Clemson says 'Peace Out!' to the ACC

[GlastonTim]

It would be so much better if there was football only conferences and all other sports regional conferences. Just separate football and don’t ruin it for everyone else.

 

[ecasadoSBU]

I don't think "Peace out" is the appropriate term.

This is more like "This is War!" from Clemson

 

[cohenzone]

Create a portal for universities to transfer conferences

Post of the decade.

 

[ctchamps]

UNC is more of a BIG cultural fit.

North Carolina is all south culturally. The academic fit with the BIG is far less important than the southern regional fit of like mindedness. The SEC will be throwing bundles to bring them in. North Carolina is the eastern equivalent of Texas for the SEC.

Virginia will be the interesting play. My money is they head to the SEC as well.

Clemson is in desperation mode. They were mediocre in football for some time prior to their recent success. I lived in South Carolina for ten years and left the second year of Dabo’s hire. Clemson was despised and laughed at by the majority of people in that state during that period of mediocrity before Sweeney’s hiring.

The longer things play out in the ACC conference the greater the chance of Clemson returning to mediocrity. The University of South Carolina and Florida Gators will vote to keep them and FSU out. FSU is likely B12 bound. Clemson will be in some private school conference unless they can get a slot with one of the big boys soon while the fires are hot.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

If ESPN really can cancel or amend their agreement with the ACC, then I think the ACC Grant of Rights may be a little wobbly. The GoR was based on the TV contract, so no TV contract, no GoR (maybe).

Conference raids always happen when a TV contract is getting renewed, and the ESPN look-in coming in a year or two essentially counts as a renewal.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

North Carolina is all south culturally. The academic fit with the BIG is far less important than the southern regional fit of like mindedness. The SEC will be throwing bundles to bring them in. North Carolina is the eastern equivalent of Texas for the SEC.

Virginia will be the interesting play. My money is they head to the SEC as well.

Clemson is in desperation mode. They were mediocre in football for some time prior to their recent success. I lived in South Carolina for ten years and left the second year of Dabo’s hire. Clemson was despised and laughed at by the majority of people in that state during that period of mediocrity before Sweeney’s hiring.

The longer things play out in the ACC conference the greater the chance of Clemson returning to mediocrity. The University of South Carolina and Florida Gators will vote to keep them and FSU out. FSU is likely B12 bound. Clemson will be in some private school conference unless they can get a slot with one of the big boys soon while the fires are hot.

Walk me through how finishing 7-5 in the SEC is better for Clemson than 11-1 in the ACC.

 

[ctchamps]

Walk me through how finishing 7-5 in the SEC is better for Clemson than 11-1 in the ACC.

I wrote it’s very unlikely they get into the SEC. So don’t understand why I need to walk you through something unlikely to happen.

But in the off chance I’m wrong they’re likely to be in the 5-7 or 3-9 category in the SEC.

They’re fighting to get out of the ACC before slots are filled in the P3.

 

[dogpause]

This Clemson/FSU legal action is one of the more surreal cases I have ever seen. The entire case hinges on a contract that none of the members have an actual copy of.

Wouldn't that in itself invalidate the agreement?

 

[dogpause]

I wonder if Clemson's President was also unauthorized to sign the contract--like FSU's President--making the contract automatically void.

That tactic is 100% guaranteed to work!

Since it was public knowledge that the agreement was signed, wouldn't there be an applicable statute of limitations on challenging it?

 

[dogpause]

Hard to say, that's why this case will most likely be settled. If FSU and Clemson can prove that a breach of GOR results in a penalty as opposed to a more reasonable monetary damage amount, it will work in their favor. Courts do not generally enforce penalties.

Settling this case will also likely involve the plaintiffs moving on from the ACC. We may see other ACC teams join in on the fun. My guess is that the ACC will get picked over. The remaining teams may try to merge with the Big 12, which is really the only the only plausible reason the ACC took Stanford, Cal and SMU. I think we'll also have a landing spot somewhere.

