was a bottom-half-of-the-Pac team, and she led the Ducks to two Elite Eights and national relevance her first two years. Awards like this don't usually go to the objectively best player, they go to the player that has had the greatest impact, and Sabrina has taken an also-ran to national relevance. If UO makes the Final Four, SI will be POY, period.
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The voting is taken before the Final Four and is, in fact, announced at the Final Four before the games begin.
 
bbballfan23 said:
Better team? Of course. Much better? Not sure about that.

She would clog up the lane & that would take away from Collier & add another non 3 point threat to the lineup. Not sure she would be able to keep up with how we want to run in transition. She can block some shots but I’ve seen a few of her games, defense isn’t her strong suit.

Depth & height would help but she wouldn’t guarantee us a championship by any means. I’d rather have 10-15 other players for our style of play.
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If your perspective is based on seeing her play, then so be it. I can respect a difference in opinion. Having often seen her play, I’d say she is a very good defender, and she runs quite well for a big. As to scoring, the numbers don’t lie.
 
I think they're almost dead even, but Pheesa always looks good doing what she does. Sabrina, while effective, is decidedly inelegant. I'll take Pheesa.
 
FanHam said:
I think they're almost dead even, but Pheesa always looks good doing what she does. Sabrina, while effective, is decidedly inelegant. I'll take Pheesa.
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Not sure about elegance but if we’re talking about style points, Ionescu often has loud games. Napheesa will drop 25 & 12 and does it so quietly. This doesn’t help her cause. You just pretty much know you’re getting 20 & 10 that you get numb to it. With Ionescu you’re countinb how far she is away from a triple double.
 
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BigBird said:
If your perspective is based on seeing her play, then so be it. I can respect a difference in opinion. Having often seen her play, I’d say she is a very good defender, and she runs quite well for a big. As to scoring, the numbers don’t lie.
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I’ve only seen her three times but I know Notre Dame bigs were getting whatever they want in the half court against her.
 
Anyone want to know how good these two are? Collier was on the early Dawn USA squad and Ionescu was the last guard cut (I think). I see it as a near dead heat.
 
I thoroughly enjoy watching both players on the court. Pheesa floats on air. Sabrina is a magician.

Overall basketball skills, I see Sabrina having the edge, Heart, a dead heat. Best Motor, dead heat. Taking over a game (like Jordan or Bird-Sue or Larry), Sabrina gets the edge. Player who you want to have the ball in their hands with 10 seconds left in the game needing a bucket--Sabrina. I cannot envision how Sabrina doesn't win POY solely on who is the best WCBB player.
 
LoTrader said:
Good question. Sabrina plays with a Diana attitude, and the amazing skill of Sue Bird. Sabrina is a generational player.
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Love your analysis and perspective. I can’t stay up late enough to watch Sabrina and the Pac12 network doesn’t exist.
Diana? Diana? GOAT. Sabrina? You’ve gone too far. Watch out, you’ll lose your credibility.
Diana glides. Sabrina’s stuck to the ground. Diana’s other-worldly, majestic. Sabrina’s lunch pail good.
 
Maybe another way to approach his is to ask: If I am a wbb coach with the opportunity to choose one current player as the foundation for my team, whom would it be? Pheesa has been my favorite UCONN player of the post-Stewie years, and there is no other player whose play (or personality and values) I admire more, but from this perspective it seems to me that it would be difficult not to pick Ionescu. She's not Diana, but I think she's the closest thing since.
 
MD#12Fan said:
Love your analysis and perspective. I can’t stay up late enough to watch Sabrina and the Pac12 network doesn’t exist.
Diana? Diana? GOAT. Sabrina? You’ve gone too far. Watch out, you’ll lose your credibility.
Diana glides. Sabrina’s stuck to the ground. Diana’s other-worldly, majestic. Sabrina’s lunch pail good.
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When you get the chance to watch Sabrina a bit more often, you'll see she could put a round ball or a lunch pail through the rim. How she does it (glide or sticking to the ground) is style points. What she does, is what matters. And, my "Diana" comment was purely that Sabrina plays with a Diana attitude.
 
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