Borges: UConn looking to fill two spots

[intlzncster]

Forget Carlton going down. If Carlton picks up 2 fouls before the 12 minute tv timeout, we are screwed. Its hard to predict next year without seeing how the incoming freshmen look. However, if they don't provide any impact, next years team will be worse than last years team.

Totally.

It's also difficult to project because we don't know where that scholarship is going yet.

I'm in the camp of just get the best players, worry about fit or if they can play after.

But looking solely at results on the floor next year, they really need a backup center and an experienced PG. Probably another backup post combo, but now we're dreaming.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Your scenario is banking on everything going right though. When's the last time that's happened at UCONN? I mean, I guess we're due, but...

If Carlton goes down, we're screwed. If Gilbert goes down, we're screwed. If Akok, goes down, we're in the same position as last year at the 4. Counting on Diarra for anything at this point is a big bet. Until proven otherwise, Polley is a jump shooter. If he improves his toughness, motor, rebounding, and post D, then you could count on him as a 4; I do think that's where he's got to play in college, but you can't count on it yet. Whaley is...I don't know what Whaley is at this point.

You gotta get serious development out of certain players, most of whom were three star because of limited ceiling. Some might do it, others won't. The problem with a lot of our guys isn't just talent, it's size and physicality, or lack there of.

The freshman have to all come in and be ready to contribute. How often does that happen?

A lot has to go right. I'm hoping for 18+ wins. If we aren't above .500, I'll be disappointed.

If Kemba went down the 2011 team was screwed. If Baz went down the 2014 team was screwed. Any team that loses its three best players is screwed.

Totally agree on size and physicality. Incoming guys are an upgrade in height at least. Expecting some more muscle on Josh and Tyler. Both got stronger between freshman and sophomore seasons. Sid needs to get stronger and work on his shot. But at least we won't try to make him play as a 4 anymore. Polley needs to do what you said, but those deficiencies are very different in a 12-15 minutes a game guy vs 27 mpg. Vital has major deficiencies too, and the fact that he played 30 minutes a game exacerbates them. He won't be getting 30 minutes next year.

If you can't expect your staff to get incremental year to year improvements from players then fire them. You cannot win in college basketball without that, unless you bring in a class like Duke had last year. Most good high major teams are relying on freshmen to contribute along with 3* guys that developed. I think the three freshmen we have so far will all play a lot, and they will have some early bumps, and be solid by the end of the year.

Last year's Tennessee team starting 5 was all seniors and juniors who were 3* recruits. They were guys a lot like Vital, Carlton and Polley who played a lot early and kept getting better. Tennessee 2016 Basketball Commits Look at Houston. Rob Gray 3*. Armoni Brooks 3*. Corey Davis - 2* or unranked.

All that being said, if Diarra really can't play we need to free up that roster spot. If he can play, fine. He's got talent and some of the physicality we need.

 

[intlzncster]

If Kemba went down the 2011 team was screwed. If Baz went down the 2014 team was screwed. Any team that loses its three best players is screwed

FTR I wasn't talking about all at once. Gilbert's injury history is a much higher risk than both Kemba/Bazz. I think it's realistic to have some concern there. Hence need for an experienced PG.

Carlton I probably shouldn't even have said 'goes down'. Just the 2 foul thing (which will happen a fair bit). Whaley playing the five is frightening to me.

3 star guys can all get better sure, some can become very good. But the odds are they won't. For every successful guy you can name, I could find 50 others who don't rate.

It has to be the right ones. Do we have the right ones? idk. But we don't have the most athletic/built ones, that's for sure.

 

[UCfor3]

If Kemba went down the 2011 team was screwed. If Baz went down the 2014 team was screwed. Any team that loses its three best players is screwed.

