Borges: UConn looking to fill two spots

[tzznandrew]

I just don't think you can look at things like that and he's not wrong. Who's replacing Adams' scoring? Can Gilbert stay healthy? How much can we realistically count on from the three freshmen? Asking for ultimatums on record improvements is kind of missing the point - *at this point*.

My wish list is basically:

-Another top 20 recruiting class
-Stopping the sideways midseason slides and see the team look better at the end of the year than at the beginning
-Stop getting blown out by good teams
-Beat all of/close to all of the teams we should beat
-See improvement from key returners - notably Carlton, Gilbert, Wilson, Vital.

If I see all of that and we're 17-18; I'm good. If I see all that and we're 20-12, I'm good. While i'd love to get all this and 25 wins or something, it's just not something that based on what i've seen so far - is something i'm going to be demanding. It's a rebuild, not a reload. Rebuild of the system, the talent, the program, the culture, all of it.

Year after that, though? When we've got two top 20 recruiting classes and some of our B-level talent is headed into Senior year territory? Well, that's when we should be thinking about things like wins and losses.

Yup. This is right.

I'd obviously prefer that a few players who aren't top flight talent leave to kickstart the rebuild. But the rebuild is as much cultural as anything, and you lose who you are and (more importantly) what you are selling if you actively take scholarships from kids.

If this were Hurley's first rebuild, I'd be worried. But this guy has done this twice already. And he's never had talent like Gilbert/Wilson/Akok/Gaffney/Bouknight. I want to see improvement next year, but they ain't winning a title next year, so if Hurley thinks keeping a few guys who won't play very much is good for the team is right, I'm willing to roll with him.

A losing season next year is a problem for me; but really, for me, 2020-21 is the year we should be a pretty darn good team.

 

[joober jones]

I respect Hurley's approach here, I just disagree with it wholeheartedly and think it's extremely detrimental to the program.

Based on all those years with Dove, I think it's been in place for a while.

 

[Jbirdp5]

So many people in here are basically saying Hurley is wrong for not running kids out town. It’s not his style so why are so many people still surprised/upset about it.

 

[UC1995]

If I were those kids I wouldn’t leave. They aren’t going pro so why leave a great university with the friends that they have made and go to a MEACC school to maybe start with a bunch of other kids who they have no connection to. Unless their egos are involved the best memories will be made here.

Yup. This is right.

I'd obviously prefer that a few players who aren't top flight talent leave to kickstart the rebuild. But the rebuild is as much cultural as anything, and you lose who you are and (more importantly) what you are selling if you actively take scholarships from kids.

If this were Hurley's first rebuild, I'd be worried. But this guy has done this twice already. And he's never had talent like Gilbert/Wilson/Akok/Gaffney/Bouknight. I want to see improvement next year, but they ain't winning a title next year, so if Hurley thinks keeping a few guys who won't play very much is good for the team is right, I'm willing to roll with him.

A losing season next year is a problem for me; but really, for me, 2020-21 is the year we should be a pretty darn good team.

 

[UofCT]

Talked to my former roommate who is a student manager. He says doubtful anyone is leaving. Not sure where that second scholarship would come from. Only thing I can think of, which I mentioned before, is if Mamadou is stepping away due to injury. But that’s just me thinking, I don’t have any info on that.

Student managers know less than Boneyarder insiders.

 

[the Q]

If I were those kids I wouldn’t leave. They aren’t going pro so why leave a great university with the friends that they have made and go to a MEACC school to maybe start with a bunch of other kids who they have no connection to. Unless their egos are involved the best memories will be made here.

They could play overseas after college. It would help to have some nice tape and scouting opportunities for that.

 

[JimHurley]

Student managers know less than Boneyarder insiders.

You are wrong. They see them everyday and participate in shootarounds weekly. They know where guys stand

 

[UofCT]

You are wrong. They see them everyday and participate in shootarounds weekly. They know where guys stand

I was a manager you were not. If you don’t believe me send me PM and I’ll provide proof.

 

[JimHurley]

I was a manager you were not. If you don’t believe me send me PM and I’ll provide proof.

