Caron Butler on how former players view UConn

[gampelcrazies]

That you could make the leap to say you know KO more than the ex players who know him in on a personal level is wild as hell to me.

You really think Caron was that close to KO? I understand why he sticks up for him because he's a "UConn brother". But he hasn't been around all the much to understand the situation.

Ray Allen on the other hand was always close to KO because they played together and he was a part of the foundation.

I've talked with people close to the program. I think they know more than Caron Butler.

 

[Silky J]

You talk such nonsense, where was Ollie going to leave to after 2014? Ollie didn't scramble for Gilbert and he wasn't damaged goods. Gilbert was a healthy McDonald's All-American type player when Ollie secured his pledge.

What are all these other offers Ollie had? UConn walked away from the contract because Ollie broke the terms of the contract by breaking NCAA rules, lying about it to UConn and the NCAA and he stopped doing his job.

Lakers were in the mix

 

[XLCenterFan]

Lakers were in the mix

Wasn't the head/assistant coaching job at OKC in the mix?

 

[Excalibur]

Why don't you pick a coherent position, and then we can debate. On one hand, the current players are bad, but apparently the recruiting under Ollie was excellent. Which is it?

And are you arguing the AAC was good for UConn basketball?

Why don't you pay attention to what people say vs. what they don't say?

 

[HuskyHawk]

I don't believe you - you know he got fired for losing...but I enjoy the healthy and friendly discussion/debate.

Why he was fired is irrelevant. Since he breached his contract they don't have to pay him. If they couldn't have fired him for cause, my guess is he would get another year. So I don't understand your argument. But they could, so they did.

 

[XLCenterFan]

Why he was fired is irrelevant. Since he breached his contract they don't have to pay him. If they couldn't have fired him for cause, my guess is he would get another year. So I don't understand your argument. But they could, so they did.

To me, it matters somewhat. UCONN fired KO for losing. UCONN said they fired KO for breach of contract. If they said they fired him for losing, they would owe him his money. If they said they fired him for breach of contract, they don't owe him his money. I don't like that UCONN is putting up this charade of firing him for breach of contract when we all know he was losing his job for losing. I also don't like that Ollie is often blamed for the losing, when we all knew the realty of playing in the American - less talent, less TV time, less fanbase interest - which eventually led to less winning. This whole situation is just a mess. With us going back into the BE, it's like a fresh start. We need to get rid of this storm cloud, and I feel the best way to do so is to just pay him off and we go our separate ways. They are squabbling over amounts that are relatively small compared to the budgets of the state/school/athletic dept., and while this stays in court, it is costing everyone resources (including our time/energy here on the BY!). Let's move on.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

Who on the board has turned on Caron Butler?

Who turned on "Rashard"?

 

[BlueMAB]

I also don't like that Ollie is often blamed for the losing, when we all knew the realty of playing in the American - less talent, less TV time, less fanbase interest - which eventually led to less winning.

The guy lost to Wagner and Northeastern in back to back games. What conferences do they play in?

 

[XLCenterFan]

The guy lost to Wagner and Northeastern in back to back games. What conferences do they play in?

So you are arguing that moving from the BE to the AAC would not diminish anything about our program, including the ability to recruit and win? As soon as I heard the news, my expectations were tamed concerning what UCONN hoops was going to be capable of.

 

[BlueMAB]

To me, it matters somewhat. UCONN fired KO for losing. UCONN said they fired KO for breach of contract. If they said they fired him for losing, they would owe him his money. If they said they fired him for breach of contract, they don't owe him his money. I don't like that UCONN is putting up this charade of firing him for breach of contract when we all know he was losing his job for losing. I also don't like that Ollie is often blamed for the losing, when we all knew the realty of playing in the American - less talent, less TV time, less fanbase interest - which eventually led to less winning. This whole situation is just a mess. With us going back into the BE, it's like a fresh start. We need to get rid of this storm cloud, and I feel the best way to do so is to just pay him off and we go our separate ways. They are squabbling over amounts that are relatively small compared to the budgets of the state/school/athletic dept., and while this stays in court, it is costing everyone resources (including our time/energy here on the BY!). Let's move on.

We'll never know, but it's entirely plausible UConn doesn't fire him without the violations due to financial constraints. Seeing that they could get out of the contract because he breached it, that could have changed the decision.

If you're going to argue about the right vs. wrong things to do, you can't ignore the wrong that Ollie did to violate his contract. He put the money owed to him at risk with his actions. Putting this all on UConn as if they're just being cheap is disingenuous and hypocritical.

Had Ollie done the right thing and honored his contract, one of two things would have happened. He would have remained the coach, or he would have been fired and paid the $10MM.

