Bowlsby: Big 12 Would Look "East not West"

[auggie22]

Agree that this argument is stale. All we have to do is acknowledge that sports success leads to fandom, regardless of degree and state residence. Dave is arguing that the world is flat. And his proof is that he has never noticed the curves.

 

[Kolumbo]

No one talks about Temple, yet there they are, ripping #10 Kansas a new one.

 

[UConn9604]

If you think there are 10,000 NJ residents that are UCONN fans, then you are simply wishful thinking.

As of 2012, about 6,000 UConn Alumni lived in New Jersey. So, that's halfway there. Now, if any of those 6,000 have brainwashed their spouses or kids (like I have), then we're even closer to 10,000.

Then you've got people who might be fans of the best basketball program(s) in the nation over the last 20 years (remember, we played Seton Hall and Rutgers for decades), as well as fans of New Jersey football players like Donald Brown or Andre Dixon, and you are easily at 10,000 - regardless of whether one of Chris Christie's staffers conducts another traffic study and blocks off access to the Izod Center from points east.

 

[CL82]

If you think there are 10,000 NJ residents that are UCONN fans, then you are simply wishful thinking.

It certainly would not surprise me. That's 0.00000125 of the population, Not a particularly huge number. In my circle the percentage is much higher than that.

Another anecdotal observation - My kid plays AAU ball here. I can tell you coaches at tournaments are shouting out UConn or Connecticut to designate plays regularly. I can't remember hearing Rutgers but given their BBall prowess I guess that's understandable. As I said, I see UConn gear regularly around here. That may not be the case in South Jersey.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

It certainly would not surprise me. That's 0.00000125 of the population, Not a particularly huge number. In my circle the percentage is much higher than that.

Another anecdotal observation - My kid plays AAU ball here. I can tell you coaches at tournaments are shouting out UConn or Connecticut to designate plays regularly. I can't remember hearing Rutgers but given their BBall prowess I guess that's understandable. As I said, I see UConn gear regularly around here. That may not be the case in South Jersey.

I was coaching a U8 rec basketball team last night with the head coach who is a Rutgers Alumni and who named the team 'Rutgers' just to annoy me. At the end of our scrimmage, I noted that if each player (10 per team, 2 teams) brought both of their parents to a game, the attendance at our game could rival Rutgers. I got a nasty look back; but, no argument.

On a more serious note, if UConn doe snot move the needle at all in NJ, why did UConn's appearance at the RAC in January 2014 sell out the RAC for the first since 2012?

http://www.nj.com/rutgersbasketball...earing_hoops_sellout_at_rac_for_saturday.html

 

[auggie22]

I was coaching a U8 rec basketball team last night with the head coach who is a Rutgers Alumni and who named the team 'Rutgers' just to annoy me. At the end of our scrimmage, I noted that if each player (10 per team, 2 teams) brought both of their parents to a game, the attendance at our game could rival Rutgers. I got a nasty look back; but, no argument.

On a more serious note, if UConn doe snot move the needle at all in NJ, why did UConn's appearance at the RAC in January 2014 sell out the RAC for the first since 2012?

http://www.nj.com/rutgersbasketball...earing_hoops_sellout_at_rac_for_saturday.html

Let me take a stab at it for phillydave:

Because everyone who lives in NJ is in love with all things NJ first, particularly the state U - even though the school name is confusing and the campus could be mistaken for any other highway rest stop on the pike.

The second most important thing to a jersey resident is everything else in life, unless it has to do with the state of Connecticut. Then our hatred establishes primacy. Thus the attendance spike.

Regardless, it is impossible for me to believe that anyone outside of my hideous state regards Rutgers as the Tampa Bay Buccaneers of the seventies and eighties, a loser program with a flamboyant mascot.

It just does not make sense that everybody does not see our sleeping-giantness with each demonstration of Rutgers class and victory. Our track record on the field and generosity in giving away free sporting tickets thus earning no revenue should speak for itself.

Our trophy case and awesome proximity to NYC is a tremendous source of pride for even the most temporary NJ resident. That is why it is impossible to imagine anyone rooting for UConn even though there is probably a shiteload of people in NJ that are from CT. And they win at things and we don't.

And if I was being honest with myself, I would have to acknowledge that a NJ native living in CT don't have the same affinity for old state because there is very little other than a defunct mtv reality show of which to be proud.

