California state university system cancels fall classes on campus

[upstater]

I don’t buy the online learning preparedness for professors thing either - I’m a teacher and it doesn’t take me four months to get my curriculum ready. Cmon. Either way it doesn’t matter what I think but the repercussions of calling fall semester this early will not be good for mind body or sprit.

Early June is the deadline for all schools to decide.

 

[Peacefrog]

I don’t have their testing info. The trouble with acceptable compromises is they they are acceptable usually to people not directly impacted by the illness. I don’t think Sweden mandated work, not sure, but they did expect social distancing and apparently they don’t have a population full of people who melt because they are asked to sacrifice a teeny bit of personal freedom. They also have 10 million total people. We have several urban metro areas with many more than that, a big minority population that seems to be prone to more serious consequences. They are betting on herd immunity. We’ll see if that happens there or here.

Its been an expensive bet so far. I've been following the situation in Scandinavia and to this point Sweden, absent many restrictions, has 7x as many deaths as Norway and Finland combined (which is close to an equal comparison as far as population is concerned). There isn't a sign of herd immunity yet after three months as they are still racking up way more new cases per day (602 v 44 yesterday) but thousands of additional people are dead. We'll see what happens over the next month or so.

 

[upstater]

Its been an expensive bet so far. I've been following the situation in Scandinavia and to this point Sweden, absent many restrictions, has 7x as many deaths as Norway and Finland combined (which is close to an equal comparison as far as population is concerned). There isn't a sign of herd immunity yet after three months as they are still racking up way more new cases per day (602 v 44 yesterday) but thousands of additional people are dead. We'll see what happens over the next month or so.

Herd immunity is just not going to happen, unfortunately.

 

[cohenzone]

Its been an expensive bet so far. I've been following the situation in Scandinavia and to this point Sweden, absent many restrictions, has 7x as many deaths as Norway and Finland combined (which is close to an equal comparison as far as population is concerned). There isn't a sign of herd immunity yet after three months as they are still racking up way more new cases per day (602 v 44 yesterday) but thousands of additional people are dead. We'll see what happens over the next month or so.

Tell me about it. There are a few Cesspool posters who are sold on Sweden with no history to support anybody’s method. And now the WH ass is moving on Fauci because Fauci doesn’t have a vacuum cleaner for the virus to make schools safe.

 

[superjohn]

Back to the original topic:

1. U. Cal. is not adopting the Cal. State model. At least not yet.
2. Cal-State is joining U. Cal. and being subsumed into the U. Cal. system as feeder schools.
3. Going online could very well be part of that.
4. Most schools are planning some kind of opening. Whether that means trimesters, or beginning in October, still remains to be seen.
5. The politicians will have the final say.
6. The NCAA -- if it ever had a reputation -- is quickly about to lose it. The NCAA is recommending that athletes return to campus even IF there are no live classes. This is sure to be the death knell of the NCAA if that comes to pass.
7. On 3 big state U. campuses, athletics are not part of any crisis planning. I have heard of Presidents making impassioned defenses of athletics in the face of this huge budget slaughter. The SUNY centers are looking at a combined $300 million cut. This is effectively 1/4 of the fungible operating budgets.

I'd say expect students to be in session at some point during the fall, but... I can go on and on about the pitfalls and tradeoffs. A former student of mine, who is now the Provost of a top 50 liberal arts school in the midwest, described his life right now as reaching out for any piece of driftwood that floats by.

If you like bad and absurd, you're going to like the fall semester.

You won't have to worry about the death of the NCAA, if colleges aren't open next year it will be the death of colleges.

 

[superjohn]

Its been an expensive bet so far. I've been following the situation in Scandinavia and to this point Sweden, absent many restrictions, has 7x as many deaths as Norway and Finland combined (which is close to an equal comparison as far as population is concerned). There isn't a sign of herd immunity yet after three months as they are still racking up way more new cases per day (602 v 44 yesterday) but thousands of additional people are dead. We'll see what happens over the next month or so.

Your cases aren't accurate for Sweden.

 

[UCTitleTown]

Testing is pretty useless. The Pence press secretary tested negative and positive the next. There are almost 350 million people in this country and we can't even produce enough to test everyone even once. Antibody testing is more valuable. Bottom line is, we need an effective vaccine ASAP. That's the only real solution. Until then, we need to get back to living, but with as much precautions as are feasible to manage the situation until the vaccine is available.

 

[Hi-Low]

Over constantly moving the goal posts on the length of stay at home orders.

Well the main problem is Governors don't have tons of confidence if things go bad the feds have any clue how to help. The federal government puts out a 3 phase approach to re-open and then the Pres ridicules Governors that follow it and wait.

Any country that has Jared Kushner leading any aspect of it's response is doomed to fail...not political, this administration has been moronic on this.

