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Bowlsby: Big 12 Would Look "East not West"

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I'm sorry, but UCONN does NOT deliver ANY of the NJ market. NJ couldn't care less about the state U. of Connecticut.
Maybe there are a handful of people in NJ that are alums of UCONN, and they care.....but that is where it ends.

IF you want to say UCONN delivers part of the NYC market....fine...feel free to make that argument. But UCONN does not move the needle at all in NJ. Not outside the tiny number of UCONN alums that live in NJ.
I live in North Jersey. Before Rutgers went to the B1G I rarely saw an RU flag or tee shirt up here. There's more now but still nothing like UConn's following in Connecticut. I do see UConn flags and UConn gear, however. Quite of bit of it matter of fact. I can think of four houses just in my neighborhood. Are we all Connecticut transplants? Yea, but households are households. I've never seen an Rutgers flag in Connecticut, ever.
 
If they took the day off work. Otherwise, they're not getting out of 5 and making it to the iZod in 3 hours unless they drive from Fairfield. Ain't happening from Storrs or Hartford.

Why are you so touchy?

By the way, the UConn men and women last year pulled the biggest ratings ever in NYC for any college game. The men did an 11, while the women were close to 5.
You can get from SE Connecticut to Izod in 3 hours. I've done it.
 
If they took the day off work. Otherwise, they're not getting out of 5 and making it to the iZod in 3 hours unless they drive from Fairfield. Ain't happening from Storrs or Hartford.

Why are you so touchy?

By the way, the UConn men and women last year pulled the biggest ratings ever in NYC for any college game. The men did an 11, while the women were close to 5.
Shy of my days as an undergrad (three years on campus, one off) and a brief stretch in the mid 1990's i've lived in Stamford my entire life (54 years). I've been to a ton of events at the Byrne Arena (now Izod center), albeit none since 1992 and I've always viewed the Civic Center (where I've seen more than double the events as the Izod) as a more difficult destination. I believe that you are correct about Hartford and Storrs but I also believe that the Izod is accesible from a bit further away than Fairfield.
 
This patch job of a conference will be completely worthless if Cincinnati and Central Florida hit the road.I already thought that this was a disaster of a conference.What word comes to mind after disaster ?? :eek:

Desolation.
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I'm sorry, but UCONN does NOT deliver ANY of the NJ market. NJ couldn't care less about the state U. of Connecticut.
Maybe there are a handful of people in NJ that are alums of UCONN, and they care.....but that is where it ends.

IF you want to say UCONN delivers part of the NYC market....fine...feel free to make that argument. But UCONN does not move the needle at all in NJ. Not outside the tiny number of UCONN alums that live in NJ.

When you play sports well for a long period of time, you accumulate fans. Even those that are not alumns. i have read many an article of nyc and jersey hoops prospects who say they rooted for UCONN growing up.

I find it hilarious that a Rutgers fan cannot piece this together without help.
 
You can get from SE Connecticut to Izod in 3 hours. I've done it.

At rush hour?

I could get to Izod from New Haven in 1 1/2 hours. In no traffic.
 
It still amazes me how many people STILL don't get this fact...and it IS a fact...

No it is not. Georgetown, Nova and others will continue to do just fine. There is a reason why there are twice as many schools playing basketball at the highest level than football. It's much, much cheaper. UConn could survive just fine with an FCS football program.

That said, I don't want to throw in the towel. I waited long enough for the school to upgrade, I am not ready to give up.
 
I live in North Jersey. Before Rutgers went to the B1G I rarely saw an RU flag or tee shirt up here. There's more now but still nothing like UConn's following in Connecticut. I do see UConn flags and UConn gear, however. Quite of bit of it matter of fact. I can think of four houses just in my neighborhood. Are we all Connecticut transplants? Yea, but households are households. I've never seen an Rutgers flag in Connecticut, ever.