Totally agree on size and physicality. Incoming guys are an upgrade in height at least. Expecting some more muscle on Josh and Tyler. Both got stronger between freshman and sophomore seasons. Sid needs to get stronger and work on his shot. But at least we won't try to make him play as a 4 anymore. Polley needs to do what you said, but those deficiencies are very different in a 12-15 minutes a game guy vs 27 mpg. Vital has major deficiencies too, and the fact that he played 30 minutes a game exacerbates them. He won't be getting 30 minutes next year.

If you can't expect your staff to get incremental year to year improvements from players then fire them. You cannot win in college basketball without that, unless you bring in a class like Duke had last year. Most good high major teams are relying on freshmen to contribute along with 3* guys that developed. I think the three freshmen we have so far will all play a lot, and they will have some early bumps, and be solid by the end of the year.

Last year's Tennessee team starting 5 was all seniors and juniors who were 3* recruits. They were guys a lot like Vital, Carlton and Polley who played a lot early and kept getting better. Tennessee 2016 Basketball Commits Look at Houston. Rob Gray 3*. Armoni Brooks 3*. Corey Davis - 2* or unranked.

All that being said, if Diarra really can't play we need to free up that roster spot. If he can play, fine. He's got talent and some of the physicality we need.

Baz and Kemba didn't have the injury history of Gilbert so the risk was less. If Baz or Kemba got hurt we obviously don't win a national championship or come close. If a couple guys next year get hurt or get in foul trouble, we lose by 25 at Tulsa. Injuries have been brutal for us lately so I understand the paranoia. As far as development goes, not all 3 star players are created equal. Talent has to be there to be developed. Some guys can be developed and improve but some guys just have a lower ceiling.

 

[HuskyHawk]

FTR I wasn't talking about all at once. Gilbert's injury history is a much higher risk than both Kemba/Bazz. I think it's realistic to have some concern there. Hence need for an experienced PG.

Carlton I probably shouldn't even have said 'goes down'. Just the 2 foul thing (which will happen a fair bit). Whaley playing the five is frightening to me.

3 star guys can all get better sure, some can become very good. But the odds are they won't. For every successful guy you can name, I could find 50 others who don't rate.

It has to be the right ones. Do we have the right ones? idk. But we don't have the most athletic/built ones, that's for sure.

I think we are on the same page, except maybe what to do about it. My view is, damn, if things go reasonably well and Gilbert stays healthy, we are a backup center away from being a darned good team. So get a backup center, not whoever the highest talent guy is regardless of position. Next season is plenty promising. Don't discard it. We've had a horrific run of bad luck. We are overdue for some good luck.

Carlton is already one of those 3* guys that becomes a major contributor. I think he's going to be a freaking force, especially with a 6'10 Akok on the floor next to him. They double Josh and Akok is going to become a dunk machine. Polley becomes an experienced 15 minute a game guy who shoots 40% from 3 at 6'9". Every team would like that on the bench.

If Whaley was just 25 pounds heavier he'd be a perfectly serviceable backup 5. He has the shotblocking and is a leaper and solid rebounder. He just can't hold position against the big physical guys we face.

My main worry is SF. We need Sid to make a jump and become a shooter, Bouk to be great as a freshman or Adams to make an enormous leap. Precious solves that hole completely.

 

[Jbirdp5]

Your definition of quality and mine is very different. Two years is a large enough sample set to be able to define quality. Here's a game you can play. Pick a top 20 program nationally. Any one, including Houston and Cincy. Now ask yourself how many minutes would any of the three you mentioned play on that team. Within in seconds, you should come up with the answer. If not, the answer is 0. That is not quality.

The teams you mentioned in Houston and cinn are built off of lower level recruits, so I don’t see how ur argument makes much sense. At this point say diarra and Whaley both leave you aren’t filling them with the top 75 players you mentioned. So who would you Be giving those scholarships to

 

[intlzncster]

My main worry is SF. We need Sid to make a jump and become a shooter, Bouk to be great as a freshman or Adams to make an enormous leap. Precious solves that hole completely.

