College Sports Madness Preseason All-Americans

[drweo]

Orangutan, my favorite part was how they included Jordin Canada by classifying her as a G/F. Seems they had too many worthy guards and not enough forwards. Agree that KLS would have been an ideal pick as a G/F (which equals W, right?) Seems that they favored upperclassmen more than warranted. The only sophomore was FOY recipient Kristine Anigwe and that may have been because of the lack of good front court players.

I agree they were favoring upperclassmen; but this is before a single tip-off, so we'll see what this list looks like next April. I expect some (UConn) Huskies to show up on it when it is based on this year's performances.

 

[Dillon77]

uhummmmm.....clearing throat....you do know what board you are on right? The unique thing about our little group is that we enjoy hearing from the fans of other teams....your fellow ND folks are indeed a pleasure to deal with......please remember that we have every right to our well earned biases....BTW do the ND boards allow for the unfettered flow of communication between rival fans like the Boneyard does?.......curious to know that........

Charlie -- Over at McGraw's bench, a recent thread was led by a Boneyard member.
As per the Boneyard, I'm very well aware of where I am and whom I'm with (as I should because I'm now a #4 in an old man's league) on this board, but I really enjoy the WBB and WCBB contributions from any and all. When right and tight, or loosey and goosey, it's both fun and interesting.

 

[JordyG]

Achonwa? Peters? Turner has had shoulder injuries each of her first two years and still was an All-American last year. People harp on her lack of a mid-range shot (and she does need to add it) but unless you're shooting 3s it's advantageous to shoot from as close as possible. They don't need her to space the floor. She is the person they are spacing the floor *for*.

And yes ND fans are worried about getting good 4s and 5s. Patterson is more of a must-have than Walker and Westbrook in recruiting this year. And then ND needs to come back in '18 and hopefully get two more posts.

Yes, I'll give you Achonwa. But the fact remains both Peters (never) and Turner, for whatever reasons, haven't developed to their full potential. Or McBride in my opinion.

Yes, you are correct again. With ND the people spacing the floor are Muffet's outside shooters which opens up Turner for her inside game. Not the reverse. If she wants to diversify and succeed at the next level, or be more effective at her current level, that mid-range is the key. And frankly, if she had that mid-range game against Stanford the outside woes of Muffet's team would have been ameliorated.

 

[JordyG]

We'll see what Brenda does with this group. They just got back from a trip to Italy and supposedly team chemistry is excellent and the development of the six freshmen newcomers is going well.

Well Brenda's response about The UConn (and I paraphrase) that it's easy to win with that much talent should be proof in her pudding this year. For her it should be an easy peasy cakewalk.

 

[Dillon77]

On these teams....

- KLS should most certainly be one of the top 20 players. And will be.
If the writer can make PG Jordin Canada a G/F, then room could've been found for anyone who can play.

- Dark-horse thought: Hallie Thome, a 6-5" post from Michigan finished second nationally in field goal percentage (63.1) as a freshman. I saw her a few times on Big1G TV last year and was
intrigued. Rough around some edges, but nice touch, good hustle and surprisingly nimble at getting to "her spot."

Michigan could do well this year, along with Flaherty, who played ball with the dreaded "Milk Carton" Mabreys. Those three led Manasquan HS in NJ to a Tournament of Champions title.

 

[Charliebball]

Charlie -- Over at McGraw's bench, a recent thread was led by a Boneyard member.
As per the Boneyard, I'm very well aware of where I am and whom I'm with (as I should because I'm now a #4 in an old man's league) on this board, but I really enjoy the WBB and WCBB contributions from any and all. When right and tight, or loosey and goosey, it's both fun and interesting.

You are gentleman indeed!! I was aiming my "wrath" at the newest ND "combatant"

 

[Orangutan]

Yes, I'll give you Achonwa. But the fact remains both Peters (never) and Turner, for whatever reasons, haven't developed to their full potential. Or McBride in my opinion.

Yes, you are correct again. With ND the people spacing the floor are Muffet's outside shooters which opens up Turner for her inside game. Not the reverse. If she wants to diversify and succeed at the next level, or be more effective at her current level, that mid-range is the key. And frankly, if she had that mid-range game against Stanford the outside woes of Muffet's team would have been ameliorated.

