Bouknight - What’s best for him?

[krinklecut]

Come on. From a basketball standpoint he should stay and get stronger/better. But from a financial standpoint he should leave. Need I say more? 99.9% of humans would take the $$$ now.

What does this even mean? There is no basketball standpoint v financial standpoint. It’s all one standpoint. This is their livelihood.

 

[Improviser]

Maybe it would be better for his career earnings if he stayed, but the thing is, there is no way to know that, so you have to take the 8ish million dollars now and hope it’s for the best. You just can’t risk coming back and getting injured again when the money is available now, no matter where he gets drafted. I agree that in a perfect world, he would benefit from another year of development, but unfortunately that’s just not how it works anymore.

I totally agree with your assessment.

Take the money and run. Whether he is a lottery pick or a late first rounder, the money is substantial. I would not gamble on the risk of injury.

Life is uncertain and season-ending injuries happen.

 

[auror]

Ben McLemore (probably the most concerning comparison)
Xavier Henry
Noah Vonleh
Jahlil Okafor (already mentioned)
Brandon Knight
Josh Selby

Career earnings:
Ben McLemore - 28 million
Noah Vonleh - 15 million
Jahlil Okafor - 19 million
Brandon Knight - 79 million
Thabeet - 12 million
Josh Selby wasn't a projected first round pick so not a relevant comparison.

They and their families are all set for life.

Hedonic adaptation sets in once you get to a certain level of financial security anyways.

 

[krinklecut]

DeAndre Daniels and Daniel Hamilton.... Where are they now? Did either ever play a single game in the league? Dre has played in Australia since he got cut, and Hamilton is now in Turkey....

Yes, they are getting paid, but they probably would have done better if they each had stayed longer. I do not see Bouk doing much better if he leaves now.

If either of those two players stayed one more year they’d be exactly where they are now with one less year’s salary in their bank accounts.

 

[TheRealKBuks]

Career earnings:
Ben McLemore - 28 million
Noah Vonleh - 15 million
Jahlil Okafor - 19 million
Brandon Knight - 79 million
Thabeet - 12 million
Josh Selby wasn't a projected first round pick so not a relevant comparison.

They and their families are all set for life.

That's not the argument, the argument is MAXIMIZING career earnings

 

[Lefty2one]

Ben McLemore (probably the most concerning comparison)
Xavier Henry
Noah Vonleh
Jahlil Okafor (already mentioned)
Brandon Knight
Josh Selby

McLemore got four seasons with his original team, starting a majority of the games. He has been on three teams and is still in the league. I'd say he's gotten time to develop and plenty of second chances and SAC was very patient with him. He just isn't very good. He's still made $28m in his career. The horror. FWIW I thought he was horribly overrated at Kansas and I think Bouk is a much better prospect.

Vonleh has played for seven teams. That's a second chance or two. He stinks, yet teams keep giving him chances.

Okafor has been on four teams, aka second chances. He just got screwed by being born 20 years too late. He could have stayed at Duke for 4 years and it wouldn't have changed that.

Brandon Knight made $80m before injuries derailed his career.

Josh Selby sucked and everyone knew it. He was a 2nd rounder for a reason. Xavier Henry also simply sucked. Staying in college wouldn't have changed that.


It all boils down to this...

1) You suck and everyone is going to find out eventually. At least you've fooled some teams for now. You might as well try to make $10m before the cat is out of the bag. That's a nice head start before heading overseas.

2) You were born in the wrong era. No amount of time in college would have changed that.

3) Don't draft Kansas guards.

There are guys who cost themselves money by returning. Jared Sullinger was a Top 5 pick, returned for his sophomore year, got fat and hurt his back and fell to the 20s.

Big Baby Davis was a media darling with lottery buzz after LSU's FF run but returned and fell to the 2nd round.

Perry Jones III had a cult following and Top 10 buzz. He went late first. Who knows where he would have gone if he left after his freshman year. Turns out he sucked, didn't last in the league.

 

[Fatroony5]

He can do what he wants, but it’s a major risk to turn down being a lottery pick and like $10 million to come back to play for free when he just nearly had a season ending injury this past season.

Going back to college does not guarantee anything for him. He’s a first round pick at worst and very very likely lottery pick. I’m glad Hurley said what he did, he’s about to be a multi millionaire in his 20s.

 

[Madmannsucks]

Let's be fair. WE are not objective or looking out for what's best for him. He could come back and have a major injury. As for Donyell, he did say he was lonely and missed the hanging with teammates in his 1st year. I remember that well. Whatever Bouk decides...God bless him.

 

[superjohn]

You had a really strange take on @Kolumbo post.

