Bouknight - What’s best for him? | Page 4 | The Boneyard

Bouknight - What’s best for him?

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Kolumbo said:
You embarrass only yourself. Try reading, if it's in your toolbox, post #55.
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This is what you want me to read? This makes your first post sound even worse...
Kolumbo said:
That is not at all what I think and I'm sorry that is how you interpreted my statement. Ben Gordan was one of our top performing guards ever and won a national championship. There was never any sign he was suffering the way he was. Bouk doesn't snow nearly the confidence. Make of it what you will.
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auror said:
The NBA has structure. This isn't 1994. It's not even 2006. The NBA improved the transition process immensely. Ray Allen himself usually speaks at the transition program.

His team will invest in him. The owners these days are pretty much all savvy business people who know they need to invest in their assets. Personal trainers, team nutritionists, and usually personal chefs. Countless strength and training staff. Business and brand training. Social media training. NBA teams are now also required to have mental health staff.

He won't be any significantly less lonely or more ready for the NBA travel schedule if he leaves at age 21 vs. age 20. But he will be graded more harshly and will have to meet much higher standards and benchmarks by NBA front offices. He will have to absolutely dominate college basketball next season. Could he? Sure. But he's already passed those benchmarks this season. There's 0 reason to risk it.

Additionally, the money for the 30th pick has doubled since 2006. Bouk will make a minimum of $8.2 million and more likely in the $13-18 million (pick #15 or #8) for his first 4 years. The money is literally too good to pass up.
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It’s funny to me that all the guys who think James is a can’t miss this year think it’s to risky to wait a year and go when he is better prepared.
 
BigErnMcCracken said:
It’s in your interest that he comes back. Just be honest for once.

Defining statement of work with the parenthetical made me laugh.
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I love it when people do a parenthetical for initials and then never use the initialism again
 
Chief00 said:
It’s funny to me that all the guys who think James is a can’t miss this year think it’s to risky to wait a year and go when he is better prepared.
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Pluses of leaving if you’re a lottery pick: millions of dollars, superior coaching and S&C, the ability to devote all your time to your craft.

Minuses: a creepy old guy on a message board that refers to himself in the third person will be sad.
 
huskysupporter said:
The best decision for maximizing career earnings for Bouk is to leave for the NBA. That’s it. It’s really that simple.
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Its not about your first contract, its about your second. The more prepared for your first contract the more you will maximize your second.
 
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Lefty2one said:
Why are you just throwing out names? Where's Jeremy Lamb right now? Where's Rudy Gay?

Daniels nor Hamilton was projected 1st round picks, let alone consenus lottery picks. Neither was in the same stratosphere as Bouk athletically.
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Makes no difference....IMO Bouk is not ready and while he has some decent talent, his deficiencies were completely exposed at the end of the season.
 
TheRealKBuks said:
Its not about your first contract, its about your second. The more prepared for your first contract the more you will maximize your second.
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Exactly right and that’s what the guys who have been through the process have the experience and wisdom to know.
 
Blueballer said:
Come on. From a basketball standpoint he should stay and get stronger/better. But from a financial standpoint he should leave. Need I say more? 99.9% of humans would take the $$$ now.
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What does this even mean? There is no basketball standpoint v financial standpoint. It’s all one standpoint. This is their livelihood.
 
rollskies said:
Maybe it would be better for his career earnings if he stayed, but the thing is, there is no way to know that, so you have to take the 8ish million dollars now and hope it’s for the best. You just can’t risk coming back and getting injured again when the money is available now, no matter where he gets drafted. I agree that in a perfect world, he would benefit from another year of development, but unfortunately that’s just not how it works anymore.
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I totally agree with your assessment.

Take the money and run. Whether he is a lottery pick or a late first rounder, the money is substantial. I would not gamble on the risk of injury.

Life is uncertain and season-ending injuries happen.
 
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TheRealKBuks said:
Ben McLemore (probably the most concerning comparison)
Xavier Henry
Noah Vonleh
Jahlil Okafor (already mentioned)
Brandon Knight
Josh Selby
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Career earnings:
Ben McLemore - 28 million
Noah Vonleh - 15 million
Jahlil Okafor - 19 million
Brandon Knight - 79 million
Thabeet - 12 million
Josh Selby wasn't a projected first round pick so not a relevant comparison.