Depends on what you think their potential is, I guess. Peters was the #3 pick in the draft, not bad for someone who had three knee surgeries in college and was ranked #35 out of high school.

McBride's honors - ACC Player of the Year, 1st team All-American, #3 draft pick, part of the USAB player pool. I'd hoped for more from her pro career but she's had injuries in each of her last two WNBA seasons. Probably her best pro play has happened overseas where she was big part of Orenburg's Euroleague finals run.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

Yes, I'll give you Achonwa. But the fact remains both Peters (never) and Turner, for whatever reasons, haven't developed to their full potential. Or McBride in my opinion.

Kayla McBride's high school rankings
#22 ASGR
#20 ESPN/Hoopgurlz
#20 Blue Star
#68 Dan Olson Collegiate Girls Basketball Report

Devereaux Peters's high school rankings
#31 ASGR
#35 ESPN/Hoopgurlz
#24 Blue Star
#21 Dan Olson Collegiate Girls Basketball Report

Natalie Achonwa's high school rankings
#80 ASGR
***Note that Achonwa is Canadian and not all recruiting services rank players outside the U.S.
***Also note that Achonwa did not play her senior season in high school due to her previous participation with the National Elite Development Academy (NEDA); NEDA was a national training center program that brought together the top 12 female developmental athletes from across Canada to train, live and attend high school in a central location.

WNBA Draft Position
#3 Peters (2012 WNBA Draft)
#3 McBride (2014 WNBA Draft)
#9 Achonwa (2014 WNBA Draft)
*** Note at the time of the 2014 WNBA Draft, Achonwa was out for the 2014 WNBA season, with an injury suffered in the 2014 Elite Eight

Relative to their high school rankings, I would argue that all three players improved tremendously in college.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

As for Turner, Muffet McGraw's best teams usually consist of four guards/forwards surrounding a single post, to offer excellent shooting, spacing and versatility. Though Turner can a ball-stopper and a high-usage player (but made better decisions last year, reducing total turnovers from 75 in her first year to 41 in her second), that can be forgiven because she is an incredibly efficient scorer, tough rebounder, and top-notch rim-protector. Notre Dame can always rely on her when she posts up - she is going to get a score when the team really needs one.

Remember, even Tina Charles was strictly a low block player her first few years. In her junior year, she showed off a mid-range jumper from the elbow. She also improved her free throw percentage from 57.8 percent (sophomore) to 68.1 percent (junior). It was not until her WNBA career began and developed that she turned into a 75 percent free throw shooter (her WNBA career percentage). And she did not develop her three point shot until 2016; she made 2 out of a total of 17 attempts in six seasons before shooting 35 percent from beyond the arc this year (on a solid 1.5 attempts per game).

But I agree about the next phase of Turner's game - adding a mid-range jumper. Turner shot 60.5 percent (freshman) and 63.9 percent (sophomore). The next stage is to get the free throw percentage to around 72 percent and add that elbow/foul line jumper. If she can do this, Notre Dame will be that much tougher to defend. Remember, Arike Ogunbowale is a relentless attacker who was second on the team in offensive rebounds and first in free throw attempts, despite only playing 19.3 minutes per game. Pulling Turner out will open up slashing lanes for Ogunbowale, plus likely allow players like Marina Mabrey to be open in the corners for catch-and-shoot threes.

 

[HopJim]

Your right about Mitchell. But she has done it for 2 years now. If KLS puts up 20 a game this year she will be on the list next year.

Have to agree with some of the comments. KLS was good for half the season; great the second half on offense/good on zone defense. If there was another player on another team with more proven skills, would rate her higher NOW. That is a different discussion than the high level I would forecast KLS, Nurse, and others to finish at end of year and playoffs. Some of the non-UCONN teams seem to allow more individual play versus UCONN's total team focus so at times can be difficult for those who don't watch Huskies consistently to understand each player's contribution.

 

[Decoli2]

Speaking of disappearing, is it ok to cancel the APB for the lesser Mabrey. She has not been seen since the first half of the UCONN game. Word on your street in Southbend is that another freshmen even took her minutes. Mabrey learned how to disappear from the best Irish players though: There was Skylar in FF in 2013, Jewell in 2014, Turner in first half of 2015. KLS will become a better player because she is at UCONN. Leprechauns that live in glass houses should learn to stop throwing pebbles.