 

[JimHurley]

Well the main problem is Governors don't have tons of confidence if things go bad the feds have any clue how to help. The federal government puts out a 3 phase approach to re-open and then the Pres ridicules Governors that follow it and wait.

Any country that has Jared Kushner leading any aspect of it's response is doomed to fail...not political, this administration has been moronic on this.

Well that is pretty political. I happen to think the outcome wouldn’t be overly different no matter who is in charge. Do I think our response has been good? Not really. But what would your ideal leader have done differently? And please don’t say more testing because that’s far easier said than done. There is also a supply chain issue. We can’t just produce endless tests on demand.

I also happen to think the governors should be leading the charge, with the help of the federal government. It seems the governors aren’t taking any responsibility on the outbreak and the response, when in reality it’s largely their responsibility to do both.

 

[Peacefrog]

Your cases aren't accurate for Sweden.

Or yours aren't. The source I use gets its data from Johns Hopkins and WHO.

 

[superjohn]

Or yours aren't. The source I use gets its data from Johns Hopkins and WHO.

 

[superjohn]

Its been an expensive bet so far. I've been following the situation in Scandinavia and to this point Sweden, absent many restrictions, has 7x as many deaths as Norway and Finland combined (which is close to an equal comparison as far as population is concerned). There isn't a sign of herd immunity yet after three months as they are still racking up way more new cases per day (602 v 44 yesterday) but thousands of additional people are dead. We'll see what happens over the next month or so.

Did you mean Sweden had 602 cases yesterday compared to a combined 44 total for Finland and Norway? Is so, my bad.

 

[upstater]

Testing is pretty useless. The Pence press secretary tested negative and positive the next. There are almost 350 million people in this country and we can't even produce enough to test everyone even once. Antibody testing is more valuable. Bottom line is, we need an effective vaccine ASAP. That's the only real solution. Until then, we need to get back to living, but with as much precautions as are feasible to manage the situation until the vaccine is available.

It's not useless. It helps to know if you already have it. And yes of course you go from negative to positive. The illness develops, so that's how it's going to work.

 

[upstater]

You won't have to worry about the death of the NCAA, if colleges aren't open next year it will be the death of colleges.

The USA. A first world country without colleges.

 

[Northbound]

Early June is the deadline for all schools to decide.

Not true - I run marketing at a good sized school an what you are saying is incorrect. But what I've learned is faculty generally live in their own reality, good, bad or indifferent - (edit) I'll remove the knock as I don't know you and that's unfair.

The vast majority of colleges have extended deadlines that are established by the "governing bodies" which are usually 5/1 to now be 6/1 that has no relation to when schools decide if they go back and how that's implemented - full time on campus, remote or a hybrid model.

We'll decide by 8/1.

 

[phillionaire]

Testing is pretty useless. The Pence press secretary tested negative and positive the next.

Smoke detectors are pretty useless. It was quiet one day and started screaming at me the next.

 

[upstater]

Not true - I run marketing at a good sized school an what you are saying is incorrect. But what I've learned is faculty generally live in their own reality, good, bad or indifferent - (edit) I'll remove the knock as I don't know you and that's unfair.

The vast majority of colleges have extended deadlines that are established by the "governing bodies" which are usually 5/1 to now be 6/1 that has no relation to when schools decide if they go back and how that's implemented - full time on campus, remote or a hybrid model.

We'll decide by 8/1.

This didn't come from me. It came from the people who decide. Not the professors. Not the marketers.

 

[Northbound]

This didn't come from me. It came from the people who decide. Not the professors. Not the marketers.

I'm in the president's council and the BOT meetings and have a voice in that decision - what you're saying may be correct for you institution, but it's not universal which is how I read it.

Marketing/enrollment has a say in the decision for any school, if you think it doesn't you aren't living in reality.

(edit) why do they have a say - because they have to manage all of the communications around it and the potential fall out from the decision.

 

[StllH8L8ner]

Maybe we should go ahead and delete this thread. I think we all agree that the current situation sux and no one quite knows what the answer is. People grandstanding, insulting each other and spewing stats from God knows what sources is something I can get from Yahoo message boards

 

[huskymedic]

Maybe we should go ahead and delete this thread. I think we all agree that the current situation sux and no one quite knows what the answer is. People grandstanding, insulting each other and spewing stats from God knows what sources is something I can get from Yahoo message boards

FWIW you can “ignore” and “unwatch” any thread @ the top of its page under the page numbers...

 

[GHSWolverines]

Early June is the deadline for all schools to decide.

I am a teacher also. I am not a huge fan of distance learning. So much is lost when you don't have that personal contact with them. I use Google hangout as a tool. I have had a total of 4 students since March 16 go on it. This style of teaching does not work!

 

[Northbound]

Maybe we should go ahead and delete this thread. I think we all agree that the current situation sux and no one quite knows what the answer is. People grandstanding, insulting each other and spewing stats from God knows what sources is something I can get from Yahoo message boards

If you're referencing me as it relates to grandstanding - I guess if adding a perspective based on my professional role that has actual facts pertaining to this thread is grandstanding, then I'm guilty.

