Bowlsby: Big 12 Would Look "East not West" | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Bowlsby: Big 12 Would Look "East not West"

Status
Not open for further replies.

Dooley

Done with U-con athletics
Joined
Oct 7, 2012
Messages
9,963
Reaction Score
32,822

Dooley

Done with U-con athletics
Joined
Oct 7, 2012
Messages
9,963
Reaction Score
32,822
I can't wait to hear the grumbling around here to drop football once the new TV deal is announced and we're making less than Buffalo.
 
Joined
Aug 31, 2011
Messages
700
Reaction Score
996
I can't wait to hear the grumbling around here to drop football once the new TV deal is announced and we're making less than Buffalo.

Grumbling or math? You realize that the Big east teams can afford to pay their hoops coaches on par with what P5 schools do. Uconn will not be able to in a couple years because they will be losing millions of dollars by supporting a football program and traveling across the world to play Tulsa, Tuland, SMU and Houston in olympic sports.

Any rational CEO would kill Uconn football within a couple years of Cincy/UCF leaving if no P5 invite were forthcoming
 

RMoore1999

Illegitimi Non Carborundum!
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
1,004
Reaction Score
1,508
Grumbling or math? You realize that the Big east teams can afford to pay their hoops coaches on par with what P5 schools do. Uconn will not be able to in a couple years because they will be losing millions of dollars by supporting a football program and traveling across the world to play Tulsa, Tuland, SMU and Houston in olympic sports.

Any rational CEO would kill Uconn football within a couple years of Cincy/UCF leaving if no P5 invite were forthcoming

Nonsense, Nelson. Nonsense.

How exactly do you expect a rational CEO would be able to determine "forthcoming"? Do you think Delaney, Swofford et. al. email Susan with something like, "Sorry Suzy, put away the hair curler and eye liner...no one will ever be asking you to the prom."??
 

Dooley

Done with U-con athletics
Joined
Oct 7, 2012
Messages
9,963
Reaction Score
32,822
Grumbling or math? You realize that the Big east teams can afford to pay their hoops coaches on par with what P5 schools do. Uconn will not be able to in a couple years because they will be losing millions of dollars by supporting a football program and traveling across the world to play Tulsa, Tuland, SMU and Houston in olympic sports.

Any rational CEO would kill Uconn football within a couple years of Cincy/UCF leaving if no P5 invite were forthcoming

Stay the course. If 2022-23 rolls around and we're no closer to a B1G/ACC invite, then go ahead and put football back in the Yankee conference and apply for basketball membership to the ACC. Until then, the goal should be to make $20+M/yr...not ~$5M/yr.
 

pnow15

Previously pnete
Joined
Oct 15, 2014
Messages
4,662
Reaction Score
2,638
UCF is Florida's largest school. Gives the Big 12 a piece of the wealthy I4 corridor from Orlando to St. Pete.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
8,172
Reaction Score
21,413
NASA?

I went to Cape Canaveral last year.

We were staying in Cocoa Beach for a night before a cruise and took a cab to the space center.

Central Florida has a campus in Cocoa Beach. (I think that's the campus that the strippers in Cocoa Beach pretend to go.)

We are f---ed.

Did you run into Boris the Animal?

Swofford.jpg
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
8,172
Reaction Score
21,413
UCF is Florida's largest school. Gives the Big 12 a piece of the wealthy I4 corridor from Orlando to St. Pete.

Is it really wealthy, like Fairfield County wealthy? I would be curious to see the household income comparisons between the CT DMA and the Orlando and Tampa DMS'a. More households? Definitely. This plays into advertising rates for a network like the BTN or LHN.
 

Dooley

Done with U-con athletics
Joined
Oct 7, 2012
Messages
9,963
Reaction Score
32,822
Is it really wealthy, like Fairfield County wealthy? I would be curious to see the household income comparisons between the CT DMA and the Orlando and Tampa DMS'a. More households? Definitely. This plays into advertising rates for a network like the BTN or LHN.

