C Zach Brown | Page 18 | The Boneyard

C Zach Brown

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aceboon said:
I don't necessarily disagree with your overall point, but that's an odd tangent to go off on when Brown's guardian is the one who made the comments about Drummond.
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If I'm worth anything on this board, it is the "odd tangent..." I think the point is valid regardless of who said it though. People get pissed when a recruit's parent/handler says Coach Cal puts players in the NBA. The knee jerk reaction is that he's "just a babysitter." But AD's time here was essentially the same scenario. Point is that recruits/parents see players in the NBA and that's all that matters; whether they were four year players who went from unable to dribble to a star or a guy who was too good for college to begin with.
 
boog204 said:
If I'm worth anything on this board, it is the "odd tangent..." I think the point is valid regardless of who said it though. People get pissed when a recruit's parent/handler says Coach Cal puts players in the NBA. The knee jerk reaction is that he's "just a babysitter." But AD's time here was essentially the same scenario. Point is that recruits/parents see players in the NBA and that's all that matters; whether they were four year players who went from unable to dribble to a star or a guy who was too good for college to begin with.
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People only get pissed because it's Calipari/UK.
 
boog204 said:
If I'm worth anything on this board, it is the "odd tangent..." I think the point is valid regardless of who said it though. People get pissed when a recruit's parent/handler says Coach Cal puts players in the NBA. The knee jerk reaction is that he's "just a babysitter." But AD's time here was essentially the same scenario. Point is that recruits/parents see players in the NBA and that's all that matters; whether they were four year players who went from unable to dribble to a star or a guy who was too good for college to begin with.
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I'd disagree about AD. Being a local guy he literally was on campus loads for years. Also having years of time for the coaching staff to talk to his coaches, for him to play with current players etc. A much more integrated development and all within the rules I choose to believe.
 
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Drumguy said:
I'd disagree about AD. Being a local guy he literally was on campus loads for years. Also having years of time for the coaching staff to talk to his coaches, for him to play with current players etc. A much more integrated development and all within the rules I choose to believe.
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And Damarcus Cousins and the other UK guys constantly go to their games and play in pick-up games, etc. Just the double standard I'm calling out. The narrative on this board for years has been that Cal (and now Coach K for some reason) can't coach, only win b/c they have great players, and basically babysit players before they go to the draft (one and done's.) Andre is our example for that, local kid or not. If we claim him as this great ambassador (which we should) then we have to change our narrative about Cal and K. I have no issue w/ claiming AD; hell, I claimed Bynum back in the day, too. Any exposure is good exposure. And if some recruits parent/handler looks at UConn and thinks, "that's the place that developed Andre Drummond" then that works quite well for me. We just have to realize our hypocrisy.
 
boog204 said:
And Damarcus Cousins and the other UK guys constantly go to their games and play in pick-up games, etc. Just the double standard I'm calling out. The narrative on this board for years has been that Cal (and now Coach K for some reason) can't coach, only win b/c they have great players, and basically babysit players before they go to the draft (one and done's.) Andre is our example for that, local kid or not. If we claim him as this great ambassador (which we should) then we have to change our narrative about Cal and K. I have no issue w/ claiming AD; hell, I claimed Bynum back in the day, too. Any exposure is good exposure. And if some recruits parent/handler looks at UConn and thinks, "that's the place that developed Andre Drummond" then that works quite well for me. We just have to realize our hypocrisy.
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Why? who says we can't be UConn homers and believe what we want and denigrate the Squid? This is a fan board, I'd expect a HUGE amount of bias and unevenness. Not many here will say a kind word about Calipari and no amount of logic or reasoning will change that!
 
boog204 said:
And Damarcus Cousins and the other UK guys constantly go to their games and play in pick-up games, etc. Just the double standard I'm calling out. The narrative on this board for years has been that Cal (and now Coach K for some reason) can't coach, only win b/c they have great players, and basically babysit players before they go to the draft (one and done's.) Andre is our example for that, local kid or not. If we claim him as this great ambassador (which we should) then we have to change our narrative about Cal and K. I have no issue w/ claiming AD; hell, I claimed Bynum back in the day, too. Any exposure is good exposure. And if some recruits parent/handler looks at UConn and thinks, "that's the place that developed Andre Drummond" then that works quite well for me. We just have to realize our hypocrisy.
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I think I just heard something like this in the recent debate from Rand Paul about hypocrisy (other candidates arguing states rights over federal rights concerning marriage vs those same candidates pushing federal rights over states rights about marijuana). You can see the boost that argument gave him amongst voters. I know someone will make the case this belongs in the cesspool but I maintain the microcosm is representative of the macrocosm. Your opinion, which I support, won't win popularity contests.
 
