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Carlton

Doctor Hoop

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You are talking about freshman year under Ollie but Hurley should have noticed sooner?? He was overmatched and looked like he didn't belong his freshman and sophomore year. His feet and novements were ok like you said but his skill and basketball ability was severely lacking. Credit Whaley for staying with it and becoming a good player. That doesn't happen overnight though. Chances are he wasn't playable for major minutes until around the time he started getting major minutes.
I disagree with your assessment. Also, what, Hurley didn’t watch film of the team he’s taking over? Or give everyone a full look in preseason?

Adding to this, his freshman year stats included 56% from the field on 2 point shots, 68% on free throws, 30 blocks, 12 starts and 14 minutes per game playing in all 30 games. I’ll take that from a lightly recruited freshman big.
 
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nelsonmuntz

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Regarding 2 bigs on the court at once, wasn't there a UConn coach that won a National Championship while playing 2 of Emeka Okafor, Charlie Villanueva and Josh Boone at the same time? What was that coach's name?
 

cohenzone

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Next step is for Hurley to get teams to succeed.
Not disagreeing, but it does kinda depend on what “succeed” means. This years team was not going to win an NC with or without Josh Carlton who also had his good games here under Hurley. Everyone is making a big deal over losing in the round of 64 when only UConn fans notice the difference between losing then or in the Sweet Sixteen and even then there would be a bunch of Yarders bitching. A lot of fans can’t even remember who won last year’s NC. Hurley isn’t perfect by a long shot, but on the other hand he had a team weak in jump shooting take 3rd in the BE and into the dance. Maybe that reflects a recruiting issue or getting too excited about bringing in a super athlete whose big weakness is pretty important in hoops. Would Carlton have been a difference maker to our record or tourney success? We’ll never know but I doubt it.
 
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I disagree with your assessment. Also, what, Hurley didn’t watch film of the team he’s taking over? Or give everyone a full look in preseason?

Adding to this, his freshman year stats included 56% from the field on 2 point shots, 68% on free throws, 30 blocks, 12 starts and 14 minutes per game playing in all 30 games. I’ll take that from a lightly recruited freshman big.
Maybe you should both scout and coach the team. Hurley watched film and at the time was PRAISED for not making Whaley transfer because he was choosing culture. You are obviously a basketball savant. You noticed Whaley had potential before Ollie, Hurley, and every other person with eyes in the state.
 
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Regarding 2 bigs on the court at once, wasn't there a UConn coach that won a National Championship while playing 2 of Emeka Okafor, Charlie Villanueva and Josh Boone at the same time? What was that coach's name?
Also, we dont have those 3 guys patrolling our interior these days.
 

nelsonmuntz

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That was 2004. The game has changed since then a tad.

True. Since then, there has been a lot of misinterpreting analytics resulting in poorly designed offenses at all levels of basketball.
 
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True. Since then, there has been a lot of misinterpreting analytics resulting in poorly designed offenses at all levels of basketball.
? Vague, passive aggressive....saying nothing or something? Who knows...
 

gtcam

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Carlton at 5 with Sanogo at the 4? Too plodding on defense and too clogging for offense. You are wondering if Clingan fits but you want to play Sanogo and Carlton together?
Sanogo needs to play the 4 if he wants to play basketball at the highest level after UConn. You saw it last year and DH is hurting him playing him at the 5. He needs to develop a mid range game and workable handle. If you read all the scouting reports they nearly all state he will not play 5 in the NBA. Much like Charlie V, Jeff A, Hilton and others. Even 5s in the NBA have a mid range game and many have 3 pt ability. Sanogo plays with his back to the basket. Save that for the 7 footers. Sanogo is limited offensively and needs to expand his game. He has the athletic ability.
 
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Sanogo needs to play the 4 if he wants to play basketball at the highest level after UConn. You saw it last year and DH is hurting him playing him at the 5. He needs to develop a mid range game and workable handle. If you read all the scouting reports they nearly all state he will not play 5 in the NBA. Much like Charlie V, Jeff A, Hilton and others. Even 5s in the NBA have a mid range game and many have 3 pt ability. Sanogo plays with his back to the basket. Save that for the 7 footers. Sanogo is limited offensively and needs to expand his game. He has the athletic ability.
Hurley is paid to win games for UConn. Playing a college center at the wrong position in college will not help win games. You sound like Calipari who says his job is less about winning than getting people drafted.
 

nelsonmuntz

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? Vague, passive aggressive....saying nothing or something? Who knows...