With regards to Turner, this might be the classic case of a fan lacking understanding of the game plan. Muffet understood winning the game hinged on Turner. It's likely the plan was for Tuner to avoid foul trouble in the first half, which she did (0 personal fouls). When Tuner realized it was her turn to step up, she finished the game with 14 point (shooting 78 percent) and 10 rebounds. Stewart completed the game with 8 points and 15 rebounds. Averaging a double-double as a freshman in the national championship game is not chopped liver.

[Queue the mob who claims Turner only scores from 3 ft from the basket]....so would everyone else if they were that talented. It's called high percentage shots.

Little love for Aja or Turner on this board, but Geno loved them enough to recruit them heavily! Riddle me that!

 

[Charliebball]

With regards to Turner, this might be the classic case of a fan lacking understanding of the game plan. Muffet understood winning the game hinged on Turner. It's likely the plan was for Tuner to avoid foul trouble in the first half, which she did (0 personal fouls). When Tuner realized it was her turn to step up, she finished the game with 14 point (shooting 78 percent) and 10 rebounds. Stewart completed the game with 8 points and 15 rebounds. Averaging a double-double as a freshman in the national championship game is not chopped liver

Little love for Aja or Turner on this board, but Geno loved them enough to recruit them heavily! Riddle me that!

I'm sure there would be plenty of takers for both players here...................unfortunately they are viewed as being supremely talented yet incomplete players at this point in their careers.........if they played for UConn and Geno was unable to "fix" them, you would hear similar complaints from our group................

 

[Decoli2]

I'm sure there would be plenty of takers for both players here....unfortunately they are viewed as being supremely talented yet incomplete players at this point in their careers....if they played for UConn and Geno was unable to "fix" them, you would hear similar complaints from our group......

I understand, but also believe many of the same people claiming post players are incomplete recognize and praise high IQ, team-based basketball. In Notre Dame's offense, why would Brianna Turner take any shot other than at the rim? She's operating in a system where her role does not include the elbow jumper. She is surrounded by very talented shooters from the mid-range and the three point line. What fans see is not always indicative of what a player can do.

Aja Wilson, on the other hand played the high post and shot the elbow jumper last season for two reasons: SC had subpar guard play (outside of Tiffany Mitchell) and her counterpart in the post surely could not play anywhere but around the rim. I think we'll still see her at the high post this season, but believe SC's offense will change considering the addition of Gray and Davis who are both adept off the dribble.

In the same vein, those saying KLS is not supremely talented are likely in for a rude awakening this year. She was playing alongside three transcendent players - and playing her role. She will be a different player this year, as her role has changed.

 

[Kibitzer]

We don't need no steenkin' pre-season All-Americans! We got the most Badasses come crunch time!

Let the games begin. Just watch and see.

 

[wallman]

With regards to Turner, this might be the classic case of a fan lacking understanding of the game plan. Muffet understood winning the game hinged on Turner. It's likely the plan was for Tuner to avoid foul trouble in the first half, which she did (0 personal fouls). When Tuner realized it was her turn to step up, she finished the game with 14 point (shooting 78 percent) and 10 rebounds. Stewart completed the game with 8 points and 15 rebounds. Averaging a double-double as a freshman in the national championship game is not chopped liver.

[Queue the mob who claims Turner only scores from 3 ft from the basket]....so would everyone else if they were that talented. It's called high percentage shots.

Little love for Aja or Turner on this board, but Geno loved them enough to recruit them heavily! Riddle me that!

I actually like Turner over Wilson as I think Turner has a better motor than Wilson. When she played against us I thought she would kill us, UCLA, she had 14 pts and 16 rebs, did pretty well and as you say all her shots were close to the basket. Last year in the Elite 8, I watched Stanford leave her open away from the basket and take away her left in the first half and thus really negated her. Second half McCall forgot the game plan and let her get deep under the basket and she scored mostly left right near the basket.

The problem with those high % shots is that teams will leave her open away from the basket thus clogging the lanes that you talk about.