The GOR certainly seems punative. As does the large buyout amount.

 

[FlexOnEm]

But where are they going? SEC?

SEC. They have to. FSU just showed you can go undefeated in the ACC and still not a get a chance to play in a national championship. Why would any recruit go there if they can go 13-0 and still be left out of the playoffs? Clemson and FSU have the choice of staying in the ACC and drifting into irrelevance or leaving for the SEC and continuing to be football powerhouses. Once realignment settles this time around the SEC and Big 10 will be the only football conferences that matter. Big 12 will be a second rate football conference compared to those two and the ACC will become a mid major for football.

 

[BlueandOG]

Clemson and FSU have overinflated egos. The crown jewels of the ACC are UNC and Virginia. SEC wants both for their brands and cultural ties, B1G for academics and sports reputations. FSU and Clemson do not check those boxes. The Big 12 will take FSU and Clemson, but how much of an upgrade is that?

 

[superjohn]

Clemson and FSU have overinflated egos. The crown jewels of the ACC are UNC and Virginia. SEC wants both for their brands and cultural ties, B1G for academics and sports reputations. FSU and Clemson do not check those boxes. The Big 12 will take FSU and Clemson, but how much of an upgrade is that?

So it's no longer about football?

Virginia blows in football and UNC isn't much better.

 

[aburks41]

I'm very curious to see what happens with Duke. Is their basketball a big enough brand to get them into the Big 10 or SEC? If it is, then what is Kansas doing sitting in the Big 12?

 

[The Yakk]

Since it was public knowledge that the agreement was signed, wouldn't there be an applicable statute of limitations on challenging it?

Lol not exactly a statute of limitations, more like a tacit acceptance through piggishness.

FSU and Clemson happily cashed TV checks for hundreds of millions since they signed the GOR. Let them pay all that money back with interest if they are now bothered by the GOR.

 

[Waquoit]

The GOR certainly seems punative. As does the large buyout amount.

Isn't that the point of a GOR?

 

[The Yakk]

The GOR certainly seems punative. As does the large buyout amount.

The GOR itself is not "punative" unless someone is trying to exit a conference. That is the point of it.

Tying the teams to the conference allowed them to sign lucrative TV contracts. The GOR benefited all the teams, including Free Shoes and Clumsy, until those schools decided it didn't. That fact will not be forgotten in the settlement.

ACC remainders likely to get a nice windfall from the settlement, because I think they have a lot of leverage here. But that is short term money.

 

[UConnTrumbull]

SEC. They have to. FSU just showed you can go undefeated in the ACC and still not a get a chance to play in a national championship. Why would any recruit go there if they can go 13-0 and still be left out of the playoffs? Clemson and FSU have the choice of staying in the ACC and drifting into irrelevance or leaving for the SEC and continuing to be football powerhouses. Once realignment settles this time around the SEC and Big 10 will be the only football conferences that matter. Big 12 will be a second rate football conference compared to those two and the ACC will become a mid major for football.

I don’t disagree. I just mean, is there any evidence the SEC will take them?

 

[Kolumbo]

FSU and Clemson want out but there is no perfect fit for them in the P2. They could bring the B12 that much closer to P2 level but they could do that with the ACC if they all agreed to disband and reform with a new perhaps better deal. Not much closer, but closer.

It would be so much better if there was football only conferences and all other sports regional conferences. Just separate football and don’t ruin it for everyone else.

Duke, Wake, ND, SU, bcu, SMU, Stanford, Cal
Ga Tech, Pitt, Louisville

Say any or all of the above join the Big East or a merger of the Big East with the ACC, programs not going to the other P3.
2 Divisions: Big East & ACC
No football.
All the football programs are Independent and play each other in their own format temporarily or are able to finally create a football only conference.
This is how UConn gets the best of both worlds after suffering through CR hell for a couple decades.

 

[ec33]

So it's no longer about football?

Virginia blows in football and UNC isn't much better.

