OT: College in the COVID era

[ClifSpliffy]

given ur daughters predilection for places urban/urbanish, the choice between fordham and uvm is a no brainer (unless specific program offerings) - the big city of burlington.
given a choice of anywhere vs boston for college times?? double u'fah -it's called 'the hub' for a reason. big fun and opportunities in the home of the cod.
dc? fuhgettabootit. it's a mess. 20 something relative is packing up and getting out of his fancy nw abode. main reason? ghost town and now even sketchier public safety. good observation by him - 'everybody here, including my peer group, has turned into a bunch of 90 year olds. great, great gramms could drive around here with one eye closed, since no one is on the roads.'
i think that websters defines college as 'bahston.'

 

[HuskyHawk]

Just curious... what schools did you daughter apply to? I don't remember posting a list in this thread. Just curious.

UVM, William & Mary, George Washington, American, BC, BU, Northeastern, Holy Cross, Fordham, St. Joes (Philly), DePaul, Loyola Chicago. Accepted at the italicized schools. No rejections yet.

@dennismenace my wife is a BC grad, so yes she applied to BC. Probably the biggest reach for admissions though. Tougher to get in to than Fordham. My daughter is at a Catholic HS in MA, and this year 59 of her classmates applied to BC.

@Guapo Yeah, I know American is less well regarded, but I think merit aid is possible. I'm kicking myself for not telling her to apply to Georgetown.

 

[HooperScooper]

UVM, William & Mary, George Washington, American, BC, BU, Northeastern, Holy Cross, Fordham, St. Joes (Philly), DePaul, Loyola Chicago. Accepted at the italicized schools. No rejections yet.

@dennismenace my wife is a BC grad, so yes she applied to BC. Probably the biggest reach for admissions though. Tougher to get in to than Fordham. My daughter is at a Catholic HS in MA, and this year 59 of her classmates applied to BC.

@Guapo Yeah, I know American is less well regarded, but I think merit aid is possible. I'm kicking myself for not telling her to apply to Georgetown.

Well if you think BC is a reach, even with a legacy, then Georgetown would be an extremely big reach. From what I know Georgetown is much harder to get into. If she got into Northeastern then I think she has a good shot at BC. From a few kids who I know who go to BC it doesn't seem to be as hard to get into as you may think. Sounds like she already has some good options. Good luck.

You should be glad you only have to go through this once. We went through it twice and I'm glad I never have to do it again. My older son did everything for grad school on his own. Hoping the younger one takes that same approach!

 

[HuskyHawk]

Well if you think BC is a reach, even with a legacy, then Georgetown would be an extremely big reach. From what I know Georgetown is much harder to get into. If she got into Northeastern then I think she has a good shot at BC. From a few kids who I know who go to BC it doesn't seem to be as hard to get into as you may think. Sounds like she already has some good options. Good luck.

You should be glad you only have to go through this once. We went through it twice and I'm glad I never have to do it again. My older son did everything for grad school on his own. Hoping the younger one takes that same approach!

It's definitely a big reach. BC is only going to take so many Catholic school kids from the Boston area, so that works against her in this case. It's a weird year. Many kids have no SAT. Most have been at home since the spring. So it's hard to predict anything.

Once is enough for this process, and certainly for the expense.

 

[superjohn]

I will look at the crime stats. We will visit and see what we think about it. She lives in a neighborhood where she can't walk to anything. She has no street smarts at all. She only applied to colleges in cities (counting Burlington as one) plus William & Mary. So she's not going to end up in Storrs or anyplace like it.

@superjohn I'd be surprised if pepper spray is legal in NY. In MA it requires a concealed carry permit. Do you have any thoughts on Depaul and Loyola Chicago? Crime Reports Don’t Reflect Violent Crime Near 6 Chicago Universities – NBC Chicago

I remember that Loyola story and a DePaul student was murdered walking home from his job at Starbucks this summer in Andersonville. I tell everyone you're fine in Chicago if you aren't on the West Side or South Side at night but it's a big city and stuff can and does still happen everywhere...