Boog, you are spot on. AD developed at UConn about as much as many Kentucky guys have in their one year there. I am happy to have the AD PR, but real fans know his development at UConn was fairly limited. I give you credit for stating the truth even if many don't want to hear it.

On the flip side, Bazz and Boat did develop a great deal while at UConn.
 
Drumguy said:
Why? who says we can't be UConn homers and believe what we want and denigrate the Squid? This is a fan board, I'd expect a HUGE amount of bias and unevenness. Not many here will say a kind word about Calipari and no amount of logic or reasoning will change that!
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I was going to post something like what you presented but went highbrow instead. LOL!
 
I think the vast majority of people here know Coach K is a great coach. And when you count recruiting as a big part of a coach's job, Cal is also great. Where we disagree on his being excellent is on his player development and his in-game coaching. The latter was demonstrated in his last games vs Ollie and Calhoun.
But all in, he is still a very top coach
His history of cheating and his rationalizing his recent final four losses (they were so young, the winning streak was more important than the NC) along with his oily demeanor are why we don't like him.
Plus, you are comparing one one-and-done to about 25.
 
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David 76 said:
I think the vast majority of people here know Coach K is a great coach. And when you count recruiting as a big part of a coach's job, Cal is also great. Where we disagree on his being excellent is on his player development and his in-game coaching. The latter was demonstrated in his last games vs Ollie and Calhoun.
But all in, he is still a very top coach
His history of cheating and his rationalizing his recent final four losses (they were so young, the winning streak was more important than the NC) along with his oily demeanor are why we don't like him.
Plus, you are comparing one one-and-done to about 25.
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Thank you for saying this. I get the whole hypocrisy argument but AD is a single player who was a CT native, life long UConn fan and wasn't even planning on playing college ball until last minute. For all we know, AD would have stayed another year but the situation around the programs future and the APR ban made it a NO BRAINER for him to declare. That's not enough for us to be classed with Kentucky in terms of the program's modus operandi.

UConn and Kentucky (under Cal, this is important) are not, and have never done things the same way in terms of the path taken to a title.
 
Huskybass said:
On the flip side, Bazz and Boat did develop a great deal while at UConn.
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Oh absolutely... We've obviously developed far, far more than we've "babysat." I know this is a fan board and we're allowed to be hypocrites, but it just gets a bit old. I love UConn with all my being, but my glasses are not husky shaped all the time.
 
boog204 said:
Oh absolutely... We've obviously developed far, far more than we've "babysat." I know this is a fan board and we're allowed to be hypocrites, but it just gets a bit old. I love UConn with all my being, but my glasses are not husky shaped all the time.
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Boog, I also agree with you that, if Cal won 10 straight championships and then saved the Pope's life, there would still be posters here saying he sucks as a coach. But don't confuse that minority with the majority who admit Cal has great abilities but he still makes our skin crawl.
 
David 76 said:
Boog, I also agree with you that, if Cal won 10 straight championships and then saved the Pope's life, there would still be posters here saying he sucks as a coach. But don't confuse that minority with the majority who admit Cal has great abilities but he still makes our skin crawl.
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But he hasn't... So therefore saying he isn't a very good coach for not winning more with that absurd amount of talent is a valid statement.

Look at it this way, almost every final four team in the last 15 tournaments has had at least one NBA 1st rounder in that year's draft, and most often that player is the focal point of that entire team. The less talented players defer to him more often than not because that's an effective strategy for winning at the college level. Now imagine this, Cal for the last 10 years or so has had at a minimum 3 or 4 of these very same guys on each of his team's, with total roster turnover each year! This past season he had 7 players of this rare caliber (rare relative to the overall talent distribution throughout college basketball). He has coached one NBA MVP in Rose and a future multiple time MVP and potential all time great in Davis, and that's not even counting the slew of other NBA superstars (Cousins, Wall) and budding stars (Noel, Knight, Tyreke, Bledsoe). And yet with all this absurd, ridiculous talent he has one title to his name.

