Caron Butler on how former players view UConn

[BlueMAB]

Most people aren't defending Ollie. They are saying the school handled it incorrectly. There's a big difference there.

The argument is over money, and everyone saying the school handled it incorrectly is basically arguing the violations weren't a big deal, and/or he would have been fired anyway.

Fine.

If even one of you were honest, you'd accept/admit/acknowledge that without violations, he would have been paid.

But then you'd have nothing to argue about.

See how that still works?

I think we are still technically on probation this year and down one scholarship.

We are.

 

[casual-yardin]

The argument is over money, and everyone saying the school handled it incorrectly is basically arguing the violations weren't a big deal, and/or he would have been fired anyway.

Fine.

If even one of you were honest, you'd accept/admit/acknowledge that without violations, he would have been paid.

But then you'd have nothing to argue about.

See how that still works?



We are.

Saying the school didn't handle it correctly is not the same thing as saying he should have been paid or that the violations weren't a big deal.

 

[BlueMAB]

Saying the school didn't handle it correctly is not the same thing as saying he should have been paid or that the violations weren't a big deal.

Okay, what exactly are they saying the school didn't do correctly then?

Aside from refusing to pay him.

And yes, people have definitely argued the violations were minor, and he should have been paid. I don't know what you've been reading the past 10 pages.

 

[BLUEDOGHOUSE]

Just a sore spot - I spent 26 years working with kids like Caron - some with positive outcomes, some not. Caron's story was inspiring to some of them - showed they could turn things around and leave that life behind. When someone dismisses a man for what he did as a kid just sets me off.

Do you know James Greene? Connecticut Prison Association lead attorney for the Legal Assistance to Prisoners program. He is/was a visionary. A great youth advocate that helped turn lives around. Also a coach.

 

[UofCT]

Rikos > Colony. Pizza is just better at rikos

 

[Kathy]

Do you know James Greene? Connecticut Prison Association lead attorney for the Legal Assistance to Prisoners program. He is/was a visionary. A great youth advocate that helped turn lives around. Also a coach.

Dont know him personally but know of him.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

2013-2016 Ollie was a great coach that could have kept UConn afloat until it got back to the Big East where he would have thrived. 2018 Ollie was mailing it in and deserved to be canned.

 

[UCDaveD]

2013-2016 Ollie was a great coach that could have kept UConn afloat until it got back to the Big East where he would have thrived. 2018 Ollie was mailing it in and deserved to be canned.

No one should dispute this.

 

[Madmannsucks]

Drug dealer at 15. In juvenile detention at 15. Turned his life around but they don’t put you in juice as a rewsrd

This post is an embarrassment to the board.

 

[8893]

The argument is over money, and everyone defending Ollie is basically arguing the violations weren't a big deal, and/or he would have been fired anyway.

Fine.

If even one of you were honest, you'd accept/admit/acknowledge that without violations, he would have been paid.

But then you'd have nothing to argue about.

I believe there are at least three points on which most agree:

1. If he wasn't losing, he wouldn't have been fired.

2. He was losing--badly--and he deserved to be fired.

3. NCAA violations were committed under his watch, for which he was responsible, and for which the university had the right to fire him.

The "we really mean it this time" contract provision re NCAA violations sounds great in theory, but on paper the language reads the same as it did when, well, we might not have meant it--or enforced it--as much. Was this reinforced orally to Ollie? That's what UConn says. I don't know what Ollie says about that.

The reason some posters are alluding to history with former players is because context matters. We don't know what they know re prior conduct. But they do.

 

[DMIL]

Could not disagree more. The school adhered to contract, Kevin did not. UConn is neither morally nor legally at fault here.

Think about it this way Funster. I'm not sure what you do for a living but if you 1) broke the law (or violated regulatory rules if you prefer) in your job, repeatedly; 2) lied to your bosses about it, repeatedly; 3) got caught and then lied to an outside regulatory agency, repeatedly and 4) all of that resulted in your employer getting sanctioned, you would get fired for cause 10 times out of 10. Why should that be any different with Kevin Ollie?

Why is it different for any other UCONN COACH or coach period? Maybe winning vs. losing? Who really knows. Just call it what it is and cut all of the hypocritical non-sense. These former players know the deal man and they are not stupid. Just call it what it is. UCONN simply decided to do what it felt it needed to do. This is the collateral damage. We choose to believe what we need to justify B.S. Let's stop acting like the school handled this situation ethically and above board in spirit. The school has moved on and we will have to continue to pay the cost for this. And yes the COST is the COST whatever that ends up being.

 

[DMIL]

I believe there are at least three points on which most agree:

1. If he wasn't losing, he wouldn't have been fired.

2. He was losing--badly--and he deserved to be fired.

3. NCAA violations were committed under his watch, for which he was responsible, and for which the university had the right to fire him.

The "we really mean it this time" contract provision re NCAA violations sounds great in theory, but on paper the language reads the same as it did when, well, we might not have meant it--or enforced it--as much. Was this reinforced orally to Ollie? That's what UConn says. I don't know what Ollie says about that.

The reason some posters are alluding to history with former players is because context matters. We don't know what they know re prior conduct. But they do.

The players do know and the hypocrisy is what smells and not reconcilable until the situation is fixed by the school.