They and their families are all set for life.

Hedonic adaptation sets in once you get to a certain level of financial security anyways.
 
alphasigko said:
DeAndre Daniels and Daniel Hamilton.... Where are they now? Did either ever play a single game in the league? Dre has played in Australia since he got cut, and Hamilton is now in Turkey....

Yes, they are getting paid, but they probably would have done better if they each had stayed longer. I do not see Bouk doing much better if he leaves now.
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If either of those two players stayed one more year they’d be exactly where they are now with one less year’s salary in their bank accounts.
 
auror said:
Career earnings:
Ben McLemore - 28 million
Noah Vonleh - 15 million
Jahlil Okafor - 19 million
Brandon Knight - 79 million
Thabeet - 12 million
Josh Selby wasn't a projected first round pick so not a relevant comparison.

They and their families are all set for life.
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That's not the argument, the argument is MAXIMIZING career earnings
 
TheRealKBuks said:
Ben McLemore (probably the most concerning comparison)
Xavier Henry
Noah Vonleh
Jahlil Okafor (already mentioned)
Brandon Knight
Josh Selby
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McLemore got four seasons with his original team, starting a majority of the games. He has been on three teams and is still in the league. I'd say he's gotten time to develop and plenty of second chances and SAC was very patient with him. He just isn't very good. He's still made $28m in his career. The horror. FWIW I thought he was horribly overrated at Kansas and I think Bouk is a much better prospect.

Vonleh has played for seven teams. That's a second chance or two. He stinks, yet teams keep giving him chances.

Okafor has been on four teams, aka second chances. He just got screwed by being born 20 years too late. He could have stayed at Duke for 4 years and it wouldn't have changed that.

Brandon Knight made $80m before injuries derailed his career.

Josh Selby sucked and everyone knew it. He was a 2nd rounder for a reason. Xavier Henry also simply sucked. Staying in college wouldn't have changed that.


It all boils down to this...

1) You suck and everyone is going to find out eventually. At least you've fooled some teams for now. You might as well try to make $10m before the cat is out of the bag. That's a nice head start before heading overseas.

2) You were born in the wrong era. No amount of time in college would have changed that.

3) Don't draft Kansas guards.

There are guys who cost themselves money by returning. Jared Sullinger was a Top 5 pick, returned for his sophomore year, got fat and hurt his back and fell to the 20s.

Big Baby Davis was a media darling with lottery buzz after LSU's FF run but returned and fell to the 2nd round.

Perry Jones III had a cult following and Top 10 buzz. He went late first. Who knows where he would have gone if he left after his freshman year. Turns out he sucked, didn't last in the league.
 
He can do what he wants, but it’s a major risk to turn down being a lottery pick and like $10 million to come back to play for free when he just nearly had a season ending injury this past season.

Going back to college does not guarantee anything for him. He’s a first round pick at worst and very very likely lottery pick. I’m glad Hurley said what he did, he’s about to be a multi millionaire in his 20s.
 
Let's be fair. WE are not objective or looking out for what's best for him. He could come back and have a major injury. As for Donyell, he did say he was lonely and missed the hanging with teammates in his 1st year. I remember that well. Whatever Bouk decides...God bless him.
 
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Lefty2one said:
McLemore got four seasons with his original team, starting a majority of the games. He has been on three teams and is still in the league. I'd say he's gotten time to develop and plenty of second chances and SAC was very patient with him. He just isn't very good. He's still made $28m in his career. The horror. FWIW I thought he was horribly overrated at Kansas and I think Bouk is a much better prospect.

Vonleh has played for seven teams. That's a second chance or two. He stinks, yet teams keep giving him chances.

Okafor has been on four teams, aka second chances. He just got screwed by being born 20 years too late. He could have stayed at Duke for 4 years and it wouldn't have changed that.

Brandon Knight made $80m before injuries derailed his career.

Josh Selby sucked and everyone knew it. He was a 2nd rounder for a reason. Xavier Henry also simply sucked. Staying in college wouldn't have changed that.


It all boils down to this...

1) You suck and everyone is going to find out eventually. At least you've fooled some teams for now. You might as well try to make $10m before the cat is out of the bag. That's a nice head start before heading overseas.

2) You were born in the wrong era. No amount of time in college would have changed that.

3) Don't draft Kansas guards.