If you have ever watched an NBA player play against regular people, even college athletes, the talent disparity is incredible. Yet Cal has essentially rolled out an NBA roster every season for almost 5 years now to play against kids who have never even seriously considered themselves as draft picks, let alone future stars of the league like Cal's guys. To say he has met expectations with what he brings in talent wise is a complete farce in my opinion. Call me a hypocrite whatever, but there's a reason that even UK fans think Cal has in a way underperformed.
 
Drumguy said:
Why? who says we can't be UConn homers and believe what we want and denigrate the Squid? This is a fan board, I'd expect a HUGE amount of bias and unevenness. Not many here will say a kind word about Calipari and no amount of logic or reasoning will change that!
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Nor should it. For every person that is baffled by the Calipari bashing, there is at least one person who is baffled by the people who are baffled. If someone doesn't get it, just ignore it. There is plenty of history to explain why people hate the guy. There isn't any reason I can think of why people feel the need to complain about the bashing.
 
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Paesano said:
Nor should it. For every person that is baffled by the Calipari bashing, there is at least one person who is baffled by the people who are baffled. If someone doesn't get it, just ignore it. There is plenty of history to explain why people hate the guy. There isn't any reason I can think of why people feel the need to complain about the bashing.
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^^^^^^^
THIS

He's a good coach but he's scum and everyone knows it, has been since he was an assistant at Pitt nothing has changed except the fact he took the Kentucky job and somehow created an aura that he gets guys into the league. The only one's believing that are you guys who don't like him being bashed, ESPN because they bought in and aid his recruiting and some really dumb parents who think it's really good for their kids to play 18 minutes a game there rather than 30 minutes somewhere else. That's fine but there are many of us here who don't respect the man, and that's okay too. Without opinions this wouldn't be much fun here at the BY after all now would it?

Now let's get back to Zach Brown and his tweets or something. Maybe Boo is going to be our best recruiter outside the staff itself, one can hope!
 
mauconnfan said:
^^^^^^^
THIS

He's a good coach but he's scum and everyone knows it, has been since he was an assistant at Pitt nothing has changed except the fact he took the Kentucky job and somehow created an aura that he gets guys into the league. The only one's believing that are you guys who don't like him being bashed, ESPN because they bought in and aid his recruiting and some really dumb parents who think it's really good for their kids to play 18 minutes a game there rather than 30 minutes somewhere else. That's fine but there are many of us here who don't respect the man, and that's okay too. Without opinions this wouldn't be much fun here at the BY after all now would it?

Now let's get back to Zach Brown and his tweets or something. Maybe Boo is going to be our best recruiter outside the staff itself, one can hope!
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I just don't like his personality. A bit of a whiner.
 
I don't think anyone, outside of Lexington, actually likes the man. I'm just sick of the mentality around here that we're somehow holier than all else when we are gladly using AD as a featured alum and would take on one and dones if the situation presented itself. There's not a (sane) person here who would have turned down Diamond Stone last year. But enough of this hijack...

Still seems like we're in the driver seat for Brown and in a way I'd rather him not commit now since he's still going to be recruited either way. It makes it easier to still go after other comparable bigs should Maryland decide they want everyone that we recruit.
 
mauconnfan said:
^^^^^^^
THIS

He's a good coach but he's scum and everyone knows it, has been since he was an assistant at Pitt nothing has changed except the fact he took the Kentucky job and somehow created an aura that he gets guys into the league. The only one's believing that are you guys who don't like him being bashed, ESPN because they bought in and aid his recruiting and some really dumb parents who think it's really good for their kids to play 18 minutes a game there rather than 30 minutes somewhere else. That's fine but there are many of us here who don't respect the man, and that's okay too. Without opinions this wouldn't be much fun here at the BY after all now would it?