I don't know much about either school to be honest, I know Fordham and Northeastern are considered better than them academically but you can get a really good education anywhere. DePaul is a true city school, most kids live off campus even as freshmen around Lincoln Park which is a very nice neighborhood and DePaul buildings are amongst the city buildings, it's not a walled off campus like some city schools but it's a vibrant and fun area for kids. It doesn't have the big city feel of downtown but there are people, restaurants, bars, music venues all around and the streets are still pretty and quiet tree lined streets. I have a few friends who went there and they liked it and turned out well...

Loyola has more kids living on campus, it's in Rogers Park which is considered a good neighborhood with cheaper rents, I never hang out in Rogers Park so don't know it too well. I think it's a little cheaper and probably has a bit more crime than some other north side neighborboods but I don't think crime is a real problem. It starts getting to be a bit of a hike downtown from there but it's next to Andersonville which I like a lot (great food) and Evanston where Northwestern is, which is a pretty great town. Loyola is basically right next to Northwestern, they are both on Sheridan Road on the lake which is nice and connect to Lake Shore drive which takes you downtown. Not sure I'm friendly with anyone who went to Loyola but have heard good things.

If you want any specific info about DePaul I can talk to my buddy and get back to you.

 

[bendm]

UVM, William & Mary, George Washington, American, BC, BU, Northeastern, Holy Cross, Fordham, St. Joes (Philly), DePaul, Loyola Chicago.

1. W&M
2. BC/Holy Cross
3. BU/GW
4. Northeastern/American/Fordham
5. UVM
6. Depaul/Loyola/St Joes

W&M isn't urban but thomas freaking jefferson went there. she could get any internship she wanted in DC. i'd suck it up for 4 years in colonial williamsburg

i love burlington but the students are pothead ski bums and apres ski craft beer drinkers (good tastes) but there's a 50-50 chance when you visit her over parents weekend her dorm room reeks of pot, there are empty bottles of magic hat and switchback littering every corner, she has blown off half her winter semester classes to ski bolton valley, and she either a) hasnt showered in a month or b) has full on dreadlocks

 

[Palatine]

GW was voted the worse value of American Colleges.

W&M definely should be considered #1.

 

[HuskyHawk]

1. W&M
2. BC/Holy Cross
3. BU/GW
4. Fordham/Northeastern/American
5. UVM
6. Depaul/Loyola/St Joes

william & mary isn't urban but thomas freaking jefferson went there. she could get any internship she wanted in DC. spending 4 years in colonial williamsburg or wherever doesnt matter

i love burlington but the students are pothead ski bums and apres ski craft beer drinkers (good tastes) but there's a 50-50 chance when you visit her over parents weekend her dorm room reeks of pot, there are empty bottles of magic hat and switchback littering every corner, she has blown off half her winter semester classes to ski bolton valley, and she either a) hasnt showered in a month or b) has full on dreadlocks

Well I mostly agree on the #6 line, those were safety schools. Cost does play a role here too. The 2 and 3 lines are going to be very expensive, as is Northeastern.

Your description of UVM reminds me of UConn in many ways. Nobody drinks Magic Hat anymore. Daughter doesn't ski, and isn't outdoorsy. She's more of a gamer. Definitely doesn't want a school of preppy LAX Bros and Cheerleaders (hated Fairfield).

W&M is high on my list despite being the least "urban". Not sure how she will feel about it, if she even gets in. Haven't visited.

 

[bendm]

Daughter doesn't ski, and isn't outdoorsy. She's more of a gamer

i see. well if that's the case she wouldnt be able to fully appreciate going to school in burlington. it's appeal is rooted in being surrounded by the green mountains and lake champlain. uvm and w&m are the odd rural schools out in her list, but w&m more than makes up for it in prestige.

if she got into fordham and NE she'll prob get into american too. those 3 might check the most boxes for your family.

