Collier v Ionescu

[LoTrader]

That's if you equate a rebound or a block as equal to an assist. Numbers are an advantage for Ionescu IMO when you factor in the value of her assists as well as her overall impact on the offensive end. Numbers wise it's:
Ionescu: 19.3 ppg, 8.0 assists, 7.2 rebounds, 1.5 steals, 2.5 turnovers, 0.2 blocks, 45.5% FG, 44.7% 3pt, 87.5% FT

Collier: 19.8 ppg, 10.2 rpg, 3.8 assists, 1.5 blocks, 1.4 steals, 1.8 turnovers, 61.2% FG, 22.7% 3pt, 68% FT.

Then you have to look at players like Durr, Ogunbowale, and McCowan, all of whom have POY worthy numbers as well and are on top teams. It's far from a 2 man race at this point, there are a lot of great players having fantastic seasons right now.

Most on here want Collier to win, which is understandable, but my guess is that across women's basketball most believe Ionescu is the deserving winner if the season ended today. She has been magnificent in big games, her all around stats are off the charts, and she's the best in the nation with the ball in her hands.


Side note--I think UCONN matches up very favorably with Oregon State. UCONN's weakness is size inside, and Oregon State relies heavily on perimeter scoring and 3pt shooters. A more dangerous team is one that is going to dominate the glass and has a big offensive presence inside.

That is interesting...I happen to think OSU would match up well with UCONN? Maybe it will play out this way come tournament time. I think it would be a very good game. Would love to see it happen.

 

[Bigboote]

I wouldn't trade Collier for Ionescu if I'm Geno. I wouldn't trade Ionescu for Collier if I'm Kelly. If I'm building up a team from the bottom, I'm not sure which I'd pick. They're both really good, versatile players to build around. They're both glue players. I'm glad I don't have to vote.

 

[Rsna]

Why are U talking about Oregon’s pt guard and claiming Oregon State would be a good matchup for Ucon

 

[Grad1990]

That's if you equate a rebound or a block as equal to an assist.

This has the potential for an argument that neither of is going to win. That said....

.....vs. an assist; I would put a greater value on either a block or a steal because it is potentially a 4 to a 6 point play. In addition, it puts a team on defense without the benefit of a full script to defend what's coming next. Blocks and steals have the potential to change the outcome of games more than do assists. You never hear about game changing/ending assists....but blocks and steals? Yes.

Ultimately....there is an intangible that is hard to measure or quantify....but arguing that an assist is the more valuable is at best a difficult case to make; at worst impossible. Mainly, because it is easy to prove it isn't always true.

 

[Grad1990]

Then you have to look at players like Durr, Ogunbowale, and McCowan, all of whom have POY worthy numbers as well and are on top teams.

The player with the best overall stats is Megan Gustafson. In fact, its not even close.

Next would be McGowan, followed by Pheesa and Ionescu....based on stats, Durr and AO are out of the race

 

[bballnut90]

This has the potential for an argument that neither of is going to win. That said....

.....vs. an assist; I would put a greater value on either a block or a steal because it is potentially a 4 to a 6 point play. In addition, it puts a team on defense without the benefit of a full script to defend what's coming next. Blocks and steals have the potential to change the outcome of games more than do assists. You never hear about game changing/ending assists....but blocks and steals? Yes.

Ultimately....there is an intangible that is hard to measure or quantify....but arguing that an assist is the more valuable is at best a difficult case to make; at worst impossible. Mainly, because it is easy to prove it isn't always true.

Fair enough, I just don't think adding up PRASB-Turnovers to generate a number is a good way to evaluate POY candidates. If you do that, players like Bird, Taurasi, and Stewart wouldn't have won some of their POY awards. Those stats also generally favor forwards/centers because they're more likely to grab rebounds playing closer to the basket than guards.

 

[bbballfan23]

It’s definitely a 2 person race if you listen to any talking head or read articles on it. Not sure why people on here really think McCowan, Arike, Durr have a chance?? Gustafson has the most impressive stats but no one really takes her seriously to win POY because her team is weak. Even Antonelli dodged the question on Twitter when asked how high Gustafson was on POY lost. She said, “A top 10 player on everyone’s watch list & pick for Big 10 POY & AA.” Basically, she’s great & AA but not POY material.

 

[Grad1990]

I just don't think adding up PRASB-Turnovers to generate a number is a good way to evaluate POY candidates..

I completely agree.

Frankly, In substance, I don't know how you choose one over the other. That said, I do believe they will give it to Sabrina because of the triple double eye candy.

 

[eebmg]

I admit Ionescu's subpar game against OSU on ESPN may have dinged her a little but if she leads her team and dominates play without Hebard to the PAC12 championship, that would seal the deal. Pheesa has no more high visibility games to push the needle

 

[HuskylnSC]

Watched the Ducks v beavers game the other night and paid special attention to Sabrina. Nice player and would love to have her at UConn. However I was disappointed in her game that night. I was disappointed to see that she did not seem able to go to her right (also disappointed that beavers did not overplay the left). Almost all of her scoring was drives down the left side of the lane. Also felt most of her rebounds were achieved by using her great motor to run down long rebounds and not too many were the aggressive inside rebounds that I like to see from a player. She did lead her team back to the lead with numerous left hand drives, but at the final crunch she came up empty with missed shots and a costly turnover. I saw nothing from either team that would give me cause for concern. Granted it was one game, but I expected more.

