Clemson says 'Peace Out!' to the ACC | Page 3 | The Boneyard

Clemson says 'Peace Out!' to the ACC

Wouldn't that in itself invalidate the agreement?

I am not a lawyer, but in over 2 decades in finance, I have never come across a situation where thousands or millions, to say nothing of billions, are allocated based on a contract no one has a copy of. It is beyond bizarre.
 
Virginia market. It's the school that many Virginians follow. State with a large population. Not as fanatical statewide as residents of North Carolina are to UNC.

UNC will be SEC bound. Slam dunk for that conference. I hope NC State is forced to go with them. Less competition for UConn in the B12 sweepstakes. Duke will wither on the vine along with many of the schools not in the P3.
I don't see that with Virginia at all, they aren't even the most popular football school in their own state. UVA probably has a decent fanbase in basketball and some non-revenue sports like lacrosse but they certainly don't move the needle.
 
Virginia market. It's the school that many Virginians follow. State with a large population. Not as fanatical statewide as residents of North Carolina are to UNC.

UNC will be SEC bound. Slam dunk for that conference. I hope NC State is forced to go with them. Less competition for UConn in the B12 sweepstakes. Duke will wither on the vine along with many of the schools not in the P3.
I would be shocked if UNC went to the SEC. The Big Ten has wanted them for a while.
 
All of this ACC turmoil is good for UConn. Ultimately, the contentious legal brickbats thrown by FSU, Clemson et al, will result in a settlement--a separation-- and a need to backfill. Benedict has always felt that after the PAC 12 collapsed and the 4 Corner Schools fell into Yormark's lap (an offer he couldn't refuse) we became a very long shot for the BIG 12, given the lack of interest by their presidents. Notwithstanding Yormark's earlier desire for our inclusion he no longer had an incentive to fight for us. Benedict knows that the ACC is actually (and ultimately) the best and most likely landing spot for us once the dust settles. UConn will not jeopardize its football program by letting it sway alone in the wilderness of "independence", nor will he consider joining a lesser conference like UMass has done. Our basketball rejuvenation has been a godsend and that move to the Big East was the necessary and critical step to ultimately moving to an all sport conference. I'd say he's paying very close attention to what's happening with our football program and to all the noise coming from Tallahassee and South Carolina. My sense is he won't be lounging (or distracted) at any Caribbean resorts for the foreseeable future.
 
All of this ACC turmoil is good for UConn. Ultimately, the contentious legal brickbats thrown by FSU, Clemson et al, will result in a settlement--a separation-- and a need to backfill. Benedict has always felt that after the PAC 12 collapsed and the 4 Corner Schools fell into Yormark's lap (an offer he couldn't refuse) we became a very long shot for the BIG 12, given the lack of interest by their presidents. Notwithstanding Yormark's earlier desire for our inclusion he no longer had an incentive to fight for us. Benedict knows that the ACC is actually (and ultimately) the best and most likely landing spot for us once the dust settles. UConn will not jeopardize its football program by letting it sway alone in the wilderness of "independence", nor will he consider joining a lesser conference like UMass has done. Our basketball rejuvenation has been a godsend and that move to the Big East was the necessary and critical step to ultimately moving to an all sport conference. I'd say he's paying very close attention to what's happening with our football program and to all the noise coming from Tallahassee and South Carolina. My sense is he won't be lounging (or distracted) at any Caribbean resorts for the foreseeable future.
The ACC currently blows and they'll be that much worse once their good schools leave...they already brought in Cal, Stanford, and SMU which makes them even more revolting.
 
Walk me through how finishing 7-5 in the SEC is better for Clemson than 11-1 in the ACC.
The real problem isn’t wins and losses. It is $80 million > $30 million. If a school could get Big 10 or SEC money and you told them they’d never win another game in any sport, almost every one would still make the move. Who thinks Oklahoma is going 11-1 and play for the SEC title more than 1 time per decade? Texas A&M has won exactly how many SEC WEST titles? I’m not even saying league titles.
 
