Bowlsby: Big 12 Would Look "East not West"

[OkaForPrez]

I have no idea. I have ever seen a UCONN fan wearing a shirt, or flying a flag outside their home, or with a UCONN decal on their car. I would say the number is so insignificant that it does not move the needle at all.

I'm not saying that to disparage your school. It's just that UCONN is the state U. of Connecticut, NOT NJ.

I'm sure there are som alumni in New Jersey, but it is such a tiny portion of the population that it wouldn't even register percentage-wise.

Do you live in North or South Jersey? I had a dozen or so "inner circle" friends in college, 5 of them were from Northern New Jersey. My sister, a UConn fan, was raised in CT and now lives in North Jersey. I have several cousins in North Jersey who root for and watch UConn regularly because of association with my family.

My science is no better than yours (which is why I'm asking) but I find it hard to believe we don't have a pretty decent footprint of out of state alumni and CT transplants in the greater NYC and North Jersey area.

 

[UConnDan97]

But we weren't a div 1 program yet right ?

If you want to get into a semantics battle, that's fine. We were accepted by the NCAA prior to our victory. But more importantly, we were part of a league that was considered part of the "Big 6" at the time, and furthermore, we CURRENTLY have a D-1 football program.

All of those facts add up to the main fact that nobody without one has won the whole thing since Nova in '85. Hopefully, that's good enough for you...

 

[UConnDan97]

No it is not. Georgetown, Nova and others will continue to do just fine. There is a reason why there are twice as many schools playing basketball at the highest level than football. It's much, much cheaper. UConn could survive just fine with an FCS football program.

That said, I don't want to throw in the towel. I waited long enough for the school to upgrade, I am not ready to give up.

Well then, I will eagerly await the time when Nova and GTown win it all again. Jim Calhoun never saw that during his time as a UConn head coach. Kevin Ollie has yet to see it. There's a large difference between continuing to "do just fine" and to continue what we have here at UConn. That's the point that I don't think people are getting.

I don't want to just sniff the top 25 every other year. I want to win it all. And the ones who win it all don't come from the non-football conferences...

 

[Chuck]

Do you live in North or South Jersey? I had a dozen or so "inner circle" friends in college, 5 of them were from Northern New Jersey. My sister, a UConn fan, was raised in CT and now lives in North Jersey. I have several cousins in North Jersey who root for and watch UConn regularly because of association with my family.

My science is no better than yours (which is why I'm asking) but I find it hard to believe we don't have a pretty decent footprint of out of state alumni and CT transplants in the greater NYC and North Jersey area.

The Jersey guys on this board seem to be Bergen guys (we should all meet at Millers for a UConn game). Bergen is different than saying "North Jersey." RU has a slight advantage but there is no real regional favorite. You will see stickers from every great and crap school that you can imagine. In my small town (11,000 people in 2.7 sq miles) there are some other UConn fans. Bergen doesn't do college flags.

I graduated from a high school in Passaic Country. We had a number of people that didn't come to a reunion because RU was playing PSU and they were going to the game. Many didn't go to either school. RU has made legitimate strides. I still think the rivalry could've been great.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Well then, I will eagerly await the time when Nova and GTown win it all again. Jim Calhoun never saw that during his time as a UConn head coach. Kevin Ollie has yet to see it. There's a large difference between continuing to "do just fine" and to continue what we have here at UConn. That's the point that I don't think people are getting.

I don't want to just sniff the top 25 every other year. I want to win it all. And the ones who win it all don't come from the non-football conferences...

Over the course of 35 NCAA tournaments since 198o, out of 70 NCAA final 4 Championship games, 15 participants have not been from current P5 football/basketball playing schools resulting in 7 Championships. That is a 21% participation rate and a 10% success rate. Eliminating the participants in this group that sponsor D1 football, it drops to 7 participants (a 10% participation rate) and 2 championships (3% success rate)

Clearly, going it alone without football is not the path to success on the basketball court.

Non-P5 NCAA Final 4 Participants since 1980

• UConn: '99, '04, '11, '13
  
• Georgetown: '82, '84, '85
• Butler: '10, '11
• Houston: '83, '84
• Memphis: '08 (vacated)
  
• Seton Hall: '89
• UNLV: '90
• Villanova: '85

Non-P5 NCAA Final 4 Champions since 1980

• UConn: '99, '04, '11, '14
• Georgetown: '84
• UNLV: '90
• Villanova: '85

 

[DarthGrumpy]

The Jersey guys on this board seem to be Bergen guys (we should all meet at Millers for a UConn game). Bergen is different than saying "North Jersey." RU has a slight advantage but there is no real regional favorite. You will see stickers from every great and crap school that you can imagine. In my small town (11,000 people in 2.7 sq miles) there are some other UConn fans. Bergen doesn't do college flags

My borough was in recent times a very big Rutgers supporter not only due to the number of Rutgers alumni in town (the darn head coach for the rec team that I am an assistant coach, has named the team Rutgers, just to annoy me I believe); but, also because Rutgers' former AD is heavily involved in youth sports (talk about a bad commute!) and thus folks who where unattached to a major college team, rooted for Rutgers because of him.