Real Median Household Income for Tampa Florida
20131 Year Change3 Year Change
US$52,250+0.26%-2.28%
Florida$46,036+0.75%-2.97%
Tampa$45,880+1.85%-1.39%

Real Median Household Income for Orlando Florida
20131 Year Change3 Year Change
US$52,250+0.26%-2.28%
Florida$46,036+0.75%-2.97%
Orlando$46,962+0.59%-5.43%

Real Median Household Income for Hartford Connecticut
20131 Year Change3 Year Change
US$52,250+0.26%-2.28%
Connecticut$67,098-1.69%-1.92%
Hartford$66,356-1.99%-1.58%

Real Median Household Income for Fairfield County Connecticut
20131 Year Change3 Year Change
US$52,250+0.26%-2.28%
Connecticut$67,098-1.69%-1.92%
Fairfield County$81,831-0.6%N/A
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
2,502
Reaction Score
9,597
It still amazes me how many people STILL don't get this fact...and it IS a fact...
I am a football season ticket holder as well as hoops and want both to thrive so I am not coming at this from one side or the other. I have heard and seen this thought for years and I do get it on some level - if you want to be with the "big boys" you need to have football. What will happen to programs like Nova, Gtown, Gonzaga, VCU, Butler, Marquette, Wichita State, St. John's, San Diego State, etc? They aren't going to fold. The football schools will leave the NCAA - is that what the thought is? You will have an NFL/AFL situation where those non football schools will claim to be every bit as good. It's WAY easier to have a very good basketball team. And is there any idea on the timeframe for this to happen (beyond the usual 20 minutes)?

The concerning part of this is that the football schools are determining who gets to be a part of the club no matter how good or bad your athletic dept is. And as we all know this comes down to $$ - there has been talk of TV sets/ratings, politics, geography, etc. Not sure where all of this lands and over what period of time we are talking about.
 

CL82

NCAA Men’s Basketball National Champions - Again!
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
57,171
Reaction Score
209,858
Apparently Big 12's east coast intentions are rapidly becoming an international story.

bbc-look-east.tv50
 

Dooley

Done with U-con athletics
Joined
Oct 7, 2012
Messages
9,963
Reaction Score
32,822
I am a football season ticket holder as well as hoops and want both to thrive so I am not coming at this from one side or the other. I have heard and seen this thought for years and I do get it on some level - if you want to be with the "big boys" you need to have football. What will happen to programs like Nova, Gtown, Gonzaga, VCU, Butler, Marquette, Wichita State, St. John's, San Diego State, etc? They aren't going to fold. The football schools will leave the NCAA - is that what the thought is? You will have an NFL/AFL situation where those non football schools will claim to be every bit as good. It's WAY easier to have a very good basketball team. And is there any idea on the timeframe for this to happen (beyond the usual 20 minutes)?

The concerning part of this is that the football schools are determining who gets to be a part of the club no matter how good or bad your athletic dept is. And as we all know this comes down to $$ - there has been talk of TV sets/ratings, politics, geography, etc. Not sure where all of this lands and over what period of time we are talking about.

In my opinion, I think this will happen, at some point, in the next 10-15 years. The NCAA Tourney is a $1B revenue generator...for the NCAA (not the conferences). If the P5 completely split from the NCAA (like they're moving towards anyway), how long will it take for them to figure out that a P5-only tournament that features their programs can generate the same kind of payout without giving it to the NCAA? The mega-fanbases in the P5 would drive ratings through the roof. And while the P5 hoops tourney would lose the "Cinderella appeal" charm of the NCAA Tourney, it wouldn't matter because the P5 has conquered just about every large DMA in the country. CR is all about money, not protecting the charm or true rivalry aspects that used to make college athletics so fun to watch.

The good news for UCONN is that if/when this hoops split happens, and the focus shifts from football to basketball, our P5 value skyrockets. The P5 can surely ink a lucrative TV deal without UCONN. But with UCONN in the mix, not only does the new P5 tourney gain penetration into the huge northeast markets that UCONN helps carry (NYC, Boston, Hartford/New Haven = ratings = $$$), but it also brings more credibility to the P5 tourney because UCONN is a national powerhouse and contender in most seasons. Let's say UNC wins the 2022 P5 championship going 22-8 that season and UCONN, while playing in a mid-major Big East conference, goes 28-2 and wins the NCAA Tourney. Because of UCONN's history and elite status as a basketball blue blood, there would potentially be quite a few pockets of fans in the country that would claim UCONN was better than UNC that year. The P5 would have to acquire as many "blue blood" elite names as possible for their tourney to bring validity to declaring its champion the "best". To gain access to this tournament, UCONN *has* to continue playing football to get a P5 invite.