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What would it take for the Big East to re-establish itself as D1 football conference? I don't care on preferences, just curious on opinions.
 
I don’t disagree. I just mean, is there any evidence the SEC will take them?

No inside info, but if the SEC was to lockup those 2 they’d have every top football program in the region. I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s what they’re hoping to accomplish.
 
North Carolina is all south culturally. The academic fit with the BIG is far less important than the southern regional fit of like mindedness. The SEC will be throwing bundles to bring them in. North Carolina is the eastern equivalent of Texas for the SEC.

Virginia will be the interesting play. My money is they head to the SEC as well.

Clemson is in desperation mode. They were mediocre in football for some time prior to their recent success. I lived in South Carolina for ten years and left the second year of Dabo’s hire. Clemson was despised and laughed at by the majority of people in that state during that period of mediocrity before Sweeney’s hiring.

The longer things play out in the ACC conference the greater the chance of Clemson returning to mediocrity. The University of South Carolina and Florida Gators will vote to keep them and FSU out. FSU is likely B12 bound. Clemson will be in some private school conference unless they can get a slot with one of the big boys soon while the fires are hot.
Yup, SEC is the preferred spot for UNC. Besides the fact they it's a culturally southern state, the financial/reputational difference between the P2 but the travel element is a major plus for the SEC vs. Big 10. No need to fly softball out to the west coast.
 
Yup, SEC is the preferred spot for UNC. Besides the fact they it's a culturally southern state, the financial/reputational difference between the P2 but the travel element is a major plus for the SEC vs. Big 10. No need to fly softball out to the west coast.
It is true about the STATE of North Carolina. Not so sure it is true of the UNIVERSITY of North Carolina. Nor the Triangle. Not sure how it all eventually plays out, but I’d say NCState would be a better cultural fit. I know they are practically across the street, but State is a different culture than UNC.
 
Yup, SEC is the preferred spot for UNC. Besides the fact they it's a culturally southern state, the financial/reputational difference between the P2 but the travel element is a major plus for the SEC vs. Big 10. No need to fly softball out to the west coast.
Obviously not a factor but I'd imagine UNC Soccer would end up in the Sun Belt with Kentucky, South Carolina, WVU. That would be strange.
 
This Clemson/FSU legal action is one of the more surreal cases I have ever seen. The entire case hinges on a contract that none of the members have an actual copy of.
That should be grounds enough for an annulment. Can't expect to abide by a contract you don't even have.
 
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I am not a lawyer, but in over 2 decades in finance, I have never come across a situation where thousands or millions, to say nothing of billions, are allocated based on a contract no one has a copy of. It is beyond bizarre.
I'm not a lawyer, but it is bizarre. That said, not having a copy of a contract doesn't invalidate a contract. Still, I would think that large state entities would require a copy of a contract for audits, etc.
 
Little chance they are successful on the merits absent a showing there was fraud in the inducement…intentional concealment of material facts that go to the basis of the bargain. Unconscionability requires such a gross disparity that is approaches immorality… shocks the conscious. With sophisticated parties negotiating the agreement, it would be tall order. The purpose is to harass and drive the conference to negotiate rather than risk an unexpected outcome.
 
I'm not a lawyer, but it is bizarre. That said, not having a copy of a contract doesn't invalidate a contract. Still, I would think that large state entities would require a copy of a contract for audits, etc.

It can invalidate the contract, unless all the parties agreed in advance that the only contract would be at the ACC office, in which case I am willing to bet there are no statutes or cases covering something this ridiculous. Why would anyone set up such an absurd situation?
 