I live in NNJ, also; but, it is a town (borough) in which many kids after college and time in NYC move back to to raise a family and thus I am not surprised that I mostly see Rutgers flags around town with Penn State as the next most popular plus. Beyond that I see Army, Princeton, Cornell, Quinnipiac, a few BC (they recruit heavily both athletes and non-athletes from the local catholic schools) and odd number of Clemson, and of course Colorado (my co-coach in soccer was a ski bum in high school, thus that choice). Plus, of course, many cars have decals from the local non-D1 schools like Montclair St, Ramapo, & William Patterson. I have yet to see a Syracuse sticker yet.
 
If they took the day off work. Otherwise, they're not getting out of 5 and making it to the iZod in 3 hours unless they drive from Fairfield. Ain't happening from Storrs or Hartford.

Why are you so touchy?

By the way, the UConn men and women last year pulled the biggest ratings ever in NYC for any college game. The men did an 11, while the women were close to 5.

I'm not touchy...just a realist. UCONN has exactly the kind of fans that WOULD take off early...or take the day off altogether, to travel 2-3 hours to see the number one team in the country play their extremely established program.

Why are you so opinionated to think otherwise?
 
When you play sports well for a long period of time, you accumulate fans. Even those that are not alumns. i have read many an article of nyc and jersey hoops prospects who say they rooted for UCONN growing up.

I find it hilarious that a Rutgers fan cannot piece this together without help.

If you want to think that UCONN has a presence in NJ.....go for it. You'd be very wrong....but have at it.

I lived in NJ for 42 years up until a few years ago, in towns in Monmouth County (Central Jersey) Ocean Country (Central/South) Middlesex County (Central NJ) and Bergen County (North Jersey) and I didn't know a single UCONN fan or alum. I never saw people wearing shirts or flying flags outside their homes. There may be a few fans , but you'd have to be on the lookout all year long to find one.

Just like Rutgers is insignificant in the state of Connecticut, UCONN is equally insignificant in the state of NJ.

That is the reality.
 
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I'm not touchy...just a realist. UCONN has exactly the kind of fans that WOULD take off early...or take the day off altogether, to travel 2-3 hours to see the number one team in the country play their extremely established program.

Why are you so opinionated to think otherwise?

What would you guess to be the number of active alumni for UConn in the state of New Jersey?
 
What would you guess to be the number of active alumni for UConn in the state of New Jersey?

I have no idea. I have ever seen a UCONN fan wearing a shirt, or flying a flag outside their home, or with a UCONN decal on their car. I would say the number is so insignificant that it does not move the needle at all.

I'm not saying that to disparage your school. It's just that UCONN is the state U. of Connecticut, NOT NJ.

I'm sure there are som alumni in New Jersey, but it is such a tiny portion of the population that it wouldn't even register percentage-wise.
 
When you play sports well for a long period of time, you accumulate fans. Even those that are not alumns. i have read many an article of nyc and jersey hoops prospects who say they rooted for UCONN growing up.

I find it hilarious that a Rutgers fan cannot piece this together without help.
Back in March 2012, I was in northeast PA (Wilkes-barre / Scranton) over the weekend that Pitt was playing at UConn. We found ourselves at a restaurant where the game was on. As I went up to the TV to watch the end of the game, local kids (age 10-13) were cheering on our huskies to the win. One kid approached and asked another, "why are you rooting for UConn?" He replied, "because they are the best; they are champions!" Winning breeds fans regardless of where they are located. Fans of some teams just can't relate and that breeds hate.

Purely anecdotal, but true nonetheless.
 
I have no idea. I have ever seen a UCONN fan wearing a shirt, or flying a flag outside their home, or with a UCONN decal on their car. I would say the number is so insignificant that it does not move the needle at all.

I'm not saying that to disparage your school. It's just that UCONN is the state U. of Connecticut, NOT NJ.

I'm sure there are som alumni in New Jersey, but it is such a tiny portion of the population that it wouldn't even register percentage-wise.

Do you live in North or South Jersey? I had a dozen or so "inner circle" friends in college, 5 of them were from Northern New Jersey. My sister, a UConn fan, was raised in CT and now lives in North Jersey. I have several cousins in North Jersey who root for and watch UConn regularly because of association with my family.

My science is no better than yours (which is why I'm asking) but I find it hard to believe we don't have a pretty decent footprint of out of state alumni and CT transplants in the greater NYC and North Jersey area.
 