I understand that UCONN is a basketball school and always will be. That's fine. There is a fit for that inside the P5 (look at Duke, UNC, Kentucky, Syracuse, Indiana, etc) as long as the football programs are competitive every now and again and the basketball programs continue to deliver ratings. I think UCONN can get back to that point - hell, we were at that point in 2011 when we had a BCS football team and 2 hoops national championships.

I also understand that our fanbase, for whatever odd reason, seems to be fragmented between basketball (and even men's vs. women's basketball) and football. I will never in 1,000 years understand the reason for this. But I do realize that the "hoops first" fans probably hold some sort of resentment towards the football program for its struggles and the idea that it is football holding us back from a P5 conference. I just don't, for the life of me, understand why our fans would want to dump football now and go back to playing in a mid-major Big East conference. The payout there is roughly $5M/yr. In other words, not even enough to cover paying our head coach's salaries. So what coach are we going to have to let go because we can't continue to fund that program, long-term? Ollie makes $3M/yr. Geno makes $2M/yr. One, or both, would have to go. And who would we bring in at for $1M/yr to coach in a mid-major conference? Further more, how long would we keep him until a P5 school with 4-10x more money than UCONN can come in and double/triple/quadruple their salary and lure them away? Imagine the ire of every UCONN fan of losing a Kevin Ollie type to Boston College or Syracuse or Rutgers simply because they can pay a salary that we can't even come close to matching. That's what will happen if we moved back to the Big East.

Stay the course. Sports are cyclical. Football will improve. When it does, our P5 value improves instantly. We already have shown we can really help deliver NYC/NJ. Hopefully we will show in 2016 that we can help deliver Boston with a strong fan showing at Gillette against UMASS. We just need football to win a few games and keep doing what we're doing by investing heavily in research. We are still in Year 2 of the 3-5 Year B1G Plan.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
20,560
Reaction Score
44,700
If you shut down the football program just do everyone a favor and shut down the basketball program at the same time.
amazing how short sighted people are. FB was upgraded to avoid the situation we are in now, and in the case of a split, that we are on the right side of it. It hasn't gone 100% according to plan as of yet, so yeah lets scrap a 200 million investment in the upgrade, and go hat in hand back to the Big East.
 

pnow15

Previously pnete
Joined
Oct 15, 2014
Messages
4,662
Reaction Score
2,638
Is it really wealthy, like Fairfield County wealthy? I would be curious to see the household income comparisons between the CT DMA and the Orlando and Tampa DMS'a. More households? Definitely. This plays into advertising rates for a network like the BTN or LHN.
You have factor total number of people and television sets and the fifty miles of waterfront property owners in Tampa Bay, including guys like Jeter.
 
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
23
Reaction Score
8
In my opinion, I think this will happen, at some point, in the next 10-15 years. The NCAA Tourney is a $1B revenue generator...for the NCAA (not the conferences). If the P5 completely split from the NCAA (like they're moving towards anyway), how long will it take for them to figure out that a P5-only tournament that features their programs can generate the same kind of payout without giving it to the NCAA? The mega-fanbases in the P5 would drive ratings through the roof. And while the P5 hoops tourney would lose the "Cinderella appeal" charm of the NCAA Tourney, it wouldn't matter because the P5 has conquered just about every large DMA in the country. CR is all about money, not protecting the charm or true rivalry aspects that used to make college athletics so fun to watch.

The good news for UCONN is that if/when this hoops split happens, and the focus shifts from football to basketball, our P5 value skyrockets. The P5 can surely ink a lucrative TV deal without UCONN. But with UCONN in the mix, not only does the new P5 tourney gain penetration into the huge northeast markets that UCONN helps carry (NYC, Boston, Hartford/New Haven = ratings = $$$), but it also brings more credibility to the P5 tourney because UCONN is a national powerhouse and contender in most seasons. Let's say UNC wins the 2022 P5 championship going 22-8 that season and UCONN, while playing in a mid-major Big East conference, goes 28-2 and wins the NCAA Tourney. Because of UCONN's history and elite status as a basketball blue blood, there would potentially be quite a few pockets of fans in the country that would claim UCONN was better than UNC that year. The P5 would have to acquire as many "blue blood" elite names as possible for their tourney to bring validity to declaring its champion the "best". To gain access to this tournament, UCONN *has* to continue playing football to get a P5 invite.