Benedict knows that the ACC is actually (and ultimately) the best and most likely landing spot for us once the dust settles.
it depends on how much annual tv revenue a conference of 7 to 11 ACC leftovers plus UConn would be worth. the ACC and Big12 are getting around $30 mill per year per school now. Assuming the ACC loses at least FSU, Clemson, Miami, UNC and its Notre Dame alliance, what is that worth? $10 million per year per school at most? if the next BE deal goes up by a million or two per year per school then we CANNOT risk the best bball program in the country for an extra 2-3 million per year.
 
it depends on how much annual tv revenue a conference of 7 to 11 ACC leftovers plus UConn would be worth. the ACC and Big12 are getting around $30 mill per year per school now. Assuming the ACC loses at least FSU, Clemson, Miami, UNC and its Notre Dame alliance, what is that worth? $10 million per year per school at most? if the next BE deal goes up by a million or two per year per school then we CANNOT risk the best bball program in the country for an extra 2-3 million per year.
Have to add in football money. This will probably change but it will be more than $350,000.

 
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it depends on how much annual tv revenue a conference of 7 to 11 ACC leftovers plus UConn would be worth. the ACC and Big12 are getting around $30 mill per year per school now. Assuming the ACC loses at least FSU, Clemson, Miami, UNC and its Notre Dame alliance, what is that worth? $10 million per year per school at most? if the next BE deal goes up by a million or two per year per school then we CANNOT risk the best bball program in the country for an extra 2-3 million per year.
I think we stay in the Big East even if it’s for less money bc leadership still has AAC nightmares. I just pray it doesn’t turn into a thing where there’s no real competition, and the conversation in conference becomes UConn doesn’t belong here. There’s going to be complaints about us being a large state school with public money playing all these small private catholic schools.
 
The NC Board of Trustees certainly made a lot of noise to that effect.

Not sure everyone believes they will actually enforce that when the offers come in for UNC and not for State. But we'll see, I guess.
The only reason VaTech is in the ACC was because of Virginia politics. Why wouldn’t they protect them again?
 
I think we stay in the Big East even if it’s for less money bc leadership still has AAC nightmares. I just pray it doesn’t turn into a thing where there’s no real competition, and the conversation in conference becomes UConn doesn’t belong here. There’s going to be complaints about us being a large state school with public money playing all these small private catholic schools.
Big East hoops isn't going away. Just look at what Georgetown, Nova, Marquette, Johnnies spend on hoops.
 
It depends on how much annual tv revenue a conference of ACC leftovers plus UConn would be worth. if the next BE deal goes up by a million or two per year per school then we CANNOT risk the best bball program in the country for an extra 2-3 million per year.
It’s more about saving our football program. Ultimately we’ll take the ACC over the BE.
 
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Isn't that the point of a GOR?
If the point is to penalize teams trying to exit it wouldn't be enforceable. The ACC will never admit it's a penalty, their defense would go up in flames.
 
Big East hoops isn't going away. Just look at what Georgetown, Nova, Marquette, Johnnies spend on hoops.
It’s not going away, just going farther away from the real money conferences. It’s not right but it’s the sports cesspool we live in.
 
Since it was public knowledge that the agreement was signed, wouldn't there be an applicable statute of limitations on challenging it?
In a situation like this the limitations period might not even begin to run until it would be enforced. To your point, that may be another reason why FSU and Clemson didn't wait around to file suit.
 
Clemson, FSU et al will at some point sort itself out. Will the ACC go the way of the Pac 12? Probably. Importantly, in the meantime, where does that leave UConn? Searching for a home?
 
What would it take for the Big East to re-establish itself as D1 football conference? I don't care on preferences, just curious on opinions.
Unfortunately the basketball only schools will never see eye to eye with the football and basketball schools. They will always squabble over revenue sharing. Kind of why the league blew up in the first place. Too bad, because the old Big East was on the verge of taking the ACC to the woodshed, just didn't have the right leadership in place.

If you can solve that issue, Anthony Blinken may have a job for you.
 
It’s more about saving our football program. Ultimately we’ll take the ACC over the BE.
Haha no. We’re not sacrificing the best bball program in the country to save the worst football program in the country. We already tried taking a couple extra million for the sake of football by joining the aac and it was a failure of epic proportions.
 
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