 

[Decoli2]

I actually like Turner over Wilson as I think Turner has a better motor than Wilson. When she played against us I thought she would kill us, UCLA, she had 14 pts and 16 rebs, did pretty well and as you say all her shots were close to the basket. Last year in the Elite 8, I watched Stanford leave her open away from the basket and take away her left in the first half and thus really negated her. Second half McCall forgot the game plan and let her get deep under the basket and she scored mostly left right near the basket.

The problem with those high % shots is that teams will leave her open away from the basket thus clogging the lanes that you talk about.

Turner, nor Wilson, are back to the basket players, who are usually responsible for "clogging the paint". Turner's so called easy looks are the result of an offense that is designed to provide them for her. In the game you mentioned against Stanford, Turner did resort to posting McCall up, but the post up often happened quickly (almost in transition) or by Turner cutting in from the free throw extended area. . If you watch clips, Turner is used in on-ball screens at the top of the key (pick and roll), she beats posts up the court, or she cuts in from outside the paint to get her at the rim shots. It's timing and athleticism.

PS- McCall is really underrated!

 

[CocoHusky]

With regards to Turner, this might be the classic case of a fan lacking understanding of the game plan. Muffet understood winning the game hinged on Turner. It's likely the plan was for Tuner to avoid foul trouble in the first half, which she did (0 personal fouls). When Tuner realized it was her turn to step up, she finished the game with 14 point (shooting 78 percent) and 10 rebounds. Stewart completed the game with 8 points and 15 rebounds. Averaging a double-double as a freshman in the national championship game is not chopped liver.
Queue the mob who claims Turner only scores from 3 ft from the basket]....so would everyone else if they were that talented. It's called high percentage shots.
Little love for Aja or Turner on this board, but Geno loved them enough to recruit them heavily! Riddle me that!

"I think the first half I wasn't as aggressive as I needed to be. So in the second half I just tried to come out and be aggressive."
Turner after Stanford Loss 2016.
ASAP Sports Transcripts - Basketball - 2016 - NCAA WOMEN'S REGIONAL SEMIFINALS AND FINALS: LEXINGTON - March 25 - Muffet McGraw - Brianna Turner - Lindsay Allen

“I think I wasn’t aggressive enough. I was really timid in the first half,”
Turner-2015 National Championship game.
Turner struggles in first half before bouncing back // The Observer

Brianna Turner & A'Ja Wilson get much love from me. That ends quickly when UCONN players are attacked. KLS was attacked, I'm not having it!

"Well I'm an alley cat, some say a dirty rat
On my side is my gat, see I'm all of that
Spittin' out buck shots, boy I'm gonna wet'cha
Sawed off shotgun, hand on the pump. " ​

Cypress Hill​

 

[BroadwayVa]

A quote from Holly.
On Impact Of Last Season's Elite Eight Run
"That's a great question. I think it was a major impact on us. I think you saw us turn the corner. Our leadership stepped up. I think that we saw the outcome of people leading, people listening and playing hard. I think it had a major effect on what we did this summer. It was probably one of the best summers we've had as far as dedicating to get better, doing things as a team and just all-around wanting to improve their game. This fall has been something different that we haven't seen with the togetherness. There's a feel right now with this basketball team, and I can't explain it. I think last year at times, everybody felt a little bit of disconnect. You don't feel a disconnect with this team, and that's a great thing. That starts with great leadership and people buying into the system. I think right now they are doing just that."

I\

I have a feeling that this is a do or die year for Holly. The words above if correct are fine --Holly has spoken well in the past and no major difference was seen in her team. How many years has she had beyond Pat? And Pat left players that were beyond pate'.

 

[southbendcane]

uhummmmm.....clearing throat....you do know what board you are on right? The unique thing about our little group is that we enjoy hearing from the fans of other teams....your fellow ND folks are indeed a pleasure to deal with......please remember that we have every right to our well earned biases....BTW do the ND boards allow for the unfettered flow of communication between rival fans like the Boneyard does?.......curious to know that........

Not many other teams fans come on there. I find it kind of boring. But you do get some solid information about players . But most of it i all ready know because i stay informed . To be honest i stopped posting there. Im a die hard N.D. fan in everything but football. Im a Miami Hurricane fan in football . Someone called the Miami women's team convicts and it didn't set well with me and i fired back. Once they found out i was a Miami fan and didn't like N.D. football people got nasty and i gave it right back to them and then decided i wanted no part of it. But trust me there are some people on here who want no part of N.D. fans on their board. But most are pretty solid posters.

