Caron Butler on how former players view UConn | Page 4 | The Boneyard

Caron Butler on how former players view UConn

WingU-Conn said:
It's never acceptable to lose to Northeastern and Wagner in back to back games for a program like UConn.

That's a ridiculously low bar to set for a guy you think deserves $10mm for cheating AND losing.
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I agree, it's not acceptable. But I thought we were debating the likelihood of it happening, as a BE team vs. an AAC team, and how it relates to KO being fired for losing.
 
XLCenterFan said:
I agree, it's not acceptable. But I thought we were debating the likelihood of it happening, as a BE team vs. an AAC team, and how it relates to KO being fired?
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No. All BE/AAC teams are not the same.

Unless you think ECU fans have the same expectations of their program as UConn fans do.

Or that Depaul fans expect the same results as Villanova fans.
 
XLCenterFan said:
To me, it matters somewhat. UCONN fired KO for losing. UCONN said they fired KO for breach of contract. If they said they fired him for losing, they would owe him his money. If they said they fired him for breach of contract, they don't owe him his money. I don't like that UCONN is putting up this charade of firing him for breach of contract when we all know he was losing his job for losing. I also don't like that Ollie is often blamed for the losing, when we all knew the realty of playing in the American - less talent, less TV time, less fanbase interest - which eventually led to less winning. This whole situation is just a mess. With us going back into the BE, it's like a fresh start. We need to get rid of this storm cloud, and I feel the best way to do so is to just pay him off and we go our separate ways. They are squabbling over amounts that are relatively small compared to the budgets of the state/school/athletic dept., and while this stays in court, it is costing everyone resources (including our time/energy here on the BY!). Let's move on.
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I've read every one of your posts in this thread. They are consistent, and they are incomplete.

What is your considered reply to the following statement?

Kevin Ollie was fired for losing, and he was fired for cause for violating terms of his contract.

To my view, the legal case, the arbitration, and any settlement talks will confine themselves to the emphasized portion of the above statement. With all of your confidence and clarity, you have remained silent on this distinction.

I am hoping to have added to your enjoyment of the friendly and healthy discussion/debate.
 
Hans Sprungfeld said:
I've read every one of your posts in this thread. They are consistent, and they are incomplete.

What is your considered reply to the following statement?

Kevin Ollie was fired for losing, and he was fired for cause for violating terms of his contract.

To my view, the legal case, the arbitration, and any settlement talks will confine themselves to the emphasized portion of the above statement. With all of your confidence and clarity, you have remained silent on this distinction.

I am hoping to have added to your enjoyment of the friendly and healthy discussion/debate.
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Hello Hans. Not sure I understand your proposed question. Would you like me to respond to the argument that KO was fired for both losing and for cause?
 
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WingU-Conn said:
No. All BE/AAC teams are not the same.

Unless you think ECU fans have the same expectations of their program as UConn fans do.

Or that Depaul fans expect the same results as Villanova fans.
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Ok, fill in the blank.

It will be __________ for UCONN to beat lower ranked teams (or any team) as a member of the AAC, when compared to being a member of the BE.

a-easier
b-harder
c-just as easy
 
XLCenterFan said:
I'm not the overly litigious type. In life, there's the contract, and there's what you SHOULD do. I've had plenty of dealings with people where the contract (or agreement) gets informally renegotiated or simply ripped up after facts or situations change.

We all know that if Ollie was winning, the school would have probably his defended his violations.

This is not a good look for UCONN, and I hope Danny looked Benedict in the eye before he came on and told him: "none of these stunts with me pal." Instead of dragging this out and paying lawyers, just pay Ollie, and let's keep it moving. Sometimes, even when you don't want to, you have to pay someone off and put it behind you. Ollie is family, right? Families don't pull this stuff on each other. I have Ollie's back in this spot.
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You have Ollie's back. Hilarious. That does him exactly zero good. He isn't getting another dime and he deserves nothing. He was vastly overpaid for the little he did his last couple years. UConn lost by 20 or more points 8 times in Ollie's final season. In the HISTORY of the program there has never been another season with more than 5 losses of 20 points or more. The guy had all but stopped doing his job completely...and you want to pay him for 3 more seasons.
 
XLCenterFan said:
Ok, fill in the blank.

It will be __________ for UCONN to beat lower ranked teams (or any team) as a member of the AAC, when compared to being a member of the BE.

a-easier
b-harder
c-just as easy
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C, what do I win? ;)
 
Huskybass said:
You have Ollie's back. Hilarious. That does him exactly zero good. He isn't getting another dime and he deserves nothing. He was vastly overpaid for the little he did his last couple years. UConn lost by 20 or more points 8 times in Ollie's final season. In the HISTORY of the program there has never been another season with more than 5 losses of 20 points or more. The guy had all but stopped doing his job completely...and you want to pay him for 3 more seasons.
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I'm trying to wrap my head around the fact he thinks UConn "should" pay him, but that Ollie "shouldn't" abide by the contract he signed.
 