Well we do differ there. I'm not really worried about the SF spot. There's a bunch of questions at SF, but there's also a bunch of answers. Sid/Bouk/Vital and Polley in a pinch. You can mix and match based on matchups, who's hot, or what have you. SF by committee if you will. We should have enough shooting on the court to mitigate Sid's lack of shot somewhat, so I think he'll get plenty of minutes there.

And Precious ain't happening so I don't even think about that. But it would be nice.

 

[UCfor3]

I think we are on the same page, except maybe what to do about it. My view is, damn, if things go reasonably well and Gilbert stays healthy, we are a backup center away from being a darned good team. So get a backup center, not whoever the highest talent guy is regardless of position. Next season is plenty promising. Don't discard it. We've had a horrific run of bad luck. We are overdue for some good luck.

Carlton is already one of those 3* guys that becomes a major contributor. I think he's going to be a freaking force, especially with a 6'10 Akok on the floor next to him. They double Josh and Akok is going to become a dunk machine. Polley becomes an experienced 15 minute a game guy who shoots 40% from 3 at 6'9". Every team would like that on the bench.

If Whaley was just 25 pounds heavier he'd be a perfectly serviceable backup 5. He has the shotblocking and is a leaper and solid rebounder. He just can't hold position against the big physical guys we face.

My main worry is SF. We need Sid to make a jump and become a shooter, Bouk to be great as a freshman or Adams to make an enormous leap. Precious solves that hole completely.

I agree about SF. Unless Sid improves his shooting considerably, I expect to see a lot of Bouknight at that position.

 

[intlzncster]

The teams you mentioned in Houston and cinn are built off of lower level recruits, so I don’t see how ur argument makes much sense. At this point say diarra and Whaley both leave you aren’t filling them with the top 75 players you mentioned. So who would you Be giving those scholarships to

The idea is that those slots can be given to certain transfers who have high upside (Ntambwe). And the other open scholarship goes to guys at positions of need who won't take up multi year scholarships. There's plenty of transfers out there with a lot of value, but they have to sit one.

 

[Jbirdp5]

The idea is that those slots can be given to certain transfers who have high upside (Ntambwe). And the other open scholarship goes to guys at positions of need who won't take up multi year scholarships. There's plenty of transfers out there with a lot of value, but they have to sit one.

Getting sit ones are fine, but now your not Helping next year anyway. The only immediate play guys that I’ve seen or heard about on here are not without flaws of their own and either great or terrible depending about who’s commenting.
My point is unless the guys are lights out as ntambwe May be, might be better off waiting another year

 

[HuskyHawk]

The idea is that those slots can be given to certain transfers who have high upside (Ntambwe). And the other open scholarship goes to guys at positions of need who won't take up multi year scholarships. There's plenty of transfers out there with a lot of value, but they have to sit one.

If we have two, I’m ok with Ntambwe (although I think we are overrating him). I’d be happy with Yawke 2.0 if we can find a serviceable grad transfer. That would be ideal.

Ultimately I trust the staff. As long as they don’t pull a Randy Edsall and sacrifice the season I’m good. So if Sal is telling Hurley that Whaley will get to 215-220, fine, he’s your backup 5. If we have a shot at quality freshmen center for 2020 we don’t want that scholarship going to a project on a multi-year basis. I think we’re all agreed on that. But I also don’t want it going to a random “best player available”. Part of our current problems were because KO didn’t bring in players that fit together as a team.

 

[the Q]

If we have two, I’m ok with Ntambwe (although I think we are overrating him). I’d be happy with Yawke 2.0 if we can find a serviceable grad transfer. That would be ideal.

Ultimately I trust the staff. As long as they don’t pull a Randy Edsall and sacrifice the season I’m good. So if Sal is telling Hurley that Whaley will get to 215-220, fine, he’s your backup 5. If we have a shot at quality freshmen center for 2020 we don’t want that scholarship going to a project on a multi-year basis. I think we’re all agreed on that. But I also don’t want it going to a random “best player available”. Part of our current problems were because KO didn’t bring in players that fit together as a team.