Now let's get back to Zach Brown and his tweets or something. Maybe Boo is going to be our best recruiter outside the staff itself, one can hope!
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Muntz like false argument. There are not discussions here about whether or not he's scum. Everyone knows he is. There are discussions here about whether or not he's a good basketball coach. And disliking someone -- even rightfully -- doesn't change their accomplishments.
 
businesslawyer said:
Muntz like false argument. There are not discussions here about whether or not he's scum. Everyone knows he is. There are discussions here about whether or not he's a good basketball coach. And disliking someone -- even rightfully -- doesn't change their accomplishments.
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Except people don't like him because he's slimy at best and at worst he cheats. And this sliminess and cheating inflates his accomplishments.
 
businesslawyer said:
Muntz like false argument. There are not discussions here about whether or not he's scum. Everyone knows he is. There are discussions here about whether or not he's a good basketball coach. And disliking someone -- even rightfully -- doesn't change their accomplishments.
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We are doing in this discussion what we do with every discussion. It's not just about accomplishments. It's about subjectively considering factors and subjectively measuring them. In other words we can't disassociate the objective and subjective aspect of issues.

Homerism is just an identifier. We gravitate to things that make us feel better. And we sometimes feel the need to argue things to ensure this feeling.

In general if we like something we are more likely to present arguments in a positive way which includes presenting factors supporting those arguments and not present, or diminish the value of factors that refute this position. If we dislike something we do the opposite. Unless of course one happens to be a lawyer in which case one has to subvert the personal bias for the client. Each occupation has their own particular Mezuzah to bear.
 
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businesslawyer said:
Muntz like false argument. There are not discussions here about whether or not he's scum. Everyone knows he is. There are discussions here about whether or not he's a good basketball coach. And disliking someone -- even rightfully -- doesn't change their accomplishments.
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And not everyone agrees that he is a good coach. If you want to argue that he is, great. But when people whine that everyone who disagrees is obsessed with him, well, that is just silly. He is a figure in college basketball. His actions have an impact on the UConn men's team. This ia a UConn basketball forum. Seems reasonable to discuss the man. What is less reasonable is to discuss the people who are discussing him. We are irrelevant so why is there so much complaining about the squid haters?
 
Paesano said:
And not everyone agrees that he is a good coach.
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Minor tweak: anyone with an opinion worth listening to agrees that he's a good coach, which doesn't necessarily mean that they admire him or want to hang out with him.

If Ollie went to 4 final fours in 5 years there would be a statue of him outside of Gampel, and Gampel would be called Ollie.

But, again, you're the one who said that Calipari had a crush on me so your brain clearly works in odd ways.
 
Paesano said:
And not everyone agrees that he is a good coach. If you want to argue that he is, great. But when people whine that everyone who disagrees is obsessed with him, well, that is just silly. He is a figure in college basketball. His actions have an impact on the UConn men's team. This ia a UConn basketball forum. Seems reasonable to discuss the man. What is less reasonable is to discuss the people who are discussing him. We are irrelevant so why is there so much complaining about the squid haters?
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I think we need to admit he's a good coach at the very least no matter what our thoughts are of him as a person. He can coach, whether it's as good as it was when at UMass anymore I'm not sold, but the man can coach no doubt about that.
 
BigErnMcCracken said:
Minor tweak: anyone with an opinion worth listening to agrees that he's a good coach, which doesn't necessarily mean that they admire him or want to hang out with him.

If Ollie went to 4 final fours in 5 years there would be a statue of him outside of Gampel, and Gampel would be called Ollie.

But, again, you're the one who said that Calipari had a crush on me so your brain clearly works in odd ways.
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He's a good coach but with the #1 class every year national titles are to be expected, he's been exposed in late game situations in his last few big games. As for Gampel being renamed, nah. Calhoun put UConn on the map and won three National Championships and we still don't call Gampel The Calhoun.
 
BigErnMcCracken said:
Minor tweak: anyone with an opinion worth listening to agrees that he's a good coach, which doesn't necessarily mean that they admire him or want to hang out with him.
.
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I actually had the chance to hangout with him for a couple of hours a few years ago during the AAU tourneys in Vegas. I know people here love to hate him but he was one of the most charming, charismatic people I've ever been around. I've found it much harder to hate him since then. I got to meet him because one of my best friends is tight with two other guys who used to be universally hated on the boneyard a few years ago, Dana and David Pump (the Pump brothers), who are also great guys. That was a super fun night at Light in the Bellagio. I don't think I ever shared that story for fear that I could be excommunicated from the Boneyard.
 
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