 

[NickyNewark]

Let me take a stab at it for phillydave:

Because everyone who lives in NJ is in love with all things NJ first, particularly the state U - even though the school name is confusing and the campus could be mistaken for any other highway rest stop on the pike.

The second most important thing to a jersey resident is everything else in life, unless it has to do with the state of Connecticut. Then our hatred establishes primacy. Thus the attendance spike.

Regardless, it is impossible for me to believe that anyone outside of my hideous state regards Rutgers as the Tampa Bay Buccaneers of the seventies and eighties, a loser program with a flamboyant mascot.

It just does not make sense that everybody does not see our sleeping-giantness with each demonstration of Rutgers class and victory. Our track record on the field and generosity in giving away free sporting tickets thus earning no revenue should speak for itself.

Our trophy case and awesome proximity to NYC is a tremendous source of pride for even the most temporary NJ resident. That is why it is impossible to imagine anyone rooting for UConn even though there is probably a eload of people in NJ that are from CT. And they win at things and we don't.

And if I was being honest with myself, I would have to acknowledge that a NJ native living in CT don't have the same affinity for old state because there is very little other than a defunct mtv reality show of which to be proud.

I live upstate(Capitol District) NY(20 yrs) and lived in NYC for 22 yrs the 1st 21 I resided in my home state of NJ and still consider myself and take pride in state even 40 yrs later..NYC and N.NJ are interchangeable and share culture(same with Philly and S. Jersey)....being real the same can't be said about Connecticut even though they also share a border(about it)...in other words WE ARE NYC. I like and feel an affinity for UConn but someone seems to have a complex? For some inexplicable reason we see FF county as one of us and the rest of Connecticut as part of Boston or New England(were mid-atlantic). Its hard to believe so many here are envious when most of us have moved on and even pull for you!?! Isn't being associated with Mass/Boston and you're hoops natty's enough that you want to claim NYC/NJ too? Be who you are. New Englander's (excepting FF cty)with popularity in NYC but it ain't you're home but your certainly good neighbors.At least that's my heartfelt feeling and i don't think i'm far off?

 

[UC990411]

In my opinion, I think this will happen, at some point, in the next 10-15 years. The NCAA Tourney is a $1B revenue generator...for the NCAA (not the conferences). If the P5 completely split from the NCAA (like they're moving towards anyway), how long will it take for them to figure out that a P5-only tournament that features their programs can generate the same kind of payout without giving it to the NCAA? The mega-fanbases in the P5 would drive ratings through the roof. And while the P5 hoops tourney would lose the "Cinderella appeal" charm of the NCAA Tourney, it wouldn't matter because the P5 has conquered just about every large DMA in the country. CR is all about money, not protecting the charm or true rivalry aspects that used to make college athletics so fun to watch.

The good news for UCONN is that if/when this hoops split happens, and the focus shifts from football to basketball, our P5 value skyrockets. The P5 can surely ink a lucrative TV deal without UCONN. But with UCONN in the mix, not only does the new P5 tourney gain penetration into the huge northeast markets that UCONN helps carry (NYC, Boston, Hartford/New Haven = ratings = $$$), but it also brings more credibility to the P5 tourney because UCONN is a national powerhouse and contender in most seasons. Let's say UNC wins the 2022 P5 championship going 22-8 that season and UCONN, while playing in a mid-major Big East conference, goes 28-2 and wins the NCAA Tourney. Because of UCONN's history and elite status as a basketball blue blood, there would potentially be quite a few pockets of fans in the country that would claim UCONN was better than UNC that year. The P5 would have to acquire as many "blue blood" elite names as possible for their tourney to bring validity to declaring its champion the "best". To gain access to this tournament, UCONN *has* to continue playing football to get a P5 invite.

I understand that UCONN is a basketball school and always will be. That's fine. There is a fit for that inside the P5 (look at Duke, UNC, Kentucky, Syracuse, Indiana, etc) as long as the football programs are competitive every now and again and the basketball programs continue to deliver ratings. I think UCONN can get back to that point - hell, we were at that point in 2011 when we had a BCS football team and 2 hoops national championships.