 

[Phillydave]

Do you live in North or South Jersey? I had a dozen or so "inner circle" friends in college, 5 of them were from Northern New Jersey. My sister, a UConn fan, was raised in CT and now lives in North Jersey. I have several cousins in North Jersey who root for and watch UConn regularly because of association with my family.

My science is no better than yours (which is why I'm asking) but I find it hard to believe we don't have a pretty decent footprint of out of state alumni and CT transplants in the greater NYC and North Jersey area.

I live in the suburbs of Philadelphia now....but came most recently from Fair Haven, NJ, which borders Red Bank in Monmouth County. Prior to that, I lived in Ridgewood, NJ in Bergen County.

In college at Rutgers, my girlfriend of 2 years was from North Haven Connecticut. She wasn't the only CT resident we knew. There were others.

I asked her at the time why she chose RU. It was because her best friend in North Haven had an older sister going to Rutgers, who loved it, so she looked into it when the time came, because she wanted to get out of state, but not too far.

There are some examples of residents from both states going to each other's state U. and I would say Connecticut was probably the number 4 feeder school (after NJ, NY, and PA) for students.....but it still doesn't mean it is a significant number.

My entire family still lives in NJ. I only live 40 minutes from the PA/NJ border.....and I'm there all the time for business.

I just don't see any UCONN presence whatsoever when I'm there. I see a significant Notre Dame and Villanova presence in Monmouth County.....because there are so many Catholic high schools around here.....but I don't see any UCONN flags or decals.

It is by no means a slight. It's just the way it is.

Likewise, for any Rutgers fan to say our influence extends into CT is just wrong...and wishful thinking.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Well then, I will eagerly await the time when Nova and GTown win it all again. Jim Calhoun never saw that during his time as a UConn head coach. Kevin Ollie has yet to see it. There's a large difference between continuing to "do just fine" and to continue what we have here at UConn. That's the point that I don't think people are getting.

I don't want to just sniff the top 25 every other year. I want to win it all. And the ones who win it all don't come from the non-football conferences...

I admit it is harder. But we just won a national championship from outside of a P5. The one before that we played Butler in the title game and VCU made the final four. In 2013 Wichita State made it. I think, once you get to the elite 8 or final four, it doesn't matter. It's match-ups and other factors. But you are right that the last school who won a NC and didn't play D1 football was...UConn in 1999, and Villanova before that in 1985.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I live in the suburbs of Philadelphia now....but came most recently from Fair Haven, NJ, which borders Red Bank in Monmouth County. Prior to that, I lived in Ridgewood, NJ in Bergen County.

In college at Rutgers, my girlfriend of 2 years was from North Haven Connecticut. She wasn't the only CT resident we knew. There were others.

I asked her at the time why she chose RU. It was because her best friend in North Haven had an older sister going to Rutgers, who loved it, so she looked into it when the time came, because she wanted to get out of state, but not too far.

There are some examples of residents from both states going to each other's state U. and I would say Connecticut was probably the number 4 feeder school (after NJ, NY, and PA) for students.....but it still doesn't mean it is a significant number.

My entire family still lives in NJ. I only live 40 minutes from the PA/NJ border.....and I'm there all the time for business.

I just don't see any UCONN presence whatsoever when I'm there. I see a significant Notre Dame and Villanova presence in Monmouth County.....because there are so many Catholic high schools around here.....but I don't see any UCONN flags or decals.

It is by no means a slight. It's just the way it is.

Likewise, for any Rutgers fan to say our influence extends into CT is just wrong...and wishful thinking.

I believe this. On the other hand, I've seen lots of UConn hats and shirts in Los Angeles, San Jose, Chicago, and other places. Those aren't alumni, they are kids who chose to be UConn fans. As a basketball team, UConn is a national brand, like Kentucky, Duke, Kansas, North Carolina. Rutgers is not a national brand in any athletic respect.

 

[UConnDan97]

I admit it is harder. But we just won a national championship from outside of a P5. The one before that we played Butler in the title game and VCU made the final four. In 2013 Wichita State made it. I think, once you get to the elite 8 or final four, it doesn't matter. It's match-ups and other factors. But you are right that the last school who won a NC and didn't play D1 football was...UConn in 1999, and Villanova before that in 1985.