I’d prefer a yawke this year than committing 3 years to a risky juco.

Carlton is our guy.

And getting a Lt pg is slim with AG and an incoming 4 star.

So 2 grad transfers wouldn’t be the worst thing.

 

[joober jones]

If Onourah could play professionallly, I'm sure Whaley has a shot somewhere.

 

[MrSheldrake]

I hope you are not in the minority. We need an upgrade in talent. Point blank. Our frontcourt and our bench is simply atrocious and not of high major quality.

Do you think anyone in our frontcourt or on our bench might eventually play in the NBA?

 

[Towney007]

He is wrong. The team will be much better next year. His perspective is the worst case scenario. I suppose that is possible, but it isn't likely. Wichita State just went 22-14 and made the final four of the NIT with a lot less talent than we have next year. Players get better with a good coaching staff. The jump Carlton made was obvious. I think Polley will get much better. Adams will get much better. Sid will be much better. Whaley? Maybe. The freshmen will be raw, but they are good players.

We lose Jalen, Smith and Cobb. We gain two scoring guards and a dynamic shot blocking power forward who can score. Plus at least one other player.

But what matters most is a roster that makes sense. Last year we had an undersized PG, plus another smaller PG who was an ok shooter, and attack the rim scorer playing SG, plus another undersized SG, plus another undersized combo guard. We had one PF, who can shoot 3s but wasn't a good rebounder. We had a freshman SF who couldn't shoot. A decent center, who became a real offensive force late and started blocking shots. An injured backup center, an injured PF, and injuries to both lead scoring/PGs.

The roster didn't make any sense. Now we bring in a 6'5" shooting guard. A 6'3" scoring PG. A 6'10" PF. Our skinny 6'7" wing won't be at PF anymore. Our decent but not great PF becomes a backup. Our undersized SG won't be playing SF anymore. All you need to believe is that one of Adams, Bouk or Sid can emerge as a legit SF/Wing and this team is dramatically better than last year. The pieces all fit now.

I think you're being a little optimistic. You're boiling this down to:

Polley will get better!
Adams will get better!
Sid will get better!
WHALEY will get better!

Sure - I mean if everyone we have returning gets better and all our freshman play above their heads year one - sure we'll be a lot better. I just think that's being too optimistic. Although I think overall, we'll be better - especially by year's end.

I think the freshmen will help, but this idea they're going to come in and instantly solve the massive scoring issues we're going to have right off the bat is expecting too much I think. Love both guys, they'll contribute - but they're not going to be good enough to carry that load early on. I've seen a lot of Akok and while the practice reports have been good, I'm telling you - be prepared to lower your expectations a bit. He's going to be really, really, really, really, really good - but when people say he's raw - trust me... he's raw.

We still have depth and front court issues, we don't have a dedicated scorer although it's safe to ASSUME we can probably figure that out - but until we do it's still a question mark... I mean we've got a lot of the same issues as last year except we're just more talented. I think people expecting a 25 win season are setting themselves up for a manic depressive episode in January. I really hope i'm wrong, but we did this a year ago, did it this year - so now we're going to play pretend again this year?

What I'd agree with you whole heartedly on though is the roster construction is much better. And i'd say that's the most important thing. This team wins 22 games next year and recruits well, i'll be over the moon. 2020-2021 will be a ton of fun.

 

[Towney007]

There isn't a single player on this roster who could lace Kemba's shoes.

Or Bazz's for that matter.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I think you're being a little optimistic. You're boiling this down to:

Polley will get better!
Adams will get better!
Sid will get better!
WHALEY will get better!

Sure - I mean if everyone we have returning gets better and all our freshman play above their heads year one - sure we'll be a lot better. I just think that's being too optimistic. Although I think overall, we'll be better - especially by year's end.