I also understand that our fanbase, for whatever odd reason, seems to be fragmented between basketball (and even men's vs. women's basketball) and football. I will never in 1,000 years understand the reason for this. But I do realize that the "hoops first" fans probably hold some sort of resentment towards the football program for its struggles and the idea that it is football holding us back from a P5 conference. I just don't, for the life of me, understand why our fans would want to dump football now and go back to playing in a mid-major Big East conference. The payout there is roughly $5M/yr. In other words, not even enough to cover paying our head coach's salaries. So what coach are we going to have to let go because we can't continue to fund that program, long-term? Ollie makes $3M/yr. Geno makes $2M/yr. One, or both, would have to go. And who would we bring in at for $1M/yr to coach in a mid-major conference? Further more, how long would we keep him until a P5 school with 4-10x more money than UCONN can come in and double/triple/quadruple their salary and lure them away? Imagine the ire of every UCONN fan of losing a Kevin Ollie type to Boston College or Syracuse or Rutgers simply because they can pay a salary that we can't even come close to matching. That's what will happen if we moved back to the Big East.

Stay the course. Sports are cyclical. Football will improve. When it does, our P5 value improves instantly. We already have shown we can really help deliver NYC/NJ. Hopefully we will show in 2016 that we can help deliver Boston with a strong fan showing at Gillette against UMASS. We just need football to win a few games and keep doing what we're doing by investing heavily in research. We are still in Year 2 of the 3-5 Year B1G Plan.

Sorry, stopped reading when you said Cuse was a basketball school...

 

[pj]

Nicky, we're happy to be on the New England side of the New England/New York cultural divide ... but we're not going to cede NYC sports fans to Rutgers! Keep your game face on because UConn wants those fans!

 

[NickyNewark]

If you want to think that UCONN has a presence in NJ.....go for it. You'd be very wrong....but have at it.

I lived in NJ for 42 years up until a few years ago, in towns in Monmouth County (Central Jersey) Ocean Country (Central/South) Middles e x County (Central NJ) and Bergen County (North Jersey) and I didn't know a single UCONN fan or alum. I never saw people wearing shirts or flying flags outside their homes. There may be a few fans , but you'd have to be on the lookout all year long to find one.

Just like Rutgers is insignificant in the state of Connecticut, UCONN is equally insignificant in the state of NJ.

That is the reality.

I don't really want to but it would be disingenuis of me to claim you're far from right..W.Va has about a similar NJ presense but that don't mean UConn's not popular..heck I like em and I'm also an RU fan who follows UConn next and thinks they got a crummy shake in CR!! They have a bigger following than a third of P5 schools as is but FB started late and I guess some nitwits think they still have dues to pay...their wrong....check out the trophy case at UConn.

 

[NickyNewark]

Nicky, we're happy to be on the New England side of the New England/New York cultural divide ... but we're not going to cede NYC sports fans to Rutgers! Keep your game face on because UConn wants those fans!

I'm just giving my opinion pj as I see it...I'm no expert...I'm a fan of you guys too remember.

 

[Phillydave]

Let me take a stab at it for phillydave:

Because everyone who lives in NJ is in love with all things NJ first, particularly the state U - even though the school name is confusing and the campus could be mistaken for any other highway rest stop on the pike.

The second most important thing to a jersey resident is everything else in life, unless it has to do with the state of Connecticut. Then our hatred establishes primacy. Thus the attendance spike.

Regardless, it is impossible for me to believe that anyone outside of my hideous state regards Rutgers as the Tampa Bay Buccaneers of the seventies and eighties, a loser program with a flamboyant mascot.

It just does not make sense that everybody does not see our sleeping-giantness with each demonstration of Rutgers class and victory. Our track record on the field and generosity in giving away free sporting tickets thus earning no revenue should speak for itself.

Our trophy case and awesome proximity to NYC is a tremendous source of pride for even the most temporary NJ resident. That is why it is impossible to imagine anyone rooting for UConn even though there is probably a eload of people in NJ that are from CT. And they win at things and we don't.

And if I was being honest with myself, I would have to acknowledge that a NJ native living in CT don't have the same affinity for old state because there is very little other than a defunct mtv reality show of which to be proud.

Auggie, let me get this straight.