The guy threatening lawsuits, throwing multiple hissy fits over "likes" who then quit the board to go over to TOS only to tuck tail and come back here destroying our mojo thinks I had a strange take on Kolumbo's terrible posts in your terrible thread.

 

[TheRealKBuks]

McLemore got four seasons with his original team, starting a majority of the games. He has been on three teams and is still in the league. I'd say he's gotten time to develop and plenty of second chances and SAC was very patient with him. He just isn't very good. He's still made $28m in his career. The horror. FWIW I thought he was horribly overrated at Kansas and I think Bouk is a much better prospect.

Vonleh has played for seven teams. That's a second chance or two. He stinks, yet teams keep giving him chances.

Okafor has been on four teams, aka second chances. He just got screwed by being born 20 years too late. He could have stayed at Duke for 4 years and it wouldn't have changed that.

Brandon Knight made $80m before injuries derailed his career.

Josh Selby sucked and everyone knew it. He was a 2nd rounder for a reason. Xavier Henry also simply sucked. Staying in college wouldn't have changed that.


It all boils down to this...

1) You suck and everyone is going to find out eventually. At least you've fooled some teams for now. You might as well try to make $10m before the cat is out of the bag. That's a nice head start before heading overseas.

2) You were born in the wrong era. No amount of time in college would have changed that.

3) Don't draft Kansas guards.

There are guys who cost themselves money by returning. Jared Sullinger was a Top 5 pick, returned for his sophomore year, got fat and hurt his back and fell to the 20s.

Big Baby Davis was a media darling with lottery buzz after LSU's FF run but returned and fell to the 2nd round.

Perry Jones III had a cult following and Top 10 buzz. He went late first. Who knows where he would have gone if he left after his freshman year. Turns out he sucked, didn't last in the league.

This is an awesome rebuttal, appreciate your post.

 

[auror]

That's not the argument, the argument is MAXIMIZING career earnings

The "it's all about the 2nd contract" argument fails because the first contract is MORE than enough for financial security, and that this has changed in the last 15 years due to rising salary cap. Getting a first round contract is now enough by itself. Literally nobody needs $200 million to be happy or help make other people happy.

Perfect is the enemy of good. The marginal chance of improvement in earning ceiling is offset by a massive downside risk. ESPECIALLY for a player like Bouk who has had injury concerns.

 

[TheRealKBuks]

The "it's all about the 2nd contract" argument fails because the first contract is MORE than enough for financial security, and that this has changed in the last 15 years due to rising salary cap. Getting a first round contract is now enough by itself.

Perfect is the enemy of good. The marginal chance of improvement in earning ceiling is offset by a massive downside risk. ESPECIALLY for a player like Bouk who has had injury concerns.

The saying is good is the enemy of great.

 

[auror]

The saying is good is the enemy of great.

Perfect is the enemy of good - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[TheRealKBuks]

Perfect is the enemy of good - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Excellence Or Mediocrity: Good Is The Enemy Of Great | Dr. Ivan Misner®

ivanmisner.com

Re: John D Rockefellar quote

 

[Lefty2one]

That's not the argument, the argument is MAXIMIZING career earnings

So each of those guys would have magically not been a bust if they returned to college? I've got news for you: most of them just suck.

They all got a ton of chances. If the best coaches/training/etc in the world couldn't save them why would a college coach? It's such a bizarre stance that many people have that college coaches are better at development than pros. It's not 1993. The Thunder have an 8-man development staff. They're not game coaches, they don't sit on the bench. They exist solely to develop their young players. 24/7, without school getting in the way.

I also don't understand how playing another season of college basketball--which is hideous and sloppy and slow, the polar opposite of the NBA game--is going to help these guys.

Having Bouknight face triple teams and a packed paint and playing at a glacial pace will, if anything, harm his development.

He can play 18 mpg and learn the NBA game and live in the weight room improving his body as a rookie, all while making $2m. I'm sorry, on no planet does UConn offer him a better developmental option, even financial reasons aside.

 

[auror]

Excellence Or Mediocrity: Good Is The Enemy Of Great | Dr. Ivan Misner®

ivanmisner.com

Re: John D Rockefellar quote

That's... not my saying? I used a different one? If you want to offer an alternative viewpoint, go for it. But when discussing personal wisdom, give me Aristotle or Voltaire over John D. Rockefeller lol.

 

[TheRealKBuks]

So each of those guys would have magically not been a bust if they returned to college? I've got news for you: most of them just suck.

They all got a ton of chances. If the best coaches/training/etc in the world couldn't save them why would a college coach? It's such a bizarre stance that many people have that college coaches are better at development than pros. It's not 1993. The Thunder have an 8-man development staff. They're not game coaches, they don't sit on the bench. They exist solely to develop their young players. 24/7, without school getting in the way.

