Collier v Ionescu

[BigBird]

Better team? Of course. Much better? Not sure about that.

She would clog up the lane & that would take away from Collier & add another non 3 point threat to the lineup. Not sure she would be able to keep up with how we want to run in transition. She can block some shots but I’ve seen a few of her games, defense isn’t her strong suit.

Depth & height would help but she wouldn’t guarantee us a championship by any means. I’d rather have 10-15 other players for our style of play.

If your perspective is based on seeing her play, then so be it. I can respect a difference in opinion. Having often seen her play, I’d say she is a very good defender, and she runs quite well for a big. As to scoring, the numbers don’t lie.

 

[FanHam]

I think they're almost dead even, but Pheesa always looks good doing what she does. Sabrina, while effective, is decidedly inelegant. I'll take Pheesa.

 

[nwhoopfan]

The award should be based on how graceful a player appears? That is just silly.

 

[bbballfan23]

I think they're almost dead even, but Pheesa always looks good doing what she does. Sabrina, while effective, is decidedly inelegant. I'll take Pheesa.

Not sure about elegance but if we’re talking about style points, Ionescu often has loud games. Napheesa will drop 25 & 12 and does it so quietly. This doesn’t help her cause. You just pretty much know you’re getting 20 & 10 that you get numb to it. With Ionescu you’re countinb how far she is away from a triple double.

 

[bbballfan23]

If your perspective is based on seeing her play, then so be it. I can respect a difference in opinion. Having often seen her play, I’d say she is a very good defender, and she runs quite well for a big. As to scoring, the numbers don’t lie.

I’ve only seen her three times but I know Notre Dame bigs were getting whatever they want in the half court against her.

 

[JordyG]

Anyone want to know how good these two are? Collier was on the early Dawn USA squad and Ionescu was the last guard cut (I think). I see it as a near dead heat.

 

[LoTrader]

I thoroughly enjoy watching both players on the court. Pheesa floats on air. Sabrina is a magician.

Overall basketball skills, I see Sabrina having the edge, Heart, a dead heat. Best Motor, dead heat. Taking over a game (like Jordan or Bird-Sue or Larry), Sabrina gets the edge. Player who you want to have the ball in their hands with 10 seconds left in the game needing a bucket--Sabrina. I cannot envision how Sabrina doesn't win POY solely on who is the best WCBB player.

 

[MD#12Fan]

Good question. Sabrina plays with a Diana attitude, and the amazing skill of Sue Bird. Sabrina is a generational player.

Love your analysis and perspective. I can’t stay up late enough to watch Sabrina and the Pac12 network doesn’t exist.
Diana? Diana? GOAT. Sabrina? You’ve gone too far. Watch out, you’ll lose your credibility.
Diana glides. Sabrina’s stuck to the ground. Diana’s other-worldly, majestic. Sabrina’s lunch pail good.

 

[jonson]

Maybe another way to approach his is to ask: If I am a wbb coach with the opportunity to choose one current player as the foundation for my team, whom would it be? Pheesa has been my favorite UCONN player of the post-Stewie years, and there is no other player whose play (or personality and values) I admire more, but from this perspective it seems to me that it would be difficult not to pick Ionescu. She's not Diana, but I think she's the closest thing since.

 

[LoTrader]

Love your analysis and perspective. I can’t stay up late enough to watch Sabrina and the Pac12 network doesn’t exist.
Diana? Diana? GOAT. Sabrina? You’ve gone too far. Watch out, you’ll lose your credibility.
Diana glides. Sabrina’s stuck to the ground. Diana’s other-worldly, majestic. Sabrina’s lunch pail good.

When you get the chance to watch Sabrina a bit more often, you'll see she could put a round ball or a lunch pail through the rim. How she does it (glide or sticking to the ground) is style points. What she does, is what matters. And, my "Diana" comment was purely that Sabrina plays with a Diana attitude.

 

[j66kicker]

If UConn was undefeated and just killing everybody Napheesa might have a chance. That's not the case. Sabrina is getting all the press (and deserves it). She's going to win it going away.

 

[bbballfan23]

If UConn was undefeated and just killing everybody Napheesa might have a chance. That's not the case. Sabrina is getting all the press (and deserves it). She's going to win it going away.

Unfortunately, you’re probably correct. If Oregon runs the table in the PAC I think it’ll conclude it. But if she has a couple tough nights & they lose....never know.

 

[DefenseBB]

Definitely not a 2 man race. Ionescu is obvious favorite right now after the Stanford game with others like McCowan, Collier, Arike, Gustafson, Durr, etc. within striking distance.

I agree it’s more than 2 but not 6. The leaders according to my stat analysis, game play against top teams are in top to bottom order are:
1. Sabrina Ionescu
2. Napheesa Collier
3. Asia Durr
4. Megan Gustafson
Distant 5th/6th are McCowan and Arike
It’s not like they are bad but team success contributes to the perception.

 

[bballnut90]

I agree it’s more than 2 but not 6. The leaders according to my stat analysis, game play against top teams are in top to bottom order are:
1. Sabrina Ionescu
2. Napheesa Collier
3. Asia Durr
4. Megan Gustafson
Distant 5th/6th are McCowan and Arike
It’s not like they are bad but team success contributes to the perception.

Realistically it's a 1 man race right now with Ionescu leading the pack and everyone chasing her. If one of the players below catches fire and Oregon/Sabrina tanks, then it's a new ballgame. The only one I just cant see winning is Gustafson.

 

[bbballfan23]

Looks like we officially have a race! Oregon loses last night as Ionescu goes 9-25 & 0-6 from 3. Whoever finishes the year strongest could very well end up winning NPOY.

