College Sports Madness Preseason All-Americans

[Fairfield Fan]

OK, I get that you think projecting Muffet as coach of the year is ridiculous (for the reasons you cited), so which candidates are the obvious ones the writer overlooked.

Since the coach has to have won a NC in the last 15 years (one of your criteria), that narrows the field down to the following candidates:

Geno Auriemma
Kim Mulkey
Brenda Frese
Gary Blair

The only one that made the Final Four last season was Geno (another criterion of yours), so I guess we should just nominate him? Making that prediction is appropriate for a UConn fan but probably not the best for a national writer.

While I am a Notre Dame fan and thus am biased, Muffet's selection seems reasonable to me. Her teams have a recent history of making the Final Four (and beyond), her team didn't lose any players to the WNBA, and they only lost 2 games all last year. My guess is that whichever coach wins the NC next season will win coach of the year. That doesn't necessarily happen, but given the perceived parity this season, it's a reasonable assumption.

Her team has great talent, but that team didn't make it to the FF last year. So is the best coach in the country if that intact team makes the FF?

I think a coach of the year award should go to a coach whose team outperforms expectations. Perhaps a good guess would be Ohio State's coach Kevin McGuff, who will have to pull together a diverse group of freshmen, returnees and transfers in order to get to the top. If he pulls it off, coaching will be a key factor.

Perhaps Louisville's Walz, who will also have to pull together a group of young players. He has certainly outperformed for years with his players and some recruits who have surprised on the upside. If he can get to the FF or higher this year, coaching should be acknowledged.

Other possible pre-season COY's would be those at Oregon State, or South Carolina, both of which are up-and-coming programs with relatively new coaches. They would be better positioned for a guess at COY at the end of the season.

And, of course, if Coach Auriemma manages to get his team back to the FF or higher, he should definitely deserve COY. With a group that lost the top three players in the WNBA draft? Which doesn't have a bona fide star post player? Yep, no question.

 

[Charliebball]

You are a brave soul my friend. Lol..

*waits for bombs to drop*

Nah, that's OK, no bombs here................ I kind of like the idea of being the under dog for a change....... ........no UConn players on that list................Love it!!!.................it will only make the players work harder and frankly while UConn has had too many All Americans to mention, Geno has always preached the team game over individual greatness..............keep your honors, we'll take another championship..........

 

[HuskyFan1125]

This brings up a good point about COY. I believe that the coach of the year should be one who does the best with the least or exceeds the seasons expectations.

 

[Charliebball]

My grandmother could have a championship ring if she were on the same team with Stewie, Mo, and Tuck.

maybe one ring............

 

[Ozimoto]

And yet Mulkey could only win one with Brittney Griner and Sims. Geno has also won championships with far lesser talent. Last year ND lost to a Stanford team with lesser talent. This year I hope you're watching Ms. Friese who with her great recruiting class will show you how easy it is.

We'll see what Brenda does with this group. They just got back from a trip to Italy and supposedly team chemistry is excellent and the development of the six freshmen newcomers is going well.

 

[Orangutan]

Coco you're getting nasty in your old age. And every word is true. As good a coach and recruiter Muffet is, she hasn't developed a forward to their perceived potential in quite some time, especially Turner. Frankly, I think ND fans are feeling the pressure watching the really good 4's and 5's go elsewhere while The UConn is looking to reboot next year.

Achonwa? Peters? Turner has had shoulder injuries each of her first two years and still was an All-American last year. People harp on her lack of a mid-range shot (and she does need to add it) but unless you're shooting 3s it's advantageous to shoot from as close as possible. They don't need her to space the floor. She is the person they are spacing the floor *for*.

And yes ND fans are worried about getting good 4s and 5s. Patterson is more of a must-have than Walker and Westbrook in recruiting this year. And then ND needs to come back in '18 and hopefully get two more posts.

 

[Charliebball]

Either that or your a bias fan.She was matched up against average players all year. Lets see how she does being the #1 option instead of #5 ? Lets see how she does when she is drawing double teams instead of being left wide open in the corner while the big 3 did all the work? Last year and this year is like night and day. She will go from being guarded and guarding average players to going up against the best each team has to offer. She will have to show leadership and lead instead of being taught. She will have to do some dirty work and play inside against stronger players that play inside for a living when she is use to making her living on the perimeter. Last year she showed up against some of the weak conference opponents but disappeared in some of the big games. Ohio ST 2, Florida ST 0, Maryland 4, South Carolina 2. That cant happen this year. She has a lot of adjustments to make . It will be interesting to see how she handles the pressure. No doubt she can shoot. But can she become a complete player and become a team leader ?

uhummmmm...............clearing throat..............you do know what board you are on right? The unique thing about our little group is that we enjoy hearing from the fans of other teams..............your fellow ND folks are indeed a pleasure to deal with................please remember that we have every right to our well earned biases..............BTW do the ND boards allow for the unfettered flow of communication between rival fans like the Boneyard does?.................curious to know that.......................

