Clemson says 'Peace Out!' to the ACC

[bendm]

I told you all last summer, UNC is shaping up to leave the ACC and will be first in line when the chips fall.

The SEC is the preferred league.

only if theyre also willing to take NC St....the state legislature did some hamstringing so either both leave or neither can leave

 

[bendm]

So it's no longer about football?

Virginia blows in football and UNC isn't much better.

it is until it isnt. BIG must also care about markets or they wouldnt have added rutgers and maryland. having said that virginia and unc dont bring in big markets either. having said that unc is a big brand. having said that theyd also have to take NC St. having said that the goal posts are always moving.

 

[The Yakk]

only if theyre also willing to take NC St....the state legislature did some hamstringing so either both leave or neither can leave

The NC Board of Trustees certainly made a lot of noise to that effect.

Not sure everyone believes they will actually enforce that when the offers come in for UNC and not for State. But we'll see, I guess.

 

[ctchamps]

So it's no longer about football?

Virginia blows in football and UNC isn't much better.

Viewership.

 

[McLovin]

So it's no longer about football?

Virginia blows in football and UNC isn't much better.

This is why as a UConn fan, this conference realignment stuff has been so infuriating. They move the goal posts and change the narrative on why they are expanding every time. Markets, football, academics/ AAU status, viewership, club quidditch, you name it.

If they want a team not named UConn and are asked to explain why they took them, they will pull the reason out of the hat. We continue to check so many boxes, only to be told they don’t matter when it’s decision time.

 

[superjohn]

Viewership.

UVA viewership?

 

[Mike75]

it is until it isnt. BIG must also care about markets or they wouldnt have added rutgers and maryland. having said that virginia and unc dont bring in big markets either. having said that unc is a big brand. having said that theyd also have to take NC St. having said that the goal posts are always moving.

Fair point, but that was also a different era before cord cutting and streaming. Neither MD or Rutgers would draw much interest if the decision were made today, certainly not at a full share IMO. And I'm not sure that UVA or UNC move the needle in terms of additive revenue that would offset a full share either. A partial share, sure - but how much more than what they get from the ACC currently?
If you look at the recent SEC and B1G additions, all have been historically "good to great" football programs, better than UVA or UNC. I'm sure there are other considerations, but the quality of the football program seems to be a constant.

 

[freescooter]

Companies file law suits to get out of contracts not necessarily expecting to win the law suit but to get their way through some sort of negotiated settlement that will get them where they want to be at a cost that is acceptable and less than the agreed upon cost in the contract. For Clemson and FSU, getting out in less than 12 years is worth paying a price. But not the price that would be required under the agreement. I don’t know what that price would be. At some point, again I don’t know what, people say too much or good enough and leave and pay the money or suck it up and stay. Don’t forget, too, that it is problematic to have 2 of your biggest
names unhappy. It makes everything much more complicated.

 

[Kolumbo]

I'm very curious to see what happens with Duke. Is their basketball a big enough brand to get them into the Big 10 or SEC? If it is, then what is Kansas doing sitting in the Big 12?

If there is anything we know for fact about CR, at least up to this point, it's that basketball means absolutely zero. Kelvin level zero. Nothing. Maybe Yormark views it as something but he has yet to act on it. We'll see.

Regarding dook, I think it is left out. Kansas is AAU and a blue blood and left out so far. scheyer has only just begun to do what he can to hoosier that program. Coach K is gone. RIP dook.

 

[ctchamps]

UVA viewership?

Virginia market. It's the school that many Virginians follow. State with a large population. Not as fanatical statewide as residents of North Carolina are to UNC.

UNC will be SEC bound. Slam dunk for that conference. I hope NC State is forced to go with them. Less competition for UConn in the B12 sweepstakes. Duke will wither on the vine along with many of the schools not in the P3.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Wouldn't that in itself invalidate the agreement?

I am not a lawyer, but in over 2 decades in finance, I have never come across a situation where thousands or millions, to say nothing of billions, are allocated based on a contract no one has a copy of. It is beyond bizarre.

 

[superjohn]

Virginia market. It's the school that many Virginians follow. State with a large population. Not as fanatical statewide as residents of North Carolina are to UNC.

UNC will be SEC bound. Slam dunk for that conference. I hope NC State is forced to go with them. Less competition for UConn in the B12 sweepstakes. Duke will wither on the vine along with many of the schools not in the P3.

I don't see that with Virginia at all, they aren't even the most popular football school in their own state. UVA probably has a decent fanbase in basketball and some non-revenue sports like lacrosse but they certainly don't move the needle.

 

[7774]

Virginia market. It's the school that many Virginians follow. State with a large population. Not as fanatical statewide as residents of North Carolina are to UNC.

UNC will be SEC bound. Slam dunk for that conference. I hope NC State is forced to go with them. Less competition for UConn in the B12 sweepstakes. Duke will wither on the vine along with many of the schools not in the P3.

I would be shocked if UNC went to the SEC. The Big Ten has wanted them for a while.

 

[Nostical]

All of this ACC turmoil is good for UConn. Ultimately, the contentious legal brickbats thrown by FSU, Clemson et al, will result in a settlement--a separation-- and a need to backfill. Benedict has always felt that after the PAC 12 collapsed and the 4 Corner Schools fell into Yormark's lap (an offer he couldn't refuse) we became a very long shot for the BIG 12, given the lack of interest by their presidents. Notwithstanding Yormark's earlier desire for our inclusion he no longer had an incentive to fight for us. Benedict knows that the ACC is actually (and ultimately) the best and most likely landing spot for us once the dust settles. UConn will not jeopardize its football program by letting it sway alone in the wilderness of "independence", nor will he consider joining a lesser conference like UMass has done. Our basketball rejuvenation has been a godsend and that move to the Big East was the necessary and critical step to ultimately moving to an all sport conference. I'd say he's paying very close attention to what's happening with our football program and to all the noise coming from Tallahassee and South Carolina. My sense is he won't be lounging (or distracted) at any Caribbean resorts for the foreseeable future.