 

[HuskyHawk]

i see. well if that's the case she wouldnt be able to fully appreciate going to school in burlington. it's appeal is rooted in being surrounded by the green mountains and lake champlain. uvm and w&m are the odd rural schools out in her list, but w&m more than makes up for it in prestige.

if she got into fordham and NE she'll prob get into american too. those 3 might check the most boxes for your family.

I wouldn't call Burlington rural. Campus is walkable to downtown in the largest city in the state. Yes, it's not a big city, but the idea is shops, restaurants, live music venues, that kind of stuff. It's an artsy school, so that appeals. We had a house in Vermont until this fall, so she's pretty familiar with it. Now Storrs is rural. She didn't like it at all. Didn't like UNH either.

Northeastern is technically the most competitive school on the list for admissions. So I don't really know what to expect from the others.

 

[bendm]

I wouldn't call Burlington rural. Campus is walkable to downtown in the largest city in the state. Yes, it's not a big city, but the idea is shops, restaurants, live music venues, that kind of stuff. It's an artsy school, so that appeals. We had a house in Vermont until this fall, so she's pretty familiar with it. Now Storrs is rural. She didn't like it at all. Didn't like UNH either.

Northeastern is technically the most competitive school on the list for admissions. So I don't really know what to expect from the others.

an artsy gamer how eccentric. fine burlington technically isnt rural but it has more in common with williamsburg than boston, nyc, philly, dc, or chicago

 

[Chin Diesel]

1. W&M
2. BC/Holy Cross
3. BU/GW
4. Northeastern/American/Fordham
5. UVM
6. Depaul/Loyola/St Joes

W&M isn't urban but thomas freaking jefferson went there. she could get any internship she wanted in DC. i'd suck it up for 4 years in colonial williamsburg

i love burlington but the students are pothead ski bums and apres ski craft beer drinkers (good tastes) but there's a 50-50 chance when you visit her over parents weekend her dorm room reeks of pot, there are empty bottles of magic hat and switchback littering every corner, she has blown off half her winter semester classes to ski bolton valley, and she either a) hasnt showered in a month or b) has full on dreadlocks

That's a real good description of Burlington. I was up there back in early December and downtown just had a constant stank of weed. I do like the Switchback Ale though.

Same for William and Mary. It's in the middle of one of the least interesting parts of the mid-Atlantic. When your choices are Norfolk to the south and Richmond to the east/north, you know you're not there for the excitement. But, yes, W&M is world class and I think I'd rather my kid go there than G'town or any of the other DC schools listed.

 

[Guapo]

UVM, William & Mary, George Washington, American, BC, BU, Northeastern, Holy Cross, Fordham, St. Joes (Philly), DePaul, Loyola Chicago. Accepted at the italicized schools. No rejections yet.

@dennismenace my wife is a BC grad, so yes she applied to BC. Probably the biggest reach for admissions though. Tougher to get in to than Fordham. My daughter is at a Catholic HS in MA, and this year 59 of her classmates applied to BC.

@Guapo Yeah, I know American is less well regarded, but I think merit aid is possible. I'm kicking myself for not telling her to apply to Georgetown.

Williamsburg is not exactly a big city, but I do love the William and Mary campus and it’s in such a unique setting

 

[HooperScooper]

When your choices are Norfolk to the south and Richmond to the east/north, you know you're not there for the excitement.

Hey, Richmond has a great craft beer scene. Veil and Triple Crossing, to name only 2 of the many, are excellent. Wait, you mean that's not a great sell for a college student?! But HuskyHawk would be excited. Actually Richmond is supposed to be a pretty cool funky small city.

 

[Letsgohuskies11]

I wouldn't call Burlington rural. Campus is walkable to downtown in the largest city in the state. Yes, it's not a big city, but the idea is shops, restaurants, live music venues, that kind of stuff. It's an artsy school, so that appeals. We had a house in Vermont until this fall, so she's pretty familiar with it. Now Storrs is rural. She didn't like it at all. Didn't like UNH either.

Northeastern is technically the most competitive school on the list for admissions. So I don't really know what to expect from the others.