 

[Charliebball]

We'll see what Brenda does with this group. They just got back from a trip to Italy and supposedly team chemistry is excellent and the development of the six freshmen newcomers is going well.

yes but I think tying the six freshman together with rope for a full week is a bit much...............

 

[Charliebball]

Achonwa? Peters? Turner has had shoulder injuries each of her first two years and still was an All-American last year. People harp on her lack of a mid-range shot (and she does need to add it) but unless you're shooting 3s it's advantageous to shoot from as close as possible. They don't need her to space the floor. She is the person they are spacing the floor *for*.

And yes ND fans are worried about getting good 4s and 5s. Patterson is more of a must-have than Walker and Westbrook in recruiting this year. And then ND needs to come back in '18 and hopefully get two more posts.

isn't Boley Turner with a better outside shot?

 

[Orangutan]

isn't Boley Turner with a better outside shot?

More like Westbeld with a better outside shot. Though that's not a perfect comparison.

 

[drweo]

Orangutan, my favorite part was how they included Jordin Canada by classifying her as a G/F. Seems they had too many worthy guards and not enough forwards. Agree that KLS would have been an ideal pick as a G/F (which equals W, right?) Seems that they favored upperclassmen more than warranted. The only sophomore was FOY recipient Kristine Anigwe and that may have been because of the lack of good front court players.

I agree they were favoring upperclassmen; but this is before a single tip-off, so we'll see what this list looks like next April. I expect some (UConn) Huskies to show up on it when it is based on this year's performances.

 

[Dillon77]

uhummmmm.....clearing throat....you do know what board you are on right? The unique thing about our little group is that we enjoy hearing from the fans of other teams....your fellow ND folks are indeed a pleasure to deal with......please remember that we have every right to our well earned biases....BTW do the ND boards allow for the unfettered flow of communication between rival fans like the Boneyard does?.......curious to know that........

Charlie -- Over at McGraw's bench, a recent thread was led by a Boneyard member.
As per the Boneyard, I'm very well aware of where I am and whom I'm with (as I should because I'm now a #4 in an old man's league) on this board, but I really enjoy the WBB and WCBB contributions from any and all. When right and tight, or loosey and goosey, it's both fun and interesting.

 

[JordyG]

Achonwa? Peters? Turner has had shoulder injuries each of her first two years and still was an All-American last year. People harp on her lack of a mid-range shot (and she does need to add it) but unless you're shooting 3s it's advantageous to shoot from as close as possible. They don't need her to space the floor. She is the person they are spacing the floor *for*.

And yes ND fans are worried about getting good 4s and 5s. Patterson is more of a must-have than Walker and Westbrook in recruiting this year. And then ND needs to come back in '18 and hopefully get two more posts.

Yes, I'll give you Achonwa. But the fact remains both Peters (never) and Turner, for whatever reasons, haven't developed to their full potential. Or McBride in my opinion.

Yes, you are correct again. With ND the people spacing the floor are Muffet's outside shooters which opens up Turner for her inside game. Not the reverse. If she wants to diversify and succeed at the next level, or be more effective at her current level, that mid-range is the key. And frankly, if she had that mid-range game against Stanford the outside woes of Muffet's team would have been ameliorated.

 

[JordyG]

We'll see what Brenda does with this group. They just got back from a trip to Italy and supposedly team chemistry is excellent and the development of the six freshmen newcomers is going well.

Well Brenda's response about The UConn (and I paraphrase) that it's easy to win with that much talent should be proof in her pudding this year. For her it should be an easy peasy cakewalk.

 

[Dillon77]

On these teams....

- KLS should most certainly be one of the top 20 players. And will be.
If the writer can make PG Jordin Canada a G/F, then room could've been found for anyone who can play.

- Dark-horse thought: Hallie Thome, a 6-5" post from Michigan finished second nationally in field goal percentage (63.1) as a freshman. I saw her a few times on Big1G TV last year and was
intrigued. Rough around some edges, but nice touch, good hustle and surprisingly nimble at getting to "her spot."

Michigan could do well this year, along with Flaherty, who played ball with the dreaded "Milk Carton" Mabreys. Those three led Manasquan HS in NJ to a Tournament of Champions title.