 

[huskymedic]

Testing is pretty useless. The Pence press secretary tested negative and positive the next.

Smoke detectors are pretty useless. It was quiet one day and started screaming at me the next.

Imagine that... Coronavirus Test Used in White House May Have Faulty Rate As High As 48 Percent

 

[NJHusky]

Sweden is an interesting situation. Do you have any information as to their testing numbers?

They never had any official stay in place mandates like their Scandanavian counterparts (Norway and Finland).

They were absolutely correct in protecting the most vulnerable but they still had dramatic number of deaths compared to Norway and Finland.

They stated the opposite. That they did NOT do a good job of protecting the most vulnerable. That’s why over 50% of cases are in nursing homes

They closed high schools and colleges and sporting events and bars. Everything else was open.

 

[Northbound]

I am a teacher also. I am not a huge fan of distance learning. So much is lost when you don't have that personal contact with them. I use Google hangout as a tool. I have had a total of 4 students since March 16 go on it. This style of teaching does not work!

Yeah it pretty much sucks and people learn differently and if you've been thrust into this as a teacher it really sucks. It's a totally different teaching conversation. There's an article in the journal (maybe) that talks about how colleges are investing in retraining professors to teach online I think USF is allocating $5M to do it.

Much of higher ed has dismissed it as inferior for too long and the category has to adapt. There are purely online programs for major universities, I think even Yale has one or more, I forget the department(s) - this is going to shift the conversation around online delivery in higher ed and schools that find way to deliver programs in an online and in-person format will win. I personally think it's inferior as so much of college is the outside of classroom experience that helps shape world view and provides people with new perspectives and that is lost in online delivery.

It would be less expensive, but graduates would likely be less prepared for real life.

 

[StllH8L8ner]

If you're referencing me as it relates to grandstanding - I guess if adding a perspective based on my professional role that has actual facts pertaining to this thread is grandstanding, then I'm guilty.

I wasn't. Sorry.

 

[upstater]

I'm in the president's council and the BOT meetings and have a voice in that decision - what you're saying may be correct for you institution, but it's not universal which is how I read it.

Marketing/enrollment has a say in the decision for any school, if you think it doesn't you aren't living in reality.

(edit) why do they have a say - because they have to manage all of the communications around it and the potential fall out from the decision.

I'm not here to puff myself up. When I hear Provosts say it is not fully my decision, I don't doubt them.

 

[mussels]

You need testing and a decent system to monitor contacts. Body temperature machine scanners at points of entry would be important. We also should have adequate numbers of ventilators and PPE. This is not rocket science because we have a successful model in South Korea. They were one of the first countries if not the first country outside of China to get cases. They had no advance warning other than China. There was no Italy or NYC when they went into lockdown. But they were and are prepared for this pandemic. Just emulate what they did and are doing.

You can't test everyone in a country every day. I never stated that. What you do is is test a percentage of people and if they test positive you trace who they came in contact with and isolate them if they don't have antibodies. Same with any individual who becomes symptomatic or has a fever. Infected people will still move through society but not at a rate that causes an overwhelming of the medical system. The average person will feel relatively safe and the economy can resume with some modifications to the work environment.

South Korea uses cellphone data to trace where an infected person has been, and then broadcasts it (without names) so others will know if they may have come in contact. They also use an app that tracks a persons phone to insure that he isn’t breaking quarantine. Although the published data doesn't include names there are cases where people have connected dots, and also businesses where people have been lose business despite cleaning and disinfecting done by the state.

How do you think Americans would respond to such "virtuous surveillance"?

 

[NJHusky]

Its been an expensive bet so far. I've been following the situation in Scandinavia and to this point Sweden, absent many restrictions, has 7x as many deaths as Norway and Finland combined (which is close to an equal comparison as far as population is concerned). There isn't a sign of herd immunity yet after three months as they are still racking up way more new cases per day (602 v 44 yesterday) but thousands of additional people are dead. We'll see what happens over the next month or so.

If you are going to use a number at least do the math correctly. According to worldometer Denmark had 533 deaths and Finland had 284. That’s 817. 7x that is 5719. Worldometer shows Sweden with 3460 deaths. You’re off by 1.75x but never let facts get in the way. They conceded they did not properly safeguard their senior living places that account for over 50% of deaths. If u look at the general populace mortality it’s about 1700 or 2x Finland and Denmark. Let’s see what happens in July as they expect herd immunity in June.

 

[Peacefrog]

Did you mean Sweden had 602 cases yesterday compared to a combined 44 total for Finland and Norway? Is so, my bad.

Yes, that’s what I meant if I didn’t type it clearly. I’m really hoping for signs of some immunity in Sweden but they’re not really showing a decrease in new cases or deaths.