You, as a UCONN football fan, actually have the balls to call ANY OTHER PROGRAM including Rutgers a loser football program, despite the fact that UCONN, unlike Rutgers, has an all-time losing record in football....has had more losing seasons than winning seasons (also unlike Rutgers) has had three straight losing seasons, and has been to only 5 bowls in your history?

You calling Rutgers a losing program despite the fact that RU is playing in their 9th bowl in 10 years today....and despite the fact that RU is 20-10-1 against UCONN all time....is just priceless....and really makes you look ignorant.

But at least you got a few childish digs in against NJ. I'm guessing you're either an immature college kid, or your an adult who still needs to do a lot of growing up.

 

[NickyNewark]

That's the thing about CR I hate most....creating jealousy and animosity between like minded,similar and equally deserving school's on the whole because of backroom policies and politicking by smaller less deserving privates who happen to have the "old" nepotistic Tammany Hall type "deals" going for them rather than true representative region covering state schools that the people really want to see. Certain schools would be on the outside looking in if it (CR) were done in a democratic fair way(peoples vote) with sunshine law's. Greed over fair reasonable moves is not acceptable.....I'm of the belief UConn's admin's already know where their landing but can't speak on it similar to the pre B1G announcement at RU whilst still negotiating a partner school(UConn/UVA)"wishful thinking" or (UConn/VT)"possible" andUConn/ Kansas"most likely". Something will break before the next B1G TV negotiations!?!

 

[NickyNewark]

Always remember what Delany said....East...who in the east fits the B1G profile other than UConn? Right..no one!!..hang in there!!!

 

[Sea Goat]

That's the thing about CR I hate most....creating jealousy and animosity between like minded,similar and equally deserving school's on the whole because of backroom policies and politicking by smaller less deserving privates who happen to have the "old" nepotistic Tammany Hall type "deals" going for them rather than true representative region covering state schools that the people really want to see. Certain schools would be on the outside looking in if it (CR) were done in a democratic fair way(peoples vote) with sunshine law's. Greed over fair reasonable moves is not acceptable.....I'm of the belief UConn's admin's already know where their landing but can't speak on it similar to the pre B1G announcement at RU whilst still negotiating a partner school(UConn/UVA)"wishful thinking" or (UConn/VT)"possible" andUConn/ Kansas"most likely". Something will break before the next B1G TV negotiations!?!

Not dissimilar to what I have heard from some insiders...

You are spot on regarding the "privates" - that has a played a significant role in our issues to date. Things are going to change and I hope we don't have to end up affiliated with the likes of BC or Syra.... ever again.

 

[Adios]

Auggie, let me get this straight.

You, as a UCONN football fan, actually have the balls to call ANY OTHER PROGRAM including Rutgers a loser football program, despite the fact that UCONN, unlike Rutgers, has an all-time losing record in football....has had more losing seasons than winning seasons (also unlike Rutgers) has had three straight losing seasons, and has been to only 5 bowls in your history?

You calling Rutgers a losing program despite the fact that RU is playing in their 9th bowl in 10 years today....and despite the fact that RU is 20-10-1 against UCONN all time....is just priceless....and really makes you look ignorant.

But at least you got a few childish digs in against NJ. I'm guessing you're either an immature college kid, or your an adult who still needs to do a lot of growing up.

You seriously include UConn's years in the College Division/1-AA levels in the all-time record to feel good about Rutgers? I hope you are shining that famous fencing championship trophy from 1948, whenever it was. And as for Rutgers being the birthplace of football....

http://gocrimson.com/information/history/traditiontimeline

May 14, 1874-First Football Game
Football makes its Cambridge debut when Harvard accepts a proposal from McGill University for a two-game series at Jarvis Field, now the site of the Harvard Law School. Harvard wins the opener, 3 goals to 0, and the schools battle to a 0-0 draw the following afternoon. The contests lead directly to the present intercollegiate game of football.

June 4, 1875-Sharp-Dressed Men
Harvard plays its first intercollegiate football game, hosting Tufts at Jarvis Field. Just as historic is that Harvard is outfitted in formal uniforms, believed to be the first time a team has been so identified. The squad is adorned in the newly-chosen school colors, with a uniform of white shirts and pants, with crimson trimming and crimson hose.

Must be fun to tout imaginary stories. Don't worry, the truth will catch up. Especially when UConn gets into the B1G. We have Walter Camp's grave and "The Game" in CT.