I continue to be amazed that someone hasn't been able to broker a deal to put this to bed given the ripple effect it has had and continues to have the longer it remains unresolved. I knew Ray was in a funk about it but I wasn't aware of the extent to which it has apparently chilled relationships with other former players. I mean, as a simple business/goodwill proposition it just screams for resolution. We want these guys to continue to be proud ambassadors of the University and it sounds like that's not the case right now. Yes, I know the money has to come from somewhere and that's easier said than done, but someone should be able to make the connection between resolving this and courting more contributions from some of our NBA guys.

It's getting to the point where I wonder whether the program will ever be "healed" unless and until this resolves in a way that is perceived to be "fair" to KO, whatever that is.
 
Huskyforlife said:
Did anyone expect Butler to say anything different? Everyone knows Ollie was a terrible coach, his friends are never going to admit that.
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OK, the problem is his "friends" are going to be less inclined to provide support for the program. They are turning away from the program. That is a problem.
 
I do not fault his friends for backing him, but UCONN should not pay him if he violated the terms of his contract. This is not trivial money - this is real taxpayer money that the university needs to account for. I support a major donor kicking in to make KO whole (full disclosure - I love KO), but UCONN should not pay.
 
Anyone that believes it wouldn’t be better to have our NBA alums and other players around and supporting the program is wrong. We need that back. Should take that into account and get this behind us.
 
8893 said:
It's getting to the point where I wonder whether the program will ever be "healed" unless and until this resolves in a way that is perceived to be "fair" to KO, whatever that is.
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While I understand what you are saying, the odds of that ever happening are extremely poor. I would be shocked to ever see KO as part of UConn basketball family again. I don't mean to be a pessimist, but this has just gotten too ugly to ever be repaired, in my opinion.
 
Huskybass said:
While I understand what you are saying, the odds of that ever happening are extremely poor. I would be shocked to ever see KO as part of UConn basketball family again. I don't mean to be a pessimist, but this has just gotten too ugly to ever be repaired, in my opinion.
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I suppose the most awkward moment will be JC's funeral. I mean considering his age, medical history, etc....so many former players will be there. I am not looking ahead, just thinking out loud.
 
XLCenterFan said:
The answer is B, so you win nothing. And you didn't provide any rationale for your answer.
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Your opinion.

Hurley is catching hell for losing to two conference opponents on the road (where he admittedly deserves some criticism) while posters like you ignore losing back to back games to teams from the Colonial and the NEC "because of the AAC".

The answer is C. Because whether we're in the AAC or not, we have the facilities, tradition, and resources to attract a far higher caliber of recruit.
 
UConnDad said:
Anyone that believes it wouldn’t be better to have our NBA alums and other players around and supporting the program is wrong. We need that back. Should take that into account and get this behind us.
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Are they worth $10MM?

No.

We have a coach that has invited them back. Practically begged through the media. If they want to spite the program in defense of their guy, that's their decision.

Did anyone even make the argument that we're better off without them?
 
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Madmannsucks said:
I suppose the most awkward moment will be JC's funeral. I mean considering his age, medical history, etc....so many former players will be there. I am not looking ahead, just thinking out loud.
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Weird thing to bring up and no Ollie isn't going to skip Calhoun's funeral, he's not that bad a guy.
 
8893 said:
I continue to be amazed that someone hasn't been able to broker a deal to put this to bed given the ripple effect it has had and continues to have the longer it remains unresolved. I knew Ray was in a funk about it but I wasn't aware of the extent to which it has apparently chilled relationships with other former players. I mean, as a simple business/goodwill proposition it just screams for resolution. We want these guys to continue to be proud ambassadors of the University and it sounds like that's not the case right now. Yes, I know the money has to come from somewhere and that's easier said than done, but someone should be able to make the connection between resolving this and courting more contributions from some of our NBA guys.

It's getting to the point where I wonder whether the program will ever be "healed" unless and until this resolves in a way that is perceived to be "fair" to KO, whatever that is.
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UConn says KO breached the contract; was fired for cause and thus under its terms he due no more payments. KO believes that he should be paid as if he was not fired for cause. (An oft forgotten note is that UConn paid KO for 6 months (I think) after he was fired. So he's already gotten $1.5M as de facto severance.)

If Kevin left right away without the adverse publicity a settlement would have had more value to UConn. At this point, not so much. Given the relative merits of the parties' positions, what do you believe to be a reasonable resolution at this point in time?
 

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