I’m not looking for an argument. I’m telling you my old roommate’s experience as a manager. He’s close with the guys, sees them everyday and they hang out outside of basketball activities. I think he’d know if anyone was considering leaving.

 

[UofCT]

I’m not looking for an argument. I’m telling you my old roommate’s experience as a manager. He’s close with the guys, sees them everyday and they hang out outside of basketball activities. I think he’d know if anyone was considering leaving.

I remember the day Marcus Johnson transferred, everyone was shocked, especially JA and CA, they almost couldn’t practice they were so upset. My point being players, managers, even assistant coaches may not know if a guy was planning on leaving until he leaves. That was my experience but things could be different.

 

[djct1999]

This is a great example of The Boneyard in action. State a position, and then when you decide it may be wrong double and triple down by piling on meaningless stuff on top of it rather than acknowledge its weakness.

HD deciding to enroll at Kentucky showed you that Putnam Science is in it for themselves? I don't claim we owe any one school anything, but that statement is just absurd. Does Steve Enoch going to Louisville prove that UConn is in it for itself? How do Putnam's intentions and desires become clear by an 18 year old who goes there exercising his free will?

What’s a great example of the boneyard is responding to a post without understanding the context of that post. Vintage boneyard. Nicely done.

 

[kemba]

Student managers know less than Boneyarder insiders.

During my time at UConn, the amount of made up and completely contradictory information i heard from managers, practice players, and walkons was incredible. I almost felt they had weekly meetings to discuss how they are going to best mess with the student body

 

[Danzz]

In that case I don't agree or respect his approach
If UConn has kids who simply can't compete at the D1 level because of talent - those kids have to be helped to go somewhere else, need to drop the sport at UConn and become a student or play as a walk-on and pay for school. A scholarship is something of value given for a return value. If there is no return value it's a freebie.
Now in case of career ending injury there is room for being gracious but there are kids on the team earning scholarships now who may not be this level D1 ability.

If a player was recruited who didn't work out talent wise it is on the coaching staff that recruited him. The player shouldn't have to pay the price.

 

[UCDaveD]

I remember the day Marcus Johnson transferred, everyone was shocked, especially JA and CA, they almost couldn’t practice they were so upset. My point being players, managers, even assistant coaches may not know if a guy was planning on leaving until he leaves. That was my experience but things could be different.

Remember when they made you let Ater Majok borrow your car?

 

[huskyharry]

Since UConn self-imposed the scholarship reduction can they just say "eph it, we're taking it back"?

They certainly should! It was a BS move to support the administration’s court actions against KO. Nothing was done that merited a scholarship reduction!

 

[ctchamps]

During my time at UConn, the amount of made up and completely contradictory information i heard from managers, practice players, and walkons was incredible. I almost felt they had weekly meetings to discuss how they are going to best mess with the student body

Haven't been to one place in my life, school, business or communities, where information was completely accurate.

Remember the telephone game where a phrase was started by someone, passed along to several people. The last person rarely repeated it accurately. That's a simple phrase. These are complex issues.

Even when people attempt to report things accurately it's difficult to retain all the information that is verbally related. But most people don't report things accurately. People filter information constantly. Even when many people say the same thing it's no proof of accuracy.

This forum falls victim to that process the same way we witness it in other aspects of society. Remember WMD? Remember Dyson was a really bad player because he never won a post season game?

 

[HuskyHawk]

I just don't think you can look at things like that and he's not wrong. Who's replacing Adams' scoring? Can Gilbert stay healthy? How much can we realistically count on from the three freshmen? Asking for ultimatums on record improvements is kind of missing the point - *at this point*.

My wish list is basically:

-Another top 20 recruiting class
-Stopping the sideways midseason slides and see the team look better at the end of the year than at the beginning
-Stop getting blown out by good teams
-Beat all of/close to all of the teams we should beat
-See improvement from key returners - notably Carlton, Gilbert, Wilson, Vital.

If I see all of that and we're 17-18; I'm good. If I see all that and we're 20-12, I'm good. While i'd love to get all this and 25 wins or something, it's just not something that based on what i've seen so far - is something i'm going to be demanding. It's a rebuild, not a reload. Rebuild of the system, the talent, the program, the culture, all of it.