I understand that UCONN is a basketball school and always will be. That's fine. There is a fit for that inside the P5 (look at Duke, UNC, Kentucky, Syracuse, Indiana, etc) as long as the football programs are competitive every now and again and the basketball programs continue to deliver ratings. I think UCONN can get back to that point - hell, we were at that point in 2011 when we had a BCS football team and 2 hoops national championships.

I also understand that our fanbase, for whatever odd reason, seems to be fragmented between basketball (and even men's vs. women's basketball) and football. I will never in 1,000 years understand the reason for this. But I do realize that the "hoops first" fans probably hold some sort of resentment towards the football program for its struggles and the idea that it is football holding us back from a P5 conference. I just don't, for the life of me, understand why our fans would want to dump football now and go back to playing in a mid-major Big East conference. The payout there is roughly $5M/yr. In other words, not even enough to cover paying our head coach's salaries. So what coach are we going to have to let go because we can't continue to fund that program, long-term? Ollie makes $3M/yr. Geno makes $2M/yr. One, or both, would have to go. And who would we bring in at for $1M/yr to coach in a mid-major conference? Further more, how long would we keep him until a P5 school with 4-10x more money than UCONN can come in and double/triple/quadruple their salary and lure them away? Imagine the ire of every UCONN fan of losing a Kevin Ollie type to Boston College or Syracuse or Rutgers simply because they can pay a salary that we can't even come close to matching. That's what will happen if we moved back to the Big East.

Stay the course. Sports are cyclical. Football will improve. When it does, our P5 value improves instantly. We already have shown we can really help deliver NYC/NJ. Hopefully we will show in 2016 that we can help deliver Boston with a strong fan showing at Gillette against UMASS. We just need football to win a few games and keep doing what we're doing by investing heavily in research. We are still in Year 2 of the 3-5 Year B1G Plan.

I'm sorry, but UCONN does NOT deliver ANY of the NJ market. NJ couldn't care less about the state U. of Connecticut.
Maybe there are a handful of people in NJ that are alums of UCONN, and they care.....but that is where it ends.

IF you want to say UCONN delivers part of the NYC market....fine...feel free to make that argument. But UCONN does not move the needle at all in NJ. Not outside the tiny number of UCONN alums that live in NJ.
 
Joined
Aug 28, 2011
Messages
1,226
Reaction Score
1,838
All fans must go all in on supporting football. There is no downgrading. Period. The NCAA tournament will eventually become what the NIT is today. And the mid major conferences in basketball will become the equivalent of division 1AA/ the bowl subdivision in football. This is essentially 100% going to happen. The p5 have every financial reason to do this and no reason not to. The quality of play would go up because there would be a higher concentration of talent in the p5.

If basketball fans do not support football, then they are screwing themselves over.
 

Dooley

Done with U-con athletics
Joined
Oct 7, 2012
Messages
9,963
Reaction Score
32,822
I'm sorry, but UCONN does NOT deliver ANY of the NJ market. NJ couldn't care less about the state U. of Connecticut.
Maybe there are a handful of people in NJ that are alums of UCONN, and they care.....but that is where it ends.

IF you want to say UCONN delivers part of the NYC market....fine...feel free to make that argument. But UCONN does not move the needle at all in NJ. Not outside the tiny number of UCONN alums that live in NJ.

I meant the NYC DMA, which includes part of NJ. The same argument that RU fans say when they say things like RU has a presence in CT (the part of the gold coast that falls inside the NYC DMA) when they obviously don't. Obviously, UCONN's alumni around NYC/NJ represented VERY well at the IZOD and I'm guessing that most of those folks live inside the NYC DMA because it was a weeknight game and MUCH easier to get to IZOD for folks who live inside of this map...