 

[BroadwayVa]

uhummmmm.....clearing throat....you do know what board you are on right? The unique thing about our little group is that we enjoy hearing from the fans of other teams....your fellow ND folks are indeed a pleasure to deal with......please remember that we have every right to our well earned biases....BTW do the ND boards allow for the unfettered flow of communication between rival fans like the Boneyard does?.......curious to know that........

Well said!! WE all have our Team Biases ---Many of our ND fans --defend their favorites on the ND team --and do it without moaning about unfair treatment or Uconn Bias (this site is UConn WBB after all).

 

[BroadwayVa]

"I think the first half I wasn't as aggressive as I needed to be. So in the second half I just tried to come out and be aggressive."
Turner after Stanford Loss 2016.
ASAP Sports Transcripts - Basketball - 2016 - NCAA WOMEN'S REGIONAL SEMIFINALS AND FINALS: LEXINGTON - March 25 - Muffet McGraw - Brianna Turner - Lindsay Allen

“I think I wasn’t aggressive enough. I was really timid in the first half,”
Turner-2015 National Championship game.
Turner struggles in first half before bouncing back // The Observer

Brianna Turner & A'Ja Wilson get much love from me. That ends quickly when UCONN players are attacked. KLS was attacked, I'm not having it!

"Well I'm an alley cat, some say a dirty rat
On my side is my gat, see I'm all of that
Spittin' out buck shots, boy I'm gonna wet'cha
Sawed off shotgun, hand on the pump. " ​

Cypress Hill

We see a lot of these kinds of comments from BB players after the game--they usually reflect the words used towards them by the staff --probably so the Staff knows the kid got what they said---then it's the same stuff next game.​

 

[CocoHusky]

I understand, but also believe many of the same people claiming post players are incomplete recognize and praise high IQ, team-based basketball. In Notre Dame's offense, why would Brianna Turner take any shot other than at the rim? She's operating in a system where her role does not include the elbow jumper. She is surrounded by very talented shooters from the mid-range and the three point line. What fans see is not always indicative of what a player can do.

Aja Wilson, on the other hand played the high post and shot the elbow jumper last season for two reasons: SC had subpar guard play (outside of Tiffany Mitchell) and her counterpart in the post surely could not play anywhere but around the rim. I think we'll still see her at the high post this season, but believe SC's offense will change considering the addition of Gray and Davis who are both adept off the dribble.

In the same vein, those saying KLS is not supremely talented are likely in for a rude awakening this year. She was playing alongside three transcendent players - and playing her role. She will be a different player this year, as her role has changed.

Forgot to welcome you in the prior post. You are off to a great start. I disagree with your conclusion on Turner. Turner grew up as a wing slashing player and a mid range jump shot was certainly part of her arsenal prior to coming to ND. The ND offense is not what is restricting Turner from taking mid range because those shot were always available to Reimer and Westbeld.

 

[BroadwayVa]

With regards to Turner, this might be the classic case of a fan lacking understanding of the game plan. Muffet understood winning the game hinged on Turner. It's likely the plan was for Tuner to avoid foul trouble in the first half, which she did (0 personal fouls). When Tuner realized it was her turn to step up, she finished the game with 14 point (shooting 78 percent) and 10 rebounds. Stewart completed the game with 8 points and 15 rebounds. Averaging a double-double as a freshman in the national championship game is not chopped liver.

[Queue the mob who claims Turner only scores from 3 ft from the basket]....so would everyone else if they were that talented. It's called high percentage shots.

Little love for Aja or Turner on this board, but Geno loved them enough to recruit them heavily! Riddle me that!

Your last sentence----Recruiting in Div 1 is much different than when they make a team. One is potential the other is what's expected from the talent previously seen and not further developed. That's the riddle --unriddled!!

 

[BroadwayVa]

Forgot to welcome you in the prior post. You are off to a great start. I disagree with your conclusion on Turner. Turner grew up as a wing slashing player and a mid range jump shot was certainly part of her arsenal prior to coming to ND. The ND offense is not what is restricting Turner from taking mid range because those shot were always available to Reimer and Westbeld.