There are guys who cost themselves money by returning. Jared Sullinger was a Top 5 pick, returned for his sophomore year, got fat and hurt his back and fell to the 20s.

Big Baby Davis was a media darling with lottery buzz after LSU's FF run but returned and fell to the 2nd round.

Perry Jones III had a cult following and Top 10 buzz. He went late first. Who knows where he would have gone if he left after his freshman year. Turns out he sucked, didn't last in the league.
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This is an awesome rebuttal, appreciate your post.
 
TheRealKBuks said:
That's not the argument, the argument is MAXIMIZING career earnings
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The "it's all about the 2nd contract" argument fails because the first contract is MORE than enough for financial security, and that this has changed in the last 15 years due to rising salary cap. Getting a first round contract is now enough by itself. Literally nobody needs $200 million to be happy or help make other people happy.

Perfect is the enemy of good. The marginal chance of improvement in earning ceiling is offset by a massive downside risk. ESPECIALLY for a player like Bouk who has had injury concerns.
 
auror said:
The "it's all about the 2nd contract" argument fails because the first contract is MORE than enough for financial security, and that this has changed in the last 15 years due to rising salary cap. Getting a first round contract is now enough by itself.

Perfect is the enemy of good. The marginal chance of improvement in earning ceiling is offset by a massive downside risk. ESPECIALLY for a player like Bouk who has had injury concerns.
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The saying is good is the enemy of great.
 
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TheRealKBuks said:
That's not the argument, the argument is MAXIMIZING career earnings
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So each of those guys would have magically not been a bust if they returned to college? I've got news for you: most of them just suck.

They all got a ton of chances. If the best coaches/training/etc in the world couldn't save them why would a college coach? It's such a bizarre stance that many people have that college coaches are better at development than pros. It's not 1993. The Thunder have an 8-man development staff. They're not game coaches, they don't sit on the bench. They exist solely to develop their young players. 24/7, without school getting in the way.

I also don't understand how playing another season of college basketball--which is hideous and sloppy and slow, the polar opposite of the NBA game--is going to help these guys.

Having Bouknight face triple teams and a packed paint and playing at a glacial pace will, if anything, harm his development.

He can play 18 mpg and learn the NBA game and live in the weight room improving his body as a rookie, all while making $2m. I'm sorry, on no planet does UConn offer him a better developmental option, even financial reasons aside.
 
Lefty2one said:
So each of those guys would have magically not been a bust if they returned to college? I've got news for you: most of them just suck.

They all got a ton of chances. If the best coaches/training/etc in the world couldn't save them why would a college coach? It's such a bizarre stance that many people have that college coaches are better at development than pros. It's not 1993. The Thunder have an 8-man development staff. They're not game coaches, they don't sit on the bench. They exist solely to develop their young players. 24/7, without school getting in the way.

I also don't understand how playing another season of college basketball--which is hideous and sloppy and slow, the polar opposite of the NBA game--is going to help these guys.
Having Bouknight face triple teams and a packed paint and playing at a glacial pace will, if anything, harm his development.

He can play 18 mpg and learn the NBA game and live in the weight room improving his body as a rookie, all while making $2m. I'm sorry, on no planet does UConn offer him a better development option, even financial reasons aside.
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The college lifestyle is more structured. Unless you are lucky enough to have an older vet who is willing to show you how to be a pro you are left to your own devices to figure it out (young and rich can be a dangerous and self destructive combination). That's where an additional year of college comes into play.

Michael Jordan arrived on a team known as the Chicago Traveling Cocaine Circus. If he had left his freshman year and found himself on the bulls we may have never heard of him. The maturity he gained under Dean Smith certainly helped prepare him for that adversity.

Another year in college you get to develop as a man and learn how to handle yourself for another year before the expectation to earn hits.
 
auror said:
That's... not my saying? I used a different one? If you want to offer an alternative viewpoint, go for it. But when discussing personal wisdom, give me Aristotle or Voltaire over John D. Rockefeller lol.
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I'd love to discuss Voltaire but Tom will lock this thread quickly after.
 
superjohn said:
The guy threatening lawsuits, throwing multiple hissy fits over "likes" who then quit the board to go over to TOS only to tuck tail and come back here destroying our mojo thinks I had a strange take on Kolumbo's terrible posts in your terrible thread.
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So should we have a forum called Chief's Beefs?
 
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