But we weren't a div 1 program yet right ?

If you want to get into a semantics battle, that's fine. We were accepted by the NCAA prior to our victory. But more importantly, we were part of a league that was considered part of the "Big 6" at the time, and furthermore, we CURRENTLY have a D-1 football program.

All of those facts add up to the main fact that nobody without one has won the whole thing since Nova in '85. Hopefully, that's good enough for you...
 
No it is not. Georgetown, Nova and others will continue to do just fine. There is a reason why there are twice as many schools playing basketball at the highest level than football. It's much, much cheaper. UConn could survive just fine with an FCS football program.

That said, I don't want to throw in the towel. I waited long enough for the school to upgrade, I am not ready to give up.

Well then, I will eagerly await the time when Nova and GTown win it all again. Jim Calhoun never saw that during his time as a UConn head coach. Kevin Ollie has yet to see it. There's a large difference between continuing to "do just fine" and to continue what we have here at UConn. That's the point that I don't think people are getting.

I don't want to just sniff the top 25 every other year. I want to win it all. And the ones who win it all don't come from the non-football conferences...
 
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Do you live in North or South Jersey? I had a dozen or so "inner circle" friends in college, 5 of them were from Northern New Jersey. My sister, a UConn fan, was raised in CT and now lives in North Jersey. I have several cousins in North Jersey who root for and watch UConn regularly because of association with my family.

My science is no better than yours (which is why I'm asking) but I find it hard to believe we don't have a pretty decent footprint of out of state alumni and CT transplants in the greater NYC and North Jersey area.

The Jersey guys on this board seem to be Bergen guys (we should all meet at Millers for a UConn game). Bergen is different than saying "North Jersey." RU has a slight advantage but there is no real regional favorite. You will see stickers from every great and crap school that you can imagine. In my small town (11,000 people in 2.7 sq miles) there are some other UConn fans. Bergen doesn't do college flags.

I graduated from a high school in Passaic Country. We had a number of people that didn't come to a reunion because RU was playing PSU and they were going to the game. Many didn't go to either school. RU has made legitimate strides. I still think the rivalry could've been great.
 
Well then, I will eagerly await the time when Nova and GTown win it all again. Jim Calhoun never saw that during his time as a UConn head coach. Kevin Ollie has yet to see it. There's a large difference between continuing to "do just fine" and to continue what we have here at UConn. That's the point that I don't think people are getting.

I don't want to just sniff the top 25 every other year. I want to win it all. And the ones who win it all don't come from the non-football conferences...

Over the course of 35 NCAA tournaments since 198o, out of 70 NCAA final 4 Championship games, 15 participants have not been from current P5 football/basketball playing schools resulting in 7 Championships. That is a 21% participation rate and a 10% success rate. Eliminating the participants in this group that sponsor D1 football, it drops to 7 participants (a 10% participation rate) and 2 championships (3% success rate)

Clearly, going it alone without football is not the path to success on the basketball court.

Non-P5 NCAA Final 4 Participants since 1980
  • UConn: '99, '04, '11, '13
  • Georgetown: '82, '84, '85
  • Butler: '10, '11
  • Houston: '83, '84
  • Memphis: '08 (vacated)
  • Seton Hall: '89
  • UNLV: '90
  • Villanova: '85
Non-P5 NCAA Final 4 Champions since 1980
  • UConn: '99, '04, '11, '14
  • Georgetown: '84
  • UNLV: '90
  • Villanova: '85
 
The Jersey guys on this board seem to be Bergen guys (we should all meet at Millers for a UConn game). Bergen is different than saying "North Jersey." RU has a slight advantage but there is no real regional favorite. You will see stickers from every great and crap school that you can imagine. In my small town (11,000 people in 2.7 sq miles) there are some other UConn fans. Bergen doesn't do college flags

My borough was in recent times a very big Rutgers supporter not only due to the number of Rutgers alumni in town (the darn head coach for the rec team that I am an assistant coach, has named the team Rutgers, just to annoy me I believe); but, also because Rutgers' former AD is heavily involved in youth sports (talk about a bad commute!) and thus folks who where unattached to a major college team, rooted for Rutgers because of him.
 