Don't mistake what I'm saying with "P5". I'm not saying "P5". I'm saying D-1 football. The discussion started with Whaler's comment that we cannot give up on D-1 football.

Conehead summed it up nicely. And you can add UNLV and UConn to what I'm talking about. Conehead was being nice when he went back to 1980, so that GTown and Nova could get 1 each. After 1985, the answer goes to zero...

 

[HuskyHawk]

Don't mistake what I'm saying with "P5". I'm not saying "P5". I'm saying D-1 football. The discussion started with Whaler's comment that we cannot give up on D-1 football.

Conehead summed it up nicely. And you can add UNLV and UConn to what I'm talking about. Conehead was being nice when he went back to 1980, so that GTown and Nova could get 1 each. After 1985, the answer goes to zero...

After 1999. UConn was not playing D1 football when we won the first title, we were Yankee conference. But as I said, I don't want to give up D1 football either. But I don't think it would prevent UConn from winning another title if we do, in fact, if we are in the American with no Cinci (and worse, no Memphis), then I think our basketball championship odds would be higher in the Big East, I really do.

 

[HobokenHusky]

I live in the suburbs of Philadelphia now....but came most recently from Fair Haven, NJ, which borders Red Bank in Monmouth County. Prior to that, I lived in Ridgewood, NJ in Bergen County.

In college at Rutgers, my girlfriend of 2 years was from North Haven Connecticut. She wasn't the only CT resident we knew. There were others.

I asked her at the time why she chose RU. It was because her best friend in North Haven had an older sister going to Rutgers, who loved it, so she looked into it when the time came, because she wanted to get out of state, but not too far.

There are some examples of residents from both states going to each other's state U. and I would say Connecticut was probably the number 4 feeder school (after NJ, NY, and PA) for students.....but it still doesn't mean it is a significant number.

My entire family still lives in NJ. I only live 40 minutes from the PA/NJ border.....and I'm there all the time for business.

I just don't see any UCONN presence whatsoever when I'm there. I see a significant Notre Dame and Villanova presence in Monmouth County.....because there are so many Catholic high schools around here.....but I don't see any UCONN flags or decals.

It is by no means a slight. It's just the way it is.

Likewise, for any Rutgers fan to say our influence extends into CT is just wrong...and wishful thinking.

You not part of the NJ UConn demographic. The out-of-state UConn demographic is 40-35 and younger (UConn started to gain both athletic and academic national notoriety from 2000 onward). The UConn NJ demo is not the demographic that hangs UConn flags outside of their homes in Ridgewood and throws a UConn sticker on the back of their car, at least not yet. They are still in young NY commuter cities. The dynamic has changed. Several (at least 10) students from my NJ HS went to UConn and have moved back to NJ. I have several friends from UConn in the mid-2000's that were also from NJ. Times have changed. We are certainly not PSU in terms of NJ presence, but we at least slightly move the needle at this point, and the IZod center showing demonstrates that.

 

[Stray_Dog]

In my opinion, I think this will happen, at some point, in the next 10-15 years. The NCAA Tourney is a $1B revenue generator...for the NCAA (not the conferences). If the P5 completely split from the NCAA (like they're moving towards anyway), how long will it take for them to figure out that a P5-only tournament that features their programs can generate the same kind of payout without giving it to the NCAA? The mega-fanbases in the P5 would drive ratings through the roof. And while the P5 hoops tourney would lose the "Cinderella appeal" charm of the NCAA Tourney, it wouldn't matter because the P5 has conquered just about every large DMA in the country. CR is all about money, not protecting the charm or true rivalry aspects that used to make college athletics so fun to watch.

The good news for UCONN is that if/when this hoops split happens, and the focus shifts from football to basketball, our P5 value skyrockets. The P5 can surely ink a lucrative TV deal without UCONN. But with UCONN in the mix, not only does the new P5 tourney gain penetration into the huge northeast markets that UCONN helps carry (NYC, Boston, Hartford/New Haven = ratings = $$$), but it also brings more credibility to the P5 tourney because UCONN is a national powerhouse and contender in most seasons. Let's say UNC wins the 2022 P5 championship going 22-8 that season and UCONN, while playing in a mid-major Big East conference, goes 28-2 and wins the NCAA Tourney. Because of UCONN's history and elite status as a basketball blue blood, there would potentially be quite a few pockets of fans in the country that would claim UCONN was better than UNC that year. The P5 would have to acquire as many "blue blood" elite names as possible for their tourney to bring validity to declaring its champion the "best". To gain access to this tournament, UCONN *has* to continue playing football to get a P5 invite.