 

[BlueMAB]

So you are arguing that moving from the BE to the AAC would not diminish anything about our program, including the ability to recruit and win? As soon as I heard the news, my expectations were tamed concerning what UCONN hoops was going to be capable of.

Are you arguing that moving to the AAC would remove any expectations of being able to beat Northeastern and/or Wagner at home?

 

[CL82]

I don't believe you - you know he got fired for losing...but I enjoy the healthy and friendly discussion/debate.

Lol feel free not to, but you're wrong. He got fired for repeatedly lying about NCAA violations and for repeated lying about them both to UConn and to the NCAA.

To me, it matters somewhat. UCONN fired KO for losing. UCONN said they fired KO for breach of contract. If they said they fired him for losing, they would owe him his money. If they said they fired him for breach of contract, they don't owe him his money. I don't like that UCONN is putting up this charade of firing him for breach of contract when we all know he was losing his job for losing. I also don't like that Ollie is often blamed for the losing, when we all knew the realty of playing in the American - less talent, less TV time, less fanbase interest - which eventually led to less winning. This whole situation is just a mess. With us going back into the BE, it's like a fresh start. We need to get rid of this storm cloud, and I feel the best way to do so is to just pay him off and we go our separate ways. They are squabbling over amounts that are relatively small compared to the budgets of the state/school/athletic dept., and while this stays in court, it is costing everyone resources (including our time/energy here on the BY!). Let's move on.

Lol it's always easy to pay people off with other people's money. As I've said previously, any UConn official who paid KO $10M he wasn't lawfully entitled to, should be fired. It just does not happen, anywhere. You keep trying to analogize this to something like you being made at your neighbor's kid for not mowing your yard. Under those circumstances, you pay the kid $50 anyways and tell him you've found someone else. The analysis is dramatically different for multimillion dollar contracts.

 

[XLCenterFan]

Are you arguing that moving to the AAC would remove any expectations of being able to beat Northeastern and/or Wagner at home?

Yes, that is precisely what I am arguing. But it wouldn't remove the expectations, just lower them.

I would argue that UCONN (or any school for that matter) is more likely to lose to a school like Northeastern or Wagner as a member of the AAC, then they would be as a member of the BE. It's just a hunch, but I bet a study could be done of "performance of random BE teams vs. random AAC teams, when playing at home vs. a certain RPI." I wish I had the time/resources.

 

[NC_Uconn_Fan]

Who cares, I only care about getting our program back to winning now. If Caron or Ray (and I love Ray) or any other ex player wants to distance themselves...Go ahead. For the love of God, can we please beat Tulane tonight.

 

[BlueMAB]

Yes, that is precisely what I am arguing. But it wouldn't remove the expectations, just lower them.

It's never acceptable to lose to Northeastern and Wagner in back to back games for a program like UConn.

That's a ridiculously low bar to set for a guy you think deserves $10mm for cheating AND losing.

 

[XLCenterFan]

It's never acceptable to lose to Northeastern and Wagner in back to back games for a program like UConn.

That's a ridiculously low bar to set for a guy you think deserves $10mm for cheating AND losing.

I agree, it's not acceptable. But I thought we were debating the likelihood of it happening, as a BE team vs. an AAC team, and how it relates to KO being fired for losing.

 

[BlueMAB]

I agree, it's not acceptable. But I thought we were debating the likelihood of it happening, as a BE team vs. an AAC team, and how it relates to KO being fired?

No. All BE/AAC teams are not the same.

Unless you think ECU fans have the same expectations of their program as UConn fans do.

Or that Depaul fans expect the same results as Villanova fans.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

To me, it matters somewhat. UCONN fired KO for losing. UCONN said they fired KO for breach of contract. If they said they fired him for losing, they would owe him his money. If they said they fired him for breach of contract, they don't owe him his money. I don't like that UCONN is putting up this charade of firing him for breach of contract when we all know he was losing his job for losing. I also don't like that Ollie is often blamed for the losing, when we all knew the realty of playing in the American - less talent, less TV time, less fanbase interest - which eventually led to less winning. This whole situation is just a mess. With us going back into the BE, it's like a fresh start. We need to get rid of this storm cloud, and I feel the best way to do so is to just pay him off and we go our separate ways. They are squabbling over amounts that are relatively small compared to the budgets of the state/school/athletic dept., and while this stays in court, it is costing everyone resources (including our time/energy here on the BY!). Let's move on.

I've read every one of your posts in this thread. They are consistent, and they are incomplete.

What is your considered reply to the following statement?

Kevin Ollie was fired for losing, and he was fired for cause for violating terms of his contract.