DMA-County-Map---regional-G.jpg
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
29,349
Reaction Score
46,669
I am a football season ticket holder as well as hoops and want both to thrive so I am not coming at this from one side or the other. I have heard and seen this thought for years and I do get it on some level - if you want to be with the "big boys" you need to have football. What will happen to programs like Nova, Gtown, Gonzaga, VCU, Butler, Marquette, Wichita State, St. John's, San Diego State, etc? They aren't going to fold. The football schools will leave the NCAA - is that what the thought is? You will have an NFL/AFL situation where those non football schools will claim to be every bit as good. It's WAY easier to have a very good basketball team. And is there any idea on the timeframe for this to happen (beyond the usual 20 minutes)?

The concerning part of this is that the football schools are determining who gets to be a part of the club no matter how good or bad your athletic dept is. And as we all know this comes down to $$ - there has been talk of TV sets/ratings, politics, geography, etc. Not sure where all of this lands and over what period of time we are talking about.

Schools making $30m-$40m a year are going to have a huge advantage grabbing players over schools making $2m-$4m. It will be a night and day difference.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
29,349
Reaction Score
46,669
I'm sorry, but UCONN does NOT deliver ANY of the NJ market. NJ couldn't care less about the state U. of Connecticut.
Maybe there are a handful of people in NJ that are alums of UCONN, and they care.....but that is where it ends.

IF you want to say UCONN delivers part of the NYC market....fine...feel free to make that argument. But UCONN does not move the needle at all in NJ. Not outside the tiny number of UCONN alums that live in NJ.

Interesting. All those UConn alums at the Izod on Thursday night must live in Manhattan.
 

UConnDan97

predicting undefeated seasons since 1983
Joined
Feb 12, 2012
Messages
12,042
Reaction Score
42,560
I have heard and seen this thought for years and I do get it on some level - if you want to be with the "big boys" you need to have football. What will happen to programs like Nova, Gtown, Gonzaga, VCU, Butler, Marquette, Wichita State, St. John's, San Diego State, etc? They aren't going to fold.

No, they are not going to fold. But that's not the point. (and by the way, SDSU has a decent football team, so I won't include them in my analysis).

But what will happen to them is exactly what happened to the likes of Seton Hall, DePaul, UMass (although they are trying like heck to keep their football alive), URI, Xavier, Valpo, Detroit, Dayton, and a few other teams that have managed to have some success over the last 30 years; they will struggle to maintain it.

Furthermore, of all the teams you've named, none of them have won the tourney since Villanova did in 1985; the last team without a D-1 football program to win it all. To put that in perspective, that was prior to Calhoun's arrival on the UConn campus. That's the point. Here at UConn, we have been spoiled a little bit with our uber-success; 4 national titles since '99. But there is no doubt in my mind that we will not be able to maintain the recruits, coaching staff, and support that we currently enjoy without at least some marginal success in football...
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
8,172
Reaction Score
21,413
Thank you, more disparity than I was expecting.

Real Median Household Income for Tampa Florida
20131 Year Change3 Year Change
US$52,250+0.26%-2.28%
Florida$46,036+0.75%-2.97%
Tampa$45,880+1.85%-1.39%

Real Median Household Income for Orlando Florida
20131 Year Change3 Year Change
US$52,250+0.26%-2.28%
Florida$46,036+0.75%-2.97%
Orlando$46,962+0.59%-5.43%

Real Median Household Income for Hartford Connecticut
20131 Year Change3 Year Change
US$52,250+0.26%-2.28%
Connecticut$67,098-1.69%-1.92%
Hartford$66,356-1.99%-1.58%

Real Median Household Income for Fairfield County Connecticut
20131 Year Change3 Year Change
US$52,250+0.26%-2.28%
Connecticut$67,098-1.69%-1.92%
Fairfield County$81,831-0.6%N/A
 

CAHUSKY

UConn Class of 2013
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
94
Reaction Score
12,066
Furthermore, of all the teams you've named, none of them have won the tourney since Villanova did in 1985; the last team without a D-1 football program to win it all. ...
Technically, weren't we the last ones to do it in 1999?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Online statistics

Members online
220
Guests online
2,078
Total visitors
2,298

Forum statistics

Threads
157,257
Messages
4,090,069
Members
9,983
Latest member
Darkbloom


Top Bottom