 

[auggie22]

A few martinis before hitting the train made theast post a bit more over the top than I intended. I grew up in Connecticut at a time there was a friendly rivalry with our neighbors to the south. As much as I joke I prefer NJ to about 46 other states.

But holy sh;7, you are pretty delusional if you think there is more than a sliver separating UCONN and Rutgers on the football field over the past decade ( by the way, the high water mark in Rutgers athletic history ). And then there is the rest of the AD. Do you seriously question why someone would call the big east's losingest program at everything a loser?

 

[Phillydave]

You seriously include UConn's years in the College Division/1-AA levels in the all-time record to feel good about Rutgers? I hope you are shining that famous fencing championship trophy from 1948, whenever it was. And as for Rutgers being the birthplace of football....

http://gocrimson.com/information/history/traditiontimeline

May 14, 1874-First Football Game
Football makes its Cambridge debut when Harvard accepts a proposal from McGill University for a two-game series at Jarvis Field, now the site of the Harvard Law School. Harvard wins the opener, 3 goals to 0, and the schools battle to a 0-0 draw the following afternoon. The contests lead directly to the present intercollegiate game of football.

June 4, 1875-Sharp-Dressed Men
Harvard plays its first intercollegiate football game, hosting Tufts at Jarvis Field. Just as historic is that Harvard is outfitted in formal uniforms, believed to be the first time a team has been so identified. The squad is adorned in the newly-chosen school colors, with a uniform of white shirts and pants, with crimson trimming and crimson hose.

Must be fun to tout imaginary stories. Don't worry, the truth will catch up. Especially when UConn gets into the B1G. We have Walter Camp's grave and "The Game" in CT.

Why would I NOT include the early games? Rutgers was a 1AA also until 1980 when we made the jump to 1A. Did you not know that? The vast majority of game were played when both schools were at the same level. Do you actually think Rutgers has always been 1A?

And yes, Rutgers played in the first college football game. We are universally recognized as the Birthplace of College Football...including the College Football Hall of Fame, the NCAA, and well.....everyone else in the entire world....but I take great pleasure in how much that pisses you off.

So keep 'em coming. Rutgers, the Birthplace of College Football welcomes your opinion on the matter.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

And you have no data that backs up UCONN having a presence in NJ.

What, a few hundred UCONN alums in a state of over 8 million?

You want to say that a few kids want to go to UCONN because of your hoops success, have at it. But the number is so small it is an insignificant blip. Not sure why you are offended. It is what it is. I lived in NJ all of my life save the last few years. Notre Dame has a big presence. PSU has a big presence. Even Villanova has a presence in Monmouth County.

UCONN does not have a presence. I don't count a handful of kids as a needle-mover. You apparently do.

Dave, saying the same think over and over again on another team's forum does not strengthen your point. It does, however, make you annoying. Seriously, make your point then move on.

 

[Ldandy]

You seriously include UConn's years in the College Division/1-AA levels in the all-time record to feel good about Rutgers? I hope you are shining that famous fencing championship trophy from 1948, whenever it was. And as for Rutgers being the birthplace of football....

http://gocrimson.com/information/history/traditiontimeline

May 14, 1874-First Football Game
Football makes its Cambridge debut when Harvard accepts a proposal from McGill University for a two-game series at Jarvis Field, now the site of the Harvard Law School. Harvard wins the opener, 3 goals to 0, and the schools battle to a 0-0 draw the following afternoon. The contests lead directly to the present intercollegiate game of football.

June 4, 1875-Sharp-Dressed Men
Harvard plays its first intercollegiate football game, hosting Tufts at Jarvis Field. Just as historic is that Harvard is outfitted in formal uniforms, believed to be the first time a team has been so identified. The squad is adorned in the newly-chosen school colors, with a uniform of white shirts and pants, with crimson trimming and crimson hose.

Must be fun to tout imaginary stories. Don't worry, the truth will catch up. Especially when UConn gets into the B1G. We have Walter Camp's grave and "The Game" in CT.

You could have saved yourself a lot of typing and just pointed out the fact that UCONN won more National Championships in a single sport (basketball) last year than Rutgers has won across the entirety of their AD in 150+ years.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

Auggie, let me get this straight.