What does your daughter want to study? I'd let that dictate where she goes then trying to find the perfect location. You can make any situation as good or as bad as you want it. Based on the schools you listed, it doesnt make sense to me that you are letting the location dictate over the quality of education.

I have friends who went to super expensive private schools only to come out of college working $15/hr jobs with tons of debt, just as I have ones who didnt go to great schools on paper that are making tons of money.

 

[Umami Zen]

You guys are giving me really good vibes about sending my only child there. UVM is looking pretty good right now.

UVM/Burlington Vt.
Is one of the best environments for kids to enjoy the college experience/get a great education/ and be safe.

If you're talented and good.. Isn't it really more than that? Fordham is cool. Have friends who have sons that graduated from there. They enjoyed it there. But on- campus life is not their priority.

At the end of the day.. What is their(your child's) "end game"? Big time in the City or a happy work/life balance doing what you enjoy with a happy family life.

No one knows your kids better than you.

 

[DCHuskyFan]

William and Mary is a state school and is difficult to get into if you aren’t a Virginia resident. Not quite as difficult to get into as UVA, but close. As a VA resident, I am already pushing those for my two girls, who are years away.

I went to BU, graduated in 1995, lived in Allston for two years and on campus for two. Never felt unsafe and didn’t hear about much crime, although I’m sure it existed. Now, it is so much more safe and clean than it used to be. Get out your wallet, however, for BU, BC, GW, and American and most of the other schools you mentioned.

 

[Greedo]

Well I mostly agree on the #6 line, those were safety schools. Cost does play a role here too. The 2 and 3 lines are going to be very expensive, as is Northeastern.

Your description of UVM reminds me of UConn in many ways. Nobody drinks Magic Hat anymore. Daughter doesn't ski, and isn't outdoorsy. She's more of a gamer. Definitely doesn't want a school of preppy LAX Bros and Cheerleaders (hated Fairfield).

W&M is high on my list despite being the least "urban". Not sure how she will feel about it, if she even gets in. Haven't visited.

Based on your description of her, Temple would be a good fit (though also not in a safe area). Most private schools are going to have that preppy vibe. Fordham will. Of the schools she’s considering, UVM is probably her best bet for student body. The rest will have plenty of preppy LAX bros.

 

[UConnRock]

Son is at Northeastern now. Chose NU over Emory and W&M. Liked the co-op and the perks of the honors program (better housing, small classes and research opportunities). NU’s continued growth and expansion is amazing. New academic buildings new dorms. They just seem to be buying more and more land and buildings. The plans for NU are amazing. I just wish they would spend more $$ on professors, especially in the humanities.

It is are area you either love or hate. My daughter had no interest in NU as she wanted a more traditional campus and college experience. We were only able to visit a couple of colleges. She fell in love with Rice and got in ED. Live in TN with one child in Boston and one in Houston.

Applications were way up at NU as the no test score option attracted many who would not have applied. It is interesting times as the admissions folks try to determine how many international students will enroll. I would expect a large waitlist at many schools as they have no clue who will enroll. I do know that NU is throwing around more merit aid than in previous years based on my daughter’s friends offers, so there is a push to attract with $$.

 

[Kitaman]

Yeah. I’m largely concerned with her being raped or murdered. Another option you may know is Loyola of Chicago. I feel better about that location. DePaul as well I suppose. She wants an urban environment but has no street smarts and hasn’t lived in a city since we left South Boston when she was 6 months old.

Perhaps I’m exaggerating things. But I have one child so the risk concerns me.

Sometimes you just have to look at the news. I'm in Fairfield County and worked in NYC for a couple of decades. There were no alarming reports coming out of Fordham, no rapes, muggings or other criminal activities. And I still see no bad reports out of Fordham.

My daughter goes to grad school at night at Northeastern and like Fordham no alarming news happening to students. Keep in mind, if Fordham had crime problems attendance would certainly drop.

Funny how as parents we are now so scared (some call it protective) at the same situations that when we were their age meant nothing to us. My daughter survived Boston on her own in undergrad, and is thriving now. I believe you have prepared her for anything.