 

[superjohn]

All of this ACC turmoil is good for UConn. Ultimately, the contentious legal brickbats thrown by FSU, Clemson et al, will result in a settlement--a separation-- and a need to backfill. Benedict has always felt that after the PAC 12 collapsed and the 4 Corner Schools fell into Yormark's lap (an offer he couldn't refuse) we became a very long shot for the BIG 12, given the lack of interest by their presidents. Notwithstanding Yormark's earlier desire for our inclusion he no longer had an incentive to fight for us. Benedict knows that the ACC is actually (and ultimately) the best and most likely landing spot for us once the dust settles. UConn will not jeopardize its football program by letting it sway alone in the wilderness of "independence", nor will he consider joining a lesser conference like UMass has done. Our basketball rejuvenation has been a godsend and that move to the Big East was the necessary and critical step to ultimately moving to an all sport conference. I'd say he's paying very close attention to what's happening with our football program and to all the noise coming from Tallahassee and South Carolina. My sense is he won't be lounging (or distracted) at any Caribbean resorts for the foreseeable future.

The ACC currently blows and they'll be that much worse once their good schools leave...they already brought in Cal, Stanford, and SMU which makes them even more revolting.

 

[freescooter]

Walk me through how finishing 7-5 in the SEC is better for Clemson than 11-1 in the ACC.

The real problem isn’t wins and losses. It is $80 million > $30 million. If a school could get Big 10 or SEC money and you told them they’d never win another game in any sport, almost every one would still make the move. Who thinks Oklahoma is going 11-1 and play for the SEC title more than 1 time per decade? Texas A&M has won exactly how many SEC WEST titles? I’m not even saying league titles.

 

[OceanDoggie]

What would it take for the Big East to re-establish itself as D1 football conference? I don't care on preferences, just curious on opinions.

 

[FlexOnEm]

I don’t disagree. I just mean, is there any evidence the SEC will take them?

No inside info, but if the SEC was to lockup those 2 they’d have every top football program in the region. I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s what they’re hoping to accomplish.

 

[goskis2018]

North Carolina is all south culturally. The academic fit with the BIG is far less important than the southern regional fit of like mindedness. The SEC will be throwing bundles to bring them in. North Carolina is the eastern equivalent of Texas for the SEC.

Virginia will be the interesting play. My money is they head to the SEC as well.

Clemson is in desperation mode. They were mediocre in football for some time prior to their recent success. I lived in South Carolina for ten years and left the second year of Dabo’s hire. Clemson was despised and laughed at by the majority of people in that state during that period of mediocrity before Sweeney’s hiring.

The longer things play out in the ACC conference the greater the chance of Clemson returning to mediocrity. The University of South Carolina and Florida Gators will vote to keep them and FSU out. FSU is likely B12 bound. Clemson will be in some private school conference unless they can get a slot with one of the big boys soon while the fires are hot.

Yup, SEC is the preferred spot for UNC. Besides the fact they it's a culturally southern state, the financial/reputational difference between the P2 but the travel element is a major plus for the SEC vs. Big 10. No need to fly softball out to the west coast.

 

[freescooter]

Yup, SEC is the preferred spot for UNC. Besides the fact they it's a culturally southern state, the financial/reputational difference between the P2 but the travel element is a major plus for the SEC vs. Big 10. No need to fly softball out to the west coast.

It is true about the STATE of North Carolina. Not so sure it is true of the UNIVERSITY of North Carolina. Nor the Triangle. Not sure how it all eventually plays out, but I’d say NCState would be a better cultural fit. I know they are practically across the street, but State is a different culture than UNC.

 

[Kolumbo]

Yup, SEC is the preferred spot for UNC. Besides the fact they it's a culturally southern state, the financial/reputational difference between the P2 but the travel element is a major plus for the SEC vs. Big 10. No need to fly softball out to the west coast.

Obviously not a factor but I'd imagine UNC Soccer would end up in the Sun Belt with Kentucky, South Carolina, WVU. That would be strange.

 

[Jimdish255]

This Clemson/FSU legal action is one of the more surreal cases I have ever seen. The entire case hinges on a contract that none of the members have an actual copy of.

That should be grounds enough for an annulment. Can't expect to abide by a contract you don't even have.

 

[UConnJim]

I am not a lawyer, but in over 2 decades in finance, I have never come across a situation where thousands or millions, to say nothing of billions, are allocated based on a contract no one has a copy of. It is beyond bizarre.

I'm not a lawyer, but it is bizarre. That said, not having a copy of a contract doesn't invalidate a contract. Still, I would think that large state entities would require a copy of a contract for audits, etc.

 

[giddyup]

Little chance they are successful on the merits absent a showing there was fraud in the inducement…intentional concealment of material facts that go to the basis of the bargain. Unconscionability requires such a gross disparity that is approaches immorality… shocks the conscious. With sophisticated parties negotiating the agreement, it would be tall order. The purpose is to harass and drive the conference to negotiate rather than risk an unexpected outcome.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

Walk me through how finishing 7-5 in the SEC is better for Clemson than 11-1 in the ACC.

Do re mi