Year after that, though? When we've got two top 20 recruiting classes and some of our B-level talent is headed into Senior year territory? Well, that's when we should be thinking about things like wins and losses.

He is wrong. The team will be much better next year. His perspective is the worst case scenario. I suppose that is possible, but it isn't likely. Wichita State just went 22-14 and made the final four of the NIT with a lot less talent than we have next year. Players get better with a good coaching staff. The jump Carlton made was obvious. I think Polley will get much better. Adams will get much better. Sid will be much better. Whaley? Maybe. The freshmen will be raw, but they are good players.

We lose Jalen, Smith and Cobb. We gain two scoring guards and a dynamic shot blocking power forward who can score. Plus at least one other player.

But what matters most is a roster that makes sense. Last year we had an undersized PG, plus another smaller PG who was an ok shooter, and attack the rim scorer playing SG, plus another undersized SG, plus another undersized combo guard. We had one PF, who can shoot 3s but wasn't a good rebounder. We had a freshman SF who couldn't shoot. A decent center, who became a real offensive force late and started blocking shots. An injured backup center, an injured PF, and injuries to both lead scoring/PGs.

The roster didn't make any sense. Now we bring in a 6'5" shooting guard. A 6'3" scoring PG. A 6'10" PF. Our skinny 6'7" wing won't be at PF anymore. Our decent but not great PF becomes a backup. Our undersized SG won't be playing SF anymore. All you need to believe is that one of Adams, Bouk or Sid can emerge as a legit SF/Wing and this team is dramatically better than last year. The pieces all fit now.

 

[HuskyHawk]

This analogy is silly. Every current player will benefit immensely if UConn becomes more relevant. The most obvious way to become more relevant is to replace players who are incapable of contributing with kids that can.

Fwiw, this isn't exclusive to UConn, It happens at every top program.

Who is “incapable of contributing”? I don’t think there is one guy on the roster who fits that description when healthy. Most of the challenges we’ve had have resulted from using guys who should be bench players, as starters. Vital is an obvious example, as is Polley. Both are now likely bench players. While Wilson wasn’t impressive last year, I think it’s utterly wrong to say he isn’t a high major talent. Carlton was most improved player, and he’s the one 3* who is likely to start next year, unless senior Vital also starts.

The bench is now better too, except at center. I think Diarra, Polley and Whaley are quality bench players. Unfortunately they all play the same position. The main benefit of having one of them walk is that we could shift that scholarship to a position of need. C and SF primarily.

 

[Fairfield_1st]

Most of us got excited when Hurley was hired due to his NE ties, coaching skills and ability to turn around failing programs. He does that by not running the kids off and honoring the commitment the student athlete made to the school and that the school made to the student athlete. This is his multiple time proven method for getting it done. That's all I need to know and I support the method. Those of you advocating the pulling of schollies are asking him to change his way.

 

[djct1999]

Who is “incapable of contributing”? I don’t think there is one guy on the roster who fits that description when healthy. Most of the challenges we’ve had have resulted from using guys who should be bench players, as starters. Vital is an obvious example, as is Polley. Both are now likely bench players. While Wilson wasn’t impressive last year, I think it’s utterly wrong to say he isn’t a high major talent. Carlton was most improved player, and he’s the one 3* who is likely to start next year, unless senior Vital also starts.

The bench is now better too, except at center. I think Diarra, Polley and Whaley are quality bench players. Unfortunately they all play the same position. The main benefit of having one of them walk is that we could shift that scholarship to a position of need. C and SF primarily.

Your definition of quality and mine is very different. Two years is a large enough sample set to be able to define quality. Here's a game you can play. Pick a top 20 program nationally. Any one, including Houston and Cincy. Now ask yourself how many minutes would any of the three you mentioned play on that team. Within in seconds, you should come up with the answer. If not, the answer is 0. That is not quality.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Your definition of quality and mine is very different. Two years is a large enough sample set to be able to define quality. Here's a game you can play. Pick a top 20 program nationally. Any one, including Houston and Cincy. Now ask yourself how many minutes would any of the three you mentioned play on that team. Within in seconds, you should come up with the answer. If not, the answer is 0. That is not quality.