Anyway, you will certainly enjoy visiting her on weekends even if you only can see her for a couple of hours. Just saying not a bad location to have to visit.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Sometimes you just have to look at the news. I'm in Fairfield County and worked in NYC for a couple of decades. There were no alarming reports coming out of Fordham, no rapes, muggings or other criminal activities. And I still see no bad reports out of Fordham.

My daughter goes to grad school at night at Northeastern and like Fordham no alarming news happening to students. Keep in mind, if Fordham had crime problems attendance would certainly drop.

Funny how as parents we are now so scared (some call it protective) at the same situations that when we were their age meant nothing to us. My daughter survived Boston on her own in undergrad, and is thriving now. I believe you have prepared her for anything.

Anyway, you will certainly enjoy visiting her on weekends even if you only can see her for a couple of hours. Just saying not a bad location to have to visit.

It's a fair point. The crime issue was derailing from what I really wanted to know about the area and school, it was meant as just a piece of the picture. @Hey Adrien! helped with that and Superjohn for Chicago. As for visits, Boston is certainly no big deal, as I already live in the metro area. NYC makes my skin crawl. Just the sight of it from a distance makes me want to turn around. Love Chicago though. Burlington would be my top visit location, grabbing beer at Foam makes for a nice day.

 

[Hey Adrien!]

@HuskyHawk, curious: did she apply to UMass-Amherst and if not, what was the reason? I don't know much about the school other than I went to a concert there as an undergrad and the few times I've been to Amherst it seems like a pretty fun town for all ages, especially college aged.

If we end up having kids, we'd highly encourage the in-state school route, but mostly because I don't foresee us being able to help much financially and myself and my wife already have that personal bias as in-state public school grads (UConn and UM-Missoula).

Thanks, I just find this stuff fascinating. The guy I share a classroom with had his kid start at UVM this fall and it was really interesting seeing his search process through covid. Good luck with it.

 

[HuskyHawk]

@HuskyHawk, curious: did she apply to UMass-Amherst and if not, what was the reason? I don't know much about the school other than I went to a concert there as an undergrad and the few times I've been to Amherst it seems like a pretty fun town for all ages, especially college aged.

If we end up having kids, we'd highly encourage the in-state school route, but mostly because I don't foresee us being able to help much financially and myself and my wife already have that personal bias as in-state public school grads (UConn and UM-Missoula).

Thanks, I just find this stuff fascinating. The guy I share a classroom with had his kid start at UVM this fall and it was really interesting seeing his search process through covid. Good luck with it.

No to UMass Amherst. It would certainly have been the cheapest route, although not cheap. She didn't really want that big university situation. We visited UConn and she hated that it was in the boonies and thought the campus was too big and sprawling. Felt the same about Kansas, although she would absolutely have loved Lawrence.

Every kid will be different. Mine went to Catholic school from kindergarten. So was always driven to school. This year she could actually have some freedom and drive herself...then Covid. To visit school friends she had to drive but once she got her license last spring Covid was here. She's been stuck in this neighborhood for 17 years. So I understand why she doesn't want to rely on just the campus to provide her social life (as is the case in Storrs and Amherst). It was very different for me as a kid.

People talk about rankings and programs and all of that. If the kid is laser focused on something, that will drive your search. Mine isn't, so the environment is in many ways more important, although we will consider the other stuff too. People can succeed going to college anywhere.

 

[SubbaBub]

Sorry to bump this. Since many of you live or work in metro NYC, what are your thoughts on Fordham? As someone who dislikes NYC immensely and who has never stepped foot in the Bronx, I have misgivings. But my daughter had it high on her list and got in. So it’s a real possibility. We haven’t visited campus yet. Curious about how it is perceived, the location, safety etc.

For anybody curious how this process has played out since we discussed it here. She applied to 12 schools. Has heard from 6, 5 acceptances and one acceptance to a specific program (NUin at Northeastern, where you start abroad for a semester). I think these schools are concerned about declining enrollment. At this point I regret not pushing her to apply to Georgetown, although my wallet may be glad.