 

[DMIL]

Hello Hans. Not sure I understand your proposed question. Would you like me to respond to the argument that KO was fired for both losing and for cause?

I hope you are an attorney my friend. There are quite a few on this board.

 

[DMIL]

You're allowed to have whatever opinion you want. Personally, I'm embarrassed that some of our most famous alums don't want anything to do with us right now. That's not going to change any time soon, and it bothers me.

As it should and it should bother all of us.

 

[jibsey]

Is it possible that all of these players who played for Jim Calhoun saw things that were equal or even worse than what KO did? And there were no consequences. Not defending KO here but the players witnessed a lot that we are not aware of through the years my guess.

 

[TheChamps990411]

Caron is full of it. Ill leave it at that.

 

[DMIL]

Do you work for the University in some capacity? I feel like I'm dealing with UCONN's public relations department. Maybe you're on the AAUP legal team?

I think you are on to something here.....

 

[superjohn]

It's not okay for anyone to make comments about any of our former legendary players but it's okay for people to allude to our legendary coach as a cheater. Got it.

 

[DMIL]

You are better than this. Much better.

I listened to the podcast. Caron completely sidesteps the issues of violations, show cause, penalties against the University etc. as if none of it exists. His position is simply "pay the guy" no matter what the circumstances were. Expecting intelligent people who see the whole picture to agree with a former player who chooses to gloss over most of the pertinent details isn't realistic. If you did that in your profession, it would be considered malpractice, wouldn't it?

He doesn't side step anything and knows how it worked at UCONN. The hypocrisy stinks. These players know; they were insiders.

 

[CL82]

Just call it what it is.

A breach of contract?

 

[BlueMAB]

I believe there are at least three points on which most agree:

1. If he wasn't losing, he wouldn't have been fired.

2. He was losing--badly--and he deserved to be fired.

3. NCAA violations were committed under his watch, for which he was responsible, and for which the university had the right to fire him.

The "we really mean it this time" contract provision re NCAA violations sounds great in theory, but on paper the language reads the same as it did when, well, we might not have meant it--or enforced it--as much. Was this reinforced orally to Ollie? That's what UConn says. I don't know what Ollie says about that.

The reason some posters are alluding to history with former players is because context matters. We don't know what they know re prior conduct. But they do.

I’ll refer you to my post about the NCAA treating UConn differently at the end of Calhoun’s tenure and the beginning of Ollie’s.
The landscape is/was different for UConn after the post-season ban. Also, Ollie inherited a program on probation, and within 5 years had that program in danger of being back on probation.

I’m not naive about what may have occurred at UConn. But most of those arguing UConn is in the wrong are ignoring the fact that the NCAA literally went out of its way to
ban us form the postseason. While jumping through hoops to protect other programs who have done worse.

So yes. Context matters.

edit... and i don’t think I’ve seen one person who argues that Ollie should get paid admit that had he not cheated and lied about it, he would have been paid.

like I said earlier. The argument is about money. you can argue UConn would have fired him without the violations. Who cares? They would have had to pay him, and there wouldn’t be an argument. The only argument is whether he deserves the full amount or not. Because we don’t know what settlement offers were made and rejected, and by which side.

 

[tentoes4rings]

Some of the former players not wanting to be involved with the school now is interesting to say the least. We’ve had several discussions on how little our famous former players have donated to the school. When the school was raising money to have the best facilities possible to compete with other programs, most of our players were nowhere to be found. I think the Ollie scandal is just a lame excuse for some of the non contributing players to keep their distance.

 

[Deadrody]

Is it possible that all of these players who played for Jim Calhoun saw things that were equal or even worse than what KO did? And there were no consequences. Not defending KO here but the players witnessed a lot that we are not aware of through the years my guess.

Possible ? Yes. Problem is, until someone SAYS that, then it's nonsensical supposition and nothing more.

 

[Deadrody]

He doesn't side step anything and knows how it worked at UCONN. The hypocrisy stinks. These players know; they were insiders.

You can keep asserting this, but nobody has actually SAID it, so your assumption is pure BS

 

[nelsonmuntz]

You can keep asserting this, but nobody has actually SAID it, so your assumption is pure BS

Deadrody knows how the former UConn players should feel better than the former UConn players. Got it.

 

[Northbound]

He doesn't side step anything and knows how it worked at UCONN. The hypocrisy stinks. These players know; they were insiders.

Even if this was true - things can and do change - guys have to come to grips with that.

 

[UCDaveD]

Is Caron even relevant to today's recruits? If it was Kemba saying this, then it might matter. Outside of UConn fans, does anyone even care what Caron Butler says?

 

[NC_Uconn_Fan]

Is Caron even relevant to today's recruits? If it was Kemba saying this, then it might matter. Outside of UConn fans, does anyone even care what Caron Butler says?

No, he played for the school before they were born.

 

[Kathy]

Is Caron even relevant to today's recruits? If it was Kemba saying this, then it might matter. Outside of UConn fans, does anyone even care what Caron Butler says?

Really - that must be why Hurley invited him to come talk to the team. Hurley must love having irrelevant people talk to his players.

 

[jibsey]

This whole thing needs to be cut out and go in the rear view mirror today. How do they not get this even if they think they are right?