I thought the mid range shot of Turner was going to make her very difficult to defend. Bet your bippy (hows that for a throw back) that Geno would have used anything in her arsenal .

 

[BroadwayVa]

Charlie -- Over at McGraw's bench, a recent thread was led by a Boneyard member.
As per the Boneyard, I'm very well aware of where I am and whom I'm with (as I should because I'm now a #4 in an old man's league) on this board, but I really enjoy the WBB and WCBB contributions from any and all. When right and tight, or loosey and goosey, it's both fun and interesting.

Hal a lou ya---Hal a lou ya!!! Yea Brother I am a believer---WELL PUT.

 

[CocoHusky]

I thought the mid range shot of Turner was going to make her very difficult to defend. Bet your bippy (hows that for a throw back) that Geno would have used anything in her arsenal .

I think Muffet would also utilize everything in her Arsenal also. I personally bring it back to the player. Turner might be like Kiah Stokes who scored a ton of points in High school but got so comfortable at UCONN in the things that she thought she was good at that it was a struggle to get her out of that comfort zone. As @Decoli2 was saying: Turner's though might be "we got plenty of people on the team who can shoot mid range jumpers. I'm gonna keep blocking shots and grabing rebounds and running the floor. "

 

[malevocalist#]

Look at it like this. They didn't even pick Morgan Tuck last year. How that work out?

They pick Mo 2nd team. How that work out?

Yea keep hating.

 

[Husky pride]

Speaking of disappearing, is it ok to cancel the APB for the lesser Mabrey. She has not been seen since the first half of the UCONN game. Word on your street in Southbend is that another freshmen even took her minutes. Mabrey learned how to disappear from the best Irish players though: There was Skylar in FF in 2013, Jewell in 2014, Turner in first half of 2015. KLS will become a better player because she is at UCONN. Leprechauns that live in glass houses should learn to stop throwing pebbles.

Could anyone have said it any better?

 

[BroadwayVa]

I think Muffet would also utilize everything in her Arsenal also. I personally bring it back to the player. Turner might be like Kiah Stokes who scored a ton of points in High school but got so comfortable at UCONN in the things that she thought she was good at that it was a struggle to get her out of that comfort zone. As @Decoli2 was saying: Turner's though might be "we got plenty of people on the team who can shoot mid range jumpers. I'm gonna keep blocking shots and grabing rebounds and running the floor. "

Yea that's pretty much my take on Kiah too---But early on when she was in the post and looking for the ball--it never went in there. So if your teammates won't feed you--you find another means of contributing. That's not Turners problem. Frankly--I'll rely on people like you to let me know what are her real issues. I believe Muffet is one of the top 2 coaches in WCBB--she did wonders with Riley. Muffet usually gets the best from her talent--but I (maybe my UC bias) believe Geno gets more --it may take Geno another year to get them up to Div 1 speed but when they do--they are among the best.

 

[BroadwayVa]

Have to agree with some of the comments. KLS was good for half the season; great the second half on offense/good on zone defense. If there was another player on another team with more proven skills, would rate her higher NOW. That is a different discussion than the high level I would forecast KLS, Nurse, and others to finish at end of year and playoffs. Some of the non-UCONN teams seem to allow more individual play versus UCONN's total team focus so at times can be difficult for those who don't watch Huskies consistently to understand each player's contribution.

\

It's unfair to compare KLS with anyone else--but I'm unfair! Stewies first year was divided into 3 sections--(regular season--first half good to almost great--second half (was Stew actually on the team??)--then the last 1/3 the NCAA's and she came to life.

Katie Lou was 2 halves---First half -(a little over 1/3rd regular season) was learning and finding out --hey Dorothy this isn't kansas
Then the last --1/3 and NCAA Katie Lou became all we expected and then much much more--then she was hurt.

This coming season I believe will be a breakout season (if Katie Lou isn't thinking injury all the time, I doubt that)--she has the talent, the size, and has shown she can not only make the 3, but the top of the key jumper/hook, dribble drives, and defends well--what more do we want?? (I want Collier to do the same, she has shown she could and did.