Do you live in North or South Jersey? I had a dozen or so "inner circle" friends in college, 5 of them were from Northern New Jersey. My sister, a UConn fan, was raised in CT and now lives in North Jersey. I have several cousins in North Jersey who root for and watch UConn regularly because of association with my family.

My science is no better than yours (which is why I'm asking) but I find it hard to believe we don't have a pretty decent footprint of out of state alumni and CT transplants in the greater NYC and North Jersey area.

I live in the suburbs of Philadelphia now....but came most recently from Fair Haven, NJ, which borders Red Bank in Monmouth County. Prior to that, I lived in Ridgewood, NJ in Bergen County.

In college at Rutgers, my girlfriend of 2 years was from North Haven Connecticut. She wasn't the only CT resident we knew. There were others.

I asked her at the time why she chose RU. It was because her best friend in North Haven had an older sister going to Rutgers, who loved it, so she looked into it when the time came, because she wanted to get out of state, but not too far.

There are some examples of residents from both states going to each other's state U. and I would say Connecticut was probably the number 4 feeder school (after NJ, NY, and PA) for students.....but it still doesn't mean it is a significant number.

My entire family still lives in NJ. I only live 40 minutes from the PA/NJ border.....and I'm there all the time for business.

I just don't see any UCONN presence whatsoever when I'm there. I see a significant Notre Dame and Villanova presence in Monmouth County.....because there are so many Catholic high schools around here.....but I don't see any UCONN flags or decals.

It is by no means a slight. It's just the way it is.

Likewise, for any Rutgers fan to say our influence extends into CT is just wrong...and wishful thinking.
 
Well then, I will eagerly await the time when Nova and GTown win it all again. Jim Calhoun never saw that during his time as a UConn head coach. Kevin Ollie has yet to see it. There's a large difference between continuing to "do just fine" and to continue what we have here at UConn. That's the point that I don't think people are getting.

I don't want to just sniff the top 25 every other year. I want to win it all. And the ones who win it all don't come from the non-football conferences...

I admit it is harder. But we just won a national championship from outside of a P5. The one before that we played Butler in the title game and VCU made the final four. In 2013 Wichita State made it. I think, once you get to the elite 8 or final four, it doesn't matter. It's match-ups and other factors. But you are right that the last school who won a NC and didn't play D1 football was...UConn in 1999, and Villanova before that in 1985.
 
I live in the suburbs of Philadelphia now....but came most recently from Fair Haven, NJ, which borders Red Bank in Monmouth County. Prior to that, I lived in Ridgewood, NJ in Bergen County.

In college at Rutgers, my girlfriend of 2 years was from North Haven Connecticut. She wasn't the only CT resident we knew. There were others.

I asked her at the time why she chose RU. It was because her best friend in North Haven had an older sister going to Rutgers, who loved it, so she looked into it when the time came, because she wanted to get out of state, but not too far.

There are some examples of residents from both states going to each other's state U. and I would say Connecticut was probably the number 4 feeder school (after NJ, NY, and PA) for students.....but it still doesn't mean it is a significant number.

My entire family still lives in NJ. I only live 40 minutes from the PA/NJ border.....and I'm there all the time for business.

I just don't see any UCONN presence whatsoever when I'm there. I see a significant Notre Dame and Villanova presence in Monmouth County.....because there are so many Catholic high schools around here.....but I don't see any UCONN flags or decals.

It is by no means a slight. It's just the way it is.

Likewise, for any Rutgers fan to say our influence extends into CT is just wrong...and wishful thinking.

I believe this. On the other hand, I've seen lots of UConn hats and shirts in Los Angeles, San Jose, Chicago, and other places. Those aren't alumni, they are kids who chose to be UConn fans. As a basketball team, UConn is a national brand, like Kentucky, Duke, Kansas, North Carolina. Rutgers is not a national brand in any athletic respect.
 
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I admit it is harder. But we just won a national championship from outside of a P5. The one before that we played Butler in the title game and VCU made the final four. In 2013 Wichita State made it. I think, once you get to the elite 8 or final four, it doesn't matter. It's match-ups and other factors. But you are right that the last school who won a NC and didn't play D1 football was...UConn in 1999, and Villanova before that in 1985.