Virginia and North Carolina as excellent recruiting grounds in football and it will also be a territorial thing. Going non-South with Texas and Oklahoma is a bit off brand culturally, but North Carolina and Virginia fit (and at this point, another Vandy - in Virginia - to put on the schedule will be a welcome relief).

 

[bendm]

I told you all last summer, UNC is shaping up to leave the ACC and will be first in line when the chips fall.

The SEC is the preferred league.

only if theyre also willing to take NC St....the state legislature did some hamstringing so either both leave or neither can leave

 

[bendm]

So it's no longer about football?

Virginia blows in football and UNC isn't much better.

it is until it isnt. BIG must also care about markets or they wouldnt have added rutgers and maryland. having said that virginia and unc dont bring in big markets either. having said that unc is a big brand. having said that theyd also have to take NC St. having said that the goal posts are always moving.

 

[The Yakk]

only if theyre also willing to take NC St....the state legislature did some hamstringing so either both leave or neither can leave

The NC Board of Trustees certainly made a lot of noise to that effect.

Not sure everyone believes they will actually enforce that when the offers come in for UNC and not for State. But we'll see, I guess.

 

[ctchamps]

So it's no longer about football?

Virginia blows in football and UNC isn't much better.

Viewership.

 

[McLovin]

So it's no longer about football?

Virginia blows in football and UNC isn't much better.

This is why as a UConn fan, this conference realignment stuff has been so infuriating. They move the goal posts and change the narrative on why they are expanding every time. Markets, football, academics/ AAU status, viewership, club quidditch, you name it.

If they want a team not named UConn and are asked to explain why they took them, they will pull the reason out of the hat. We continue to check so many boxes, only to be told they don’t matter when it’s decision time.

 

[superjohn]

Viewership.

UVA viewership?

 

[Mike75]

it is until it isnt. BIG must also care about markets or they wouldnt have added rutgers and maryland. having said that virginia and unc dont bring in big markets either. having said that unc is a big brand. having said that theyd also have to take NC St. having said that the goal posts are always moving.

Fair point, but that was also a different era before cord cutting and streaming. Neither MD or Rutgers would draw much interest if the decision were made today, certainly not at a full share IMO. And I'm not sure that UVA or UNC move the needle in terms of additive revenue that would offset a full share either. A partial share, sure - but how much more than what they get from the ACC currently?
If you look at the recent SEC and B1G additions, all have been historically "good to great" football programs, better than UVA or UNC. I'm sure there are other considerations, but the quality of the football program seems to be a constant.

 

[freescooter]

Companies file law suits to get out of contracts not necessarily expecting to win the law suit but to get their way through some sort of negotiated settlement that will get them where they want to be at a cost that is acceptable and less than the agreed upon cost in the contract. For Clemson and FSU, getting out in less than 12 years is worth paying a price. But not the price that would be required under the agreement. I don’t know what that price would be. At some point, again I don’t know what, people say too much or good enough and leave and pay the money or suck it up and stay. Don’t forget, too, that it is problematic to have 2 of your biggest
names unhappy. It makes everything much more complicated.

 

[Kolumbo]

I'm very curious to see what happens with Duke. Is their basketball a big enough brand to get them into the Big 10 or SEC? If it is, then what is Kansas doing sitting in the Big 12?

If there is anything we know for fact about CR, at least up to this point, it's that basketball means absolutely zero. Kelvin level zero. Nothing. Maybe Yormark views it as something but he has yet to act on it. We'll see.

Regarding dook, I think it is left out. Kansas is AAU and a blue blood and left out so far. scheyer has only just begun to do what he can to hoosier that program. Coach K is gone. RIP dook.

 

[ctchamps]

UVA viewership?

Virginia market. It's the school that many Virginians follow. State with a large population. Not as fanatical statewide as residents of North Carolina are to UNC.

UNC will be SEC bound. Slam dunk for that conference. I hope NC State is forced to go with them. Less competition for UConn in the B12 sweepstakes. Duke will wither on the vine along with many of the schools not in the P3.