 

[Zanzman]

It’s a little harder for a guard to be under the hoop rebounding Which makes her rebounding numbers a little more impressive

 

[bbballfan23]

I admit Ionescu's subpar game against OSU on ESPN may have dinged her a little but if she leads her team and dominates play without Hebard to the PAC12 championship, that would seal the deal. Pheesa has no more high visibility games to push the needle

They actually play on ESPN two more times. Last game ba USF & their conference tournament championship.

 

[Undercovervol]

Maybe another way to approach his is to ask: If I am a wbb coach with the opportunity to choose one current player as the foundation for my team, whom would it be? Pheesa has been my favorite UCONN player of the post-Stewie years, and there is no other player whose play (or personality and values) I admire more, but from this perspective it seems to me that it would be difficult not to pick Ionescu. She's not Diana, but I think she's the closest thing since.

Pheesa has also been my favorite UConn player post Stewart. Her sophomore season was unbelievable. That being said, I agree with the other posters who compare Sabrina to Taurasi. She’s the closest thing to her I’ve seen (Maya plays a different position). Sabrina has every shot available to her, from 3 point to pull up.

 

[wallman]

I don't normally do this as I think the awards are pointless but I am going with Gustafson. Her stats are off the charts, she doesn't have great players around her, she keeps putting up these numbers. This award has nothing to do with the next level it is simply 1 years performance and hers has been one for the ages.

 

[eebmg]

I admit Ionescu's subpar game against OSU on ESPN may have dinged her a little but if she leads her team and dominates play without Hebard to the PAC12 championship, that would seal the deal. Pheesa has no more high visibility games to push the needle

They actually play on ESPN two more times. Last game ba USF & their conference tournament championship.

I admit my language was misleading. By high visability, I just meant important / competitive. Just being on ESPN does not make it important on it's own but I had brought up ESPN for OU vs ORST since no one outside the PAC12 world really gets a good look at her.

 

[bballnut90]

Watched the Ducks v beavers game the other night and paid special attention to Sabrina. Nice player and would love to have her at UConn. However I was disappointed in her game that night. I was disappointed to see that she did not seem able to go to her right (also disappointed that beavers did not overplay the left). Almost all of her scoring was drives down the left side of the lane. Also felt most of her rebounds were achieved by using her great motor to run down long rebounds and not too many were the aggressive inside rebounds that I like to see from a player. She did lead her team back to the lead with numerous left hand drives, but at the final crunch she came up empty with missed shots and a costly turnover. I saw nothing from either team that would give me cause for concern. Granted it was one game, but I expected more.

I'd recommend watching the Stanford game or the first OSU game, I think the consensus is the 2nd Oregon State game wasn't her best performance. In regards to rebounding, she plays on the perimeter and leads the break so she doesn't go inside battle inside for boards like forwards/centers simply because that's not where she's supposed to be on the court. Being able to read and track down longer rebounds is an underrated skill that she excels at.

 

[bballnut90]

I completely agree.

Frankly, In substance, I don't know how you choose one over the other. That said, I do believe they will give it to Sabrina because of the triple double eye candy.

Eye test is the biggest differentiator to me. Ionescu can score in so many ways and just impacts the game at a different level than anyone else.

 

[Justavisitor]

Watched the Ducks v beavers game the other night and paid special attention to Sabrina. Nice player and would love to have her at UConn. However I was disappointed in her game that night. I was disappointed to see that she did not seem able to go to her right (also disappointed that beavers did not overplay the left). Almost all of her scoring was drives down the left side of the lane. Also felt most of her rebounds were achieved by using her great motor to run down long rebounds and not too many were the aggressive inside rebounds that I like to see from a player. She did lead her team back to the lead with numerous left hand drives, but at the final crunch she came up empty with missed shots and a costly turnover. I saw nothing from either team that would give me cause for concern. Granted it was one game, but I expected more.

So true. In my opinion, she accomplishes alot due to the conference their in. The PAC is an offensive first conference and there isn't alot of defense being played, especially against the guards. There's not alot of man pressure defense and full court pressure to contend with.

 

[ricky]

Who is trader Bill taking in the draft? That is a very related question if Sabrina is coming out.

 

[FanFromMaine]

My take is that Sabrina will win the POY award and Pheese will win the FF MVP award.

But it was very discouraging to see Sabrina stick a leg out at the end of the OSU to draw a foul. This kind of “flop” has become much too common. Hopefully the refs will catch on to it as they have the other kind of flopping.

 

[bbballfan23]

My take is that Sabrina will win the POY award and Pheese will win the FF MVP award.

But it was very discouraging to see Sabrina stick a leg out at the end of the OSU to draw a foul. This kind of “flop” has become much too common. Hopefully the refs will catch on to it as they have the other kind of flopping.

I’m sure Pheesa & UConn wouldn’t mind this happening.