Don't mistake what I'm saying with "P5". I'm not saying "P5". I'm saying D-1 football. The discussion started with Whaler's comment that we cannot give up on D-1 football.

Conehead summed it up nicely. And you can add UNLV and UConn to what I'm talking about. Conehead was being nice when he went back to 1980, so that GTown and Nova could get 1 each. After 1985, the answer goes to zero...
 
Don't mistake what I'm saying with "P5". I'm not saying "P5". I'm saying D-1 football. The discussion started with Whaler's comment that we cannot give up on D-1 football.

Conehead summed it up nicely. And you can add UNLV and UConn to what I'm talking about. Conehead was being nice when he went back to 1980, so that GTown and Nova could get 1 each. After 1985, the answer goes to zero...


After 1999. UConn was not playing D1 football when we won the first title, we were Yankee conference. But as I said, I don't want to give up D1 football either. But I don't think it would prevent UConn from winning another title if we do, in fact, if we are in the American with no Cinci (and worse, no Memphis), then I think our basketball championship odds would be higher in the Big East, I really do.
 
I live in the suburbs of Philadelphia now....but came most recently from Fair Haven, NJ, which borders Red Bank in Monmouth County. Prior to that, I lived in Ridgewood, NJ in Bergen County.

In college at Rutgers, my girlfriend of 2 years was from North Haven Connecticut. She wasn't the only CT resident we knew. There were others.

I asked her at the time why she chose RU. It was because her best friend in North Haven had an older sister going to Rutgers, who loved it, so she looked into it when the time came, because she wanted to get out of state, but not too far.

There are some examples of residents from both states going to each other's state U. and I would say Connecticut was probably the number 4 feeder school (after NJ, NY, and PA) for students.....but it still doesn't mean it is a significant number.

My entire family still lives in NJ. I only live 40 minutes from the PA/NJ border.....and I'm there all the time for business.

I just don't see any UCONN presence whatsoever when I'm there. I see a significant Notre Dame and Villanova presence in Monmouth County.....because there are so many Catholic high schools around here.....but I don't see any UCONN flags or decals.

It is by no means a slight. It's just the way it is.

Likewise, for any Rutgers fan to say our influence extends into CT is just wrong...and wishful thinking.

You not part of the NJ UConn demographic. The out-of-state UConn demographic is 40-35 and younger (UConn started to gain both athletic and academic national notoriety from 2000 onward). The UConn NJ demo is not the demographic that hangs UConn flags outside of their homes in Ridgewood and throws a UConn sticker on the back of their car, at least not yet. They are still in young NY commuter cities. The dynamic has changed. Several (at least 10) students from my NJ HS went to UConn and have moved back to NJ. I have several friends from UConn in the mid-2000's that were also from NJ. Times have changed. We are certainly not PSU in terms of NJ presence, but we at least slightly move the needle at this point, and the IZod center showing demonstrates that.
 
In my opinion, I think this will happen, at some point, in the next 10-15 years. The NCAA Tourney is a $1B revenue generator...for the NCAA (not the conferences). If the P5 completely split from the NCAA (like they're moving towards anyway), how long will it take for them to figure out that a P5-only tournament that features their programs can generate the same kind of payout without giving it to the NCAA? The mega-fanbases in the P5 would drive ratings through the roof. And while the P5 hoops tourney would lose the "Cinderella appeal" charm of the NCAA Tourney, it wouldn't matter because the P5 has conquered just about every large DMA in the country. CR is all about money, not protecting the charm or true rivalry aspects that used to make college athletics so fun to watch.