I understand that UCONN is a basketball school and always will be. That's fine. There is a fit for that inside the P5 (look at Duke, UNC, Kentucky, Syracuse, Indiana, etc) as long as the football programs are competitive every now and again and the basketball programs continue to deliver ratings. I think UCONN can get back to that point - hell, we were at that point in 2011 when we had a BCS football team and 2 hoops national championships.

I also understand that our fanbase, for whatever odd reason, seems to be fragmented between basketball (and even men's vs. women's basketball) and football. I will never in 1,000 years understand the reason for this. But I do realize that the "hoops first" fans probably hold some sort of resentment towards the football program for its struggles and the idea that it is football holding us back from a P5 conference. I just don't, for the life of me, understand why our fans would want to dump football now and go back to playing in a mid-major Big East conference. The payout there is roughly $5M/yr. In other words, not even enough to cover paying our head coach's salaries. So what coach are we going to have to let go because we can't continue to fund that program, long-term? Ollie makes $3M/yr. Geno makes $2M/yr. One, or both, would have to go. And who would we bring in at for $1M/yr to coach in a mid-major conference? Further more, how long would we keep him until a P5 school with 4-10x more money than UCONN can come in and double/triple/quadruple their salary and lure them away? Imagine the ire of every UCONN fan of losing a Kevin Ollie type to Boston College or Syracuse or Rutgers simply because they can pay a salary that we can't even come close to matching. That's what will happen if we moved back to the Big East.

Stay the course. Sports are cyclical. Football will improve. When it does, our P5 value improves instantly. We already have shown we can really help deliver NYC/NJ. Hopefully we will show in 2016 that we can help deliver Boston with a strong fan showing at Gillette against UMASS. We just need football to win a few games and keep doing what we're doing by investing heavily in research. We are still in Year 2 of the 3-5 Year B1G Plan.

I liked this but with one caveat, Syracuse is NOT a basketball school, certainly not like Duke, Kentucky, or Indiana!

 

[DarthGrumpy]

You not part of the NJ UConn demographic. The out-of-state UConn demographic is 40-35 and younger (UConn started to gain both athletic and academic national notoriety from 2000 onward). The UConn NJ demo is not the demographic that hangs UConn flags outside of their homes in Ridgewood and throws a UConn sticker on the back of their car, at least not yet. They are still in young NY commuter cities. The dynamic has changed. Several (at least 10) students from my NJ HS went to UConn and have moved back to NJ. I have several friends from UConn in the mid-2000's that were also from NJ. Times have changed. We are certainly not PSU in terms of NJ presence, but we at least slightly move the needle at this point, and the IZod center showing demonstrates that.

There was some Jersey in the water at UConn back in the early 90's, too. For example, my chem 101 lab partner from somewhere in Bergen or Passiac County and graduated from an all-girls' Catholic High School. She left a mark on me to the degree that I have already told my two boys, ages 8 and 4, they will never be allowed to date a girl who goes to an all-girls' Catholic school in Jersey

 

[businesslawyer]

Without any statistical data to back it up, here is the similarity and difference between UConn in NJ and Rutgers in CT. In each state, there are significant numbers of transplants and alumni, but not enough to move the meter in any real respect. However, given that all of UConn's games are shown in at least most of Jersey, and UConn is a national brand and a winner in hoops, it would be silly to think there aren't a significant number of younger consumers who have become UConn fans because you can watch basically every game on TV and they win and send players to the NBA (and WNBA).

So you can tell me all you want about what flags you see, but without data you are not going to get me to believe that some kids in North and Jersey aren't growing up as UConn fans where they can watch all the games of a national competive basketball team.

 

[CL82]

At rush hour?

I could get to Izod from New Haven in 1 1/2 hours. In no traffic.

Ah got it it.

 

[Phillydave]

You not part of the NJ UConn demographic. The out-of-state UConn demographic is 40-35 and younger (UConn started to gain both athletic and academic national notoriety from 2000 onward). The UConn NJ demo is not the demographic that hangs UConn flags outside of their homes in Ridgewood and throws a UConn sticker on the back of their car, at least not yet. They are still in young NY commuter cities. The dynamic has changed. Several (at least 10) students from my NJ HS went to UConn and have moved back to NJ. I have several friends from UConn in the mid-2000's that were also from NJ. Times have changed. We are certainly not PSU in terms of NJ presence, but we at least slightly move the needle at this point, and the IZod center showing demonstrates that.