Passive aggressive? Saying misinterpreted analytics result in poorly designed offenses is like saying the sun rises in the East and water is wet. It is a fact that is so obvious it does not need to be debated.
 

Doctor Hoop

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Maybe you should both scout and coach the team. Hurley watched film and at the time was PRAISED for not making Whaley transfer because he was choosing culture. You are obviously a basketball savant. You noticed Whaley had potential before Ollie, Hurley, and every other person with eyes in the state.
Ollie saw it too. Which is not to say Ollie should still be coaching. Hurley is much better at the culture development, and gets higher ranked recruits.
 
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Passive aggressive? Saying misinterpreted analytics result in poorly designed offenses is like saying the sun rises in the East and water is wet. It is a fact that is so obvious it does not need to be debated.y salad means bothing

Passive aggressive? Saying misinterpreted analytics result in poorly designed offenses is like saying the sun rises in the East and water is wet. It is a fact that is so obvious it does not need to be debated.
Your word salad gives me a headache.
Passive aggressive? Saying misinterpreted analytics result in poorly designed offenses is like saying the sun rises in the East and water is wet. It is a fact that is so obvious it does not need to be debated.
 
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Ollie saw it too. Which is not to say Ollie should still be coaching. Hurley is much better at the culture development, and gets higher ranked recruits.
Are you going to re-educate me? Give it up. Ollie barely saw his own recruits. If he saw something you of all people couldn't confirm it.
 
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If I recall correctly (and I may not) a “source” on the BY suggested Hurley was working on Whaley to transfer. The story was that Whaley really liked UConn and said he was staying But he wanted to play more. Hurley then told him he needed to work much harder if he expected playing time. Whaley worked hard and became a much better player.

As for Carlton, when I watch him this year he does things he didn’t do well at UConn. He often dunks the ball and his boxing out is much improved. It does help to be on a team that can score. I hope Josh gets to cut the nets.
 
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Josh had very good offensive skills even very early on. Never understood why his PT was so limited especially early on.
 
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Josh had very good offensive skills even very early on. Never understood why his PT was so limited especially early on.
He got decent time. He had kind of a slow, mechanical offensive game even though he had a nice touch and some decent skill. Slimming down again was huge for him. Him bulking up was a bad instinct for the staff that year. Easy to rip in hindsight but I guess they deserve that for the miscalculation. Really happy for the kid. Him making good doesn't always have to be a demerit for us but I guess that is just the price of doing business around here.
 
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Except I absolutely did predict it. I said a guy gets hurt another gets in early foul trouble and the depth is gone.

What's really crazy is we kept Richie Springs and let Carlton exit the program like he was on SpaceX. Josh would have also helped us big time against Providence at the XL.

Josh isn't a perfect player. He lacks explosion. But he is a brainy player who always hustles who was under estimated here. In any case, he is a classy young man and didn't deserve any of the nonsense thrown his way on the boneyard.
Stop. I really like Josh and am rooting for him. But did it ever occur to you that he and Hurley spoke honestly about what 21-22 would lok like for him here, and he was told barring injuries Sanogo was playing 30 to 32 minutes a game and Josh’s best case was 8 to 10? And Josh decided he’d rather use his fifth year where he could play morE?

What were you looking for? For Josh to stay because he’d rather ride the pine and be available in case Sanogo got hurt? For Hurley to not let Sanogo get the playing time he wanted and needed to develop as he has (accepting that he’s not Kareem either)? I want to bang a supermodel and have my wife make us dinner afterwards, but I don’t waste time wishing for it to happen and being critical of anyone when it doesn’t.
 

Chin Diesel

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Not disagreeing, but it does kinda depend on what “succeed” means. This years team was not going to win an NC with or without Josh Carlton who also had his good games here under Hurley. Everyone is making a big deal over losing in the round of 64 when only UConn fans notice the difference between losing then or in the Sweet Sixteen and even then there would be a bunch of Yarders bitching. A lot of fans can’t even remember who won last year’s NC. Hurley isn’t perfect by a long shot, but on the other hand he had a team weak in jump shooting take 3rd in the BE and into the dance. Maybe that reflects a recruiting issue or getting too excited about bringing in a super athlete whose big weakness is pretty important in hoops. Would Carlton have been a difference maker to our record or tourney success? We’ll never know but I doubt it.