 

[SCyankee]

Realistically it's a 1 man race right now with Ionescu leading the pack and everyone chasing her. If one of the players below catches fire and Oregon/Sabrina tanks, then it's a new ballgame. The only one I just cant see winning is Gustafson.

Ionescu's advantage is the position she plays. She controls the ball and the play much more. One on one against each other Pheesa dominates .

 

[bbfanLA]

The 5 POY awards are Naismith, Wooden, Wade, AP and USBWA. In 2014, Breanna Stewart won 3 of them while Sims and Ogwumike each won one. This is probably another year where there are multiple POY winners among the five awards.

 

[oldude]

The 5 POY awards are Naismith, Wooden, Wade, AP and USBWA. In 2014, Breanna Stewart won 3 of them while Sims and Ogwumike each won one. This is probably another year where there are multiple POY winners among the five awards.

Yes, but in 2016, Stewie won everything in sight.

 

[bbfanLA]

Yes, but in 2016, Stewie won everything in sight.

I think that 2014 was the last time the POY awards were split though it happened quite a few times before that.

 

[bbballfan23]

The 5 POY awards are Naismith, Wooden, Wade, AP and USBWA. In 2014, Breanna Stewart won 3 of them while Sims and Ogwumike each won one. This is probably another year where there are multiple POY winners among the five awards.

I think this is a year where there SHOULD be multiple winners. You can’t sit here and say one candidate is clearly above another, anymore.

 

[Dokey]

Collier makes everyone else’s assist total better

Or the ability of the other players, especially Crystal and Lou, to deliver the ball makes Collier better. More likely a combination of both, unselfish team play.

 

[cohenzone]

Or the ability of the other players, especially Crystal and Lou, to deliver the ball makes Collier better. More likely a combination of both, unselfish team play.

I was sort of kidding. Collier is such a steady finisher on passes that result in a barrel of assists every game.

BTY, I saw Ionescu in a high school all star game and she was easily the most impressive player on the floor. I would not have cried if she wore a UConn uniform.

 

[LoTrader]

Looks like we officially have a race! Oregon loses last night as Ionescu goes 9-25 & 0-6 from 3. Whoever finishes the year strongest could very well end up winning NPOY.

Two fantastic players, and I will be happy no matter which earns the award this year.

 

[Grad1990]

Overall basketball skills, I see Sabrina having the edge,

??? The stats don't support that conclusion. They are both better at some skills than is the other. They both make their teams better. Comparisons between the two are difficult because they play different positions. However, I do think Pheesa is the more consistent of the two, and more pro ready, while Ionescu is more dynamic. They are both going to start in the WNBA on day 1.

It's too bad that all of the talk about Ionescu's triple doubles, an overrated stat at best, will taint the POY discussions. I do think it is a two horse race and that Ionescu will very likely get it. The media loves stories and Ionescu's triple doubles check that box.

They are both great players. However, if you just take the basic stats; Points + rebounds + assists + steals + blocks - turnovers, then Pheesa has the clear advantage. The stats says that on average Pheesa contributes more to her team's output than does Ionescu.

If you divide the total by minutes played, Pheesa is substantially ahead of Ionescu. That makes the triple doubles little more than eye candy.

Congrats on Oregon State's win last night! They are going to be a very tough out in the tournament, and a team that UConn will not match up all that well with.

 

[bballnut90]

??? The stats don't support that conclusion. They are both better at some skills than is the other. They both make their teams better. Comparisons between the two are difficult because they play different positions. However, I do think Pheesa is the more consistent of the two, and more pro ready, while Ionescu is more dynamic. They are both going to start in the WNBA on day 1.

It's too bad that all of the talk about Ionescu's triple doubles, an overrated stat at best, will taint the POY discussions. I do think it is a two horse race and that Ionescu will very likely get it. The media loves stories and Ionescu's triple doubles check that box.

They are both great players. However, if you just take the basic stats; Points + rebounds + assists + steals + blocks - turnovers, then Pheesa has the clear advantage. The stats says that on average Pheesa contributes more to her team's output than does Ionescu.

If you divide the total by minutes played, Pheesa is substantially ahead of Ionescu. That makes the triple doubles little more than eye candy.

Congrats on Oregon State's win last night! They are going to be a very tough out in the tournament, and a team that UConn will not match up all that well with.

That's if you equate a rebound or a block as equal to an assist. Numbers are an advantage for Ionescu IMO when you factor in the value of her assists as well as her overall impact on the offensive end. Numbers wise it's:
Ionescu: 19.3 ppg, 8.0 assists, 7.2 rebounds, 1.5 steals, 2.5 turnovers, 0.2 blocks, 45.5% FG, 44.7% 3pt, 87.5% FT

Collier: 19.8 ppg, 10.2 rpg, 3.8 assists, 1.5 blocks, 1.4 steals, 1.8 turnovers, 61.2% FG, 22.7% 3pt, 68% FT.

Then you have to look at players like Durr, Ogunbowale, and McCowan, all of whom have POY worthy numbers as well and are on top teams. It's far from a 2 man race at this point, there are a lot of great players having fantastic seasons right now.

Most on here want Collier to win, which is understandable, but my guess is that across women's basketball most believe Ionescu is the deserving winner if the season ended today. She has been magnificent in big games, her all around stats are off the charts, and she's the best in the nation with the ball in her hands.


Side note--I think UCONN matches up very favorably with Oregon State. UCONN's weakness is size inside, and Oregon State relies heavily on perimeter scoring and 3pt shooters. A more dangerous team is one that is going to dominate the glass and has a big offensive presence inside.