You, as a UCONN football fan, actually have the balls to call ANY OTHER PROGRAM including Rutgers a loser football program, despite the fact that UCONN, unlike Rutgers, has an all-time losing record in football....has had more losing seasons than winning seasons (also unlike Rutgers) has had three straight losing seasons, and has been to only 5 bowls in your history?

You calling Rutgers a losing program despite the fact that RU is playing in their 9th bowl in 10 years today....and despite the fact that RU is 20-10-1 against UCONN all time....is just priceless....and really makes you look ignorant.

But at least you got a few childish digs in against NJ. I'm guessing you're either an immature college kid, or your an adult who still needs to do a lot of growing up.

Settle down Dude. You just made an ass of yourself.

 

[Dooley]

I wonder if being located so close to the "birthplace of basketball" will ever become as much of a rallying cry for UCONN fans as being the "birthplace of college football" has for Rutgers fans. Anything to deflect the fact that RU offers nothing more than cable boxes (which, to their credit, they delivered), I guess.

 

[Phillydave]

A few martinis before hitting the train made theast post a bit more over the top than I intended. I grew up in Connecticut at a time there was a friendly rivalry with our neighbors to the south. As much as I joke I prefer NJ to about 46 other states.

But holy sh;7, you are pretty delusional if you think there is more than a sliver separating UCONN and Rutgers on the football field over the past decade ( by the way, the high water mark in Rutgers athletic history ). And then there is the rest of the AD. Do you seriously question why someone would call the big east's losingest program at everything a loser?

I only question why a fan of one of the "losingest" college football programs of any school in the country (494-526-39 all-time record) would disparage another school that has, at the very least, won more games than it has lost.

It's almost like you didn't even realize how long and how hard UCONN has sucked in football throughout its entire history.

Otherwise, you wouldn't have said such a stupid thing.

And speaking of the last decade, you ask if there is really any difference between the two schools.

Well, let's see. Rutgers has a record of 78-49 in the last decade. 8 regular season winning records, one losing record (2010) and one 6-6 finish. Conference mark of 36-36. Played in 9 bowl games in 10 years.

UCONN in the same time is 57-66. 6 losing seasons, only 4 winning seasons. Conference record of 28-42. Played in 4 bowl games in 10 years.

Head to Head - Rutgers 6-3 against UCONN.

Holy &hit. Are you really going to tell me that there is no difference between the two programs? You tell me who the delusional one is.

 

[Dooley]

That's the thing about CR I hate most....creating jealousy and animosity between like minded,similar and equally deserving school's on the whole because of backroom policies and politicking by smaller less deserving privates who happen to have the "old" nepotistic Tammany Hall type "deals" going for them rather than true representative region covering state schools that the people really want to see. Certain schools would be on the outside looking in if it (CR) were done in a democratic fair way(peoples vote) with sunshine law's. Greed over fair reasonable moves is not acceptable.....I'm of the belief UConn's admin's already know where their landing but can't speak on it similar to the pre B1G announcement at RU whilst still negotiating a partner school(UConn/UVA)"wishful thinking" or (UConn/VT)"possible" andUConn/ Kansas"most likely". Something will break before the next B1G TV negotiations!?!

Spot on. I actually have no problem with Rutgers, other than stealing what would have been an emotional post-Jaz W from us in 2009, and I understand why they were added: they are AAU, brings NJ football recruiting and a substantial amount of cable boxes. But instead of having rivalries on the court/field where they should be, CR has shifted those rivalries to message boards, DMA sites, and AAU sites.

I can't wait for UCONN to be in a conference with our old buddies again so we can go back to on the court/field rivalries instead of arguing about academics and cable subscriber fees.

 

[Phillydave]

I wonder if being located so close to the "birthplace of basketball" will ever become as much of a rallying cry for UCONN fans as being the "birthplace of college football" has for Rutgers fans. Anything to deflect the fact that RU offers nothing more than cable boxes (which, to their credit, they delivered), I guess.

Actually, considering our attendance records we set this year, averaging 51K, the fact that we are AAU, that we live in a fertile recruiting area, and move the needle in the NYC TV market more than any other football program, including Penn State, Notre Dame, and Syracuse, I think we offer a lot more than just cable boxes. But I understand the hatred you feel....and how you wish you were in our shoes.