I also don't understand how playing another season of college basketball--which is hideous and sloppy and slow, the polar opposite of the NBA game--is going to help these guys.
Having Bouknight face triple teams and a packed paint and playing at a glacial pace will, if anything, harm his development.

He can play 18 mpg and learn the NBA game and live in the weight room improving his body as a rookie, all while making $2m. I'm sorry, on no planet does UConn offer him a better development option, even financial reasons aside.

The college lifestyle is more structured. Unless you are lucky enough to have an older vet who is willing to show you how to be a pro you are left to your own devices to figure it out (young and rich can be a dangerous and self destructive combination). That's where an additional year of college comes into play.

Michael Jordan arrived on a team known as the Chicago Traveling Cocaine Circus. If he had left his freshman year and found himself on the bulls we may have never heard of him. The maturity he gained under Dean Smith certainly helped prepare him for that adversity.

Another year in college you get to develop as a man and learn how to handle yourself for another year before the expectation to earn hits.

 

[TheRealKBuks]

That's... not my saying? I used a different one? If you want to offer an alternative viewpoint, go for it. But when discussing personal wisdom, give me Aristotle or Voltaire over John D. Rockefeller lol.

I'd love to discuss Voltaire but Tom will lock this thread quickly after.

 

[Madmannsucks]

The guy threatening lawsuits, throwing multiple hissy fits over "likes" who then quit the board to go over to TOS only to tuck tail and come back here destroying our mojo thinks I had a strange take on Kolumbo's terrible posts in your terrible thread.

So should we have a forum called Chief's Beefs?

 

[Kolumbo]

You had a really strange take on @Kolumbo post.

That's just @superjohn being superjohn. He doesn't like me much so rather than debate the subject matter, he makes it personal. Carry on.

 

[auror]

The college lifestyle is more structured. Unless you are lucky enough to have an older vet who is willing to show you how to be a pro you are left to your own devices to figure it out (young and rich can be a dangerous and self destructive combination). That's where an additional year of college comes into play.

Michael Jordan arrived on a team known as the Chicago Traveling Cocaine Circus. If he had left his freshman year and found himself on the bulls we may have never heard of him. The maturity he gained under Dean Smith certainly helped prepare him for that adversity.

Another year in college you get to develop as a man and learn how to handle yourself for another year before the expectation to earn hits.

Your viewpoint on the league is not current.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

The college lifestyle is more structured. Unless you are lucky enough to have an older vet who is willing to show you how to be a pro you are left to your own devices to figure it out (young and rich can be a dangerous and self destructive combination). That's where an additional year of college comes into play.

Michael Jordan arrived on a team known as the Chicago Traveling Cocaine Circus. If he had left his freshman year and found himself on the bulls we may have never heard of him. The maturity he gained under Dean Smith certainly helped prepare him for that adversity.

Another year in college you get to develop as a man and learn how to handle yourself for another year before the expectation to earn hits.

So your premise is that the NBA of today has the same level of structure as the NBA when Michael Jordan was a rookie.... your premise is very, very flawed.

 

[bmayuc]

Can't believe you guys are still going with this one - This is not a debate anymore. If someone hands you $10m you do not wait a year, take on injury or performance risks, for some maybe kinda sorta I can "mature" or something.

Cash the check, put the 20-30 hours a week you would have had to be a student toward taking jump shots and lifting weights.

This is easy - everyone making the "stay" argument is not looking out for the kids best interest either because they are a selfish fanboi or not a very good decision-maker. Its 2021 - the best way to develop is to get in the league and start cashing checks. Period.

 

[TheRealKBuks]

Your viewpoint on the league is not current.

So your premise is that the NBA of today has the same level of structure as the NBA when Michael Jordan was a rookie.... your premise is very, very flawed.

My premise is that there will always be adversity and that maturity and development is the best way to overcome it.

 

[bmayuc]

The college lifestyle is more structured. Unless you are lucky enough to have an older vet who is willing to show you how to be a pro you are left to your own devices to figure it out (young and rich can be a dangerous and self destructive combination). That's where an additional year of college comes into play.

Michael Jordan arrived on a team known as the Chicago Traveling Cocaine Circus. If he had left his freshman year and found himself on the bulls we may have never heard of him. The maturity he gained under Dean Smith certainly helped prepare him for that adversity.

Another year in college you get to develop as a man and learn how to handle yourself for another year before the expectation to earn hits.

If your understanding of the professionalism of the NBA stopped developing in 1984 like @TheRealKBuks then he is right that Bouknight should stay at UConn.

Unfortunately, I, a middle-aged father of 2, was born in 1985 and can tell you that the NBA has an enormous amount of professionalism and entire staffs dedicated to mentoring/training/developing/adulting players these days.

Man, update your clocks or stop embarrassing yourself and get off this thread