I'm 46. I'm not a relic just yet.

I have an "R" decal on my car...and fly a Rutgers flag out here in PSU territory.

I'm sorry. UCONN does not move the needle at all in NJ. You may have a dozen or so friends in NJ that went to UCONN, but that hardly constitutes moving the needle.

I'm willing to bet the vast majority of UCONN fans drove to that game at IZOD from out of state.

 

[Phillydave]

Without any statistical data to back it up, here is the similarity and difference between UConn in NJ and Rutgers in CT. In each state, there are significant numbers of transplants and alumni, but not enough to move the meter in any real respect. However, given that all of UConn's games are shown in at least most of Jersey, and UConn is a national brand and a winner in hoops, it would be silly to think there aren't a significant number of younger consumers who have become UConn fans because you can watch basically every game on TV and they win and send players to the NBA (and WNBA).

So you can tell me all you want about what flags you see, but without data you are not going to get me to believe that some kids in North and Jersey aren't growing up as UConn fans where they can watch all the games of a national competitive basketball team.

Think what you want to think.....but having lived all over NJ for all but a few years.....I can tell you UCONN's presence is so miniscule that it doesn't move the needle at all.

 

[auggie22]

This. I was going to post a response to phillydave, but you basically nailed my response succinctly.

 

[Phillydave]

Without any statistical data to back it up, here is the similarity and difference between UConn in NJ and Rutgers in CT. In each state, there are significant numbers of transplants and alumni, but not enough to move the meter in any real respect. However, given that all of UConn's games are shown in at least most of Jersey, and UConn is a national brand and a winner in hoops, it would be silly to think there aren't a significant number of younger consumers who have become UConn fans because you can watch basically every game on TV and they win and send players to the NBA (and WNBA).

So you can tell me all you want about what flags you see, but without data you are not going to get me to believe that some kids in North and Jersey aren't growing up as UConn fans where they can watch all the games of a national competive basketball team.

And you have no data that backs up UCONN having a presence in NJ.

What, a few hundred UCONN alums in a state of over 8 million?

You want to say that a few kids want to go to UCONN because of your hoops success, have at it. But the number is so small it is an insignificant blip. Not sure why you are offended. It is what it is. I lived in NJ all of my life save the last few years. Notre Dame has a big presence. PSU has a big presence. Even Villanova has a presence in Monmouth County.

UCONN does not have a presence. I don't count a handful of kids as a needle-mover. You apparently do.

 

[auggie22]

Think what you want to think.....but having lived all over NJ for all but a few years.....I can tell you UCONN's presence is so miniscule that it doesn't move the needle at all.

Does Duke move the needle in NJ?

Look, I'm not saying uconn carries any more weight in NJ than Duke does. But it is foolish to assume that a popular bball brand a few miles from your border cannot find 10,000 fans from among your population. Duke seems to be doing ok without shuttling people from Durham.

 

[Phillydave]

Does Duke move the needle in NJ?

Look, I'm not saying uconn carries any more weight in NJ than Duke does. But it is foolish to assume that a popular bball brand a few miles from your border cannot find 10,000 fans from among your population. Duke seems to be doing ok without shuttling people from Durham.

If you think there are 10,000 NJ residents that are UCONN fans, then you are simply wishful thinking.

 

[upstater]

If you think there are 10,000 NJ residents that are UCONN fans, then you are simply wishful thinking.

7000+ in NYC that Uconn knows of, 1300 in the 3 NJ counties that border the city. Uconn doesn't list total Uconn grads from Westchester or upstate NY nor all of NJ.

There are 14500+ in the Fairfield CT area. That Uconn knows of--this should give you a sense of how ncomplete the info is, since there are 30k students at Uconn in a state of 3.5m. Fairfield is 1/3rd of Conn. There have to be a lot more grads there. I'd multiply that number by 4x at least to get a more accurate number.

This is what comprises the UConn NYC alumni club. A total of 22800 people in the NYC DMA that UConn knows of.

 

[Samoo]

If you think there are 10,000 NJ residents that are UCONN fans, then you are simply wishful thinking.

About 4,500 UCONN undergrads are from out of state. Let's say a low ball average of 300 a year for the past 20 years come from NJ, that's 6,000, and you know how those Jersey folk tend to return home. Add the grads from CT and other places that have relocated to Jersey because they work there, in NY or Phili; any gradutate school attendees; and then sprinkle in the bandwagon fans who have jumped aboard because we happen to have won 4 National Championships in the last 15 years.

Nope, I think it is you who is wishfully thinking.

 

[billybud]

Back and forth and back...

Sewing buttons on ice cream....