 

[Charliebball]

Charlie -- Over at McGraw's bench, a recent thread was led by a Boneyard member.
As per the Boneyard, I'm very well aware of where I am and whom I'm with (as I should because I'm now a #4 in an old man's league) on this board, but I really enjoy the WBB and WCBB contributions from any and all. When right and tight, or loosey and goosey, it's both fun and interesting.

You are gentleman indeed!! I was aiming my "wrath" at the newest ND "combatant"

 

[Orangutan]

Yes, I'll give you Achonwa. But the fact remains both Peters (never) and Turner, for whatever reasons, haven't developed to their full potential. Or McBride in my opinion.

Yes, you are correct again. With ND the people spacing the floor are Muffet's outside shooters which opens up Turner for her inside game. Not the reverse. If she wants to diversify and succeed at the next level, or be more effective at her current level, that mid-range is the key. And frankly, if she had that mid-range game against Stanford the outside woes of Muffet's team would have been ameliorated.

Depends on what you think their potential is, I guess. Peters was the #3 pick in the draft, not bad for someone who had three knee surgeries in college and was ranked #35 out of high school.

McBride's honors - ACC Player of the Year, 1st team All-American, #3 draft pick, part of the USAB player pool. I'd hoped for more from her pro career but she's had injuries in each of her last two WNBA seasons. Probably her best pro play has happened overseas where she was big part of Orenburg's Euroleague finals run.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

Yes, I'll give you Achonwa. But the fact remains both Peters (never) and Turner, for whatever reasons, haven't developed to their full potential. Or McBride in my opinion.

Kayla McBride's high school rankings
#22 ASGR
#20 ESPN/Hoopgurlz
#20 Blue Star
#68 Dan Olson Collegiate Girls Basketball Report

Devereaux Peters's high school rankings
#31 ASGR
#35 ESPN/Hoopgurlz
#24 Blue Star
#21 Dan Olson Collegiate Girls Basketball Report

Natalie Achonwa's high school rankings
#80 ASGR
***Note that Achonwa is Canadian and not all recruiting services rank players outside the U.S.
***Also note that Achonwa did not play her senior season in high school due to her previous participation with the National Elite Development Academy (NEDA); NEDA was a national training center program that brought together the top 12 female developmental athletes from across Canada to train, live and attend high school in a central location.

WNBA Draft Position
#3 Peters (2012 WNBA Draft)
#3 McBride (2014 WNBA Draft)
#9 Achonwa (2014 WNBA Draft)
*** Note at the time of the 2014 WNBA Draft, Achonwa was out for the 2014 WNBA season, with an injury suffered in the 2014 Elite Eight

Relative to their high school rankings, I would argue that all three players improved tremendously in college.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

As for Turner, Muffet McGraw's best teams usually consist of four guards/forwards surrounding a single post, to offer excellent shooting, spacing and versatility. Though Turner can a ball-stopper and a high-usage player (but made better decisions last year, reducing total turnovers from 75 in her first year to 41 in her second), that can be forgiven because she is an incredibly efficient scorer, tough rebounder, and top-notch rim-protector. Notre Dame can always rely on her when she posts up - she is going to get a score when the team really needs one.

Remember, even Tina Charles was strictly a low block player her first few years. In her junior year, she showed off a mid-range jumper from the elbow. She also improved her free throw percentage from 57.8 percent (sophomore) to 68.1 percent (junior). It was not until her WNBA career began and developed that she turned into a 75 percent free throw shooter (her WNBA career percentage). And she did not develop her three point shot until 2016; she made 2 out of a total of 17 attempts in six seasons before shooting 35 percent from beyond the arc this year (on a solid 1.5 attempts per game).

But I agree about the next phase of Turner's game - adding a mid-range jumper. Turner shot 60.5 percent (freshman) and 63.9 percent (sophomore). The next stage is to get the free throw percentage to around 72 percent and add that elbow/foul line jumper. If she can do this, Notre Dame will be that much tougher to defend. Remember, Arike Ogunbowale is a relentless attacker who was second on the team in offensive rebounds and first in free throw attempts, despite only playing 19.3 minutes per game. Pulling Turner out will open up slashing lanes for Ogunbowale, plus likely allow players like Marina Mabrey to be open in the corners for catch-and-shoot threes.

 

[HopJim]

Your right about Mitchell. But she has done it for 2 years now. If KLS puts up 20 a game this year she will be on the list next year.

Have to agree with some of the comments. KLS was good for half the season; great the second half on offense/good on zone defense. If there was another player on another team with more proven skills, would rate her higher NOW. That is a different discussion than the high level I would forecast KLS, Nurse, and others to finish at end of year and playoffs. Some of the non-UCONN teams seem to allow more individual play versus UCONN's total team focus so at times can be difficult for those who don't watch Huskies consistently to understand each player's contribution.