NYU>Ne>Fordham.

Going to school in NYC is it's own thing. Less like campus college and more like moving to LA to get into the movies.

The question you are asking yourself is can your daughter handle herself on her own or will be able to learn how.

FWIW, your first impression will likely be the worst. I did my undergrad is a real s hole though not the Bronx. Took a good measure of the fencing and gates on my campus visit.

Ended up moving off campus rather quickly once enrolled. While I was never physically assaulted, I knew several that were. My apt was robbed twice as were those of a couple other friends.

My conclusion is that kids will adapt to their surroundings and isn't that the point of education? There will be some level of safety risk and crime at any campus. UConn has had some doozies, and it's in the middle of a cow pasture.

If you carefully consider the quality of education and the opportunities she might have academically and professionally, you should be able to have a discussion about personal safety regardless of location.

My only regret was I should have gone somewhere warmer.

 

[Tenspro2002]

GW was voted the worse value of American Colleges.

I agree with this take. My brother went to GW because he really wanted to be in DC.

Seems like a fine school academically, especially for political science and adjacent subjects, good access to internships and things, and it's in one of the better areas of DC, but the impression I get is there are a lot of rich/preppy kids who want a decent education but aren't looking to push themselves. Maybe even a bit of a party school.

And, yes, heinously expensive despite being merely a good-but-not-elite private university.

So, OP, I would say, consider GW if your daughter is particularly interested in DC and government/policy, but otherwise there are better choices.

 

[SubbaBub]

Sometimes you just have to look at the news. I'm in Fairfield County and worked in NYC for a couple of decades. There were no alarming reports coming out of Fordham, no rapes, muggings or other criminal activities. And I still see no bad reports out of Fordham.

My daughter goes to grad school at night at Northeastern and like Fordham no alarming news happening to students. Keep in mind, if Fordham had crime problems attendance would certainly drop.

Funny how as parents we are now so scared (some call it protective) at the same situations that when we were their age meant nothing to us. My daughter survived Boston on her own in undergrad, and is thriving now. I believe you have prepared her for anything.

Anyway, you will certainly enjoy visiting her on weekends even if you only can see her for a couple of hours. Just saying not a bad location to have to visit.

Comparatively speaking, we lived like animals in college. How we lived in that filth is beyond me. Kids get in big trouble for so much less. Underage drinking can now result in expulsion in some places.

It's all relative I supposed a decade before me, my building was a massive LSD lab. Our 100 keg parties seem mild by comparison.

 

[Guapo]

I agree with this take. My brother went to GW because he really wanted to be in DC.

Seems like a fine school academically, especially for political science and adjacent subjects, good access to internships and things, and it's in one of the better areas of DC, but the impression I get is there are a lot of rich/preppy kids who want a decent education but aren't looking to push themselves. Maybe even a bit of a party school.

And, yes, heinously expensive despite being merely a good-but-not-elite private university.

So, OP, I would say, consider GW if your daughter is particularly interested in DC and government/policy, but otherwise there are better choices.

this is spot on. If she wants to do something in politics, GW is great.

Otherwise, definitely not worth the money

 

[Guapo]

People can succeed going to college anywhere.

100%. The most important thing is grades. If you do well academically, you’ll be fine no matter where you go to school.

my wife is a legal recruiter; a 4.0 at a lesser ranked school is more desirable than a 2.8 at a higher ranked school.

If you had a GPA below a 3.7, her firm will not look at a resume, no matter where the candidate went to school.

 

[superjohn]

100%. The most important thing is grades. If you do well academically, you’ll be fine no matter where you to school.

my wife is a legal recruiter; a 4.0 at a lesser ranked school is more desirable than a 2.8 at a higher ranked school.

If you had a GPA below a 3.7, her firm will not look at a resume, no matter where the candidate went to school.

That seems like a really stupid policy.

 

[Guapo]

That seems like a really stupid policy.

I should say, specifically for their summer associate program...and obviously there are degrees to this. If someone from Harvard applies, that’s a different story. But, this policy holds for the schools they recruit from