I think the freshmen will help, but this idea they're going to come in and instantly solve the massive scoring issues we're going to have right off the bat is expecting too much I think. Love both guys, they'll contribute - but they're not going to be good enough to carry that load early on. I've seen a lot of Akok and while the practice reports have been good, I'm telling you - be prepared to lower your expectations a bit. He's going to be really, really, really, really, really good - but when people say he's raw - trust me... he's raw.

We still have depth and front court issues, we don't have a dedicated scorer although it's safe to ASSUME we can probably figure that out - but until we do it's still a question mark... I mean we've got a lot of the same issues as last year except we're just more talented. I think people expecting a 25 win season are setting themselves up for a manic depressive episode in January. I really hope i'm wrong, but we did this a year ago, did it this year - so now we're going to play pretend again this year?

What I'd agree with you whole heartedly on though is the roster construction is much better. And i'd say that's the most important thing. This team wins 22 games next year and recruits well, i'll be over the moon. 2020-2021 will be a ton of fun.

I have 100% confidence that all four will get better. 100%. No doubt in my mind whatsoever. How much better? Remains to be seen. Polley did improve from freshman year. Adams was better late in the year. Whaley didn’t play until those final games, but was effective then. Sid is an enigma. So much athleticism and such a disappointing skill level. He’s the most important of those four guys by far.

I do think the roster construction matters a lot. I’m hopeful that the extra six months working with Sal and the staff means Akok will be less raw than he would have been straight from high school. Much could go wrong with this team, or right. And that last scholarship or two is critical.

 

[husky429]

I have 100% confidence that all four will get better. 100%. No doubt in my mind whatsoever. How much better? Remains to be seen. Polley did improve from freshman year. Adams was better late in the year. Whaley didn’t play until those final games, but was effective then. Sid is an enigma. So much athleticism and such a disappointing skill level. He’s the most important of those four guys by far.

I do think the roster construction matters a lot. I’m hopeful that the extra six months working with Sal and the staff means Akok will be less raw than he would have been straight from high school. Much could go wrong with this team, or right. And that last scholarship or two is critical.

I think it will be interesting to see if the staff tries to develop ALL of Sid's skills, or narrow in on a role for him. It may depend on how the roster shakes out in the next month.

He needs to work on passing, dribbling, and shooting desperately. Defense is pretty good, and the team stuff he needs isn't really going to develop in individual summer workouts.

Does he dial in on shooting and become a straight 3 and D guy? Or does the staff try to make him more of a guard and develop his handles/passing as well?

My guess is the staff zeroes in on the shooting, but expects him to be working on the handle passing in team pickup and on his own.

 

[jibsey]

We are currently not better than last year if you factor in inexperience of incoming players. We lost our best player. Now if Hurley gets 2 more players with some real talent maybe we’re better than last year. NIT is a reach next year as we sit right now.

 

[UofCT]

We are currently not better than last year if you factor in inexperience of incoming players. We lost our best player. Now if Hurley gets 2 more players with some real talent maybe we’re better than last year. NIT is a reach next year as we sit right now.

Talent > experience

 

[HuskyHawk]

Talent > experience

Sort of. Great talent without experience is fine. Duke, Kentucky etc. A lot of experience without great talent is also a winning formula. Tennessee, Houston, most past Wichita State teams. Experienced players with great talent are rare in college.

What gives me hope is that our least talented players have a lot of experience (except Adams). They will all be juniors or seniors. Gilbert has talent and experience. Sid and the incoming freshman have talent, not much experience.

 

[ToolzieFan]

It obviously takes talent to win, but there’s also a decent correlation between continuity and team success. If a program isn’t getting NBA-ready freshmen, keeping a core group together for a few years is a solid path to success.
https://kenpom.com/blog/measuring-continuity/

 

[ToolzieFan]

 

[RayIsTheGOAT]

View attachment 42487

Interesting. But an r value of 0.24 or 0.34 is not that significant.

 

[the Q]

Interesting. But an r value of 0.24 or 0.34 is not that significant.

I’m curios what factor(s) would be higher.