 

[Decoli2]

Speaking of disappearing, is it ok to cancel the APB for the lesser Mabrey. She has not been seen since the first half of the UCONN game. Word on your street in Southbend is that another freshmen even took her minutes. Mabrey learned how to disappear from the best Irish players though: There was Skylar in FF in 2013, Jewell in 2014, Turner in first half of 2015. KLS will become a better player because she is at UCONN. Leprechauns that live in glass houses should learn to stop throwing pebbles.

With regards to Turner, this might be the classic case of a fan lacking understanding of the game plan. Muffet understood winning the game hinged on Turner. It's likely the plan was for Tuner to avoid foul trouble in the first half, which she did (0 personal fouls). When Tuner realized it was her turn to step up, she finished the game with 14 point (shooting 78 percent) and 10 rebounds. Stewart completed the game with 8 points and 15 rebounds. Averaging a double-double as a freshman in the national championship game is not chopped liver.

[Queue the mob who claims Turner only scores from 3 ft from the basket]....so would everyone else if they were that talented. It's called high percentage shots.

Little love for Aja or Turner on this board, but Geno loved them enough to recruit them heavily! Riddle me that!

 

[Charliebball]

With regards to Turner, this might be the classic case of a fan lacking understanding of the game plan. Muffet understood winning the game hinged on Turner. It's likely the plan was for Tuner to avoid foul trouble in the first half, which she did (0 personal fouls). When Tuner realized it was her turn to step up, she finished the game with 14 point (shooting 78 percent) and 10 rebounds. Stewart completed the game with 8 points and 15 rebounds. Averaging a double-double as a freshman in the national championship game is not chopped liver

Little love for Aja or Turner on this board, but Geno loved them enough to recruit them heavily! Riddle me that!

I'm sure there would be plenty of takers for both players here...................unfortunately they are viewed as being supremely talented yet incomplete players at this point in their careers.........if they played for UConn and Geno was unable to "fix" them, you would hear similar complaints from our group................

 

[Decoli2]

I'm sure there would be plenty of takers for both players here....unfortunately they are viewed as being supremely talented yet incomplete players at this point in their careers....if they played for UConn and Geno was unable to "fix" them, you would hear similar complaints from our group......

I understand, but also believe many of the same people claiming post players are incomplete recognize and praise high IQ, team-based basketball. In Notre Dame's offense, why would Brianna Turner take any shot other than at the rim? She's operating in a system where her role does not include the elbow jumper. She is surrounded by very talented shooters from the mid-range and the three point line. What fans see is not always indicative of what a player can do.

Aja Wilson, on the other hand played the high post and shot the elbow jumper last season for two reasons: SC had subpar guard play (outside of Tiffany Mitchell) and her counterpart in the post surely could not play anywhere but around the rim. I think we'll still see her at the high post this season, but believe SC's offense will change considering the addition of Gray and Davis who are both adept off the dribble.

In the same vein, those saying KLS is not supremely talented are likely in for a rude awakening this year. She was playing alongside three transcendent players - and playing her role. She will be a different player this year, as her role has changed.

 

[Kibitzer]

We don't need no steenkin' pre-season All-Americans! We got the most Badasses come crunch time!

Let the games begin. Just watch and see.

 

[wallman]

With regards to Turner, this might be the classic case of a fan lacking understanding of the game plan. Muffet understood winning the game hinged on Turner. It's likely the plan was for Tuner to avoid foul trouble in the first half, which she did (0 personal fouls). When Tuner realized it was her turn to step up, she finished the game with 14 point (shooting 78 percent) and 10 rebounds. Stewart completed the game with 8 points and 15 rebounds. Averaging a double-double as a freshman in the national championship game is not chopped liver.

[Queue the mob who claims Turner only scores from 3 ft from the basket]....so would everyone else if they were that talented. It's called high percentage shots.

Little love for Aja or Turner on this board, but Geno loved them enough to recruit them heavily! Riddle me that!

I actually like Turner over Wilson as I think Turner has a better motor than Wilson. When she played against us I thought she would kill us, UCLA, she had 14 pts and 16 rebs, did pretty well and as you say all her shots were close to the basket. Last year in the Elite 8, I watched Stanford leave her open away from the basket and take away her left in the first half and thus really negated her. Second half McCall forgot the game plan and let her get deep under the basket and she scored mostly left right near the basket.

The problem with those high % shots is that teams will leave her open away from the basket thus clogging the lanes that you talk about.