The good news for UCONN is that if/when this hoops split happens, and the focus shifts from football to basketball, our P5 value skyrockets. The P5 can surely ink a lucrative TV deal without UCONN. But with UCONN in the mix, not only does the new P5 tourney gain penetration into the huge northeast markets that UCONN helps carry (NYC, Boston, Hartford/New Haven = ratings = $$$), but it also brings more credibility to the P5 tourney because UCONN is a national powerhouse and contender in most seasons. Let's say UNC wins the 2022 P5 championship going 22-8 that season and UCONN, while playing in a mid-major Big East conference, goes 28-2 and wins the NCAA Tourney. Because of UCONN's history and elite status as a basketball blue blood, there would potentially be quite a few pockets of fans in the country that would claim UCONN was better than UNC that year. The P5 would have to acquire as many "blue blood" elite names as possible for their tourney to bring validity to declaring its champion the "best". To gain access to this tournament, UCONN *has* to continue playing football to get a P5 invite.

I understand that UCONN is a basketball school and always will be. That's fine. There is a fit for that inside the P5 (look at Duke, UNC, Kentucky, Syracuse, Indiana, etc) as long as the football programs are competitive every now and again and the basketball programs continue to deliver ratings. I think UCONN can get back to that point - hell, we were at that point in 2011 when we had a BCS football team and 2 hoops national championships.

I also understand that our fanbase, for whatever odd reason, seems to be fragmented between basketball (and even men's vs. women's basketball) and football. I will never in 1,000 years understand the reason for this. But I do realize that the "hoops first" fans probably hold some sort of resentment towards the football program for its struggles and the idea that it is football holding us back from a P5 conference. I just don't, for the life of me, understand why our fans would want to dump football now and go back to playing in a mid-major Big East conference. The payout there is roughly $5M/yr. In other words, not even enough to cover paying our head coach's salaries. So what coach are we going to have to let go because we can't continue to fund that program, long-term? Ollie makes $3M/yr. Geno makes $2M/yr. One, or both, would have to go. And who would we bring in at for $1M/yr to coach in a mid-major conference? Further more, how long would we keep him until a P5 school with 4-10x more money than UCONN can come in and double/triple/quadruple their salary and lure them away? Imagine the ire of every UCONN fan of losing a Kevin Ollie type to Boston College or Syracuse or Rutgers simply because they can pay a salary that we can't even come close to matching. That's what will happen if we moved back to the Big East.

Stay the course. Sports are cyclical. Football will improve. When it does, our P5 value improves instantly. We already have shown we can really help deliver NYC/NJ. Hopefully we will show in 2016 that we can help deliver Boston with a strong fan showing at Gillette against UMASS. We just need football to win a few games and keep doing what we're doing by investing heavily in research. We are still in Year 2 of the 3-5 Year B1G Plan.
I liked this but with one caveat, Syracuse is NOT a basketball school, certainly not like Duke, Kentucky, or Indiana!
 
You not part of the NJ UConn demographic. The out-of-state UConn demographic is 40-35 and younger (UConn started to gain both athletic and academic national notoriety from 2000 onward). The UConn NJ demo is not the demographic that hangs UConn flags outside of their homes in Ridgewood and throws a UConn sticker on the back of their car, at least not yet. They are still in young NY commuter cities. The dynamic has changed. Several (at least 10) students from my NJ HS went to UConn and have moved back to NJ. I have several friends from UConn in the mid-2000's that were also from NJ. Times have changed. We are certainly not PSU in terms of NJ presence, but we at least slightly move the needle at this point, and the IZod center showing demonstrates that.


There was some Jersey in the water at UConn back in the early 90's, too. For example, my chem 101 lab partner from somewhere in Bergen or Passiac County and graduated from an all-girls' Catholic High School. She left a mark on me to the degree that I have already told my two boys, ages 8 and 4, they will never be allowed to date a girl who goes to an all-girls' Catholic school in Jersey :cool:
 
Without any statistical data to back it up, here is the similarity and difference between UConn in NJ and Rutgers in CT. In each state, there are significant numbers of transplants and alumni, but not enough to move the meter in any real respect. However, given that all of UConn's games are shown in at least most of Jersey, and UConn is a national brand and a winner in hoops, it would be silly to think there aren't a significant number of younger consumers who have become UConn fans because you can watch basically every game on TV and they win and send players to the NBA (and WNBA).

So you can tell me all you want about what flags you see, but without data you are not going to get me to believe that some kids in North and Jersey aren't growing up as UConn fans where they can watch all the games of a national competive basketball team.
 
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