To my view, the legal case, the arbitration, and any settlement talks will confine themselves to the emphasized portion of the above statement. With all of your confidence and clarity, you have remained silent on this distinction.

I am hoping to have added to your enjoyment of the friendly and healthy discussion/debate.

 

[XLCenterFan]

I've read every one of your posts in this thread. They are consistent, and they are incomplete.

What is your considered reply to the following statement?

Kevin Ollie was fired for losing, and he was fired for cause for violating terms of his contract.

To my view, the legal case, the arbitration, and any settlement talks will confine themselves to the emphasized portion of the above statement. With all of your confidence and clarity, you have remained silent on this distinction.

I am hoping to have added to your enjoyment of the friendly and healthy discussion/debate.

Hello Hans. Not sure I understand your proposed question. Would you like me to respond to the argument that KO was fired for both losing and for cause?

 

[Stainmaster]

Who on the board has turned on Caron Butler?

It’s on its way to happening ITT.

 

[XLCenterFan]

No. All BE/AAC teams are not the same.

Unless you think ECU fans have the same expectations of their program as UConn fans do.

Or that Depaul fans expect the same results as Villanova fans.

Ok, fill in the blank.

It will be __________ for UCONN to beat lower ranked teams (or any team) as a member of the AAC, when compared to being a member of the BE.

a-easier
b-harder
c-just as easy

 

[maineuconnfan]

why don’t you give him the money if u think he deserved it? you can get together with others who feel similarly and create a go fund me page. Problem solved.

thats an interesting respons

 

[Huskybass]

I'm not the overly litigious type. In life, there's the contract, and there's what you SHOULD do. I've had plenty of dealings with people where the contract (or agreement) gets informally renegotiated or simply ripped up after facts or situations change.

We all know that if Ollie was winning, the school would have probably his defended his violations.

This is not a good look for UCONN, and I hope Danny looked Benedict in the eye before he came on and told him: "none of these stunts with me pal." Instead of dragging this out and paying lawyers, just pay Ollie, and let's keep it moving. Sometimes, even when you don't want to, you have to pay someone off and put it behind you. Ollie is family, right? Families don't pull this stuff on each other. I have Ollie's back in this spot.

You have Ollie's back. Hilarious. That does him exactly zero good. He isn't getting another dime and he deserves nothing. He was vastly overpaid for the little he did his last couple years. UConn lost by 20 or more points 8 times in Ollie's final season. In the HISTORY of the program there has never been another season with more than 5 losses of 20 points or more. The guy had all but stopped doing his job completely...and you want to pay him for 3 more seasons.

 

[BlueMAB]

Ok, fill in the blank.

It will be __________ for UCONN to beat lower ranked teams (or any team) as a member of the AAC, when compared to being a member of the BE.

a-easier
b-harder
c-just as easy

C, what do I win?

 

[BlueMAB]

You have Ollie's back. Hilarious. That does him exactly zero good. He isn't getting another dime and he deserves nothing. He was vastly overpaid for the little he did his last couple years. UConn lost by 20 or more points 8 times in Ollie's final season. In the HISTORY of the program there has never been another season with more than 5 losses of 20 points or more. The guy had all but stopped doing his job completely...and you want to pay him for 3 more seasons.

I'm trying to wrap my head around the fact he thinks UConn "should" pay him, but that Ollie "shouldn't" abide by the contract he signed.

 

[8893]

I continue to be amazed that someone hasn't been able to broker a deal to put this to bed given the ripple effect it has had and continues to have the longer it remains unresolved. I knew Ray was in a funk about it but I wasn't aware of the extent to which it has apparently chilled relationships with other former players. I mean, as a simple business/goodwill proposition it just screams for resolution. We want these guys to continue to be proud ambassadors of the University and it sounds like that's not the case right now. Yes, I know the money has to come from somewhere and that's easier said than done, but someone should be able to make the connection between resolving this and courting more contributions from some of our NBA guys.

It's getting to the point where I wonder whether the program will ever be "healed" unless and until this resolves in a way that is perceived to be "fair" to KO, whatever that is.

 

[UConnStats]

I’m thankful that the KO debate is being rehashed. It’s a good reminder that some things can be even less enjoyable than watching UConn’s offense in its current state.

 

[XLCenterFan]

C, what do I win?

The answer is B, so you win nothing. And you didn't provide any rationale for your answer.

 

[Dooooooomed]

Please move thread to the Ollie sub-forum.

 

[Huskyforlife]

Did anyone expect Butler to say anything different? Everyone knows Ollie was a terrible coach, his friends are never going to admit that.