You're delusional. Guys worse than those guys are playing at all those teams. Not starting, but playing. Diarra, when healthy would play a lot.

 

[djct1999]

Most of us got excited when Hurley was hired due to his NE ties, coaching skills and ability to turn around failing programs. He does that by not running the kids off and honoring the commitment the student athlete made to the school and that the school made to the student athlete. This is his multiple time proven method for getting it done. That's all I need to know and I support the method. Those of you advocating the pulling of schollies are asking him to change his way.

First off, rebuilding Wagner and rebuilding UConn are two entirely different beasts. Part of rebuilding UConn is to bring back the old UConn "swag" and again making it a destination program. In order to succeed, you need to bring in top 75 talent and win important games. Hurley is a stand up guy and I don't think many believe he will actually pull a scholarship but rest assured he wants as many available as possible. He has even mentioned a few times that this roster isn't UConn quality. I often laugh at the hypocrisy of this board. Many posters criticized Hurley all season and questioned if he was the right hire because of some of the results. Now, most of you don't want him to pull scholarships from players that clearly aren't high major quality. The latter is fine. We can wait it out. But don't criticize the man next year, when this roster goes 16-14, loses in the second round of the AAC, and doesn't make the tournament. Not even the best coach can win with 6 quality guys, assuming the three incoming freshman add value from day 1.

 

[djct1999]

You're delusional. Guys worse than those guys are playing at all those teams. Not starting, but playing. Diarra, when healthy would play a lot.

yeah, right. Name a school where he would play.

 

[intlzncster]

Who is “incapable of contributing”? I don’t think there is one guy on the roster who fits that description when healthy. Most of the challenges we’ve had have resulted from using guys who should be bench players, as starters. Vital is an obvious example, as is Polley. Both are now likely bench players. While Wilson wasn’t impressive last year, I think it’s utterly wrong to say he isn’t a high major talent. Carlton was most improved player, and he’s the one 3* who is likely to start next year, unless senior Vital also starts.

The bench is now better too, except at center. I think Diarra, Polley and Whaley are quality bench players. Unfortunately they all play the same position. The main benefit of having one of them walk is that we could shift that scholarship to a position of need. C and SF primarily.

Your scenario is banking on everything going right though. When's the last time that's happened at UCONN? I mean, I guess we're due, but...

If Carlton goes down, we're screwed. If Gilbert goes down, we're screwed. If Akok, goes down, we're in the same position as last year at the 4. Counting on Diarra for anything at this point is a big bet. Until proven otherwise, Polley is a jump shooter. If he improves his toughness, motor, rebounding, and post D, then you could count on him as a 4; I do think that's where he's got to play in college, but you can't count on it yet. Whaley is...I don't know what Whaley is at this point.

You gotta get serious development out of certain players, most of whom were three star because of limited ceiling. Some might do it, others won't. The problem with a lot of our guys isn't just talent, it's size and physicality, or lack there of.

The freshman have to all come in and be ready to contribute. How often does that happen?

A lot has to go right. I'm hoping for 18+ wins. If we aren't above .500, I'll be disappointed.

 

[djct1999]

Your scenario is banking on everything going right though. When's the last time that's happened at UCONN? I mean, I guess we're due, but...

If Carlton goes down, we're screwed. If Gilbert goes down, we're screwed. If Akok, goes down, we're in the same position as last year at the 4. Counting on Diarra for anything at this point is a big bet. Until proven otherwise, Polley is a jump shooter. If he improves his toughness, motor, rebounding, and post D, then you could count on him as a 4; I do think that's where he's got to play in college, but you can't count on it yet. Whaley is...I don't know what Whaley is at this point.

You gotta get serious development out of certain players, most of whom were three star because of limited ceiling. Some might do it, others won't. The problem with a lot of our guys isn't just talent, it's size and physicality, or lack there of.

A lot has to go right. I'm hoping for 18+ wins. If we aren't above .500, I'll be disappointed.

Forget Carlton going down. If Carlton picks up 2 fouls before the 12 minute tv timeout, we are screwed. Its hard to predict next year without seeing how the incoming freshmen look. However, if they don't provide any impact, next years team will be worse than last years team.