Even though this is a Carlton thread my comment about Hurley getting teams to succeed was a response to someone mentioning he has coached Bouk, Sanogo and Cole and each of them received high individual accolades.

My comment is to now get teams to consistently perform at their expected levels. yes, every year there are teams which lose to lower seeded teams. No one judges a coach soley on that. Right now there's no glossing over Hurley's NCAA record or BET tournament record. It's not good and you can see the tightness in the players on the court. Hurley needs to learn how to be a better tournament coach.
 

cohenzone

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Even though this is a Carlton thread my comment about Hurley getting teams to succeed was a response to someone mentioning he has coached Bouk, Sanogo and Cole and each of them received high individual accolades.

My comment is to now get teams to consistently perform at their expected levels. yes, every year there are teams which lose to lower seeded teams. No one judges a coach soley on that. Right now there's no glossing over Hurley's NCAA record or BET tournament record. It's not good and you can see the tightness in the players on the court. Hurley needs to learn how to be a better tournament coach.
I understand that. I’m not sure what reasonable expectations are for a team lacking enough consistent shooters. It is called basketball after all. That’s why I said maybe it’s more of a recruiting issue than a coaching issue. One can debate whether or not he maybe got a team lacking reliable shooters farther than he could have.

BTW, the Carlton stuff is, at bottom, funny. This year people bitched because some see a problem with Johnson not getting meaningful time. At whose expense would be the question. I mention that only because last year some BY people would’ve gone nuts if Carlton had played at Sanogo’s expense. There well might be a happy medium, but people on this board rarely salivated over Carlton and it’s not like he was given zero opportunity and wasn’t allowed to produce, as he did on several occasions. There was probably more discussion about changes in his physique from one season to the next than any player in program history.
 
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I understand that. I’m not sure what reasonable expectations are for a team lacking enough consistent shooters. It is called basketball after all. That’s why I said maybe it’s more of a recruiting issue than a coaching issue. One can debate whether or not he maybe got a team lacking reliable shooters farther than he could have.

BTW, the Carlton stuff is, at bottom, funny. This year people bitched because some see a problem with Johnson not getting meaningful time. At whose expense would be the question. I mention that only because last year some BY people would’ve gone nuts if Carlton had played at Sanogo’s expense. There well might be a happy medium, but people on this board rarely salivated over Carlton and it’s not like he was given zero opportunity and wasn’t allowed to produce, as he did on several occasions. There was probably more discussion about changes in his physique from one season to the next than any player in program history.
But isn't a recruiting issue a coaching issue?
 

Doctor Hoop

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Are you going to re-educate me? Give it up. Ollie barely saw his own recruits. If he saw something you of all people couldn't confirm it.
You know, there is a search function on this board…
Not seeing the court can be effort- or talent-related. Not sure which here, but he's a long guy who has good hands, likes to rebound and block shots. Kind of useful, potentially. I see a bit more in him than most, YMMV.
There was a general consensus on the board this offseason that Whaley just wasn’t capable of playing at this level. I saw effort, quickness, good timing, good hands, a nose for rebounds, a not at all awkward jump shot, and couldn’t understand why he languished on the bench all year. Many others saw a kid with no useful talent, better off in D3 ball.

Y’all were wrong.
 

cohenzone

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But isn't a recruiting issue a coaching issue?
Nobody knocks Calipari’s way with recruits. Look, for example everyone was super excited that Hurley landed Jackson. I think Jackson creates a coaching problem that arguably Hurley could have recognized during recruiting. Maybe he did for all we know. Not a terrific shooter and I’m guessing his physical dominance in hs allowed him to score a lot without necessarily being an A level jump shooter. There are limits to how much a coach can significantly improve shooting. Polley, our supposed shooter was either hot or stone cold with not that much in between. Hawkins is supposedly the guy but he has his own learning curve. That’s why I say maybe a more nuanced criticism is regarding the skills of our recruits which definitely impacts coaching choices. I don’t know that there is any such thing as a real answer. All I’m saying is that we had a team deficient in a pretty key area and maybe getting this group to BE 3rd place, top 25 and into the dance was a pretty decent coaching job. I’m disappointed too in a first round loss, but this team wasn’t going to win an NC with John Wooden or Dean Smith coaching it. So the main disappointment to me is that we didn’t get to see the season extended another game or two. Can’t imagine what this board would’ve been like if we’d made the 16 and lost to a 15 seed as I’m pretty sure happened last night.
 

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